Name: 北約祕書長：歐洲「全力支持」美國對伊朗採取行動 | BBC News (Europe 'absolutely supportive' of US action in Iran, says Nato secretary general | BBC News)
Uploaded: 2026-03-02T21:34:44.000Z
Duration: 9 min 4 s

I think we have Mark Rutter, the Secretary General of NATO, standing by.

我想我們有北大西洋公約組織的祕書長 Mark Rutter 在線上。

He was listening to some of that press conference.

他剛才聽了一些記者會的內容。

Secretary General, it's good to have you with us on the program.

祕書長，很高興您能來我們的節目。

Let us pick up with the fast moving events of the last 48, 72 hours.

我們來聊聊過去 48 到 72 小時快速發展的事件。

There is a disconnect between European capitals in the United States on military engagement in Iran.

歐洲各國首都與美國在伊朗的軍事介入上存在分歧。

How does that complicate NATO's position?

這會讓北約的立場變得複雜嗎？

Well, I would, to the contrary, say that Europeans are really stepping up.

嗯，我反而會說，歐洲人其實正在積極行動。

When you look at the comments by Chancellor Mertz yesterday, who is now flying out to Washington for meetings tomorrow in the White House, absolutely supportive of what the Americans are doing, taking out the nuclear and the ballistic capability in Iran, which is a threat to us in Europe, threat to Israel, to the region.

看看梅爾茨總理昨天的評論，他現在正飛往華盛頓，明天要在白宮開會，他絕對支持美國的行動，摧毀伊朗的核武和彈道飛彈能力，這對我們歐洲、對以色列、對整個區域都是威脅。

Keir Starmer yesterday committing to, to this basing request by the Americans providing therefore a key defensive, responsive response to the threat when it comes to what the UK can do.

Keir Starmer 昨天承諾，回應美國的基地請求，是以在英國能做什麼方面，提供了關鍵的防禦性、回應性的威脅應對。

So I think it's really clear that Europe is stepping up and that's very important.

所以我覺得很清楚，歐洲正在積極行動，這點非常重要。

Did his delay in making UK bases available complicate the operation?

他延遲提供英國基地，這會讓這次行動變得複雜嗎？

What I understand is that there were some legal things which had to be worked through.

我瞭解的是，有些法律上的問題需要處理。

這就是為什麼花了幾天的時間。

But I mean, this is early stages of this campaign.

但我的意思是，這是這次行動的初期階段。

It will take days, potentially weeks, before it is finished, finalized.

可能需要幾天，甚至幾週的時間才能完成、定案。

And in the meantime, the UK has now requested positively to this base request, providing this basically a defensive response to the threat.

同時，英國現在已經正面回應了這項基地請求，這基本上是對威脅提供了防禦性的回應。

Now, were you told ahead of time that this was about to happen?

那麼，這件事即將發生，你們有事先被告知嗎？

I have many conversations, always with your members.

I never go into details with whom, crucially, for NATO Secretary General to know if there's going to be military action in Iran.

我從來不會透露跟誰談，而且對北約祕書長來說，知道是否會有軍事介入伊朗非常關鍵。

And that's exactly why I never discuss those things in public because my conversations with the Americans are discreet.

這就是為什麼我從不在公開場合討論這些事情，因為我跟美國人的談話都是保密的。

But I can assure you that we make sure that we coordinate very closely.

但我可以向你保證，我們會確保我們協調得非常密切。

Should it have been done with the approval of the U.S. congress?

這應該要經過美國國會的準許嗎？

Well, this is this whole discussion about legality and I leave that to people who are much smarter than I am.

嗯，這整個討論都關於合法性，這部分我留給比我聰明很多的人去處理。

But I can tell you I spoke yesterday with many European leaders.

但我可以告訴你，我昨天跟許多歐洲領導人談過。

They are all extremely glad with this action, with this campaign, because we know that Iran is a threat today.

他們都對這次行動、這次戰役感到非常高興，因為我們知道伊朗現在是一個威脅。

It is not only oppressive at home, it is also aggressive when it comes to Europe, to Israel, to the whole region.

它不僅在國內壓迫人民，在歐洲、以色列以及整個地區也表現得咄咄逼人。

It is a terrorist regime and clearly, therefore a threat to London, to Hamburg, to my own hometown, the Hague.

這是一個恐怖政權，顯然對倫敦、漢堡，以及我自己的家鄉海牙都構成了威脅。

When it comes to terrorism it is a threat to Ukraine because they are one of the key enablers of Russia's war effort.

在恐怖主義方面，它對烏克蘭構成了威脅，因為他們是俄羅斯戰爭努力的主要推動者之一。

So what I am seeing all over Europe is widespread support for what the US Is doing.

所以我看到的是，歐洲各地都廣泛支持美國的行動。

Well, yes, it is being welcomed that the ayatollah has been removed and they are not pointing the finger at Donald Trump in terms of legality.

嗯，是的，大家樂見阿亞圖拉被罷免，而且他們並沒有因為合法性問題而指責唐納·川普。

So you say the European position is changing.

所以你說歐洲的立場正在改變。

Do you imagine then that NATO forces will soon be involved, offensive?

你認為北大西洋公約組織的部隊很快就會介入，進行攻擊嗎？

What I'm saying is that European position has always been, since 1980, for 45 years now, 46 years, that Iran is a threat, that this regime is a threat, not to Iranian people, but

我說的是，自1980年以來，也就是現在的45年、46年，歐洲的立場一直都是，伊朗是一個威脅，這個政權是一個威脅，不是對伊朗人民，而是

So are you saying NATO forces will, NATO as an alliance, will be involved in Iran at some point?

所以你的意思是，北大西洋公約組織的部隊，以聯盟形式，會在某個時候介入伊朗嗎？

No, this, this is clearly a campaign led by the Americans and the Israelis.

不，這，這顯然是美國和以色列主導的行動。

But what we are seeing now is that when it comes to NATO allies, but

但我們現在看到的是，當涉及到北約盟友，以及該地區的朋友時，他們正遭受伊朗無差別攻擊，他們攻擊杜拜、巴林、阿曼和其他海灣國家，攻擊無辜平民。

also friends in the region, which are now under indiscriminate attacks by Iran, they are hitting out at Dubai, at Bahrain, at Oman and other Gulf nations, hitting innocent civilians.

所以你現在看到的是，盟友們， wherever they can enable the US Campaign，與以色列一起，他們正在這麼做。

So what you're now seeing is that allies, wherever they can enable the US Campaign, together with Israel, they are doing that.

阿拉伯海灣國家目前的氣氛如何？

What is the current mood of the Arab Gulf countries?

你認為，鑑於過去72小時他們遭受的重創，他們會加入打擊行動嗎？

And do you imagine, given the pummeling they've taken in the last 72 hours, that they are going to be joining strike operations?

因為Dan Kane剛告訴我們，他們是以進攻能力參與的。

Because we've just been told by Dan Kane that they're involved in an offensive capacity.

這是否意味著他們的空軍可能很快就會在伊朗上空執行任務？

Does that mean that their air forces might soon be in operation over Iran?

我們來看看接下來幾小時和幾天事態如何發展。

Let's see how this develops over the next hours and days.

But what I know from the Gulf nations is, of course, they totally condemn the fact that they have come under this indiscriminate attacks by Iran, which is basically lashing out now at its neighbors in the region, totally without any military reason, because they are hitting out at hotels and innocent civilians all over the region.

不過，從波灣國家那邊我得知的是，他們當然完全譴責伊朗遭受這些無差別攻擊的事實，伊朗現在基本上就是在攻擊該區域的鄰國，完全沒有任何軍事理由，因為他們攻擊了該區域的飯店和無辜平民。

And this tells you something about the character of this regime and what they are willing and what they are up to.

這也說明瞭這個政權的本質，以及他們願意做什麼、他們在做什麼。

And therefore this extremely important that also myself and I saw Ursula von der Lay coming out, European Commission president on this, also coordinating closely with partners in the region that really stay shoulder to shoulder here.

是以，這非常重要，我自己以及我看到歐洲委員會主席 Ursula von der Leyen 也對此發表看法，並與該區域的夥伴密切協調，在這裡真正地團結一致。

There's been another drone fired at the base today.

今天又有無人機襲擊了該基地。

What are you doing as Secretary General to step up the defense of those bases and particularly from the threat of shahed drones?

身為祕書長，您將如何加強這些基地的防禦，特別是抵禦 Shahed 無人機的威脅？

I can assure you that when it comes to NATO territory of Course, Cyprus is not a NATO, but

我可以向您保證，就北約領土而言，當然，賽普勒斯不是北約成員，但

Our senior commanders are on this constantly.

我們的高級指揮官們一直在關注這件事。

I'm, as always, extremely impressed by our senior military people.

我一如既往地對我們的高級軍官們印象深刻。

One is, of course, the regime posing a threat potentially to countries which are enabling what the US Is doing.

一種當然是政權，它可能對那些支持美國行動的國家構成威脅。

But also when it comes to the terrorist threat, we also have to be conscious of that which is already there now for over 45 years.

但在恐怖主義威脅方面，我們也必須意識到，這種威脅已經存在了45年。

I know my own country where members of the Iranian diaspora were in the Netherlands under attack by Iran.

我知道我的國家，伊朗僑民成員在荷蘭受到了伊朗的攻擊。

We have seen assassinations all over Europe.

我們在歐洲各地都發生過暗殺事件。

So let's not forget with what type of regime we are dealing with.

所以，我們不要忘記我們正在與什麼樣的政權打交道。

And this is exactly the reason why all of us in Europe are extremely glad with what the Americans are doing here, because so it's that they cannot get their hands on this nuclear and ballistic capability.

這正是我們歐洲人為何對美國在此採取的行動感到非常高興的原因，因為這樣一來，他們就無法掌握核武和彈道飛彈的能力。

Well, you seem convinced by the objective of regime change.

嗯，看來你對政權更迭的目標深信不疑。

Is that what has been spelt out to you by the Secretary of War and by Marco Rubio?

這就是戰爭部長和馬可盧比歐向你闡述的嗎？

I'm not talking to you about regime change.

What I'm telling you is that I'm happy that these capabilities are degraded.

我告訴你的是，我很高興這些能力被削弱了。

We will see over the coming days and weeks how this will develop.

在接下來的幾天和幾週內，我們將會看到事態如何發展。

I hope for sure that Iranian people will have a vote in their own future government.

我希望伊朗人民能確定地投票決定自己的未來政府。

And secondly, I expect when this ends that Iran is not any longer an exporter of chaos to the region.

第二，我預期這場戰爭結束後，伊朗將不再是地區的混亂輸出國。

Export of chaos to Europe, an exporter of chaos to Ukraine by enabling the Russian war effort, degrading all those capabilities.

輸出混亂到歐洲，透過支持俄羅斯的軍事行動，削弱所有這些能力，輸出混亂到烏克蘭。

How do you imagine this is going to affect the war in Ukraine?

你認為這將如何影響烏克蘭的戰爭？

First of all, the US Support for it, and also the supply of those shahed drones to Russia.

首先是美國的支持，還有這些無人機供應給俄羅斯。

Well, first of all, let's be conscious of the fact that the US Is providing key military enablements to Ukraine paid for by European and Canadian allies, including crucial interceptors.

嗯，首先，我們要意識到美國為烏克蘭提供了關鍵的軍事支援，這是由歐洲和加拿大盟友買單的，包括重要的攔截器。

Let's not forget that Iran, through the Shahid drones, is one of the main providers of military support to Russia to wage that war against Ukraine.

我們別忘了，伊朗透過無人機，是俄羅斯發動對烏克蘭戰爭的主要軍事支援者之一。

This will no doubt to have a huge impact on the potential for Ukraine to continue doing that.

這無疑會對烏克蘭繼續這樣做的潛力產生巨大影響。

And we have to make sure that also going forward, Ukraine has what it needs to stay as strong as possible in the fight.

我們必須確保未來烏克蘭也能獲得所需的一切，以盡可能強大地面對這場戰鬥。

And I will do everything I can to make that happen.

Before we let you go we're looking at a new life.

在讓你離開之前，我們正在看一個新的畫面。

Picture just coming into is now of a strike in south Beirut.

剛剛傳來的貝魯特南部遭到襲擊的畫面。

It does look as though this war is expanding.

看起來這場戰爭似乎正在擴大。

Are you at all concerned about the chaos that might ensue?

你會擔心可能隨之而來的混亂嗎？

We hope that as few people from Israel or the United States will be involved in terms of lethality.

我們希望盡量減少以色列或美國人員的傷亡。