How do you put a team in place?

如何組建團隊？

So let me tell you a little bit about the history behind the Old Souls and the full group with the Apprentice Group, the Jazz Maniacs it's called.

讓我來向你們介紹一下 Old Souls 背後的歷史，以及與 Apprentice Group（學徒小組）組成的完整小組，也就是所謂的 "爵士狂人"（Jazz Maniacs）。

So essentially, it was around 2016, 2017, I was personally a little bit frustrated with the fact that I was missing a little bit this concept of training.

是以，從本質上講，大約是在 2016 年、2017 年，我個人對自己有點缺失培訓這一概念感到有些沮喪。

Okay, there were the parties, then the festivals and the competitions, but where do people go and train?

好吧，有派對，有節日，有比賽，但人們去哪裡訓練呢？

Now, there were some training sessions in Brussels, but it turned out to be more of like a tea dance, you know, or people like, you know, putting on very slow music and just kind of social dancing together.

現在，在布魯塞爾有一些培訓課程，但結果更像是茶舞，你知道，或者人們喜歡，你知道，放上非常慢的音樂，只是一起跳社交舞。

And it didn't really feel like the trainings that I was used to as a b-boy, which was truly busting your arse and sweating like crazy and, you know, like running out of breath type of training.

我覺得這和我以前的訓練不太一樣，以前的訓練是真正的拼命訓練，汗流浹背，氣喘吁吁。

So with Jill, we seeked out to establish something and we were fortunate to have our friend Slabs and his partner at the time that were also motivated to do something.

是以，我們和吉爾一起尋求建立自己的公司，我們很幸運，當時我們的朋友斯拉普斯和他的合夥人也想做點什麼。

And so we founded the first Old Souls group, it was just the four of us.

於是我們成立了第一個 "老靈魂 "小組，當時只有我們四個人。

This is what I generally say to people.

這就是我通常對人們說的話。

For training, I would recommend that if you're by yourself, find somebody else.

關於培訓，我建議如果你是一個人，就找別人吧。

If you're doing Lindy Hop and you're a couple, find another couple.

如果你們是一對情侶在跳林迪舞，那就找另一對情侶吧。

Now, another reason that I wanted to do training is that it was purely selfishly.

現在，我想參加培訓的另一個原因是，這純粹是出於私心。

I hate training by myself.

我討厭一個人訓練。

I hate being in a room and then just, you know, like just looking around and nobody's there.

我討厭待在一個房間裡，環顧四周卻空無一人。

I like to see people, other people, busting their arse and feeling like, oh, you know, I shouldn't be sleeping here, I should be, you know, working as well.

我喜歡看到別人拼命工作，感覺自己不應該睡在這裡，我也應該工作。

And the reason is, is that also the effect of having somebody else come into training with you is that when you're not motivated because it's raining outside or because the public transport isn't working or for some reason, you're like, hey, I just better stay at home and watch a movie and that's it.

原因是，讓別人和你一起參加訓練的效果是，當你因為外面下雨、公共交通不發達或其他原因而沒有動力時，你會想，嘿，我還是呆在家裡看場電影吧，就這樣。

You know that that other person is showing up to training and waiting for you and expecting you.

你要知道，對方會出現在訓練場上，等待著你，期待著你。

So they're going to send you a message, okay, I'll see you later at training.

所以他們會給你發資訊，好的，我們訓練時再見。

They'll be like, or they'll even say, hey, where are you?

他們會說，嘿，你在哪兒？

And you know, you don't want to let them down.

你知道，你不想讓他們失望。

So that's when, you know, you put on your raincoat and you take the bike and you cycle to training or whatever, you know.

這時候，你就會穿上雨衣，騎上自行車，去參加訓練或其他活動。

So it allows, it allows to pull you out of the rut, pull you out of the mud.

是以，它能讓你擺脫困境，走出泥潭。

And when the other person is feeling down, you do that favor for them.

當對方情緒低落時，你就幫他這個忙。

So that's good.

這樣很好。

And when it comes to Lindy Hop as a couple, it can, things can quickly get out of hand where you start kind of having a little bit of rouse or whatever.

說到情侶林迪-霍普舞，事情很快就會失控，你會開始有點騷動或其他什麼的。

And what's nice is when there's somebody else in the room, you can say, hey, we're having a disagreement here.

最棒的是，當房間裡有其他人時，你可以說，嘿，我們在這裡有分歧。

Can I try it with you or can you figure out, can you help us out here or make a, you know, help us make a choice or, you know, and that really, really relieves a lot of tension.

我可以和你一起試試嗎，或者你能不能想辦法，你能不能幫幫我們，或者幫我們做個選擇，或者，你知道的，這樣真的能緩解很多緊張情緒。

If you have that agreement together, say, hey, time out, let's ask.

如果你們達成了一致，就說，嘿，暫停一下，我們來問問。

And, and it's, it's, it's very nice to have that third, third eye, you know, a different opinion.

而且，有第三隻眼、第三隻眼是非常好的，你知道，不同的意見。

And then the other thing as well is that simply it's just way more fun to train all together and to be able to set a date for ourselves to do, okay, we're going to do a routine.

還有一點就是，大家一起訓練會更有趣，而且可以為自己設定一個日期，"好吧，我們來做一個動作"。

Now, the way that we did it is that we set very classic routines at the beginning.

現在，我們的做法是，一開始就設定非常經典的套路。

We said, okay, we're going to do a Tranky Do slash California routine performance.

我們說，好吧，我們就來一場 "特蘭基道"（Tranky Do）和 "加州套路"（California routine）的表演。

And that's all we did.

這就是我們所做的一切。

We kind of mixed it together.

我們把它混在了一起。

We created something.

我們創造了一些東西。

We started choreographing something, but the material that was in there, the choreographic material was always based on some old school stuff.

我們開始編舞，但裡面的素材、編舞素材總是基於一些老派的東西。

This was important to us because we established our style and our common ground as we love the old school aesthetic, right?

這對我們來說很重要，因為我們確立了自己的風格和共同點，因為我們都喜歡老派美學，不是嗎？

So we're always looking up to the originators of the dance, whether it would be the video clips or the material or whatever it was.

是以，我們一直在仰望舞蹈的鼻祖，無論是視頻剪輯還是素材或其他任何東西。

And this is kind of important as well to establish as a group is what is it that identifies you?

這一點也很重要，因為作為一個團體，你們的身份是什麼？

Now, you don't need to absolutely do this at the very beginning, but the earlier you do it, the clearer it is.

現在，你不需要絕對在一開始就這樣做，但越早做就越清楚。

And from that day on, from those group, four people from that day on with that common interest that we had is going to define the whole stylistic choice and value for the whole rest of the legacy.

從那一天起，從那一組人中，從那一天起，有共同興趣的四個人將決定整個風格的選擇和整個遺產的價值。

I assure you that.

我向你們保證

And we were very, almost very conservative in our way of approaching the dance and jazz and Lindy Hop.

我們對待舞蹈、爵士樂和林迪-霍普舞的方式非常、幾乎非常保守。

And so it has left an imprint on the rest of people.

是以，它給其他人留下了深刻印象。

I'll go back to that.

我會回去的。

I'll go back to having a common vision afterwards, but setting up that team at first, that's all you need.

之後我會再談共同願景，但一開始建立團隊，這就是你所需要的一切。

And just make sure that you have people who are extremely committed.

而且要確保你的員工都非常投入。

It's if you're going to go with somebody else, just make sure that you both agree that, okay, we are committed.

如果你要和別人一起去，只要確保你們雙方都同意，好吧，我們承諾了。

We are dedicated to this, right?

我們致力於此，對嗎？

And establish little goals for yourselves so that you feel like you're getting achievements.

為自己設立一些小目標，這樣你們就會覺得自己取得了成就。

You put it, again, you do a little showcase, a tiny, tiny, mincy showcase at a social dance, and you're going to feel like, okay, you've achieved something together.

你把它放進去，同樣，你在社交舞會上做一個小小的展示，一個很小很小的展示，你就會覺得，好吧，你們一起取得了一些成就。

And then you move on.

然後繼續前進。

You set the next one and set the next one.

你設定下一個，再設定下一個。

Now, what happened between the four people there and now the nearly 40 people training today in Brussels?

現在，在那裡的四個人和今天在布魯塞爾接受訓練的近 40 人之間發生了什麼？

So when we put the Old Souls together and we were four or five people, we wanted to seek more people to be honest.

是以，當我們把 "老靈魂 "組合在一起時，我們只有四五個人，說實話，我們想找更多的人。

But the thing was, is that nobody truly had the aspiration or the level that we had.

但問題是，沒有人真正有我們這樣的抱負和水準。

We had traveled to different festivals.

我們去過不同的節日。

We were looking at those old clips, figuring things out ourselves for already some time.

我們看著這些老片段，自己摸索了一段時間。

And we felt that there was nobody really close to the level that we were trying to achieve at that moment.

我們覺得當時沒有人能夠真正達到我們想要達到的水準。

And the other thing, what happened was, is that as we were doing these kind of small shows, people were asking us, can I join the trainings?

另一件事是，我們在做這些小型演出時，有人問我們，我能參加培訓嗎？

And this is a phenomenon that will occur.

這種現象將會出現。

At the beginning, we were doing things, shows, where we were crashing, it looked rubbish.

一開始，我們做的事情、表演，我們都在崩潰，看起來很垃圾。

But after a while, people started to see, oh, wow, this isn't so bad, actually.

但過了一段時間，人們開始發現，哦，哇，這其實也沒那麼糟。

Or people, oh, wow, they're really improving.

或者人們，哦，哇，他們真的在進步。

And people seeing where we were trying to bring jazz and the Lindy Hop and could feel like, hey, actually, I want to do that too.

人們看到我們試圖把爵士樂和林迪-霍普舞（Lindy Hop）帶入其中，就會覺得，嘿，其實我也想這麼做。

People were somewhat knocking on our door.

有人來敲我們的門。

And at the same time, we felt that we needed new people to be able to continue this legacy and grow as a team.

與此同時，我們認為我們需要新人來繼承這一傳統，並作為一個團隊不斷髮展壯大。

And therefore, we launched an audition.

是以，我們啟動了試鏡。

We felt that that was probably the best way to do things.

我們覺得這可能是最好的辦法。

And we did an audition.

我們進行了試鏡。

There was 35 people that showed up, more or less.

或多或少有 35 人到場。

And the way that we did the audition was, I would teach a small routine, very simple routine.

我們試鏡的方式是，我會教一小套動作，非常簡單的動作。

I think it was like maybe eight eights or whatever.

我想大概是八個八之類的。

You know, I show that in 10 minutes, and it's like, okay, practice.

你知道，我在 10 分鐘內就能展示出來，就像，好吧，練習一下。

And we would look at who was generally practicing versus those who were just kind of standing there and waiting for me to show the steps again.

我們會看看哪些人在練習，哪些人只是站在那裡，等著我再次展示舞步。

And so it was less about the end result of that choreography, but more like what's the methodology of working.

是以，編舞的最終結果並不重要，更重要的是工作方法。

That was more the what we were seeking, because that's what we were afraid of, is that we didn't want to turn this training into a class.

這正是我們所追求的，因為這正是我們所擔心的，我們不想把這次培訓變成一堂課。

So that was a very important quality.

是以，這是一個非常重要的品質。

And nobody had techniques.

沒有人有技術。

So nobody had foundation.

所以沒有人有地基。

So that was less, certainly at that time, less of a quality.

是以，在當時，這已經不是什麼品質問題了。

And at the end of the day, we took something like two or three people.

最後，我們帶走了兩三個人。

And when they showed up the next week to trainings, they were expecting obviously a lot more people to be there.

而當他們下週參加培訓時，他們期待的人顯然要多得多。

And they looked around, and they just saw us and those two other folks.

他們環顧四周，只看到我們和另外兩個人。

So they were like, oh, wow, so this is kind of serious.

於是他們就想，哦，哇，原來是這麼回事。

And we were like, yeah, this is really serious.

我們當時想，是啊，這真的很嚴重。

So there was a pressure to commit.

是以，有一種壓力要求我們做出承諾。

There was also a feeling, of course, I think of for them, perhaps as a success, like they made it or something like that.

當然，我認為他們也有一種感覺，也許是一種成功，就像他們成功了之類的。

So it does help like people feel like, okay, I should commit to this, you know.

是以，這確實會讓人們覺得，好吧，我應該投入到這個項目中，你知道的。

And what happened after that was there were more and more people that started knocking on our doors to be part of this as well.

之後發生的事情是，越來越多的人開始敲我們的門，希望我們也能參與其中。

And in that case, we were only training the Friday night.

在這種情況下，我們只在週五晚上進行訓練。

And we said, let's open up a second day of training.

我們說，讓我們開始第二天的培訓吧。

And that was the Sunday afternoon.

那是星期天的下午。

And that was an open session.

這是一次公開會議。

It was an open session where everybody can join in.

這是一次公開會議，每個人都可以參加。

The thing was, is that now we had, you know, six, seven, eight dancers who knew how to train that were now, when there was like five or six or eight other dancers that joined, they were, they knew to follow the others and the whole structure.

事情是這樣的，現在我們有六、七、八位知道如何訓練的舞者，當有五、六、八位舞者加入時，他們知道要跟隨其他人和整個結構。

So everything was set in place.

於是，一切都準備就緒。

So it didn't fall into a tea dance.

所以它並沒有陷入茶舞之中。

And you know, it would be the first thing when somebody steps into that room, we would say, hey, welcome, you know, it's great to have you.

你知道，當有人踏進那個房間時，我們首先會說，嘿，歡迎你，你知道，很高興有你。

This is how it works.

它是這樣工作的。

So the first hour was first half, we do jazz, second hour, we do Lindy Hop, or you could do whatever you want, Lindy Hop and jazz.

是以，第一個小時是上半場，我們跳爵士舞，下半場，我們跳林迪-霍普舞，或者你想跳什麼就跳什麼，林迪-霍普舞和爵士舞。

And then the last bit, you, we just do a jam or whatever, and it's very easy.

最後，我們就來個即興演奏，非常簡單。

So that's how it worked.

原來如此。

And gradually, we did more auditions, we brought more people on board.

漸漸地，我們進行了更多的試鏡，讓更多的人加入進來。

And some of those people that were initially in the B group, which we call, we said, we'll call the first group the Old Souls.

其中一些人最初屬於 B 組，我們稱之為 "老靈魂"。

And the other one, at that time, we said, let's call them the Jazz Maniacs.

而另一個，當時我們說，就叫他們 "爵士狂人 "吧。

Because it allows to, when we perform all together, we could say, hey, we're the Jazz Maniacs.

因為當我們一起表演時，我們可以說，嘿，我們是爵士狂人。

If we do, if somebody, some people were being asked sometimes to do corporate gigs, I hate corporate gigs.

如果我們這樣做，如果有人，有些人有時被要求做企業演出，我討厭企業演出。

So I don't like to be part of them.

所以，我不喜歡參與其中。

But let's put the word jazz in there.

不過，我們還是把爵士樂這個詞放進去吧。

So Jazz Maniacs, so that people know what we're looking for.

所以，爵士狂人，讓人們知道我們在尋找什麼。

The Old Souls was more like, just kind of a cool name, more for jazz connoisseurs.

老靈魂樂隊更像是一個很酷的名字，更適合爵士樂行家。

We were always with this ambition to kind of say, what if we were able to showcase jazz to urban dancers one day?

我們一直有這樣的雄心壯志：如果有一天我們能向城市舞者展示爵士樂會怎樣？

And if we were an urban dance group, what could be a funny way to call ourselves?

如果我們是一個城市舞蹈團，有什麼有趣的稱呼呢？

So that's how that name came up.

這個名字就是這麼來的。

But regardless, I don't think it's, you know, I think some confusion.

但無論如何，我不認為這是，你知道，我認為有些混亂。

I think maybe someday if you do that, just call it A Group, B Group, or Apprentice Group, or whatever it is.

我想，如果有一天你們這樣做了，就叫它 A 組、B 組或學徒組，或者其他什麼組。

But just kind of maybe put it under the same name.

不過，也許可以把它放在同一個名字下。

By the way, all of this was never attached to a school.

順便說一句，這一切都與學校無關。

So it was always independent from a school.

是以，它一直獨立於學校之外。

So if you're from a school or whatever, maybe it can work.

所以，如果你來自學校或其他什麼地方，也許能行。

But the thing was, what's nice today is that because this is fully independent from a school, there were some, I guess, retaliations between some of the schools in Brussels at some point.

但問題是，今天很好的一點是，由於這完全獨立於學校，我猜布魯塞爾的一些學校之間在某些時候會有一些報復行為。

But now all the teachers, all of those schools are asking these teachers to teach in their school.

但現在，所有的教師、所有的學校都要求這些教師到他們的學校任教。

At the end of the day, all the schools were reaping the benefits from this project, which was just purely, you know, independent from anything and not attached to a school or anything.

最後，所有學校都從這個項目中獲益，因為這個項目是純粹的，你知道，它獨立於任何東西，不附屬於學校或任何東西。

Now financially, how does it work when you're renting a room?

現在，在經濟上，您租房時是如何運作的？

And these are the mistakes that I would say don't make the same mistakes that we did at the beginning.

這些都是我要說的錯誤，不要重蹈覆轍。

At first, we said, all right, this is the cost of the room.

起初，我們說，好吧，這是房間的費用。

We'll divide it between anybody, you know, that shows up.

我們會把它分給任何人，你知道的，來的人。

So this is the cost per hour.

這就是每小時的成本。

We have it for two or three hours.

我們有兩三個小時的時間。

And so we divided the cost between those that would show up.

於是，我們把費用分攤給了願意來的人。

And I would do an Excel sheet of, okay, who showed up?

我會做一個 Excel 表，列出誰來了。

Okay, now you need to pay X.

好吧，現在你需要支付 X。

But what we were doing was we were punishing those who were the most committed because they would show up the most to the trainings and have to pay the most.

但我們所做的是懲罰那些最有奉獻精神的人，因為他們參加培訓的次數最多，需要支付的費用也最多。

And I thought that was really unfair.

我覺得這真的很不公平。

And it was also a nightmare to organize, to figure out who was there and, you know, nightmare.

組織工作也是一場噩夢，要搞清楚誰在那裡，你知道的，噩夢。

So at the end of the day, we said, look, easy peasy.

所以最後我們說，看，很簡單。

It's just you pay for six months.

只需支付六個月的費用。

That's it.

就是這樣。

A straight fee for six months.

直接收費六個月。

It's like almost like a membership just to be able to show up to those trainings whenever you want.

這就像會員制一樣，只要你願意，隨時都可以參加這些培訓。

And if you miss out, that's your problem.

如果你錯過了，那就是你的問題了。

And at the end of the day, it wasn't very expensive.

說到底，它並不昂貴。

I don't know.

我不知道。

I think it was like maybe 40 euros per person for six months, something along those lines.

我想大概是每人 40 歐元，為期 6 個月之類的。

And yeah, to be honest with you, I think we should have put that in place way, way sooner if we'd known.

是的，老實說，如果我們知道的話，我覺得我們應該更早、更早地把它落實到位。

And if there are some other projects where you want to do some, you're prepping a show or a competition and you need more rooms more often, then we would just split the cost evenly between everybody.

如果有其他項目，你想做一些，你正在準備一個節目或一個比賽，你需要更多的房間更頻繁，那麼我們就會把費用平均分攤給每個人。

OK, it doesn't matter who showed up or didn't.

好吧，誰來誰不來並不重要。

So again, the same kind of principle.

所以，還是同樣的原則。

And when you have more people, you know, it's always a it's a it's a lot of work for one person to inspire people and organize the rooms and this and that.

當你有更多的人時，你知道，一個人總是要花費很多精力去激勵大家，組織房間，做這做那。

And Jill was very much a part of the whole production behind that and the logistics.

吉爾參與了整個製作和後勤工作。

And to be honest, it's a lot of work.

老實說，工作量很大。

So if you can very quickly have just asked in the group who would be willing to take on board, you know, organizing a room, you know, are taking care of the expenses there or this or that right now.

所以，如果你能很快地在小組裡問一下，誰願意加入，你知道的，組織一個房間，你知道的，現在正在照顧那裡的開支或這個或那個。

And then you can rotate that every six months or every year or so.

然後每半年或一年左右輪換一次。

But definitely don't don't don't think that you could do everything by yourself for, you know, two years straight.

但絕對不要認為你可以連續兩年什麼都自己做。

You're going to be burnt out.

你會精疲力竭的。

So, yeah.

所以，是的。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Thank you.

謝謝。