He's not going to be like, oh, you're chummy with Craig Doucette, my enemy.

他不會說，哦，你和克雷格-杜塞特很熟，他是我的敵人。

And I feel like at some point, I'm going to get both of you guys together with me.

我覺得總有一天，我會讓你們倆和我一起去。

I've already said I welcome being on a podcast with you and Mike.

我已經說過，我歡迎與你和邁克一起參加播客。

I don't want to debate.

我不想辯論。

I've always been talking to him.

我一直在跟他說話。

Do you know, not Mark Bell, but his brother, Chris, Chris Bell.

你知道嗎，不是馬克-貝爾，而是他哥哥克里斯-貝爾。

I remember Mark quite well.

我記得馬克很清楚。

Look at him.

看看他

Chris, he did Bigger, Faster, Stronger.

克里斯，他做了 "更大、更快、更強"。

I know him very well.

我非常瞭解他。

I watched the show.

我看了節目。

Yeah, he came to my house because he was in town.

是的，他來過我家，因為他在城裡。

But in this interview, I feel like it was, might've been like the best I've spoken like in any interview ever.

但在這次採訪中，我覺得這可能是我在任何採訪中說得最好的一次。

And I thought really deeply about it.

我對此深思熟慮。

And I was like, this one time I saw a guy who was blatantly natural, very, pretty athletic guy.

我當時想，有一次我看到了一個人，他很自然，非常健美。

And I just remember looking at him smile.

我只記得看著他笑。

And then like, he saw his wife, gave her a hug.

然後，他看到了自己的妻子，給了她一個擁抱。

And then he had like his kid.

然後他有了自己的孩子

And he was like, hey, don't do that.

他就說，嘿，別這樣。

And he had just got done with the workout.

而他剛剛完成了鍛鍊。

And I saw him and I've never been more motivated in my entire life.

我看到了他，我這輩子從來沒有這麼有動力過。

Wow, just from that.

哇，就是從那開始的。

I was just from that.

我就是從那裡來的。

I was like that, like, it gives me the chills just thinking about it now.

我當時就想，現在想起來都覺得不寒而慄。

That guy has an understanding of fitness that is intrinsic.

那傢伙對健身的理解是與生俱來的。

He has an understanding of mental fitness of what actually makes him happy.

他對心理健康有所瞭解，知道什麼能讓他感到快樂。

The things that actually, maybe not even move the needle in like the terms of like, we were so obsessed with progress.

實際上，我們對進步如此著迷，也許根本無法改變現狀。

I mean, look at this shit, dude.

我的意思是，看看這個狗屎，紈絝子弟。

I got no, it says no excuses, just improve.

我沒有，它說沒有藉口，只有改進。

You see that?

看到了嗎？

Weightlifting for me was one more pound on the bar.

舉重對我來說就是在槓上多加一磅。

I don't give a shit about anything else.

我才不管別的呢。

And that was actually really healthy way for me to look at it.

對我來說，這樣看問題其實很健康。

I never had a single goal, not one goal.

我從來沒有一個目標，沒有一個目標。

I still, to this day, don't have goals.

直到今天，我仍然沒有目標。

My idea is just improve.

我的想法只是改進。

It sounds like he moved you so much because you could see a lot of him in yourself and he was kind of like a goal.

聽起來他讓你非常感動，因為你能在自己身上看到他的影子，他就像是你的目標。

Like maybe that's what you're aspiring to be.

也許這就是你的理想。

Like, for sure.

就像，肯定的。

But what I'm saying is there was an evolution beyond no excuses, just improve that I'm kind of on right now.

但我想說的是，我現在正在經歷的是一種超越藉口的進化，只是一種提高。

Because the idea of no excuses, just improve.

因為 "沒有任何藉口，只要不斷進步"。

You're gonna create stress just in the name of improvement.

你會以改進為名製造壓力。

Yeah.

是啊

And I'll tell you right now, that's a slippery slope in itself, unless you have a grasp, unless you understand that.

我現在就告訴你，這本身就是一個滑坡，除非你有把握，除非你明白這一點。

Because if you look at a guy like Alex Eubank, how the fuck he gonna improve? Gotta take steroids to improve.

因為如果你看看像亞歷克斯-尤班克這樣的人，他怎麼可能進步？ 必須服用類固醇才能進步

And my thing is like, oh shit.

我的感覺就像，哦，該死。

When I saw that guy, he had like kind of visible abs.

我看到那傢伙時，他的腹肌清晰可見。

I would say he's probably like 15% or maybe less, like 15, 12.

我想說，他可能只佔 15%，或者更少，比如 15%、12%。

Just super healthy.

就是超級健康。

Yeah, super healthy, smiling, great.

是啊，超級健康，笑容滿面，棒極了。

You know, like attractive wife, kids, like that goes through problems.

你知道，就像有魅力的妻子、孩子一樣，會遇到各種問題。

Like probably went to bed at like 1030.

大概是 10 點 30 分上床睡覺的。

Probably woke up at like 730.

大概是 7 點 30 分醒來的。

You know, had a breakfast of like a bagel and a coffee.

你知道，早餐就是一個麵包圈和一杯咖啡。

An important process is implementing gratitude in your life too, because if you can't be gracious or happy with what you've accomplished, then you're never gonna be happy.

在生活中實施感恩也是一個重要的過程，因為如果你不能對自己的成就感到親切或快樂，那麼你永遠都不會快樂。

So my question to you though, Greg, is it possible to have that understanding as a male unless you go hard in some way?

那麼，我想問你，格雷格，作為一個男性，除非你在某些方面付出了艱辛，否則你有可能擁有這種理解嗎？

And the idea, I think, I'm beginning to think for my message to people out there is to go hard.

我想，我開始覺得，我向人們傳達的資訊就是要努力前進。

Lose yourself in your training, become a little bit toxic, but do not make mistakes that you cannot be unmade.

在訓練中迷失自我，變得有點毒，但不要犯無法彌補的錯誤。

So if you are training naturally, I would urge you to train seven days a week.

是以，如果你正在進行自然訓練，我建議你每週訓練七天。

I would urge you to overtrain.

我建議你進行過度訓練。

I would urge you to not sleep as much as you should be.

我勸你不要睡得那麼死。

And I would urge you to maybe mess with some relationships because they're getting in the way of your gains.

我勸你或許可以打亂一些關係，因為它們妨礙了你的收益。

And then when you do learn your lesson, when you do see that God that you wanna be, you'll be okay.

然後，當你吸取教訓，當你看到你想成為的上帝時，你就會沒事了。

The problem is if you push that limit and you take trend and you take grams of steroids, that day when you have that real revelation, you've now made an unchangeable mistake in your life.

問題是，如果你突破了這一極限，你趨炎附勢，服用了幾克類固醇，當你真正得到啟示的那一天，你的人生就犯下了不可改變的錯誤。

I think some people don't understand that there's more than one way to improve in your life.

我認為有些人不明白，改善生活的方法不止一種。

There's more than one way to get dopamine and to be a better man.

獲取多巴胺和成為更好的男人的方法不止一種。

And it's not just about the physical, there's physical, mental, social, spiritual, anything in your life you can improve.

這不僅僅是身體上的問題，還有身體、心理、社交、精神等生活中任何可以改善的方面。

I am beyond my capabilities.

我已經力不從心了。

I'm 49.

我49歲了

I can't get bigger and stronger and faster than when I'm setting records.

我不能比創紀錄時更高大、更強壯、更快速。

So could I keep getting bigger?

那麼，我還能繼續變大嗎？

No, I tried.

不，我試過了。

I kept upping the dose, took more and more tests, trend all of it, and it worked for a while.

我不斷加大劑量，做了越來越多的檢查，所有的檢查都趨向於此，這在一段時間內起了作用。

But eventually you get to a point where you can't get any better.

但最終，你會發現自己再也無法變得更好了。

And so then you pivot.

於是，你就轉向了。

I couldn't get any better at bodybuilding, but I bet I could get better at cycling.

我不能在健美方面變得更好，但我打賭我能在騎自行車方面變得更好。

So I got on my bike and I started improving at that.

於是，我騎上自行車，開始改進。

And not only that, I stopped watching TV.

不僅如此，我還不再看電視了。

Like I literally don't watch TV.

就像我真的不看電視一樣。

I have all these amazing TVs in the house.

我家裡有這麼多神奇的電視。

I don't watch them.

我不看。

I read books and I study a third language.

我閱讀書籍，學習第三種語言。

Well, four, if you count Gen Z, I'm speaking four languages, Spanish, Gen Z, English, and French.

好吧，是四種，如果算上 Z 世代，我會說四種語言：西班牙語、Z 世代、英語和法語。

And so I'm progressing in all aspects of my life.

是以，我在生活的各個方面都取得了進步。

And not just in reading, understanding, also in relationships, trying to have better friends, how to talk to friends, how to treat friends.

不僅在閱讀和理解方面，在人際交往方面也是如此，努力擁有更好的朋友，如何與朋友交談，如何對待朋友。

And so I'm trying to get better with everything.

是以，我在努力把一切都做得更好。

And so whether you're trying to improve on your physique, your social ability, your skills, maybe your girlfriend, how to talk better to your partner, being a better father or wife or husband, there's so many things that can get better.

是以，無論你是想改善你的體質、社交能力、技能，還是想改善你的女朋友、如何更好地與伴侶交談、成為一個更好的父親、妻子或丈夫，有很多事情都可以變得更好。

And so why focus on just one?

那麼，為什麼只關注一個呢？

The body, it's one out of four.

身體，是四個人中的一個。

You're focusing on 25%.

你關注的是 25%。

And so when you said, you know, go all out seven days a week, maybe fail a relationship.

所以當你說，你知道，一週七天都要全力以赴，也許會讓一段感情失敗。

I don't really believe that.

我真的不相信。

I believe that 100% is from all four factors.

我相信，100% 是來自所有這四個因素。

Try to maximize all of them.

嘗試最大限度地利用它們。

Again, it's a working theory, Greg.

再說一遍，這只是一個可行的理論，格雷格。

I don't know.

我不知道。

You do have to make mistakes to learn.

你必須犯錯誤，才能學到東西。

I made all the mistakes.

我犯了所有的錯誤。

So I'm coming from a guy at 49.

所以，我來自一個 49 歲的男人。

When I was your age, I was blasting hella gear.

我在你這個年紀的時候，就已經是個爆炸達人了。

The thing is like, you gotta, you have to tell people to go make mistakes.

事情就是這樣，你必須告訴人們去犯錯誤。

But you have to be like, don't make the wrong ones.

但是，你必須明白，別做錯了。

Yeah.

是啊

That's what, that's my thesis.

這就是我的論文。

And maybe I said it in the wrong way.

也許我說錯了。

Like messing up a relationship probably is not ideal, you know, but maybe that wasn't the best example.

你知道，搞砸一段感情可能並不理想，但也許這並不是最好的例子。

It's hard for me to say, relax, you know, maybe.

我很難說，放鬆，你知道，也許吧。

There's things you can't undo.

有些事情是無法挽回的。

Like go fucking hard.

就像去他媽的硬。

Go hard.

加油

Perk!

福利

Go hard.

加油

Perk!

福利

Then when you have that revelation, just don't be so far gone that you can't, that you have these regrets.

當你有了這種啟示，就不要再走得太遠，以至於你做不到，以至於你有這些遺憾。

Yeah.

是啊

There's things you can't undo.

有些事情是無法挽回的。

Once you start taking steroids, you can't undo taking steroids.

一旦開始服用類固醇，就無法挽回。

You can get married and get a divorce.

你可以結婚，也可以離婚。

You can't take Trend and then be natty.

你不能拿了特倫特，就能成為國家隊。

So once it's something permanent, that's just like, this is it.

所以，一旦成為永久性的東西，那就像，這就是它。

Like you're going to take the steroid.

就像你要服用類固醇一樣。

That's forever.

那是永遠。

Like HRT is forever.

說得好像人力資源管理局（HRT）是永恆的一樣。

You could say, oh, I'm going to stop.

你可以說，哦，我不說了。

That's a big difference.

這是一個很大的區別。

Girlfriends, they can come and go.

女朋友，來來去去。

Relationships, friends, all that can come and go.

關係、朋友，所有這些都會來來去去。

But using drugs, this is a big decision to make.

但使用毒品，這是一個重大的決定。

So, you know, Pete Rubish.

皮特-魯比什

Yes.

是的。

I've competed with him in powerlifting way back.

很久以前，我和他一起參加過舉重比賽。

Pete is probably one of my greatest influences in this entire sphere.

皮特可能是對我影響最大的人之一。

I will say that right now.

我現在就說。

What he has done is one of the most amazing feats in this entire industry.

他的成就是整個行業中最令人驚歎的壯舉之一。

And it has gone unsaid for far, far too long.

而這一問題已經被擱置太久太久了。

This guy was on grams and grams of gear.

這傢伙身上的裝備一克又一克。

We're talking about like the era of like elite FTS.

我們說的是精英 FTS 時代。

You remember elite FTS era, like Testosterone Nation era, where we had powerlifters going hard, like changing the game, putting up like Dan Green.

你還記得精英 FTS 時代，就像睪丸素國家時代，我們的舉重運動員奮力拼搏，就像改變比賽一樣，像丹-格林一樣奮力拼搏。

That guy.

那個人

I competed with Dan Green.

我和丹-格林一起參賽。

I remember all these guys.

我記得這些人

That guy did more gear.

那傢伙做了更多的裝備。

And these guys do crazy amounts of gear.

而這些人的裝備數量多得嚇人。

And Pete Rubish was like, oh, this is what we do.

皮特-魯比什說，哦，這就是我們的工作。

This is how it works.

它是這樣工作的。

And Pete Rubish went, and I'm pretty sure he's not taking anything.

皮特-魯比什去了 我很確定他什麼也沒拿

Yeah, he went natural.

是的，他很自然。

He was on a lot of steroids.

他服用了大量類固醇。

He was deadlifting with the freaking washer dryer in the background or whatever it was.

他在舉重時，洗衣機烘乾機什麼的就在背景裡。

And going crazy and screaming.

瘋狂地尖叫

He was like a kind of like a Larry Wheels of the time.

他就像是當時的拉里-惠爾斯（Larry Wheels）。

He obviously is hypogonadal currently, and he might never get his balls back.

很明顯，他現在性腺功能減退，他的蛋蛋可能再也找不回來了。

He might, I don't know enough.

也許吧，我還不夠了解。

I haven't talked to him in a while.

我有一段時間沒跟他說話了。

We did a podcast and I just was like, dude, you're incredible.

我們做了一次播客，我當時就想，哥們兒，你太不可思議了。

Like I can't, off the top of my head, I cannot think of another person who's doing what he's done or has, you know, or is attempting, at least in the face of all that he's done.

我想不出還有誰能像他一樣，至少在面對他所做的一切時，能做到或已經做到，你知道，或正在嘗試。

I don't know of another guy.

我不知道還有誰。

I would say you're pretty motivational in the way that you're like, I'm obsessed with these bike races.

我想說的是，你的激勵方式就像 "我對這些自行車比賽很著迷"。

I love cardio.

我喜歡有氧運動。

I love reading.

我喜歡閱讀。

I love these things now.

我現在愛死這些東西了。

Like there are parts of this that like we can make a difference.

就像有些地方我們可以有所作為一樣。

There was a fuck ton of gear use and there still is.

現在依然如此。

But these Russians and even the East German team, a lot of these people died.

但是，這些俄羅斯人，甚至東德隊，很多人都死了。

They became very violent.

他們變得非常暴力。

They killed themselves.

他們自殺了。

They had liver diseases.

他們患有肝病。

And this was back in the day when we didn't really keep track of these people.

這還是在我們還沒有真正記錄這些人的時候。

We just let them die.

我們只是讓他們死去。

We just let them become shells of themselves.

我們只是讓他們成為自己的軀殼。

Yeah.

是啊

Speaking of these lifters, I was in China and the, I think his name was Yao something.

說到這些舉重運動員，我當時在中國，他好像叫姚什麼的。

He's the three-time gold medalist in Olympic lifting, had all these Chinese records.

他是三屆奧運會舉重金牌得主，擁有所有這些中國紀錄。

And me- Liu Xiaoshan.

而我--劉小山。

Is it Liu Xiaoshan?

是劉小山嗎？

He gave me two sets of shoes and stuff because I'd made a natty or not, or he had failed a drug test for EPO or whatever.

他給了我兩套鞋子之類的東西，因為我是否打進了全國比賽，或者他是否沒有通過 EPO 藥物測試之類的。

And I made a natty or not and said, this is not what he would do.

我說，他不會這麼做的。

So I basically defended that he was natural.

所以，我基本上是在為他的天性辯護。

I argued that this guy was natural.

我認為這傢伙是天生的。

And so in that country, they're like, what a great guy.

所以在那個國家，他們會說，這是個了不起的人。

This great guy is so great.

這個偉大的傢伙太偉大了。

I made a video also saying the United States, I don't believe that they're natural.

我還製作了一個視頻，說美國，我不相信他們是天生的。

And the swim team, they were having the blue face and everything.

還有游泳隊，他們的臉都是藍色的。

I argued they were taking different kinds of drugs to improve their ability to use oxygen and so on.

我認為他們正在服用不同種類的藥物，以提高他們使用氧氣的能力，等等。

And so he's sitting next to me and I made a video on this guy.

他就坐在我旁邊，我給他拍了一段視頻。

This guy is jacked, like maybe not my size, but pretty big.

這傢伙是個大塊頭，也許不是我的尺寸，但也相當大了。

The guy sitting next to me was 150 pounds.

坐在我旁邊的那個人有 150 磅。

He had no muscle.

他沒有肌肉。

He looked like a basketball player.

他看起來像個籃球運動員。

Maybe he looked like a bike race, a bike rider, and not like me.

也許他看起來像個自行車賽手、自行車騎手，而不像我。

And so I'm like, this is the guy I said was natural.

於是我就想，這就是我說的那個天生的傢伙。

And a year and a half ago, he had 25 pounds more muscle.

而一年半前，他的肌肉增加了 25 磅。

And so I'm like, what happened?

於是我就想，發生了什麼事？

So I just thrown out there, like, are these guys actually natural?

所以我就想，這些人真的是天生的嗎？

Like, I mean, I said he was, but how do you lose that much muscle?

我是說，我說過他是，但你怎麼能減掉那麼多肌肉呢？

So I looked at old videos, old, I mean, so my back squat was 510 pounds, like full depth high bar.

所以我看了以前的視頻，我是說以前的，我的後深蹲是 510 磅，就像全深高杆一樣。

You know, my deadlift was up to 660.

你知道，我的負重舉起了 660 磅。

I barely deadlifted 500, like a couple of weeks ago.

幾周前，我才勉強舉起 500 磅。

And mind you, I'm not training nearly as hard.

要知道，我的訓練強度還遠遠不夠。

My body type, which is, this is actually a video that I kind of want to do.

我的體型是，這其實是我想拍的一段視頻。

I was never a good, I was always like athletic.

我從來都不是一個好孩子，我總是喜歡運動。

So in the weight room, I could do well.

所以在舉重室裡，我可以做得很好。

And I think a lot of my strength coaches loved me for that.

我想我的很多力量教練都很喜歡我這一點。

They were like, damn, dude, you don't look like you're that strong for what you're able to do.

他們說："該死的，老兄，就你的能力而言，你看起來可沒那麼強壯。

I've always been that guy.

我一直就是這樣的人。

But I've never been the strong guy in the gym.

但我從來都不是健身房裡的壯漢。

Never.