The government of Prime Minister Scott Morrison argues that since Google profits from linking to news providers, the search engine should pay for the journalism.

總理斯科特-莫里森的政府認為，既然谷歌從鏈接到新聞提供商中獲利，那麼搜索引擎應該為新聞報道付費。

It is a debate reflected all over the world.

這是一場反映在全世界的辯論。

Let's hear first from Google's Australian director Mel Silver, arguing against the new law.

我們先來聽聽谷歌澳洲總監梅爾-西爾弗（Mel Silver）的觀點，他反對新法。

If this version of the code were to become law, it would give us no real choice but to stop making Google Search available in Australia.

如果這個版本的代碼成為法律，我們將別無選擇，只能停止在澳洲提供谷歌搜索。

In its current form, the code remains unworkable and if it became law, would hurt not just Google, but small publishers, small businesses and the millions of Australians that use our services every day.

在目前的形式下，該代碼仍然是不可行的，如果它成為法律，不僅會傷害谷歌，而且會傷害小型出版商、小型企業和每天使用我們服務的數百萬澳大利亞人。

Australia makes our rules for things you could do in Australia that's done in our Parliament.

澳洲制定我們的規則，你可以在澳洲做的事情，是在我們的議會中完成的。

It's done by our government and that's how things work here in Australia and people who want to work with that in Australia.

這是我們的政府做的，這就是澳洲這裡的工作方式，也是澳洲想要與之合作的人。

You're very welcome, but we don't respond to threats.

不客氣，但我們不迴應威脅。

Prime Minister Scott Morrison there well, our correspondent in Sydney Shima Khalil says the proposed law also has the support of the Australian media.

總理斯科特-莫里森那裡好，我們在雪梨的記者希瑪-哈利勒說，擬議的法律也得到了澳洲媒體的支持。

Short reaction wasn't just from Scott Morrison against Google.

短暫的反應不僅僅是斯科特-莫里森對谷歌。

We heard from lawmakers who called the threat to pull out from Australia blackmailing.

我們從立法者那裡聽到，他們稱威脅要從澳洲撤出是一種訛詐。

Some called it the big companies bullying democracy.

有人說是大公司欺負民主。

The government has been adamant that they want this law to be pushed through the Parliament and have gained a lot of political support.

政府一直堅定地希望這項法律能在議會中推行，並獲得了很多政治支持。

Have also gained support from media outlets.

也獲得了媒體的支持。

A swell who've really been losing a lot of money, Uh, in advertising revenue over the years.

一個膨脹誰真的已經失去了很多錢， 呃，在廣告收入多年。

The government eyes arguing that because the tech giants like Google, like Facebook, have gained so many consumers, so many customers and people who use their platforms to read been used billions of dollars in advertising revenue that we should pay Australian media outlets for their journalism.

政府的眼睛認為，因為像谷歌這樣的科技巨頭，像Facebook，已經獲得了這麼多的消費者，這麼多的客戶和使用他們的平臺閱讀的人已經使用了數十億美元的廣告收入，我們應該為他們的新聞報道支付澳洲媒體機構。

And this is a very much needed financial avenue for those media outlets that have been losing money.

而對於那些一直虧損的媒體來說，這是一個非常需要的經濟渠道。

We heard official reports, for example, that say that the Australian print industry has lost 75% of its advertising revenues since 2000 and five, so they're trying to balance this power.

比如說我們聽到官方的報道，說澳洲的印刷業從2000年和5年以來，廣告收入已經損失了75%，所以他們正在努力平衡這種力量。

They're trying Thio also introduce a little bit of government oversight in that relationship between the media outlets and the Google.

他們試圖Thio也引入一點政府的監督，在媒體機構和谷歌之間的關係。

But Google are equally, if not more resistance, of course.

但谷歌也同樣，甚至更多的阻力，當然。

Well, our senior tech reporters very Kleiman says that the world will be watching carefully because what happens in Australia could set a precedent for other countries.

好吧，我們的高級科技記者非常Kleiman說，世界將仔細觀察，因為在澳洲發生的事情可能會給其他國家開一個先例。

It's gonna be a really interesting one to watch, isn't it?

這將是一個非常有趣的一個看，是不是？

I mean, in a way, Australia isn't really a massive market for Google.

我的意思是，在某種程度上，澳洲對谷歌來說並不是一個大規模的市場。

You know it, it wouldn't harm it.

你知道的，它不會傷害它。

Huge need to pull out.

巨大的需求拉出來。

That said it made $4 billion out of using its services in Australia last year.

也就是說，去年它在澳洲使用其服務賺了40億澳元。

So you know it is making money out of it.

所以你知道它是在賺錢的。

It's kind of become this thing of who blinks first.

這有點變成了誰先眨眼的事情。

You've got the Australian PM saying, You know, we may affect the rules here, not you.

你讓澳洲總理說，你知道，我們可能會影響這裡的規則，而不是你。

You can't blackmail last Google saying Well, actually, everybody uses us, you know you need us.

你不能勒索最後谷歌說，好吧，其實大家都用我們，你知道你需要我們。

Um, they said they've already last week.

嗯，他們說他們已經上週。

This is quite interesting.

這是相當有趣的。

Actually, they've already last week piloted blocking new sites to about 1% of Google users.

其實，他們上週已經對大約1%的谷歌用戶試行了屏蔽新網站的措施。

They called it an experiment and said they wanted to see how much difference it made whether you know whether actually these are strange in new services were missed.

他們稱這是一個實驗，並說他們想看看它有多大的區別，你是否知道其實這些都是奇怪的在新的服務被錯過。

Well, I think Australia will be hoping that they are on, I guess.

好吧，我想澳洲會希望他們上，我想。

For Google, the fear is that if Australia go ahead with this, it could set a precedent for other countries.

對於谷歌來說，如果澳洲繼續這樣做，恐怕會給其他國家開一個先例。

Exactly right.

完全正確。

What's interesting, actually, is that they've just sat down with Frantz and agreed a agreed some sort of thing about how they're going to pay for French, uh, immediate to be used.

有趣的是，實際上，他們剛剛和弗蘭茨坐下來 商定了一些事情，關於他們如何支付法國的費用，呃，立即使用。

So you know, it's not impossible for a deal to be done here.

所以你知道，在這裡達成交易也不是不可能。

I think much like the media industry, you know a lot of advertising.

我覺得很像媒體行業，你知道很多廣告。

Disl Advertising money is going to big tech.

Disl廣告的錢都給了大科技。

Now it's going to Google onto Facebook.

現在，它要把谷歌放到Facebook上。

Australia is no exception.

澳洲也不例外。

For every $100 that's spent on digital ads, 81 is going to those companies.

每花100美元在數字廣告上，81美元就會被這些公司拿走。

So you know there's a real sense that smaller are the media is massively losing out on Australia fields.

所以你知道有一種真正的感覺，小的是媒體在澳洲場上大量流失。

I think that it wants to claw some of that back.

我覺得它想把這些東西抓回來一些。

Some of that big spend needs to come back home on DSO we do.

一些大的花費需要回到家裡的DSO我們做。

We know how the people affected feel about this.

我們知道受影響的人的感受。

The actual users in Australia, who may not be able to access Google.

澳洲的實際用戶，可能無法訪問谷歌。

I think there's a really mixed reaction here.

我覺得這裡的反應真的很複雜。

You know, some people feel like, Well, we need Google, you know, just let them get on with it.

你知道，有些人覺得，嗯，我們需要谷歌，你知道，只是讓他們得到它。

They're offering a service that we like.

他們提供的服務是我們喜歡的。

It's familiar and we've been using it for ages and time moves on, you know, how long are we going to be able to protect all of these industries that we might have had for a long time?

這是我們熟悉的，我們已經用了很久了，時間也在不斷的前進，你知道，我們要多長時間才能把這些我們可能已經有很久的產業都保護起來？

But actually, the landscape just doesn't work for many more.

但實際上，這種景觀對更多的人來說是行不通的。

And, of course, there are others who are very loyal.

當然，也有一些人非常忠誠。

Who's saying, you know, this is a huge firm?

誰說的，這是個大公司？

I said it.

我說了

It made four billion U Australian dollars in revenue last year, paid only about 45 million in tax.

去年賺了40億澳元的收入，只交了約4500萬的稅。

You know, maybe it is about right that that's balance is shifting.

你知道，也許這是對的，那是平衡的轉變。

Interestingly, Sir Tim Berners Lee, who asked, You know, eyes, the inventor of the worldwide Well, he has spoken out and said, Actually, this isn't fair.

有趣的是，蒂姆-伯納斯-李爵士，他問道："你知道嗎，眼睛，全世界的發明者...... "他說："其實，這不公平。

You know, this goes completely against the principle.

你知道，這完全違背了原則。

There's a for free Internet you cannot dictate who spends their money where and therefore who gets to be accessible where that's just not the way the web is meant to work.

有一個免費的互聯網，你不能決定誰花他們的錢在哪裡，是以，誰得到的地方，這只是沒有辦法的網絡是為了工作。