Hi.

How are you?

Very well.

How you It's lovely to meet you.

It's nice to meet you.

Thanks for coming down.

Oh, my God.

It's our pleasure.

What we in Canada?

Are we in New York?

I worry in New York.

Okay, we are in there.

We know we're telling the truth.

I didn't know if we wait, We're not We're not taking it like it.

So nice to be here.

It's so nice And counting time here long to make trees.

It's so gorgeous.

And Michael, boob like free health.

Garrett's and credit.

I really love it.

I, um I really love listening to your record here.

Thank you so much.

I really enjoyed every moment of it.

I listen to I listen to what He came out, and I put it on twice yesterday when I knew I was coming down.

And I really feel like I heard a couple of things I heard like a deep, um, deep sense of longing in some of those songs.

And I also heard sheer joy, and they weren't exclusive from one another.

Like in the moments of longing.

I still heard joy because it felt like I heard you doing what you wanted to do, right in my eye, On to something?

Um, I think so.

I mean, that's that's kind of what I hear when I listened to it.

And I think that's what um, that's what I have loved about the record so much is that I think some of my most positive moments have been listening to some of the satyr songs.

And I think this moments where, um, you know, you get to some of the like, most emotional moments on the album, and to me, they feel quite uplifting.

Um, especially stiff, like fine line, um, pretty sad song.

And then, ah, you know, I wanted that end to kind of be very It just feels quite optimistic to May, I think.

And, uh, you know, just yeah, it feels quite like positive.

And, um, it kind of felt like the perfect way to finish the record.

So yeah, I'm I'm pleased.

You kind of.

I got that from it, I guess.

But I think I think when you write sad songs, you can gain a lot from them.

I don't think you know sometimes that it's just a simple is then being a good outlet to kind of get something out.

Um, and it's nice sometimes to kind of wrap a feeling up in, like, a little three and 1/2 minute package.

And it doesn't mean that you have to kind of wallow in it.

Could be like, Okay.

And then you gain something from it.

You know, you get a song from it and you can turn an experience that isn't necessarily that positive into a positive one, and you can learn from it.

And, um, I think that's kind of what's exciting about music, you know, just simply processing.

Yeah, hard things.

Yeah, and yeah, it's almost therapeutic.

In a way.

Yeah, Yeah, I feel like it's a, um it's difficult to be as honest with any person as you can be like with an instrument if you just, you know, sitting and running with a guitar or piano or something.

And, um, it's a good times, even if it doesn't end up being the song.

Just saying something out loud Couldn't be nice to kind of get that out.

Um, so, yeah, I definitely find writing like incredibly therapeutic you.

He reminds me sometimes I go toe sometimes I go to favorite B, and I feel like all I did was talk, right?

I didn't hear anything back, right.

And I realized that that is the point, that itself a beautiful thing.

You know, I really did it feel Did it feel different than making the 1st 1 the first saloon?

Yeah, it felt very different.

Um, the blood pressure felt I'd say, Yeah, I think less pressure, but more, more.

Just that I put less pressure on myself.

I think, um, I felt like, um I mean, first of all, it was much longer.

Um, and it was a lot more frustrating, and it was probably more difficult overall, Um, first, I think, uh, the 2nd 1 of the way in terms of the actual, like finishing it and everything.

But I think I think each moment, when when you get to those things where you know, you're making something that you really care about.

Um, sometimes it's nice, because as soon as you come out the other side of the difficult section the frustrating section, you're like, it's not supposed to be easy.

Um and I'd be It scared me a bit if I kind of made it happen was like, Oh, this is really easy And you know, I'm so happy with everything all of the time.

There's no questions to be asked about anything.

I wouldn't trust it, right?

Exactly.

So I'd say the main difference was I think when I listened back to the first album now and when I think back to making it was I think I worried a lot just about getting it wrong.

I think when I listen to, I can hear places where I was trying really hard not to get it wrong.

And it feels a little like playing it safe a little bit.

What is getting it wrong?

Me, I don't know.

I mean, I think that's one of the things that I put very much on myself because, you know, this isn't does not really a right and a wrong in music, and that's what's exciting about it.

But it's also really scary cause sometimes you don't you don't have that light is that's right.

This is wrong.

It doesn't really exist.

Like science, right where you know you get doesn't get an answer on this man was blowing.

Yeah, um but I think when I listen to it.

And I loved the first album.

Um, but I think when I listened to, it kind of feels like I was almost at bowling with sides up a little bit.

And I feel like when it came to making this album, I took those bumpers down and it just felt so much more free and joyous.

And I just, like, had a better time.

And I was happier experimenting, and it felt more about, like, what feels good and what makes me excited to make stuff.

And there was no there wasn't really any point until, like, I've never made a record.

I'm in, like, OK, what with singles and what other songs that people are gonna hear and what we're gonna put out first.

And we kind of finish the album, and then you go, Okay, Okay.

What comes first?

And how do you kind of display this album in the best way?

I guess rather than okay, we've got, like, the single that's gonna be played and wield a video for this one.

And now we, like, fill in the gaps, helped everybody likes it, and, um I mean, that's really nice for May and I'm lucky, you know that I work with people who allow me to do that.

Um, but it it kind of it just makes the process, like, so much more exciting to me.

Um, but it also means that, like every song camps, there's no, you know, it's just about the whole thing.

We can't put one out and go, Okay, That's going, Yeah, whatever about everything.

Yeah, exactly.

One thing that was on my mind when I was listening to the record regarding all this And of course, your past and your your history is it was on my mind while I was listening to it and I was reading about you.

You know, when I was getting ready to talk to you and I read this the Rolling Stone article about you, which was lovely and one of the things that said was it quoted this David Bowie thing, you know, never played to the gallery.

I tracked down the cliff and I watched it last night, and it's good, Yeah, and it's something he says later.

That really actually stopped with me, and I wrote it down here.

He said, I think it's terribly dangerous for an artist to fulfill other people's expectations.

How have you found?

Um I think I mean, I think it's so true.

I think you're you're just I mean, I I wish I could just say that the whole clip quote and pretend it was my own.

I think so.

Perfect.

You can.

I think you'd get away.

It's, um I just think like if you're first of all, if if you're gonna make something that you don't like, If you're just trying police people than I think the worst thing that can happen is it doesn't go well.

And you just regret the fact that you didn't make what you wanted to make.

The best thing that can happen is it goes really well, and part of you probably still regrets not making what you wanted to make.

And I think that was a part, a little bit of this stuff.

This album where because the first, the first album, wasn't necessarily a radio record.

It was part of me where I felt like a little bit of pressure.

I wanted to make like, a big album, and I wanted it to be, you know, successful and ordered it to work.

And, um, I think I was I was trying to do that for, you know, a couple weeks, and, uh, I wasn't really happy with any of the music I was making.

It was like getting close sometimes, But it just felt like I was trying to force it, and it kind of felt like, Oh, yeah, this song, you know, there was a couple songs that was one in particular.

It was like a big turning point to make.

We wrote this song and everyone's really excited about, and it was like, This feels like a really big song.

And then I came to play it to someone, and I was like, cringing about playing it someone, and I was like, That's not how you're supposed to feel.

We're a good sign for your music to people.

Um, and then my friend Tyler, who I work with, I just said, You know, we were talking about these albums that I wanted to make in the future and what they would sound like, and and he just said, You just have to make the album that you want to make right now, and that was a big turning point and I ended up making the album I wanted to make when, when it just wasn't about trying to make what people like.

And I think you can make a bad song and you could make a bad album.

You could make stuff that people don't like, but they'll still they still believe in you as long as it's authentic.

And I think the moment that people go do you know I'm kind of done with this, I don't know, supports anymore is when you're faking it.

And I You can't really blame people for that.

Like if there was a nice I loved and I went to a show, I felt like the music they were making wasn't what they wanted to make.

It wasn't them, and they didn't really like it that much themselves, you could tell, had probably still going.

Yeah, you can tell.

You can tell that you could tell us somewhere else.

Um, so I've just I just look, I can only speak from personal experience and I can look it songs and be like I've always I've always made my worst music when I'm trying the hardest know and when it look feels a little bit too easy and feels a bit safe.

And and it's just like, Oh, yeah, this is what people want and I write and I just don't like it and just usually don't like it.

If you know on bits, know about you know, I don't mean to be like, Oh, I want to make stuff that like it's so confusing and, you know it's just a I just only really know.

I think a lot of the time when people are making music or they work in music they think that everyone who worked in music kind of operate on this, like, higher level of listening to fans.

And, you know, sometimes people say like, Oh, I don't know if people are gonna get it And I don't know if people understand it and and I think ultimately, like everyone who works at music, it just fans.

I come to defend of music, gets to make some, so I kind of try and make it from that perspective, try and write music as a fan of music and, um and that's kind of I just don't really know how to do it.

I guess I think I think they're gonna They're gonna take me out with a laser if I don't stop soon.

But I have one more, if that's what you do.

Couple.

Yeah.

You sure?

Yeah.

Grant, it was back to that boat.

Be quote.

You know, one of the other things that he said was always remember that the reason you started making music was to understand more of yourself.

What?

Have you understood more of yourself through music?

Um, I'd say I'd say this album is, uh will be a time of my life that I will look back on, Um, as I quite a pivotal moment for me personally, I think probably forever.

Um, I think, like I just went through, like, a big moment of self reflection.

I partly maybe didn't have time toe do properly before and kind of accepting a lot of things well, but it was busy, right?

Because you were in the bay.

Yeah, and then you're out of the band.

And it was just like, a lot of stuff.

Kind of after each other.

And And I think with this one after touring with the first album, um, I just felt very like, accepted by the crowd and, you know, I think when you're doing shows and stuff is part of the band, Um, people have come even with shells that people have come to see a band and it never he never really feels like they're there for you because they're not that to see Abend.

So I think when I went out and started doing shows on my own, I was kind of just amazed the people were coming to see me And, um, that felt like, Oh, I just need to d'oh But I want to do And they want to see me be myself and and you must do something to you Yeah, and it's It's like it's really amazing connection.

It's like a special thing that you share with the people who come every night because it's ah, you know, it's kind of one of those things, like when you actually think about what coming to a show means and you think about what it means when I go to a show that you you get the ticket and you go on, you have to park and all you have to take the train and then you have to go and then you have to get home and, baby, yeah, it's like it's a lot of things like it means a lot for people to kind of take a night out to go to go to show.

And, um and that's like, amazing.

And it's the biggest, uh, compliment.

I think someone compay you is is going to a shelter you're playing.

And, um, you know, it's because you think about everyone in the room and no, everybody stood at the front.

No, everybody has, like, the most amazing view that some people are at the back and on they still come.

And I think that's like a really beautiful thing.