Good evening, ladies and gentlemen.

I am dominant off dental focus.

Thank you very much for joining me this evening for the dental focus.

Webinar on today's oval.

This evening is a very special one.

As I am drawing for joining with the money for dentist group s O.

I have special guests.

Richard Lishman, who is in the parlor off my dentist on Buliok, who is a opponent or the confident is uncharted tax advisor.

Both are off screen at the moment, but they will be coming in her short.

It's a join me on dhe.

Today's women are a CZ you would have seen is about I offer if I for associates, we're gonna be discussing quite a few areas.

I've got to race interesting individuals who are specialists in the financial field.

Andre will be talking about seven essential tips to manage the risk off yourself employment status.

So we're going into a little bit of the history of while I thought if I was come about what it means for the associates out there and how well the criteria around it, I committed gated and other other bits of free advice.

If they would have to give out.

We also have a couple of interesting dental focus announcements.

So if you stay tuned, you'll hear a little bit more about a recent march of ours, which is a gentle focus on.

We also have something very exclusive for dental focus clients.

Which again, as I said, I'll be showing at the end of this weapon off.

So introducing a couple of very unique individual Thanks.

Good.

I don't know if I can still be that I am still here.

Yeah, thanks.

Good evening, everybody.

Thank you for joining us this evening.

So what I like to do just before we kick off into things I mean, we're gonna be covering a couple of different areas, but, you know, you guys were finding the central vantage device for dental associates Central tax advice on dhe.

I'll be talking about attracted by patients for dental socialism.

I suppose we can all kind of cover that bit, but didn't want to show off for the people out there that don't necessarily know you very well.

Um, just a little bit more about what you guys do in terms of Web site or where they can find you So go the money for dentists website, which is, as it is, money for dentists dot com.

And, yeah, we've been winning over 20 years on one of the founding partners.

Bean been interesting all the time.

We have specialized.

Advising dentists exclusively dentist in their families for that time were independent.

It also interesting work from So the tax prom in a swell A CZ investments Pensions N hs analyses consultancy.

Interesting.

Yeah, definitely on.

Yes.

So I had the accountants four dentists on that said, out of the group that looks, after all, the tax compliance tax planning for dental associates practice owners on way.

We've been working within the sector while I've been in the sector for the last 20 over 20 years.

1994 qualified a CZ group of us within within the practice that that deal only with dentists suddenly real niche area on some really good expertise way all worked very, very closely together.

You know, Richard and I add up the money for dentists and accountants.

For then, it's his father's business way also worked closely with the lawyers for dentists on practices dentists.

So So it's a really good way of working very closely is a tight knit team living at your complete service told potential clients won't stop short dentist message from the profession says Yeah, well, yeah, Com is really good because yes, because you say you send the other areas to what you just It went really well because time you've both been speaking just pages todo everything that.

Yeah, exactly.

But we'll go back to think so.

Um, is it today?

We're gonna talk about five.

Spirit the new things.

So I was just getting into it.

What is it for?

Those individuals out there watching at the moment?

What are we dealing with?

What is this beast?

Sorry, it's the whole pie are 35.

It's all based around.

Are you Are you employed or are you self employed on?

Actually, more recently, there's another status which which falls in between employees and self employed.

And that's the status off work up so on.

And that's that's, um, that's go back in the last couple of years.

But in a nutshell, I are 35.

It's being around the last 20 years.

April 1999 was when it was first proposals came out on the problem.

The problem.

Waas that many in the i t industry.

A lot of a lot of from I T consultants were employed by large Corporates one day on there as employees going their tax deducted your national insurance.

And then the next day they were setting up a limited company.

I go back to work for the same employer of There's a limited company on what that will do is it just meant that they rate Thio have lots of all tax savings.

So you know they have family members on the shareholders in the company that paid themselves a low salary.

They're putting their is expenses through the company.

There's no national insurance on dividends, so they were able to to manage and mitigate the tax liabilities a lot more than they rarely t directly employed.

Right?

So a long time hater, Marcie, many What's going on here way don't like what you're doing here, because this is This is a massive amount of tax being lost.

So So So.

They then introduced this concept of I R 35 and on the A moi CE to wet, where contractors were operated through what's called personal service companies limited companies where contractors were operating through personal service companies.

HMRC would take what was supposed to take a close look as to where they really employees rather than self employed right on.

If they were deemed to be employees, then the person service company would need to operate P A y national insurance.

All, uh, that that was doing the real thrust of it on that continues to be distrusted by off five say, And now some of some of the challenges that HMRC have waas resources so watched.

I are 35 was formally introduced in 2000.

Pension Lassie just didn't have enough results to you two to enforce it.

So, you know, 10 years went by.

Hardly any tax enquiries on i.

R 35 um, personal service company directors were it was up to them to self report.

There was a self policing exercise.

And given that opportunity to self police what what do you want?

Your Ugo, you still get the O on dhe around a big industry developed to work around with the I R.

35.

So you know it's been around for 20 years.

The 1st 10 years it's a lot of noise, but not really a great deal of action.

No.

So some of the indicators off that HMRC would be looking at Thio for a person service companies to fall within the regime off things like, you know, you know, as an employee you'd be you'd be supervised directly by the employer and telling you what to do.

They'd be controlling what?

You what you were doing.

So these are these are the areas that would look at it, right?

If you're unemployed, you got control substitution.

You know, if I was an employee, I thio substitute something else turned into something else.

Has employees.

I couldn't do that.

So is, does the person service company have a writer substitution, right?

And do they actually send other people to do the work?

You know?

Are they really in business?

And you know, the kind of things that we're looking at all.

You know that if you are really in business, you have a web site.

You're probably my dental focus.

Great.

You have You have lots of different clients.

Busy starts, business letterheads, advertising.

You have employers liability insurance.

Where where?

There's family members employed by a company.

So So who's equipment you're using?

Is there any risk?

Really, is a really risk in the way that you're working.

So So these are the kind of tests that hmrc would look at you so far.

You know, I haven't seen one case in the last 20 years that I've bean in industry, where he hmrc have bean that successful in applying the aisle 35 tests so that they are still struggling Tiu Tiu to implement those rules.

Well, there was that particular case in Chattanooga.

Yeah, where there was a couple of European dentists that came across to the UK, working for course, and based on their tax position in Europe, they were under the impression when they joined the culprit in the UK that they were important.

And then when they actually left that particular practice, they went to tribunal because they haven't paid any tax.

Okay, I went to the course on Dhe, basically, at the course, I'm in favor off the and the individuals, then the culprit have to pay the back taxes and national shoes, which was obviously a considerable, So yeah, they get them.

And when you get cases like this will become more and more frequent, unfortunately, and with the introduction of auto enrollment, pensions and which is separate this.

But you've got to remember that the questions for an individual, whether they should or shouldn't be enrolled into the scheme on related to if they're important, seven board.

It's if they have used today staff room.

If they are restricted on how much holiday that he could take each working hours things that that which is very, very similar to what actually pizza boxes of most.

So she's actually in those circumstances.

They face base dentists.

Think salt traders thing with I are fatal Fires doesn't only apply Thio whether it's an internal injury, so cute fuel.

If the associates operating through a limited company, uh, then then I'll 35 can apply it.

If you're self employed, then you won't.

You won't get caught my eye or 35.

But there's another challenge where, which is exactly what happened in this particular case with the European dentist, whether what self employed on the courts held that they were actually, I think the way they were working classes, employees without that's where wth e practice thought it would be p a short.

Generally, if you're so trade self important associate, then I'll 35 probably won't.

Where would be a risk for years Anywheres elected company or another in Tunisia, re partnership foreign agents or something like that?

Um, I actually want one thing that HMRC, even in their own manuals, do say, Is that?

Is that where your your associate contract for those, all those beady a contract?

What?

One thing that it goes on to say that what do you have a B D?

A contract where in terms of saying you need to be and you need to be following that contract as well.

So what's in writing on what actually happens?

Need to be the same.

So where's mediated contract in place on your following those terms, The hatred Marcie manuals say that you are self employed.

I mean, you won't get tasked as an employee, so that's in the manuals.

But they're all some recent cases.

Where you, um, Pimlico plumbers?

What else was the absently Hermes, where there was a bit of 1/2 way halfway house where they were genuinely self employed, but wth the employment tribunals found that they were clusters.

Workers have workers rights.

So Pimlico Plumbers, for instance, and having thio make payments for holiday pay Sastri sick pay auto enrollment.

You know there was rights too, You know, stashing sick pain returned to pay.

So if you so it's possible to be a worker.

Um, be self employed.

But, you know, still still get to your practice ona for your paints that you normally get a zoo employees.

Actually, that's more of a risk for the practice.

Sonia's.

I haven't come across any cases yet where practices be challenged vayan employment tribunals for workers rights.

But I think that something will possibly be seeing more off over the coming years.

Yeah, Yeah, it was gonna ask, Do you think there's a crackdown?

Dental associates in Gaza fight while at least as he said, they might be.

What?

They were gonna be something coming very soon, but it certainly lacked.

Last year, HMRC will right into two associates.

I wanted to look at their working arrangement with practice on.

That wouldn't necessarily be.

Look at the work is right.

What it would have done is because if you're self employed, anything for your tax liability is probably going to be about safe room.

You might get to put some extra costs through tax deductible costs if you're self important.

But generally the tax liability will be about the same.

What HMRC will be looking to do, is they.

If you didn't have a big erased our contract, the only word following terms of the contract, then HMRC would like to go to the implore but to the practice owner and say all wrong.

All of these self employees associates are actually employees, so we would like employers, not insurance on all the payments that were made to whom for 30 points.

So So that's really an avenue that HMRC has being going down.

Definitely last year, those electors that went out.

I don't know what the outcome of those has been yet, but that you associate death on the radio.

Okay, okay.

On the industry's on radio.

Yeah, but the principal sounded happy taking a hit for almost 40%.

Well, of course, that we're seeing that So shoots getting paid 35%.

Um, where's the extra?

The full team Second, generally, it's not a principle.

It's unfortunate.

Socially.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

So over would be in their best interest to be a contract, Will.

You're self employed.

Well, you gotta look even little things around.

So, you know, if you are self employed, make sure you are following the terms of that.