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  • WE WANT TO RATCHET THAT UP.

  • MARIA: .

  • WE WANT TO BRING IN GROVER

  • NORCHRIS.

  • THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE L.

  • YOU'RE HEARING THE CONVERSATION.

  • WEIGH IN HERE.

  • THE PRESIDENT IS WEIGHING

  • OPTIONS TO SPUR THE ECONOMY LIKE

  • POTENTIAL CAPITAL GAINS TAX,

  • LIKE A POTENTIAL PAYROLL TAX.

  • WHAT'S YOUR VIEW.

  • >> HE PUT TWO THINGS ON THE

  • TABLE.

  • THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THEM IS

  • THAT INDEXING CAPITAL GAINS SO

  • YOU DON'T TAX INFLATION IN

  • CAPITAL GAINS CAN BE DONE

  • UNILATERALLY BY THE PRESIDENT.

  • THE SUPREME COURT RULED THAT IN

  • 120002.

  • SO -- 2002.

  • SO THAT'S NO LONGER A LEGAL

  • QUESTION.

  • THE PRESIDENT SAID YESTERDAY I

  • CAN DO THIS MYSELF.

  • THE TREASURY SECRETARY COULD DO

  • THAT.

  • THE ADVANTAGE THERE IS ONCE YOU

  • DO IT, HALF OF AMERICANS PLUS

  • OWN HOME, HALF OF AMERICANS PLUS

  • ARE IN THE STOCK MARKET.

  • YOU CAN'T ARGUE THIS IS A TAX

  • CUT FOR THE 1%.

  • IT'S A TAX CUT FOR EVERYBODY

  • OVER 55 WHO HAS HELD HOMES AND

  • HOUSES AND AN IMMEDIATE TAX CUT,

  • VERY QUICKLY, BENEFITS ANYONE

  • WHO IS 2 A 5 AND STARTING THEIR

  • LIFE BECAUSE THEIR ASSETS ARE

  • WORTH MORE.

  • IF YOU GO WITH A TAX CUT ON

  • SOCIAL SECURITY AS A SUGGESTION,

  • THE DEMOCRATS IMMEDIATELY GO

  • SURE, WE'LL PAY FOR IT BY

  • RAISING THE BUSINESS TAX, THROW

  • IT RIGHT BACK.

  • SO BECAUSE NANCY PELOSI HAS TO

  • AGREE TO ANY CHANGE IN THE

  • SOCIAL SECURITY TAX AND THE

  • DEMOCRATS HAVE NEVER DONE THAT

  • WHEN THEY HAD THE POWER TO DO

  • IT, THEY WOULD JUST PLAY

  • POLITICS WITH IT.

  • THE PRESIDENT WILL LIKELY GO

  • WITH THE THING WHERE THE

  • INFLATION INDEXATION -- HE CAN

  • DO THAT BY HIMSELF WITHOUT NANCY

  • PELOSI'S PERMISSION.

  • >> HEY, GROVER, STEVE MOORE

  • HERE.

  • GREAT TO SEE YOU.

  • >> HI, STEVE.

  • >> LOOK, YOU SOUND VERY

  • CONFIDENT THAT THE PRESIDENT HAS

  • THE UNILATERAL AUTHORITY TO DO

  • THIS AND HE HAS THE LEGAL --

  • THAT SEEMS TO BE AN OPEN

  • QUESTION.

  • I WANT TO DIG IN, GET YOUR

  • REACTION TO -- BECAUSE YOU SEEM

  • LIKE IT'S AN OPEN AND SHUT DEAL

  • THAT HE CAN DO THIS.

  • I KNOW THE DEMOCRATS WOULD

  • PROBABLY CHALLENGE THAT.

  • SO THAT NUMBER ONE.

  • NUMBER TWO, WHAT I LIKE ABOUT

  • THAT IDEA OF INDEXING CAPITAL

  • GAINS TAX AND TELL ME IF I'M

  • WRONG ABOUT THIS IS YOU GET AN

  • UNLOCKING EFFECT.

  • NOW PEOPLE COULD SELL THEIR

  • STOCKS AND MOVE INTO YOU NEW

  • COMPANIES AND NEW INVESTMENT

  • OPPORTUNITIES.

  • WHAT IS YOUR REACTION TO THAT.

  • MARIA: BY THE WAY, BEFORE YOU

  • GET THERE, YOU SAY COULD HE DO

  • IT, DON'T FORGET, OBAMA INDICT.

  • THE PAYROLL TAX WAS CUT UNDER

  • THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION IN 2011

  • AND 2012 TO 4.2%, REDUCING TAXES

  • BY MORE THAN $100 BILLION EACH

  • YEAR.

  • IT WAS ENACTED TO ENCOURAGE MORE

  • CONSUMER SPENDING.

  • >> THE QUESTION IS CAN THE

  • PRESIDENT DO IT WITHOUT

  • CONGRESSIONAL APPROVAL.

  • THAT'S THE ISSUE ON THE TABLE.

  • >> LET'S TAKE THAT IN THE ORDER

  • IN WITH WHICH YOU ASKED.

  • ONE, CAN THE PRESIDENT DO IT.

  • THERE WAS A DEBATE ON THIS IN

  • 1992 AND SOME SERIOUS LAWYERS

  • SAID ABSOLUTELY -- LIKE CHUCK

  • COOPER, OTHERS SAID WE'RE NOT SO

  • SURE.

  • SINCE THEN THERE WAS A SUPREME

  • COURT DECISION IN 2002 WHICH

  • ANSWERED THE ONLY QUESTION

  • BEFORE, IS COST AN UNAMBIGUOUS

  • TERM THAT AN AGENCY CANNOT

  • ADJUST.

  • THEY SAY IT COULD BE HISTORIC

  • COST, WHAT DID YOU PAY FOURTH,

  • REAL

  • FOAL

  • FORL

  • FOR IT,REAL OF COST, COST PLUS

  • INFLATION, AND REPLACEMENT COST.

  • THERE ARE MANY WAYS TO DECIDE

  • WHICH ONE TO USE.

  • THE SUPREME COURT SMACKED AWAY

  • HARD ANY DEBATE.

  • SOME PEOPLE THINK THE COURTS, A

  • MORE CONSERVATIVE COURT MIGHT

  • WANT TO REDUCE THE ABILITY OF

  • AGENCIES TO MAKE THOSE

  • DECISIONS.

  • A MONTH AGO WE HAD A DECISION

  • THAT SAID NOPE, WE'RE NOT DOING

  • THAT.

  • SO TWO SUPREME COURT DECISIONS

  • COME IN THAT SAY AGENCIES HAVE

  • THIS AUTHORITY.

  • THEY HAVE THIS AND COST

  • SPECIFICALLY IS NOT AN

  • UNAMBIGUOUS TERM.

  • THAT'S WHY WE CAN SAY WITH

  • CLARITY THAT THEY'LL POLITICALLY

  • WINE

  • PLNE

  • PLIGHTWHINE ABOUT IT BUT NOT HAV

  • PLIGHTWHINE ABOUT IT BUT NOT HAE

  • SUCCESS.

  • THE BIG BENEFIT RIGHT AWAY IS

  • ONE CEO, FORTUNE 500 CEO TOLD ME

  • THERE'S $7 TRILLION OF STICKY

  • CAPITAL WHICH IS LAND,

  • BUILDINGS, OTHER COMPANIES THAT

  • CORPORATIONS ALONE, NEVER MIND

  • INDIVIDUALS WHO OWN HOMES AND

  • STOCKS BUT CORPORATIONS OWN

  • $7 TRILLION OF STICKY CAPITAL

  • MUCH OF WHICH WOULD BE SOLD.

  • IN FACT, ALMOST ALL OF WHICH

  • WOULD BE SOLD WHEN YOU'RE

  • LOOKING AT THINGS THAT ARE FIVE,

  • 10, 20, A 50 YEARS OLD.

  • THAT WOULD RAISE A LOT OF

  • REVENUE IN A SHORT PERIOD OF

  • TIME AND TAKE TRILLIONS OF

  • DOLLARS AND REDIRECT IT TO

  • HIGHER AND BETTER USE.

  • IT'S DEREGULATION FOR PAST

  • PURCHASES OF ASSETS AND IT

  • RAISES THE VALUE OF ALL ASSETS

  • IN THE UNITED STATES NOW GOING

  • FORWARD.

  • THE ONE COMPANY THAT CALLED ME

  • ABOUT THIS EARLIEST IS AMERICANS

  • FOR TAX REFORM, THE GROUP

  • STARTED TALKING TO EVERYBODY IN

  • THE WHITE HOUSE.

  • EVERYBODY IN THE WHITE HOUSE IS

  • FOR IT AND UNDERSTANDS IT.

  • THAT'S NOT A BAD PLACE TO START,

  • BEGINNING WITH THE PRESIDENT.

  • THEY KNOW PEOPLE EMPTY CLOSETS

  • AND ATTICS OF ALL OF THIS

  • BASEBALL CARDS AND ART WORK THAT

  • THEY'VE HELD ONTO BECAUSE OF THE

  • TAX ON INFLATION.

  • >> IS EVEN STEVEN MNUCHIN IN

  • FAVOR OF THIS.

  • I HEARD IN THE TREASURY THERE'S

  • DOUBTS ABOUT THIS.

  • >> THERE'S ALWAYS MNUCHINS IN

  • THE TREASURY THEY SAY IT MAY NOT

  • WORK FOR THEM.

  • HE SAID I'D LIKE CONGRESS TO DO

  • IT BUT I MAY HAVE TO DO IT

  • MYSELF.

  • AND HE HAS TOLD ME

  • AND HE HAS TOLD PEOPLE THAT HE

  • KNOWS HE DOES HAVE THE

  • AUTHORITY.

  • AGAIN, IT'S CLEAR IN LEGAL

  • TERMS.

  • MARIA: DID YOU SAY THERE'S

  • ALWAYS MUNCH KINS IN THE WHITE

  • HOUSE?

  • >> I'M SORRY, MUNCHKINS FROM THE

  • WIZARD OF OZ, NOT MNUCHIN.

  • MARIA: THAT'S WHAT I THOUGHT.

  • MUNCHKINS.

  • YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT MNUCHIN.

  • >> THE MUNCHKINS ARE BAD ON IT.

  • MARIA: WHAT'S YOUR STANCE ON

  • THE ECONOMY?

  • DO YOU SEE A RECESSION ON THE

  • HORIZON.

  • IT'S GOT ME BAFFLED.

  • I THOUGHT THINGS WERE GOING

  • REALLY WELL.

  • >> THINGS ARE GOING MUCH BETTER

  • THAN THEY WERE.

  • WE WERE GROWING AT 3%.

  • IT'S NOW MOVED TOWARDS 2%.

  • THAT'S NOT A RECESSION.

  • RECESSION IS LESS THAN ZERO.

  • IT IS SLOW GROWTH, SLOWER GROWTH

  • THAN THE ECONOMY DESERVES.

  • THERE'S OBVIOUSLY A LOT OF

  • CONCERN ABOUT THE TRADE WAR WITH

  • CHINA AND WITH TARIFFS.

  • TARIFFS ARE A TAX ON THE

  • AMERICAN CONSUMER AND THEY HURT

  • THE ECONOMY AND THEY TELL EVERY

  • PRODUCER, WELL, YOU DON'T KNOW

  • WHETHER TO INVEST TODAY OR NOT

  • BECAUSE YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT

  • PRICES WILL BE AND YOU DON'T

  • KNOW WHAT'S HAPPENING BECAUSE OF

  • ALL OF THE UNCERTAINTY.

  • THAT'S WHAT'S SPOOKING BUSINESS

  • INVESTMENT.

  • AS SOON AS THAT GETS SETTLED, WE

  • COME TO SOME AGREEMENT WITH

  • CHINA AND HOPEFULLY WITH THE

  • EUROPEANS, THAT I THINK YOU'LL

  • SEE THE ECONOMY TAKE OFF BECAUSE

  • THE FUNDAMENTALS ARE QUITE

  • STRONG BUT WHY NOT TAKE

  • ADVANTAGE OF THE LEFT CLAIMING

  • THAT THE ECONOMY'S SLOWING TO

  • PLAY THE CARD OF INDEXING

  • CAPITAL GAINS SO WE NO LONGER

  • TAX INFLATION.

  • I SAY LET'S TAKE THOSE MARBLES

  • OFF THE TABLE AND THANK THE

  • DEMOCRATS FOR THE HYSTERICS

  • ABOUT HOW WELL THE ECONOMY'S

  • DOING.

  • >> GROVER, IT'S VERONICA FROM

  • WALL STREET JOURNAL.

  • IF YOU DO THESE MOVES NOW,

  • THOUGH, DOES THIS LEAVE YOU WITH

  • A LACK OF FIRE POWER WHEN THINGS

  • ARE ACTUALLY REALLY BAD?

  • YOU NEED THEM.

  • >> WELL, YOU CAN ALWAYS DO MORE

  • TAX CUTS IN THE FUTURE.

  • YOU COULD ALWAYS WORK WITH THE

  • FED TO DO A BETTER JOB.

  • I WOULD START NOW BECAUSE IT

  • TAKES A WHILE FOR PEOPLE TO SELL

  • A $50 MILLION BUILDING IN

  • CHICAGO.

  • THAT P DOESN'T HAPPEN IN TWO

  • MONTHS.

  • BUT I THINK YOU'LL SEE PEOPLE