thought that we should report it, but decided not to?

在座有多少人，曾經看到某件事，

And not that I need to see a show of hands,

認為應該要舉報， 卻決定不要這麼做？

but I'm sure this has happened to someone in this room before.

我並不需要看到大家舉手，

In fact, when this question was asked to a group of employees,

只是我相信在座有很多人 都有過這樣的經驗。

46 percent of them responded by saying that they had seen something

事實上，當一群員工 被問到這個問題時，

and decided not to report it.

46% 的人回答他們 曾經看到某件事，

So if you raised your hand, or quietly raised your hand,

卻決定不要舉報。

don't feel bad, you're not alone.

所以如果你剛剛有舉手， 或是在心中默默舉手，

This message of if you see something to say something

不要覺得難過， 並非只有你一個人如此。

is really all around us.

這個「如果你看見了什麼， 說出來」的訊息，

Even when driving down the highway, you see billboards like this,

其實在我們身邊隨處可見。

encouraging us to report crime without revealing ourselves.

即使在高速公路上開車， 也會看到這樣的廣告牌，

But I still feel like a lot of us are really uncomfortable

鼓勵我們在不揭露 自己身分的情況下舉報犯罪，

coming forward in the name of the truth.

但我仍然覺得，大部分人還是無法

I'm an accounting professor, and I do fraud research.

很自在地以真相之名站出來。

And in my class, I encourage my students to come forward with information

我是會計學教授，我研究詐欺。

if they see it.

在我的課堂上，我會鼓勵我的學生

Or in other words, encouraging my students to become whistle-blowers.

如果有看到什麼資訊， 要站出來揭發。

But if I'm being completely honest with myself,

或是，換句話說， 鼓勵我的學生當舉報者。

I am really conflicted with this message that I'm sending to my students.

但如果要我對自己完全誠實，

And here's why.

我其實對於我傳達給學生的 這個訊息感到很矛盾。

Whistle-blowers are under attack.

原因如下。

Headline after headline shows us this.

舉報者受到攻擊。

Many people choose not to become whistle-blowers

一則又一則的頭條， 讓我們很清楚這一點。

due to the fear of retaliation.

許多人選擇不要當舉報者，

From demotions to death threats,

因為害怕被報復。

to job loss --

從降職、死亡威脅，

perpetual job loss.

到失去工作——

Choosing to become a whistle-blower is an uphill battle.

永遠失去工作。

Their loyalty becomes into question.

選擇當舉報者等於 在打一場艱難的仗。

Their motives, their trustworthiness.

他們的忠誠度成了問題。

So how can I, as a professor who really cares about her students

他們的動機、他們的可信度。

encourage them to become whistle-blowers,

所以，我身為一個真的 很關心自己學生的教授，

when I know how the world truly feels about them?

我明明知道舉報者會被如何看待，

So, one day I was getting ready for my annual whistle-blower lecture

怎麼還能鼓勵學生去當舉報者？

with my students.

所以，有一天，我正在準備 每年要對我學生做的舉報者演講。

And I was working on an article for "Forbes,"

我在為「富比士」 寫一篇文章，標題是

entitled "Wells Fargo and Millennial Whistle-blowing.

「富國銀行集團及千禧世代舉報？ 我們要告訴他們什麼？」

What Do We Tell Them?"

我在寫這篇文章時， 讀到了一個案例，

And as I was working on this piece and reading about the case,

讓我震怒。

I became outraged.

讓我生氣的是我得知

And what made me angry was when I came to the fact and realized

試圖舉報的員工

that the employees that tried to whistle-blow

真的被開除了。

were actually fired.

這件事真的讓我去思考 我一直在給我的學生的訊息。

And it really made me think

它讓我去思考：如果我的學生是

about the message that I was sharing with my students.

富國銀行集團的員工呢？

And it made me think: What if my students had been Wells Fargo employees?

一方面，如果他們舉報，

On the one hand, if they whistle-blew, they would have gotten fired.

他們就會被開除。

But on the other hand,

但另一方面，

if they didn't report the frauds that they knew,

如果他們不舉報他們知道的詐欺，

the way current regulation is written,

依據目前的規定，

employees are held responsible

員工知情不報

if they knew something and didn't report it.

是需要負責的。

So criminal prosecution is a real option.

所以受到刑事訴訟真的 是其中一個可能性。

What's a person supposed to do with those type of odds?

在這種勝算很低的 情況下，該怎麼做？

I of all people know the valuable contributions

所有人當中，我最清楚

that whistle-blowers make.

舉報者做出的貢獻是多麼有價值。

In fact, most frauds are discovered by them.

事實上，大部分的詐欺 都是由舉報者發現的。

Forty two percent of frauds are discovered by a whistle-blower

42% 的詐欺是舉報者發現的，

in comparison to other methods,

勝過其他的揭發方式，

like measurement review and external audit.

如測量評估和外部稽核。

And when you think about some of the more classic

當你想想一些比較經典 或歷史上的詐欺案例，

or historical fraud cases,

都是和舉報者脫不了關係。

it always is around a whistle-blower.

想想水門案——由舉報者發現。

Think Watergate -- discovered by a whistle-blower.

想想安隆案——由舉報者發現。

Think Enron -- discovered by a whistle-blower.

還有，誰能忘得了伯納·馬多夫案？

And who can forget about Bernard Madoff, discovered by a whistle-blower?

也是由舉報者發現。

It takes a tremendous amount of courage to come forward in the name of the truth.

一個人需要有非常大的勇氣，

But when we think about the term whistle-blower,

才能以真相之名挺身而出。

we often think of some very descriptive words:

但當我們想到舉報者這個詞時，

rat,

我們通常會聯想到一些 非常描述性的字眼：

snake,

鼠輩、

traitor,

蛇（陰險的人）、

tattletale, weasel.

叛徒、

And those are the nice words, the ones I can say from the stage.

搬弄是非的人、黃鼠狼。

And so when I'm not in class,

那些還算是好的字眼， 是我能在台上說出來的。

I go around the country and I interview white-collar felons,

所以，當我不在課堂上時， 我會全國到處跑，

whistle-blowers and victims of fraud.

訪問詐欺案的白領重罪犯、 舉報者，以及受害者。

Because really I'm trying to understand what makes them tick

因為我想要了解他們的動機，

and to bring those experiences back into the classroom.

並把那些經驗帶回到教室裡。

But it's my interviews with whistle-blowers that really stick with me.

但所有的訪談中， 和舉報者的訪談最讓我難忘。

And they stick with me,

我忘不了的原因是 它們讓我質疑我自己的勇氣。

because they make me question my own courage.

若給我機會，

When given the opportunity, would I actually speak up?

我真的會說出來嗎？

And so, this is a couple stories that I want to share with you.

所以，我想要和各位 分享這幾個故事。

This is Mary.

這位是瑪莉。

Mary Willingham is the whistle-blower from the University of North Carolina

瑪莉·威林漢是 教堂山北卡羅萊納大學的

at Chapel Hill, academic fraud case.

學術詐欺案的舉報者。

And Mary was a learning specialist at the university,

當時瑪莉是該大學中的學習專員，

and she worked with students, primarily student athletes.

她工作時要面對學生， 主要是學生運動員。

And what she noticed, when she was working with students,

當她在帶這些學生時，她注意到

is they were turning in term papers

學生們交給她的學期報告

that seemed well beyond their reading levels.

程度似乎遠超過他們的閱讀水準。

She started to ask a couple of questions

她開始問一些問題，

and she found out that there was a database

她發現有一個資料庫存在，

where the student athletes could retrieve papers and turn them in.

學生運動員可以從 這個資料庫取得報告來繳交。

And then she found out that some of her colleagues

接著她發現，她的一些同事

were funneling students into fake classes, just to keep them eligible to play.

幫學生安排假課程，

Now, when Mary found this out, she was outraged.

好讓他們有資格繼續參賽。

And so what she tried to do was go to her direct supervisor.

當瑪莉發現這些時，她非常生氣。

But they didn't do anything.

她試著去找她的直屬主管。

And then Mary tried to go to some internal university administrators.

但他們沒有採取行動。

And they didn't do anything.

接著，瑪莉試著去找 大學內部的一些管理者。

So, what happens when nobody listens?

他們沒有採取行動。

You blog.

所以，當沒有人肯聽你的話時， 怎麼辦？

So Mary decided to develop a blog.

你寫網誌。

Her blog went viral within 24 hours,

所以瑪莉決定開一個部落格。

and she was contacted by a reporter.

在二十四小時之內， 她的部落格被瘋傳，

Now, when she was contacted by this reporter,

一名記者去聯絡她。

her identity was known.

當她被這位記者聯絡上時，

She was exposed.

她的身分就廣為人知的了。

And when she was exposed, she received a demotion,

她已經曝光了。

death threats, over collegiate sports.

當她曝光之後，她就被降級，

Mary didn't do anything wrong. She didn't participate in the fraud.

還收到來自 大學運動聯盟的死亡威脅。

She really thought that she was giving voice

瑪莉並沒有做錯事。 她並沒有參與詐欺。

to students that were voiceless.

她真的認為她是在 為無法發聲的學生發聲。

But her loyalty was questioned.

但她的忠誠受到質疑。

Her trustworthiness and her motives.

她的可信度和她的動機。

Now, whistle-blowing doesn't always have to end

舉報不見得最後一定會都得到

in demotions or death threats.

降職或死亡威脅。

Actually, in 2002, this was the cover of "Time" magazine,

事實上，在 2002 年， 這是《時代》雜誌的封面，

where we were actually honoring three brave whistle-blowers

我們表揚了三位勇敢的舉報者，

for their decision to come forward in the name of the truth.

因為他們決定以真相之名挺身而出。

And when you look at the research,

根據研究結果，

22 percent of whistle-blowers actually report retaliation.

22% 的舉報者說 他們確實遭到報復。

So there is a huge population of people that report and are not retaliated against

所以有很多人

and that gives me hope.

舉報但沒有遭到報復，

So this is Kathe.

那讓我燃起希望。

Kathe Swanson is a retired city clerk from the city of Dixon.

這位是凱西。

And one day, Kathe was doing her job, just like she always did,

凱西·史萬森是迪克森市的 退休辦事員。

and she stumbled upon a pretty interesting case.

有一天，凱西在一如往常地工作時，

See, Kathe was at the end of the month,

她偶然發現一個很有趣的案件。

and she was doing her treasures report for the city,

那時是月底，

and typically, her boss, Rita Crundwell, gave her a list of accounts and said,

凱西在為市政府做財務報告，

"Kathe, call the bank and get these specific accounts."

通常，她的老闆瑞塔·克朗威爾 會給她一份帳戶清單，並說：

And Kathe did her job.

「凱西，打電話給銀行， 取得這些帳戶的資料。」

But this particular day,

凱西就照做。

Rita was out of town, and Kathe was busy.

但就在這一天，

She picks up the phone, she calls the bank and says, "Fax me all of the accounts."

瑞塔出城了，而凱西很忙。

And when she gets the fax, she sees that there is an account

她拿起電話，打給銀行，說： 「請把所有的帳戶的資料傳真給我。」

that has some withdrawals and deposits in it

當她拿到傳真之後， 她注意到有一個帳戶

that she did not know about.

有她不知情的提款和存款記錄。

It was an account controlled only by Rita.

這個帳戶只由瑞塔親自管理。

So Kathe looked at the information, she reported it to her direct supervisor,

所以，凱西看了那些資訊，

which was then-mayor Burke,

呈報她的直屬主管， 也就是當時的市長柏克。

and this led into a huge investigation, a six-month investigation.

此舉造成了為期 六個月的大規模調查。

Come to find out, Kathe's boss, Rita Crundwell, was embezzling money.

後來發現，凱西的老闆 瑞塔·克朗威爾一直在盜用公款。

Rita was embezzling 53 million dollars over a 20-year period,

瑞塔在二十年的期間，

and Kathe just happened to stumble upon it.

盜用了五千三百萬美金，

Kathe is a hero.

凱西只是碰巧發現了。

And actually, I had the opportunity

凱西是位英雄。

of interviewing Kathe for my documentary, "All the Queen's Horses."

其實，我的紀錄片 《女王所有的人馬》

And Kathe wasn't seeking fame.

讓我有機會訪問凱西。

In fact, she really didn't want to talk to me for a really long time,

凱西並不想要名氣。

but through strategic stalking, she ended up doing the interview.

事實上，有很長一段時間 她都不願意和我談，

(Laughter)

但透過策略性的跟蹤， 她最後還是接受了訪談。

But she was seeking fairness, not fame.

（笑聲）

And if it wasn't for Kathe,

但她追求的是公平，不是成名。

who's to say this fraud would have ever been discovered?

若不是凱西，

So, remember that "Forbes" article I was talking about,

誰敢說這件詐欺會被揭發出來？

that I was working on before my lecture?

還記得我剛說過的富比士文章嗎？

Well, I posted it and something really fantastic happened.

我演講前在寫的文章？

I started receiving emails from whistle-blowers all over the world.

我把它刊出來了， 接著發生了很棒的事。

And as I was receiving these emails and responding back to them,

我開始收到全世界 舉報者寄來的電子郵件。

there was a common theme in the message that I received,

我在收到這些電子郵件之後， 會回信給他們，