Placeholder Image

字幕列表 影片播放

  • Tyler Edmonds,

    譯者: Lilian Chiu 審譯者: Carol Wang

  • Bobby Johnson,

    泰勒·艾德蒙斯、

  • Davontae Sanford,

    巴比·強生、

  • Marty Tankleff,

    戴馮泰·山佛、

  • Jeffrey Deskovic,

    馬堤·坦克利夫、

  • Anthony Caravella

    傑佛瑞·戴斯柯維克、

  • and Travis Hayes.

    安東尼·卡拉維拉,

  • You probably don't recognize their faces.

    以及崔維斯·海斯。

  • Together, they served 89 years for murders that they didn't commit;

    你們可能不認得他們的面孔。

  • murders that they falsely confessed to committing when they were teenagers.

    他們為自己沒有犯下的謀殺 所服的刑期,加起來是 89 年;

  • I'm a forensic developmental psychologist,

    他們錯誤地承認在他們 還是青少年時犯下謀殺罪。

  • and I study these types of cases.

    我是法庭發展心理學家,

  • As a researcher,

    我研究的就是像這樣子的案例。

  • a professor

    身為研究者、

  • and a new parent,

    教授,

  • my goal is to conduct scientific research that helps us understand

    以及新手媽媽,

  • how kids function in a legal system that was designed for adults.

    我的目標是進行科學研究, 來協助我們了解

  • In March of 2006,

    在為成人所設計的法律體制下, 孩子們會怎麼做。

  • police interrogated Brendan Dassey,

    2006 年三月,

  • a 16-year-old high school student with an IQ around 70,

    警方訊問了布蘭·登戴西,

  • putting him in the range of intellectual disability.

    他是位 16 歲的高中生, 智商大約 70。

  • So here's just a brief snippet of his four-hour interrogation.

    這樣的智商是屬於智能障礙的範圍。

  • (Video) Police 1: Brendan, be honest.

    以下是他在接受的四小時偵訊中 截取出來的簡短片段。

  • I told you before that's the only thing that's going to help you here.

    (影片)警察一: 布蘭登,要說實話。

  • We already know what happened, OK?

    我之前告訴過你,唯有誠實能幫你。

  • Police 2: If we don't get honesty here --

    我們已經知道事情發生的經過,好嗎?

  • I'm your friend right now,

    警察二:如果你不說實話——

  • but I've got to believe in you,

    現在我是你的朋友,

  • and if I don't believe in you,

    但我必須要能相信你,

  • I can't go to bat for you.

    如果我不相信你,

  • OK? You're nodding.

    我就無法支持你。

  • Tell us what happened.

    好嗎?你在點頭。

  • P1: Your mom said you'd be honest with us.

    告訴我們發生的經過。

  • P2: And she's behind you 100 percent no matter what happens here.

    警察一:你媽媽說 你會對我們說實話。

  • P1: That's what she said, because she thinks you know more, too.

    警察二:不論在這裡發生什麼事, 她都會完全支持你。

  • P2: We're in your corner.

    警察一:那是她說的, 因為她也認為你知道更多。

  • P1: We already know what happened, now tell us exactly. Don't lie.

    警察二:我們和你的立場是一樣的。

  • Lindsay Malloy: They told Brendan that honesty would "set him free,"

    警察一:我們已經知道事發經過, 現在告訴我們細節。別說謊。

  • but they were completely convinced of his guilt at that point.

    琳賽·馬洛伊:他們告訴布蘭登, 誠實能「讓他得到自由」。

  • So by honesty, they meant a confession,

    但在那個時候, 他們完全認為他是有罪的。

  • and his confession would definitely not end up setting him free.

    所以他們所謂的誠實,就是認罪。

  • They eventually got a confession from Brendan

    可以肯定的是,他的供詞 最後不可能讓他得到自由。

  • that didn't really make sense,

    他們最終拿到了布蘭登的供詞,

  • didn't match much of the physical evidence of the crime

    內容並不合理。

  • and is widely believed to be false.

    該犯罪的許多實體證據 大都和供詞不符,

  • Still, it was enough to convict Brendan and sentence him to life in prison

    而且很多人認為那份供詞是假的。

  • for murder and sexual assault in 2007.

    但在這起 2007 年的 謀殺與性侵害罪中,

  • There was no physical evidence against Brendan at all.

    它仍然足以將布蘭登定罪, 判他終身監禁。

  • It was nothing more than his own words

    完全沒有對布蘭登不利的 任何實體證據。

  • that sent him to prison for nearly a decade,

    只是他自己的認罪供詞,

  • until a judge overturned his conviction just a few months ago.

    讓他坐了將近十年的牢。

  • The Dassey case is unique because it made its way into a Netflix series,

    直到幾個月前, 一位法官才推翻了他的定罪。

  • called "Making a Murderer,"

    戴西的案例很獨特 是因為它被拍成了網飛的影集,

  • which I'm sure many of you saw,

    叫做《製造殺人犯》。

  • and if you haven't, you should definitely watch it.

    我相信在座有很多人看過。

  • The Dassey case is also unique

    如果你還沒看過,你絕對應該要看。

  • because it led to such intense public outrage.

    戴西案例的獨特之處同樣在於

  • People were very angry about how Brendan was questioned,

    它造成了非常強烈的公憤。

  • and many assumed that his interrogation had to have been illegal.

    對於布蘭登被質問的方式, 大眾感到非常生氣。

  • It wasn't illegal.

    許多人認為他的偵訊 應該是不合法的。

  • As someone who's a researcher in this area

    它並非不合法。

  • and is familiar with police interrogation training manuals,

    我身為這個領域的研究者,

  • I wasn't really surprised by what I saw.

    加上我很熟悉警方的偵訊訓練手冊,

  • The fact is, Dassey's interrogation itself is actually not all that unique,

    看到這樣的狀況, 我並不真的感到意外。

  • and to be honest with you, I've seen worse.

    事實是,戴西的偵訊本身 並沒有很獨特。

  • So I understand the public outcry about injustice

    老實跟各位說,我看過更糟的。

  • in Brendan Dassey's individual case.

    所以我能了解大眾會強烈抗議

  • But let's not forget that approximately one million or so of his peers

    布蘭登戴西這個案子中 所發生的不公正。

  • are arrested every year in the United States

    但我們別忘了,

  • and may be subjected to similar interrogation techniques,

    美國每年會逮捕 大約一百萬名和他類似的人。

  • techniques that we know increase the risk for false confession.

    這些人可能都會受到 類似的偵訊技巧對待,

  • And I know many people are going to struggle with that term,

    我們知道這些技巧 增加假供詞的風險。

  • "false confession,"

    我知道許多人對「假供詞」 這個詞有異議,

  • and with believing that false confessions actually occur.

    我知道許多人對「假供詞」 這個詞有異議,

  • And I get that.

    而且他們相信 假供詞所敘述的確實發生了。

  • It's very shocking and counterintuitive:

    我能了解。

  • Why would someone confess and even give gruesome details

    這非常讓人震驚且和直覺不符:

  • about a horrifying crime like rape or murder

    為什麼會有人要招供, 甚至附上可怕的細節,

  • if they hadn't actually done it?

    宣稱自己犯下了 像強暴或謀殺的恐怖罪行,

  • It makes no sense.

    但其實並不是他們做的?

  • And the fact is, we can never know precisely

    那實在說不通。

  • how often false confessions occur.

    事實是,我們永遠 不可能精確地知道

  • But what we do know is that false confessions or admissions were present

    假供詞有多常發生。

  • in approximately 25 percent of wrongful convictions

    但我們確實知道 大約 25% 的錯誤定罪

  • of people later exonerated by DNA evidence.

    涉及假供詞或坦承。

  • Turns out, they were innocent.

    後來當事人 因為 DNA 證據被免罪,

  • These cases are crystal clear because we have the DNA.

    結果是他們是無辜的。

  • So they didn't do the crime,

    這些案例因為有 DNA, 所以可以非常肯定。

  • and yet one-quarter of them confessed to it anyway.

    所以,這些人並沒有犯罪,

  • And at this point, from countless research studies,

    但是當中卻有四分之一的人 仍然承認犯了罪。

  • we have a pretty good sense of why people falsely confess,

    目前,根據無數的研究報告,

  • and why some people,

    我們已經相當了解 為什麼有人會做假供詞,

  • like Brendan Dassey,

    也能了解為什麼有人,

  • are at greater risk for doing so.

    像布蘭登·戴西,

  • We know that youth are especially vulnerable to providing false confessions.

    做出假供詞的風險會更高。

  • In one study of exonerations, for example,

    我們知道年輕人 特別容易提供假供詞。

  • only eight percent of adults had falsely confessed,

    比如,在一項關於免責的研究中,

  • but 42 percent of juveniles had done so.

    只有 8% 的成人會做出假供詞,

  • Of course, if we're just looking at wrongful convictions and exonerations,

    但 42% 青少年會 。

  • we're only getting part of the story.

    當然,如果我們 只看錯誤定罪和免責,

  • Left out, for instance, are the many cases that are resolved by guilty pleas,

    我們只看到片面。

  • not trials.

    比如,我們漏掉許多 因犯人認罪就結案

  • From TV and news headlines,

    而沒經過審判的案件。

  • you may think that trials are the norm in our legal system,

    根據電視和新聞標題,

  • but the reality is that 97 percent of legal cases in the US

    你們可能會認為審判是 我們法律體制的基準,

  • are resolved by pleas, not trials.

    但現實是美國有 97% 的法律案件

  • Ninety-seven percent.

    由認罪就結案,沒有經過審判。

  • Also left out will be confessions to more minor types of crimes

    97%。

  • that don't typically involve DNA evidence

    我們還會漏掉輕罪的供詞,

  • and aren't usually reviewed or appealed following a conviction.

    通常沒有 DNA 證據,

  • So for this reason,

    定罪之後通常不再被復審或上訴。

  • many refer to the false confessions we actually do know about

    因為這個原因,

  • as the tip of a much larger iceberg.

    許多人認為我們得知的假供詞

  • In our research, we found alarming rates of false confession among teenagers.

    只是更大的冰山的一角。

  • We interviewed almost 200 incarcerated 14-to-17-year-olds,

    在我們的研究中,我們發現 青少年的假供詞比率很驚人。

  • and 17 percent of them reported

    我們訪談了近 200 名 被監禁的 14~17 歲青少年。

  • that they'd made at least one false confession to police.

    當中有 17% 說

  • What's also shocking to most is that,

    他們向警方做出 至少一項的假供詞。

  • in interrogations in the US,

    還有一項讓大部分人 感到震驚的事,

  • police are allowed to interrogate juveniles just like adults.

    在美國的偵訊中,

  • So they can lie to them --

    警方是被允許把青少年 當成成人來偵訊。

  • blatant lies like, "We have your fingerprints,

    所以警方可以騙他們——

  • we have your DNA;

    公然說謊,比如 「我們有你的指紋,

  • your friend is down the hall saying that this was all your idea."

    我們有你的 DNA;

  • Lying to suspects is banned in the UK, for example,

    你朋友就在鄰近的偵訊室裡, 他說這事全是你主導的。」

  • but legal here in the US,

    比如在英國,禁止對嫌犯說謊,

  • even with intellectually impaired teens like Brendan Dassey.

    但在美國這裡是合法的,

  • In our research, most of the incarcerated teens that we interviewed

    甚至可以對像布蘭登·戴西 這樣的智障青少年說謊。

  • reported experiencing high-pressure police interrogations

    在我們的研究中, 接受我們訪談的被監禁青少年

  • without lawyers or parents present.

    大部分說他們經歷高壓的警方偵訊,

  • More than 80 percent described having been threatened by the police,

    身邊並沒有律師或家長陪同。

  • including with the possibility of being raped or killed in jail

    超過 80% 說到 他們曾被警方威脅。

  • or being tried as an adult.

    威脅的內容包括他們可能 會在監獄中被強暴或殺害,

  • These maximization strategies are designed

    或被當成成人來審判。

  • to make suspects feel like denials are pointless

    這些「最大化策略」是設計來

  • and confession is the only option.

    讓嫌犯覺得否認是無意義的,

  • So you may have heard of playing the role of "good cop/bad cop," right?

    招供是他們唯一的選擇。

  • Well, this is bad cop.

    各位可能聽過 扮演「好警察和壞警察」吧?

  • Juveniles are more suggestible and susceptible to social influence,

    這就是壞警察。

  • like the intense pressure accusations and suggestions

    青少年更容易接受暗示 以及受到社會影響,

  • coming from authority figures in interrogations.

    比如來自偵訊中有權勢一方的

  • More than 70 percent of the teens in our study said

    強壓指控和暗示。

  • that the police had tried to "befriend" them

    我們的研究中, 超過 70% 的青少年說

  • or indicate a desire to help them out during the interrogation.

    警方試圖和他們「做朋友」,

  • These are referred to as "minimization strategies,"

    或是在偵訊過程中表示要協助他們。

  • and they're designed to convey sympathy and understanding to the suspect,

    這些被稱為是「最小化策略」。

  • and they imply that a confession will result in more lenient treatment.

    這個策略是設計來向嫌犯 傳遞同情和了解,

  • So in the classic good-cop-bad-cop oversimplification

    並暗示如果他們招供就能 得到比較寬大的待遇。

  • of police interrogations,

    所在警方偵訊中

  • this is "good cop."

    常用的好警察 - 壞警察簡化後,

  • (Video) P1: Honesty here, Brendan, is the thing that's going to help you, OK?

    這就是「好警察」。

  • No matter what you did,

    (影片)警察一:布蘭登, 現在只有誠實能幫得了你,懂嗎?

  • we can work through that, OK?

    不論你做了什麼,

  • We can't make any promises,

    我們都能想辦法處理,好嗎?

  • but we'll stand behind you no matter what you did, OK?

    我們無法做任何保證,

  • LM: "No matter what you did, we can work through that."

    但不論你做了什麼, 我們都會站在你這邊,好嗎?

  • Hints of leniency like you just saw with Brendan

    講者:「不論你做了什麼, 我們都能想辦法處理。」

  • are especially powerful among adolescents,

    像剛剛布蘭登接收到的 那種會寬大處理的暗示

  • in part because they evaluate reward and risk differently than adults do.

    對青少年來說是特別強大的。

  • Confessing brings an immediate reward to the suspect, right?

    部分原因是因為青少年和成人 評估獎賞和風險的方式不同。

  • Now the stressful, unpleasant interrogation is over.

    對嫌犯來說,招供馬上 就能帶來獎賞,對吧?

  • So confessing may seem like the best option to most teens,

    很有壓力且不愉快的 偵訊就會結束了。

  • who are less focused on that long-term risk of conviction and punishment

    所以,對大多數的青少年來說, 招供似乎是最好的選項,

  • down the road

    他們比較不聚焦長遠的風險:

  • as a result of that confession.

    接下來的定罪和處罰,

  • I think we can all agree that thoughtful, long-term planning

    也就是招供的後果。

  • is not a strength of most teenagers that we know.

    我想大家都能認同, 深思熟慮和長遠規劃

  • And by and large, the legal system seems to get

    並不是我們所認識的 大部分青少年的強項。

  • that young victims and witnesses should be treated differently than adults.

    總的來說,法律體制似乎了解

  • But when it comes to young suspects, it's like the kid gloves come off.

    年輕受害者和證人應該要 受到和成人不同的對待。

  • And treating juveniles as though they're adults in interrogations

    但對於年輕嫌犯, 法律體系就沒有同樣的考量了。

  • is a problem,

    在偵訊中把青少年當作成人來對待

  • because literally hundreds

    是一個問題,

  • of psychological and neuroscientific studies

    因為確實有數百個

  • tell us that juveniles do not think like adults,

    心理和神經科學研究告訴我們

  • they do not behave like adults,

    青少年和成人的思考方式不同,

  • and they're not built like adults.

    他們的行為模式也不同,

  • Adolescent brains are different from adult brains --

    而且他們還沒有成年人的建構。

  • even anatomically.

    青少年的頭腦和成人的不同——

  • So there are important changes happening

    連結剖學上都不同。

  • in the structure and function of the brain during adolescence,

    所以在青少年時期,

  • especially in the prefrontal cortex and the limbic system,

    頭腦的結構和功能 會有重大的改變,

  • and these are areas that are crucial for things like self-control,

    特別是在前額葉皮質 及腦部邊緣系統上。

  • decision-making,

    這些區域對於自我控制、

  • emotion processing and regulation

    做決策、

  • and sensitivity to reward and risk,

    情緒處理及調節,

  • all of which can affect how you function in a stressful circumstance,

    以及對獎賞和風險的 敏感度方面非常重要。

  • like a police interrogation.

    上述這些面向都會影響 你在高壓力的情況下的反應,

  • We need to educate law enforcement,

    比如在警方偵訊時。

  • attorneys, judges and jurors

    我們必需教育執法人員、

  • on juveniles' developmental limitations

    律師、法官,以及陪審團,

  • and how they can play out in a high-stakes interrogation.

    有關青少年的發展限制,

  • In one national survey of police officers,

    以及在關係重大的偵訊中 這些限制所造成的影響。

  • 75 percent of them actually requested specialized training

    在一項對警察的全國性調查中,

  • in how to talk to children and adolescents --

    75% 的警察確實 有請求提供特殊訓練,

  • most of them had had none.

    學習如何和兒童及青少年對談——

  • We also need to consider having special protections in place for juveniles.

    他們大部分都沒有過這方面的訓練。

  • In his 91-page decision to overturn Dassey's conviction earlier this year,

    我們也得考慮設立 保護青少年的特定機制。

  • the judge made a big deal about the fact that Dassey had no parent

    今年推翻戴西定罪的那位法官, 在他 91 頁的判決書中,

  • or other allied adult

    特別大肆強調戴西沒有父母

  • in the interrogation room with him.

    或其他站在他那邊的成人

  • So here's a clip of Brendan talking to his mom after he confessed,

    在偵訊室中陪同他。

  • when it was obviously far too late for him.

    以下這段影片,是布蘭登 在招供之後和他母親的對話。

  • (Video) Mom: What do you mean?

    很顯然,對他來說, 當時已經太遲了。

  • Brendan: Like, if his story is, like, different,

    (影片)母親:你是什麼意思?

  • like I never did nothing or something.

    布蘭登:就像如果…… 說法不同的話,

  • M: Did you?

    像是我從來沒有做這件事。

  • Huh?

    母:你有做嗎?

  • B: Not really.

    有嗎?

  • M: What do you mean, "Not really"?

    布:其實沒有。

  • B: They got into my head.

    母:什麼叫「其實沒有」?

  • LM: So he sums it up pretty beautifully there:

    布:他們控制了我的腦袋。

  • "They got into my head."

    講者:他的總結很到位:

  • We don't know if the outcome would have been different for Brendan

    「他們控制了我的腦袋。」

  • if his mom had been in the interrogation room with him.

    我們不知道如果 布蘭登的母親有在偵訊室中

  • But it's certainly possible.

    陪伴他的話, 結果是否會有所不同。

  • In our research, only seven percent of incarcerated teens,

    但肯定有可能不同。

  • most of whom had had numerous encounters with police,

    在我們的研究中, 只有 7% 受監禁的青少年,

  • had ever had a parent or attorney in the room with them

    當中大部分人都 曾經和警方有過數次接觸,

  • when they were questioned as a suspect.

    在被當成嫌犯訊問的時候,

  • Few had ever asked for a parent or attorney to be present.

    有父母或律師在房間中陪同。

  • And you see this in lower-stake situations, too.

    很少人曾要求要有父母或律師在場。

  • We did a mock interrogation experiment in our lab here at FIU --

    在較不嚴重的情境中 也有這種現象。

  • with parent permission for all minors, of course,

    在佛羅里達國際大學的實驗室中, 我們做了一項模擬偵訊實驗——

  • and all the appropriate ethical approvals.

    當然全都得到 未成年人父母親的同意,

  • We falsely accused teens and adults of cheating on a study task --

    也取得了所有必要的道德倫理許可。

  • an academic dishonesty offense --

    我們故意錯誤指控青少年和成人 在一項研究工作上作弊——

  • that we told them was as serious as cheating in a class.

    一項學術詐欺罪行——

  • In reality, participants had witnessed a peer cheat,

    我們告訴他們,這件事 和在課堂上作弊一樣嚴重。

  • someone who was actually part of our research team

    在現實中,參與者 曾目擊到一位同儕作弊,

  • and was allegedly on academic probation.

    這位作弊者其實 是我們研究團隊的人,

  • And we gave everyone a tough choice:

    宣稱他被留校察看。

  • you can lose your extra credit for participating in the study

    我們讓每個人面臨艱難的選擇:

  • or accuse your peer,

    要麼你(自白而)得不到 參與這項研究的額外學分,

  • who will probably be expelled because of his academic probation status.

    要麼指控你的同儕,

  • Of course, in reality, none of these consequences would have panned out,

    他可能會因而被退學, 因為他已處於留校察看的狀態。

  • and we fully debriefed all of the participants afterward.

    當然,現實裡這些後果都不會發生,

  • But most teenagers -- 59 percent of them --

    事後我們向所有參與者 完整地匯報說明。

  • signed the confession statement,

    但大部分的青少年—— 當中的 59%——

  • falsely taking responsibility for the cheating.

    簽了自白書,

  • Only three teens out of 74,

    背了作弊的黑鍋。

  • or about four percent of them,

    74 位青少年中,只有 3 位,

  • asked to talk to a parent when we accused them of cheating,

    或是說大約 4%,

  • despite the fact that for most of them,

    在我們指控他們作弊時, 會要求要和父母談,

  • their parent was literally sitting in the next room during the study.

    儘管他們當中大部分人的父母