I'm your host Li Cheng.

And today, we're talking about the visual artworks

produced by The Church of Almighty God

with Professor Massimo Introvigne, Italian scholar of new religious movements,

founder and managing director of Center for Studies on New Religions.

Good afternoon, Professor Introvigne.

Thank you for being here.

Good afternoon!

You're an expert in the study of new religions,

and religious visual art is one of your fields of study.

I've heard that you are interested in The Church of Almighty God's artworks.

Last December,

you published an article on WRSP online encyclopedia about these artworks.

I'd like to find out a bit more about why this is;

what do you find so fascinating out of these works?

I believe there is a prehistory in it

that in 1970s, very few historians of art started noticing

that a very significant art was produced by the new religions.

Actually, in a disproportionate amount,

meaning new religions are minority religions,

but they contribute to the arts in proportion

in a much bigger way than the old religions,

that was even a discovery which was resisted by art critics,

because there was the general idea that the modern artist is very often an atheist.

It came out that this is not true if we have a look at history of art,

but even of modern art we see that the real atheists are very few.

It is true that many art complexes, artworks

are no longer perhaps produced in the traditional churches and religions,

but the new religions started in the 20th century or the 19th century

and really contributed very significantly to the world of art with their productions.

So what happened to The Church of Almighty God?

Because this model will predict that,

being such a large fast-growing church,

The Church of Almighty God will produce its own art,

but that didn't happen for many years,

for a very simple reason, because of the persecution.

Because of the persecution in China,

you cannot have buildings and you had other things to do,

trying to survive the cruel persecution of the CCP (the Chinese Communist Party),

and didn't leave much time and leisure to produce art.

As soon as you started having significant communities abroad in certain countries,

where you may have had some problems as refugees, but you were not persecuted,

the model worked in the sense

that being a growing and large new religion,

The Church of Almighty God started producing works of art.

That perhaps is an unintended consequence of

the persecution of the CCP that generates a diaspora abroad,

and in the diaspora abroad the art started flourishing.

Of course, a second unintended consequence had nothing to do with art,

and was that non-Chinese started returning to Almighty God as well,

that's also because of this significant presence of diaspora communities.

I will say that your artistic production really started in 2013 or 2014.

In few years, there is an astonishing growth of this production

in terms of number of movies and in terms of number of paintings.

I know that paintings are mostly used for the movies,

some of them decorate your churches and offices,

but nonetheless we are speaking of thousands of paintings,

many of them are of very good art quality.

So, I will say that a distinctive body of art is being created very rapidly,

and has also been acknowledged

in the sense that some of your movies won awards in Christian film festivals,

which is very significant

because they recognized the good quality of your movies and gave these awards.

Normally,

it is an important step in the maturity and globalization

and mainstreaming of many religions

when they start having their own distinctive body works of art.

Yes, just like you said,

the visual arts of The Church of Almighty God progress rapidly.

New artworks keep being produced.

But I have to say,

without the blessing of God, without the work of the Holy Spirit,

no one could have done this.

So let's first talk about the paintings of the Church.

I'm sure if you would exhibit them

or create websites mostly devoted to your paintings

that many people would admire the quality of these paintings.

As I say,

there are two main bodies perhaps three of paintings I've been exposed to,

some are landscape paintings with a traditional-modern quality,

and you use in a significant way computer-assisted drawing.

That reminds me of an important exhibition of David Hockney, the British artist, in New York.

I visited the Metropolitan Museum of Art

and he is now old

but he's using a lot the iPad for creating works of art.

You really see that there is a tendency in Modern Art

in the use of computer-assisted technology.

Particularly for producing landscapes, it's quite significant

and I'm not suggesting that

your artists are inspired by any particular Western artist,

but it's something which is in the air

to take advantage of the computer-assisted technology

to produce landscape or scenarios with very bright warm colors.

So in a way your artists are part of this trend.

Then second, there is the biblical scenery,

and here your images are much more traditional.

Particularly, if you want to use this expression

"Christ Knocking at the Door,"

which is very much reminiscent of

British pre-Raphaelite productions of the late 19th century,

William Holman Hunt, etc.

In this painting,

it's really a new take at an old iconographic tradition.

In some other paintings,

of course we see the distinctive theology of The Church of Almighty God,

and we see very clearly a distinct relationship

between the creation of the artist and the word of Almighty God.

One painting, for instance, shows Adam and Eve clothed.

They discover they are naked and they receive clothes.

The clothes are made by God's own hands.

This, particular in the theology of The Church of Almighty God,

is very important,

because it shows that God takes care of human beings,

even if God can chastise human beings in some occasions,

but He takes care of human beings

and even God's care of humans is so delicate

that He makes the clothing with His own hands.

Another similar image is "Noah's Ark After the Flood."

And here I believe for interpreting the paintings,

some knowledge of the theology of The Church Almighty God is needed.

Because the real center of the painting is not Noah,

it's not the animals as colorful as they may be,

but what is in the center of the painting is the rainbow.

Many art critics studied Christian paintings in general,

and I am reminded of the Christian art critic from Austria, Hans Sedlmayr,

he said in the Christian paintings, there is always a center.

Sometime in the modern art there is no center,

but in the Christian paintings, look for the center.

In this painting of Noah after the flood, the center is the rainbow.

The rainbow was sent by God to announce that the world will not be destroyed,

which is an important part of the theology of The Church of Almighty God,

and it's different from what other churches believe.

The Church of Almighty God doesn't believe that this world (will) be destroyed.

Yes, there would be catastrophes,

but this world would be transformed and not be destroyed.

So, the rainbow in a way is a symbol, which is still true today.

So, an understanding of the theology of The Church of Almighty God

will really help us to understand the painting

and to understand where the center is in the painting of Noah after the flood.

Because as I say

art historians have really characterized that the Christian art has a center.

Sometimes the modern art refused to have a center, which is also a choice.

They try to produce something completely different.

But in Christian art,

normally paintings call your attention to a center,

which may not be the physical center, may be a theological center.

In this painting of Noah, the center is really the rainbow,

like in the painting of Adam and Eve the clothing is the important part,

because it's true that

with the clothing God manifests His delicate love for humanity.

Yes, indeed.

The majority of the paintings are produced

based on the Bible and Almighty God's words.

Just like the image "The Rainbow Covenant."

It reminds me of God's words

"In this covenant we see God's heart—

we see that God's heart was in pain when He destroyed this humanity. …

From that point,

God placed all of His expectations of humanity on Noah's family,

hoping they could live under His blessings and not His curse,

hoping that they would never see God destroy the world with a flood again,

and also hoping that they would not be destroyed" (The Word Appears in the Flesh).

From the rainbow covenant, we can see the Creator's love for mankind.

Well, the punishment of God and the sadness of God

is something the audience should infer from the symbols,

because you respect and honor a tradition,

which is in Jewish art and also in most Protestant art.

Catholics are sometimes a little bit different,

particular in the Renaissance with Michelangelo.

But Jews and Protestant Christians

normally do not represent the God of the Old Testament.

You never see the face,

of course you see the face of Jesus, but that's in the New Testament,

what you call the Age of Law and the Age of Grace,

as opposed to the Age of Law.

When dealing with what you call the Age of Law,

most Protestant artists would never represent God,

and Jews of course would never represent God.

I believe you respect this tradition,

you still maintain this tradition of

not representing the God of the Old Testament or Jehovah,

you represent of course the Christ.

And so if we want to understand God in the Age of Law,

we have to look for the symbols.

There are symbols that the flood happened

and there are symbols that Adam and Eve had been kicked out of the Garden of Eden,

but we don't see God doing this,

so we should be able to read the symbols in your painting,

and to understand the reasons for God's punishments and the sadness of God

in administering these punishments from reading of the symbol.

Professor, as we've already mentioned,

the paintings created by The Church of Almighty God

are primarily used in its movies, videos, and musicals,

which have been uploaded to the Internet.

They are used to proclaim and testify God's work of the last days,

and have attracted the interest of more and more people around the world

who wish to find out more about Almighty God's work.

Well, your movies are enjoyed also by many

who are not members of The Church of Almighty God,

because they've been presented in international festivals.

I also believe the number of downloads of these movies on the Internet

indicates that they are seen by many who are not members of The Church of Almighty God.

So, much more than the paintings,

the movies communicate to an external audience.

I believe there are two things to say about this:

First is clearly these movies are from The Church of Almighty God,

I mean if you know The Church of Almighty God,

you can understand that

the message being conveyed is the message of Almighty God.

But second, the movies also communicate through their artistic quality.

Very often they speak of universal values

that such as goodness, the kindness, the love, the family,

the relationship between the children and the parents,

the relation between serious life and modern life,

which sometimes is mostly about having fun and losing your time,

so these values are universal

not only in The Church of Almighty God

and can be recognized also by non-members.

For people who go to Christian film festivals,

they don't know the theology of The Church of Almighty God,

but they recognize there is a good message in these movies.

There are other movies you did