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  • After cutting her arm with a broken glass,

    譯者: Lilian Chiu 審譯者: Marssi Draw

  • she fell into a fitful, exhausted sleep on the railway station platform.

    她用碎玻璃割了手臂之後,

  • Early in the morning, when the station toilets were opened,

    在火車站月臺上陷入了 斷斷續續、讓她疲憊不堪的昏睡。

  • she got painfully to her feet, and made her way over to them.

    一大早,當車站廁所打開時,

  • When she saw her reflection in the mirror,

    她痛苦地站起來,朝廁所前進。

  • she started to cry.

    當她在鏡子中看見自己的倒影,

  • Her face was dirty and tearstained;

    她開始哭泣。

  • her shirt was ripped and covered in blood.

    她的臉上又是髒污又是淚痕;

  • She looked as if she'd been on the streets for three months, not three days.

    她的上衣被扯破,上面都是血。

  • She washed herself as best she could.

    她看起來已經流落街頭 三個月,不是三天。

  • Her arms and stomach were hurting badly.

    她盡可能把自己清洗乾淨。

  • She tried to clean the wounds,

    她的手臂和胃部都非常痛。

  • but any pressure she applied just started the bleeding again.

    她試著清潔傷口,

  • She needed stitches, but there was no way she would go to a hospital.

    但她只要施壓就會再次造成流血。

  • They'd have sent her back home again.

    她的傷口需要縫起來, 但她不要去醫院。

  • Back to him.

    他們會再次把她送回家。

  • She tightened her jacket --

    送回他身邊。

  • well, fastened her jacket tightly to cover the blood.

    她把外套拉緊──

  • She looked back at herself in the mirror.

    嗯,把外套繫緊,遮住血跡。

  • She looked a little better than before but was past caring.

    她回頭看向鏡中的自己。

  • There was only one thing she could think of doing.

    她看起來比以前好一點, 但她早就不在乎了。

  • She came out of the station and into a phone box nearby.

    她只能想到一件要做的事。

  • (Telephone rings)

    她出了車站,到了 附近的一個電話亭中。

  • (Telephone rings)

    (電話鈴響)

  • Woman: Samaritans, can I help you?

    (電話鈴響)

  • Hello, Samaritans. Can I help you?

    女子:撒瑪利亞會,我能協助您嗎?

  • Girl: (Crying) I -- I don't know.

    哈囉,撒瑪利亞會,我能協助您嗎?

  • Woman: What's happened? You sound very upset.

    女孩:(哭泣)我──我不知道。

  • (Girl cries)

    女子:發生了什麼事? 妳聽起來非常沮喪。

  • Woman: Why not start with your name?

    (女孩哭泣)

  • I'm Pam. What can I call you?

    女子:我們先從 妳的名字開始,好嗎?

  • Where are you speaking from?

    我是潘姆。我要如何稱呼妳?

  • Are you safe?

    妳在哪裡講電話?

  • Girl: It's a phone box in London.

    妳安全嗎?

  • Pam: You sound very young. How old are you?

    女孩:我在倫敦的一個電話亭裡。

  • Girl: Fourteen.

    潘姆:妳聽起來很年輕。妳幾歲?

  • Pam: And what's happened to make you so upset?

    女孩:十四歲。

  • Girl: I just want to die. Every day I wake up and wish I was dead.

    潘姆:發生了什麼事, 讓妳這麼沮喪?

  • If he doesn't kill me, then, I think, I want to do it myself.

    女孩:我只想死。 每天我起床都希望我死了。

  • Pam: I'm glad you called.

    如果他沒有殺了我, 那我想,我也會親自下手。

  • Let's start at the beginning.

    潘姆:我很高興妳打來了。

  • Sophie Andrews: Pam continued to gently ask the girl about herself.

    我們從頭開始吧。

  • She didn't say much; there were lots of silences.

    蘇菲安德魯斯:潘姆繼續溫柔地 問這個女孩關於她的事。

  • But she knew she was there,

    她沒有說很多;很多時候是沉默。

  • and having Pam on the end of the phone felt so comforting.

    但她知道她在那裡,

  • The 14-year-old that made that call was me.

    有潘姆在電話的另一端, 感覺很讓人欣慰。

  • That was me in the phone box.

    打這通電話的十四歲女孩,就是我。

  • I was running away from home, sleeping rough on the streets in London.

    在電話亭中的人是我。

  • I was being sexually abused by my father and his friends.

    我離家出走,睡在倫敦街頭。

  • I was self-harming every day. I was suicidal.

    我被我父親和他的朋友性虐待。

  • The first time I called Samaritans, I was 12 and absolutely desperate.

    我每天都會自殘。我有自殺傾向。

  • It was a few months after my mother had deserted me,

    我十二歲時第一次打給 撒瑪利亞會時,當時非常絕望。

  • walked out and left me in the family home.

    那是在我母親拋棄我的幾個月之後,

  • And the abuse I was suffering at the hands of my father and his friends

    她離開了,把我留在家裡。

  • had left me a total wreck.

    我受到我父親和他的朋友性虐待,

  • I was running away, I was missing school,

    讓我完全垮了。

  • I was arriving drunk.

    我會逃家,我沒去上學,

  • I was without hope and wanted to die.

    我會喝醉。

  • And that's where Samaritans came in.

    我沒有希望且一心想死。

  • Samaritans has been around since 1953.

    在這時,撒瑪利亞會介入了。

  • It's a 24/7 confidential helpline in the UK

    撒瑪利亞會從 1953 年就在了。

  • for anyone who might be feeling desperate or suicidal.

    它是在英國的全年無休 保密諮詢服務電話,

  • Which I certainly was.

    對象是感到絕望或想自殺的人。

  • Volunteers answer the phone around the clock every day of the year,

    我肯定就是其一。

  • and calls are confidential.

    每年每天,整天整夜 都有志工會接電話,

  • During my teenage years, when I was most desperate,

    電話都是保密的。

  • Samaritans became my lifeline.

    在我十幾歲最絕望的時候,

  • They promised me total confidentiality.

    撒瑪利亞會成了我的生命線。

  • And that allowed me to trust them.

    他們向我保證會完全保密。

  • Disturbing as they no doubt found my story, they never showed it.

    那讓我能夠信任他們。

  • They were always there for me and listened without judgment.

    他們肯定覺得我的故事很不舒服, 但他們都沒表現出來。

  • Mostly, they gently encouraged me to get help;

    他們總是在那裡協助我, 傾聽,沒有評斷。

  • I never felt out of control with them --

    通常,他們會溫柔地鼓勵我去求助;

  • an interesting parallel,

    和他們談話時,我從未感到失控──

  • as I felt so out of control in every other aspect of my life.

    很有趣的對比,

  • It felt my self-harm was probably the only area

    因為我在人生中其他 每個面向都感到很失控。

  • where I felt I had any control.

    我覺得,自我傷害可能是唯一

  • A few years later, I managed to get some control in my life.

    讓我覺得能掌控的領域。

  • And I had appropriate support around me

    幾年後,我想辦法在 我的人生中取得一些控制。

  • to allow me to live with what had happened.

    我周邊有著適當的支持,

  • I had become a survivor of abuse rather than a victim.

    讓我能帶著這段往事活下去。

  • And at 21, I contacted Samaritans again.

    我成了虐待的倖存者,而非受害者。

  • This time because I wanted to become a volunteer.

    二十一歲時,我再次 聯絡了撒瑪利亞會。

  • Wanted to pay something back

    這次是因為我想要當志工。

  • to the organization that had really saved my life.

    我想做點什麼來回報

  • I knew that the simple act of listening in an empathetic way

    這個真的救了我一命的組織。

  • could have a profound effect.

    我知道「傾聽」這個簡單的行為

  • I knew that somebody listening to me without judgment

    是種可能具有深遠影響的同理方式。

  • would make the biggest difference.

    我知道若有人能不帶著評斷 只是傾聽我說話,

  • So I caught up with my education,

    就能造成最大的不同。

  • found someone I could persuade to give me a job,

    後來我把學歷補齊,

  • and I enjoyed my volunteering at Samaritans.

    說服了一個人給我一份工作,

  • And when I say "enjoyed," it's an odd word to use,

    我很享受我在 撒瑪利亞會的志工工作。

  • because no one would want to think of anyone

    我知道用「享受」這個詞很奇怪,

  • being in absolute distress or pain.

    因為沒有人會想要知道有任何人

  • But I knew that that profound impact of that listening ear

    身在極度的悲痛或痛苦當中。

  • and someone being alongside me at that desperate time

    但我知道傾聽有多深刻的影響,

  • had the biggest impact,

    在絕望的時候若有人在身邊

  • and I felt a great sense of fulfillment

    影響會極大,

  • that I was able to help people as a Samaritan.

    我感到很高的滿足感,

  • In my years volunteering at Samaritans, I was asked to perform many roles.

    我是撒瑪利亞會人,我在幫助人。

  • But I guess the peak came in 2008,

    在撒瑪利亞會當志工的這些年間, 我被要求扮演許多角色。

  • when I was asked to chair the organization for three years.

    但我想高峰期是在 2008 年,

  • So I had actually gone from that vulnerable caller

    他們請我主持這個組織三年。

  • in the phone box, desperate for help,

    所以,我從一個極度需要協助

  • to being the national lead for the organization

    而在電話亭中打電話給志工的人,

  • and responsible for 22,000 volunteers.

    變成了這個組織的全國領導人,

  • I actually used to joke at the time

    負責兩萬兩千名志工。

  • and say if you really screwed up as a caller,

    我在那時會開玩笑說,

  • you might end up running the place.

    如果你真的慘到要打電話求助,

  • (Laughter)

    最後可能會去經營那個地方。

  • Which I did.

    (笑聲)

  • But I guess in a world which is dominated by professionalizing everything we do,

    我就是這樣。

  • I really understood that that simple act of listening

    但我想,這個世界的主流是要 把我們做的每件事都職業化,

  • could have such a life-changing effect.

    我真的能了解「傾聽」 這個簡單的行為

  • I guess it's a simple concept

    會有能改變生命的影響力。

  • that can be applied across all areas of life.

    它是個簡單的概念,

  • So in the 1980s, when I called Samaritans,

    可以應用在人生的所有領域中。

  • child abuse was a subject no one wanted to talk about.

    在八〇年代,我打電話 給撒瑪利亞會時,

  • Victims were often blamed, victims were often judged.

    虐待孩童是沒有人想要談論的主題。

  • And it was a topic of shame, and no one really wanted to talk about it.

    受害者通常會被責怪, 受害者通常會被評斷。

  • Today, judgment and shame surround a different issue.

    它是一個可恥的話題, 沒有人想要談它。

  • There's a different stigma that's out there.

    現今,評斷和羞恥 圍繞著不同的議題。

  • And the stigma that's there today is to talk about loneliness.

    現在外頭的汙名不同了。

  • Loneliness and isolation have profound health impacts.

    現今,談論孤獨就會被冠上汙名。

  • Being lonely can have a significant impact on your own well-being.

    孤獨和孤立對健康有很深的影響。

  • Recent systematic review of research

    孤獨可能會對你的 安康有重大的影響。

  • actually said that it increased the mortality rates,

    近期,一篇對研究做的系統性評論

  • or premature death rates,

    提到孤獨真的會增加死亡率,

  • by up to 30 percent.

    或是早產兒的死亡率,

  • It can lead to higher blood pressure, higher levels of depression,

    提升 30% 之多。

  • and actually aligned to mortality rates

    孤獨可能會導致更高的血壓、 更高度的憂鬱,

  • that might be more associated with alcohol abuse or smoking cigarettes.

    且會造成酒精濫用或是抽煙

  • Loneliness is actually more harmful that smoking 15 cigarettes.

    而使得死亡率提高。

  • A day.

    孤獨比抽十五根煙還要更傷人。

  • Not in your life, in your day.

    一天。

  • It's also associated with higher levels of dementia.

    不是一生,是一天。

  • So a recent study also found

    孤獨也會提高失智風險。

  • that lonely people are twice at risk of Alzheimer's disease.

    一篇近期的研究也發現,

  • Of course, there's many people that live alone who are not lonely.

    孤獨的人罹患阿茲海默症的 風險是兩倍高。

  • But being a caregiver for a partner that maybe has dementia

    當然,許多獨居的人並不孤獨。

  • can be a very lonely place.

    但要照顧可能有失智症的另一半,

  • And a recent landmark study gave us a very good, clear definition

    卻是非常孤獨的。

  • of what loneliness is.

    近期有一篇重大研究 就很清楚地定義了

  • And it said it's a subjective, unwelcome feeling

    孤獨是什麼。

  • of a lack or loss of companionship.

    它說,孤獨是一種主觀、 不受歡迎的感覺,

  • And it happens when there's a mismatch

    感到缺乏或失去陪伴。

  • between the quality and the quantity of relationships that we have

    有一種情況會發生,

  • and those that we want.

    就是當「我們擁有的關係」 和「我們想要的關係」之間的質與量

  • Now in my life, the best help I've ever received

    不吻合的時候。

  • has been from those personal connections

    我人生中得到過最好的協助

  • and being listened to in an empathetic way.

    是來自那些個人的連結,

  • Professionals, and I'm conscious I'm speaking to a room of professionals,

    以及被用同理的方式傾聽。

  • have a very important place.

    專業人士,我知道這裡的 觀眾都是專業人士,

  • But for me, a volunteer giving up their time

    有個很重要的地位。

  • and listening to me without judgment in a confidential way,

    但對我來說,志工犧牲他們的時間,

  • had such a huge, life-changing effect for me.

    不帶評斷地傾聽我,而且絕對保密,

  • And that was something that really stayed with me.

    這對我的人生有相當重大的影響。

  • So as you will have gathered, in my teenage years,

    而那影響真的一直與我同在。

  • I was off the rails, I was going every day wondering if I'd even live the next day.

    你們應該猜得到,我十幾歲的時候,

  • But that profound impact of the volunteer listening to me stayed with me.

    我完全脫離軌道,每天都 想著我會不會活到明天。

  • When I finally got to a point in my life

    但志工傾聽我的那深刻影響, 始終一直與我同在。

  • where I felt I could live with what had happened,

    當我的人生終於走到某一刻,

  • I wanted to pay something back.

    當我覺得我可以帶著 那段往事活下去時,

  • And in my experience,

    我想要做些回報。

  • people who have been helped in a transforming way

    依我的經驗,

  • always want to pay something back.

    接受過協助,且因為 這些協助而有所轉變的人,

  • So I started paying back by my 25 years volunteering with Samaritans.

    總會想要做點什麼來回報。

  • And then, in 2013,

    我開始回報的方式,就是在 撒瑪利亞會當二十五年的志工。

  • picking up on that whole issue and the new stigma of loneliness,

    接著,在 2013 年,

  • I launched a new national helpline in the UK for older people,

    我注意到孤獨的議題 以及相關的汙名,

  • called The Silver Line,

    所以我在英國推出了新的全國 諮詢服務電話,對象是老人。

  • which is there to support lonely and isolated older people.

    這支電話叫「銀線」,

  • In our short history, we've taken 1.5 million calls.

    它的目的是要支援 孤獨和孤立的老人。

  • And I know we're having a big impact, based on the feedback we get every day.

    我們的歷史不長,但已經 接了一百五十萬通電話。

  • Some people might be calling up for a friendly chat,

    根據每天接到的回饋意見, 我知道我們的影響很大。

  • maybe some information about local services.

    有些人打來是希望 能進行友善的聊天,

  • Some might be calling because they're suicidal.

    也許得到一些關於當地服務的資訊。

  • Some might be calling up because they're reporting abuse.

    有些人打來是因為他們有自殺傾向。

  • And some quite simply, as I was, may have simply just given up on life.

    有些人打來可能是因為 他們要通報虐待事件。

  • I guess it's a really simple idea, setting up a helpline.

    有些人則和我當年一樣, 單純就是已經放棄了人生。

  • And I look back to those early days

    這是個很簡單的點子, 設立一支服務電話。

  • when I had the lofty title, I still have, of chief exec, but in the early days,

    我回頭看以前的日子,

  • I was chief exec of myself.

    我那時有、現在還有的高頭銜 就是執行長,

  • Which, I have to say, I had the best meetings ever in my career --

    但更早時,我是自己的執行長。

  • (Laughter)

    我得要說,那時我有 我職涯中最棒的會議──

  • as chief exec of myself.

    (笑聲)

  • But things have moved on, and now in 2017,

    當我自己的執行長時。

  • we have over 200 staff listening to older people

    但一切都繼續前進下去, 現在,2017 年,

  • every day of the year, 24/7.

    我們有超過兩百名成員 負責傾聽老人,

  • We also have over 3,000 volunteers making weekly friendship calls

    二十四小時且全年無休。

  • from their own home.

    我們也有三千名志工, 每週會從他們自己家中

  • We also, for people that like the written word,

    撥打友善電話。

  • offer Silver Letters, and we write pen-pal letters

    對於喜歡書面文字的人,

  • to older people who still enjoy receiving a letter.

    我們提供「銀信」, 我們會寫筆友式的書信,

  • And we also have introduced something called Silver Circles --

    給仍然喜歡收到實體信件的老人。

  • you notice I'm owning the word "silver" here --

    我們還推出了叫做「銀圈」的服務──

  • put "silver" in front of it and it's ours.

    你們應該有注意到 我用「銀」這個字──

  • Silver Circles are group conference calls

    前面有個「銀」字的 服務就是我們的。

  • where people actually talk about shared interests.

    銀圈是團體電話會議,

  • My favorite group is the music group,

    會議中大家會談彼此共同的興趣。

  • where people, every week, play musical instruments

    我最喜歡的團體是音樂團體,

  • down the phone to each other.

    在那個團體中,每週人們都會

  • Not always the same tune at the same time.

    在電話中演奏樂器給彼此聽。

  • (Laughter)

    不見得總是同步、同音調。

  • But they do have fun.

    (笑聲)

  • And "fun" is an interesting word,

    但他們覺得很有樂趣。

  • because I've talked very much about desperation, loneliness and isolation.

    「樂趣」是個有趣的詞,

  • But if you came to our helpline in the UK, you would also hear laughter.

    因為我多半都在談 絕望、孤獨及孤立。

  • Because at the Silver Line,

    但如果你來聽我們在英國的 諮詢服務電話,你也會聽見笑聲。

  • we do want to cherish the wonderful lives of older people

    因為在銀線,

  • and all the experiences that they bring.

    我們想要珍惜老人的美好生命,

  • So here's an example, just a snippet of one of our calls.

    以及他們帶來的所有經驗。

  • (Audio) Good morning, you're through to the Silver Line.

    這裡有個例子,這只是我們 接到的電話中的一小部分。

  • My name's Alan, how can I help?

    (聲音)早安,這裡是銀線,

  • Woman: Hello, Alan. Good morning.

    我是艾倫,我能提供什麼協助?

  • Alan: Hello.

    女人:哈囉,艾倫。早安。

  • Woman: (Chipper) Hello!

    艾倫:哈囉。

  • Alan: Oh, how are you this morning?

    女人:(興高采烈)哈囉!

  • Woman: I'm alright, thank you.

    艾倫:你今天早上過得如何?

  • Alan: I'm pleased to hear it.

    女人:還不錯,謝謝你。

  • Woman: What a wonderful thing the telephone is, you know?

    艾倫:很高興聽你這麼說。

  • Alan: It's a remarkable invention, isn't it?

    女人:電話真是 很棒的東西,你知道嗎?

  • Woman: I remember when I was a little girl,

    艾倫:它是個了不起的發明,對吧?

  • donkey's years ago,

    女人:我記得我小時候,

  • if you wanted to make a phone call to somebody,

    很多很多年以前,

  • you had to go to a shop

    如果要打電話給某人,

  • and use the telephone of the shop

    你得要到一家店裡,

  • and pay the shop for using the telephone and have your phone call.

    用店裡的電話,

  • So you didn't make phone calls just whenever you fancied.

    然後付錢給店家 才能打你要打的電話。

  • Alan: Oh, no.

    並不是你想要打電話時就能打。

  • Woman: (Coughs) Oh, sorry.

    艾倫:喔,不。

  • (Coughs)

    女人:(咳嗽)喔,抱歉。

  • Excuse me about that.

    (咳嗽)

  • You had to, you know,

    不好意思。

  • confine your phone calls to the absolute essentials.

    你得要,你知道的,

  • And now, here I am, sitting in my own home in my dressing gown still,

    限制你的電話,只打非常必要的。

  • and using the telephone, isn't it wonderful?

    而現在,我坐在自己的 家裡,還穿著浴袍,

  • Alan: It is. (Laughter)

    同時打電話,這樣不是很棒嗎?

  • SA: And that's not untypical of a call we might receive at our helpline.

    艾倫:是的。(笑聲)

  • That's someone who really sees us as part of the family.

    蘇菲安德魯斯:我們的諮詢 服務常接到這類電話。

  • So Silver Line, I guess, are now helping older people

    像那樣的人,真的把我們當做家人。

  • in the same way that Samaritans has helped me.

    所以我想銀線現在協助老人的方式,

  • They're there 24/7, they're listening confidentially

    就是撒瑪利亞會曾經協助我的方式。

  • and quite often not giving any advice.

    他們全年無休,他們傾聽且能保密,

  • How often do we really ever listen without giving advice?

    通常他們也不會給任何建議。

  • It's actually quite hard.

    我們有多常只是傾聽而不給建議?

  • Quite often on the phone calls, an older person would say,

    這其實很不容易。

  • "Could you give me some advice, please?"

    常常,在電話上,老人會說:

  • And 20 minutes later, they say, "Thank you for your advice,"

    「能請你給我一點建議嗎?」

  • and we realize we haven't given any.

    二十分鐘後,他們會說: 「謝謝你的建議。」

  • (Laughter)

    而我們都還沒有給任何建議。

  • We've listened and listened, and we haven't interrupted.

    (笑聲)

  • But to that person, maybe we have given advice.

    我們傾聽又傾聽,我們不會打岔。

  • We recently conducted a survey at The Silver Line

    但對對方而言,也許 我們就是給了建議了。

  • to 3,000 older people, to ask them what they thought of the service.

    最近,我們在銀線進行一項調查,

  • And one person quite simply came back and said,

    對象是三千名老人,詢問 他們對這項服務的看法。

  • for the first time in her life,

    有一個人很簡單地回應說,

  • she had what we would call in the sport cricket a wicketkeeper,

    這是她人生中第一次,

  • and what you would call in baseball, a catcher.

    她有了一個我們在板球 運動中說的守門手,

  • I've been here 48 hours, and I'm talking American.

    你們在棒球中說的捕手。

  • They will not recognize me when I get home.

    我在這裡才兩天 就開始說美語了(棒球),

  • (Laughter)

    我回家後他們大概認不得我了。

  • But for the first time in her life, she had that catcher,

    (笑聲)

  • which is really, really important.

    但,那是人生中她 第一次有了一個捕手,

  • And now it's come full circle, because actually,

    這點非常非常重要。

  • people that are calling Silver Line and needing a catcher

    現在成了一個完整的圓,

  • are now becoming catchers themselves by putting something back

    因為其實打銀線電話 且需要捕手的人,

  • and becoming volunteers and becoming part of our family.

    現在透過回饋、透過當志工、

  • So I end my talk, really, where I started, talking about my own personal experience.

    透過成為我們家庭的一部分, 讓自己也成了捕手。

  • Because when I talk about my life, I often say that I've been lucky.

    所以,這場演說的尾聲,要再 回到一開始我自己的個人經驗。

  • And people generally ask me why.

    因為,當我談及我的人生時, 我通常都會說我很幸運。

  • And it's because, at every stage of my life,

    一般來說,人們都會問我為什麼。

  • I have been lucky enough to have someone alongside me at the right time

    因為在我人生中的每個階段,

  • who maybe has believed in me,

    我都夠幸運,在對的時間,

  • which in turn has helped me

    有著或許相信著我的人在我身邊,

  • just to believe a little bit more in myself, which has been so important.

    這就協助了我

  • And everyone needs a catcher at some point in their lives.

    讓我能多相信自己一點點, 而這是非常重要的。

  • This is my catcher.

    每個人總會在人生的某個 時候會需要一個捕手。

  • So that's Pam.

    這是我的捕手。

  • And she answered the call to me

    那是潘姆。

  • when I was that 14-year-old in the phone box, over 30 years ago.

    她接起了我的電話,

  • So never, ever underestimate the power of a simple human connection.

    那是三十多年前,當時我十四歲, 在電話亭裡打了電話。

  • Because it can be and so often is the power to save a life.

    所以,永遠不要低估了 簡單人類連結的力量。

  • Thank you.

    因為它可以是,也常常真的是 拯救一條生命的力量。

  • (Applause)

    謝謝。

After cutting her arm with a broken glass,

譯者: Lilian Chiu 審譯者: Marssi Draw

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【TED】索菲-安德魯斯。最好的幫助方式往往只是傾聽(The best way to help is often just to listen | Sophie Andrews)。 (【TED】Sophie Andrews: The best way to help is often just to listen (The best way to help is often just to listen | Sophie Andrews))

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    Zenn 發佈於 2021 年 01 月 14 日
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