Name: TED】格雷琴-卡爾森、大衛-布魯克斯:兩極化美國的政治共同點（Political common ground in a polarized United States | Gretchen Carlson, David Brooks）。 (【TED】Gretchen Carlson, David Brooks: Political common ground in a polarized United States (Political common ground in a polarized Unit
Uploaded: 2021-01-14T07:31:17.000Z
Duration: 47 min 34 s

Chris Anderson: Welcome to this next edition of TED Dialogues.

We're trying to do some bridging here today.

克里斯·安德森（CA）： 歡迎來到新一期的 TED 對話。

You know, the American dream has inspired millions of people

今天我們準備溝通天地，連接你我。

大家都知道，多年來美國夢激勵了

Today, I think, you can say that America is divided,

而如今，我覺得可以說美國是分裂的，

and the divisions seem to be getting worse.

It's actually really hard for people on different sides

Some families can't even speak to each other right now.

Our purpose in this dialogue today is to try to do something about that,

當下的有些家庭甚至互不講話。

to try to have a different kind of conversation,

這個對話的目的就是為此做點什麼，

to do some listening, some thinking, some understanding.

And I have two people with us to help us do that.

They're not going to come at this hammer and tong against each other.

今天將有兩位嘉賓 來幫助我們一起做這件事。

This is two people who have both spent a lot of their working life

這裡也不像有線電視新聞節目。

in the political center or right of the center.

They've immersed themselves in conservative worldviews, if you like.

持政治中立或者中立稍偏右態度。

你也可以理解為，他們 沉浸在保守的世界觀中，

how to think about what is happening right now,

and whether we can find new ways to bridge

and just to have wiser, more connected conversations.

只為了建立更睿智、更有效的溝通。

who has spent a decade working at Fox News,

hosting "Fox and Friends" and then "The Real Story,"

before taking a courageous stance in filing sexual harassment claims

which eventually led to his departure from Fox News.

她先是主持《福克斯和朋友們》， 然後主持《實話實説》新聞節目，

她的指控最終導致 羅傑斯·艾爾斯離開福克斯新聞。

of many of [The New York Times's] left-leaning readers

and more recently, perhaps, some of the right-leaning readers

《紐約時報》左傾讀者的憤怒；

because of his criticism of some aspects of Trump.

就在最近，可能因其 對川普某些方面的批評，

有些右傾讀者 也加入聲討他的行列中。

the top one, two or three most-read content of the day

because they bring psychology and social science

to providing understanding for what's going on.

因為他從心理學和社會科學角度，

So without further ado, a huge welcome to Gretchen and David.

話不多說，熱烈歡迎葛蕾琴和大偉。

Sixty-three million Americans voted for Donald Trump.

6300 萬的美國人選出了唐納•川普，

Gretchen Carlson: There are a lot of reasons, in my mind, why it happened.

I mean, I think it was a movement of sorts, but it started long ago.

葛蕾琴：在我看來， 有很多因素導致為什麼會這樣。

我是想說這是一種運動， 但早些年就開始了，

"Anger" would be the first word that I would think of --

anger with nothing being done in Washington,

「憤怒」是我想到的第一個詞，

I think there was a huge swath of the population

對自己的聲音沒人理會感到憤怒。

that feels like Washington never listens to them,

我覺得有一大群怒火中燒的人，

you know, a good part of the middle of America, not just the coasts,

感覺政府從來不聽他們的心聲；

and he was somebody they felt was listening to their concerns.

有很大一部分是美國中部的， 不只是在沿海地區，

So I think those two issues would be the main reason.

川普讓這些人覺得 他在傾聽他們的訴求。

所以我認為這兩個是主要原因。

I think that had a huge impact on Donald Trump becoming president.

我認為這對唐納•川普 成為總統有很大的影響。

In 2015 and early 2016, I wrote about 30 columns

大偉（CB）：是的，我認為有道理。

在 2015 年和 2016 年初， 我大概寫了 30 篇專欄文章，

don't worry, Donald Trump will never be the Republican nominee.

別擔心，唐納•川普 不會被共和黨提名。

And having done that and gotten that so wrong,

I decided to spend the ensuing year just out in Trumpworld,

and I found a lot of economic dislocation.

我決定接下來一年專注於川普世界，

I ran into a woman in West Virginia who was going to a funeral for her mom.

She said, "The nice thing about being Catholic is we don't have to speak,

我在維吉尼亞州遇到一位女士， 她要去參加母親的葬禮。

and that's good, because we're not word people."

她說：「身為天主教徒的好處 是我們不必說話，

That phrase rung in my head: word people.

這很好，因為我們不是 善於舞文弄墨的人。」

A lot of us in the TED community are word people,

那句話一直在我腦海裡迴響： 舞文弄墨的人。

but if you're not, the economy has not been angled toward you,

我們 TED 論壇很多人 都是和文字打交道的，

and so 11 million men, for example, are out of the labor force

如果不是，經濟不會站在你這邊；

You used to be able to say, "I'm not the richest person in the world,

你以前會說： 「我不是世界上最有錢的，

but my neighbors can count on me and I get some dignity out of that."

And because of celebritification or whatever, if you're not rich or famous,

但鄰居們可以仰賴我， 我也以此為傲。」

要不是遇上烏鴉 變鳳凰這些個有的沒的，

And a lot of moral injury, sense of feeling betrayed,

倘若沒錢無名，你覺得 自己被當成空氣了。

and frankly, in this country, we almost have one success story,

還有道德上的傷害，感覺被背叛了，

which is you go to college, get a white-collar job, and you're a success,

坦率地說，在這個國家， 我們幾乎有個成功的故事：

那就是你上完大學， 找份白領的工作，你就是成功的；

and when I talked to Trump voters and still do,

I found most of them completely realistic about his failings,

我問起川普的選民， 現在也還在問，

我發現大多數人 對他的失敗都超現實，

GC: And yet I predicted that he would be the nominee,

and one of the things he did extremely well

that President Obama also did extremely well,

TED】格雷琴-卡爾森、大衛-布魯克斯:兩極化美國的政治共同點（Political common ground in a polarized United States | Gretchen Carlson, David Brooks）。 (【TED】Gretchen Carlson, David Brooks: Political common ground in a polarized United States (Political common ground in a polarized Unit

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