so that I could participate in Far Right youth camp in Hungary.

在 2011 年，我改了名字，

I was doing a PhD looking at youth political socialization --

這樣我才能參與 在匈牙利的極右派青年營。

why young people were developing political ideologies

我當時在攻讀博士， 研究青年政治社會主義化──

in a post-communist setting,

為什麼在後共產主義的背景下，

and I saw that a lot of young people I was talking to

年輕人會發展出政治意識形態，

were joining the Far Right,

我和很多年輕人談過，我看見他們

and this was astounding to me.

加入極右派，

So I wanted to enroll in this youth camp

這讓我很吃驚。

to get a better understanding of why people were joining.

所以我想要參加這個青年營，

So a colleague enrolled me,

進一步了解為什麼人們會加入。

and my last name sounds a little bit too Jewish.

一位同事幫我加入了，

So Erin got turned into Iréna,

而我的姓氏聽起來太有猶太味，

and Saltman got turned into Sós,

所以艾琳被換成艾琳娜，

which means "salty" in Hungarian.

沙特曼被換成沙許，

And in Hungarian, your last name goes first,

它在匈牙利語的意思是「鹹的」。

so my James Bond name turned into "Salty Irena,"

匈牙利語會把姓氏放在前面，

which is not something I would have naturally chosen for myself.

所以我的詹姆士龐德（情報員） 假名就成了「鹹的艾琳娜」，

But going to this camp,

這不是個我會幫自己選的名字。

I was further shocked to realize that it was actually really fun.

但，參加這個青年營，

They talked very little about politics.

讓我進一步感到震驚， 因為我發現它其實很好玩。

It was mostly learning how to ride horses,

他們很少談政治。

shooting a bow and arrow,

主要是在學如何騎馬、

live music at night,

如何射箭，

free food and alcohol,

晚上有現場音樂表演，

also some air-gun target practice

食物和酒精飲料都免費，

using mainstream politicians' faces as targets.

還有空氣槍的打靶練習，

And this seemed like a very, actually, friendly, inclusive group

用主流政治人物的臉當目標。

until you started talking or mentioning anything to do with the Roma population,

這其實感覺就像是個 非常友善、包容的團體，

Jewish people or immigrants,

但當你開始談到或提到和吉普賽人口、 猶太人、或移民相關的事時，

and then the discourse would become very hate-based very quickly.

就不是這樣好玩了，

So it led me into my work now,

交談接著就馬上會變成 以恨意為基礎。

where we pose the question,

它導致我開始做現在的這個研究，

"Why do people join violent extremist movements,

在這研究中我們提出一個問題：

and how do we effectively counter these processes?"

「為什麼人們要加入 暴力極端主義運動、

In the aftermath of horrible atrocities and attacks

以及我們如何有效地 對抗這些過程？」

in places like Belgium, France, but all over the world,

在發生在比利時、法國、全世界的

sometimes it's easier for us to think,

恐怖暴行和攻擊的餘波中，

"Well, these must be sociopaths,

有時我們這樣想會比較容易：

these must be naturally violent individuals.

「這些人一定是反社會者，

They must have something wrong with their upbringing."

這些人一定天性就很暴力。

And what's really tragic

他們在養育過程中一定有出問題。」

is that oftentimes there's no one profile.

很不幸的是，

Many people come from educated backgrounds,

通常，他們並非特定形象的人。

different socioeconomic backgrounds,

許多人來自受過教育的背景，

men and women, different ages,

來自不同的社會經濟背景，

some with families, some single.

有男有女，年齡都不同，

So why? What is this allure?

有些人有家庭，有些人單身，

And this is what I want to talk you through,

所以……為什麼？誘因是什麼？

as well as how do we challenge this in a modern era?

我來這裡就是想與大家談這點、

We do know, through research,

以及在現代我們要如何挑戰它？

that there are quite a number of different things

透過研究，我們確實知道

that affect somebody's process of radicalization,

有許多樣不同的因素

and we categorize these into push and pull factors.

會影響人的激進化過程，

And these are pretty much similar for Far Right, neo-Nazi groups

我們把這些因素分類為 「推式」和「拉式」因素。

all the way to Islamist extremist and terrorist groups.

從極右派、新納粹團體、 一路到伊斯蘭極端主義

And push factors are basically what makes you vulnerable

及恐怖分子團體， 都是很類似的情況。

to a process of radicalization,

推式因素基本上是指讓你脆弱、

to joining a violent extremist group.

讓你容易被激進化過程影響的因素，

And these can be a lot of different things,

因而會加入暴力極端主義團體。

but roughly, a sense of alienation, a sense of isolation,

可能的因素有很多，

questioning your own identity,

不過，大致上來說， 包括疏離感、孤立感、

but also feeling that your in-group is under attack,

執疑你自己的身份、

and your in group might be based on a nationality or an ethnicity

還有感覺到你的小團體受到攻擊，

or a religion,

而你的小團體可能是指 同民族、同人種、

and feeling that larger powers around you are doing nothing to help.

同宗教的人，

Now, push factors alone do not make you a violent extremist,

並覺得你周圍比你更強大的 那些力量都沒有出手幫忙。

because if that were the fact,

單有推式因素並不會 讓你變成暴力的極端主義者，

those same factors would go towards a group like the Roma population,

因為如果是那樣的話，

and they're not a violently mobilized group.

像吉普賽人這類的團體 也應該會有這些因素，

So we have to look at the pull factors.

而他們並不是個 有暴力行動傾向的團體。

What are these violent extremist organizations offering

所以我們也得要看拉式因素。

that other groups are not offering?

這些暴力極端主義組織提供了什麼

And actually, this is usually very positive things,

是其他團體沒有提供的？

very seemingly empowering things,

事實上，答案通常 是些很正面的事物，

such as brotherhood and sisterhood

似乎很能夠賦權的事物，

and a sense of belonging,

比如兄弟情誼、姐妹情誼、

as well as giving somebody a spiritual purpose,

以及歸屬感，

a divine purpose to build a utopian society

以及給人一個靈性的目的，

if their goals can be met,

一個神聖的目的， 如果這個目的能達成，

but also a sense of empowerment and adventure.

就能建立一個烏托邦社會，

When we look at foreign terrorist fighters,

另外也有賦權和冒險的感覺。

we see young men with the wind in their hair

當我們去看外國的恐怖份子鬥士，

out in the desert and women going to join them

我們看到的是沙漠上 自由自在的年輕人，

to have nuptials out in the sunset.

且女人也去加入他們，

It's very romantic, and you become a hero.

在日落時分舉行婚禮。

For both men and women, that's the propaganda being given.

那很浪漫，你變成了英雄。

So what extremist groups are very good at

對男人和女人用的宣傳都一樣。

is taking a very complicated, confusing, nuanced world

所以極端主義團體非常擅長的是

and simplifying that world into black and white,

把一個非常複雜、困惑、微妙的世界

good and evil.

簡化成只有黑與白、

And you become what is good,

正與邪。

challenging what is evil.

你會在好人的一方，

So I want to talk a little bit about ISIS, Daesh,

挑戰邪惡的一方。

because they have been a game changer in how we look at these processes,

我想要談一下 ISIS、伊斯蘭國，

and through a lot of the material and their tactics.

因為針對我們如何看待這些過程， 他們算是改變遊戲規則的人，

They're very much a modern movement.

他們透過很多素材和戰術來做到。

One of the aspects is the internet and the usage of social media,

他們可說是個現代的運動。

as we've all seen in headlines tweeting and videos of beheadings.

其中一個面向是網際網路， 社交媒體的運用，

But the internet alone does not radicalize you.

我們已經在關於斬首的推特頭條 以及影片中看過這現象了。

The internet is a tool.

但光只有網際網路 並不會讓你變激進。

You don't go online shopping for shoes

網際網路只是工具。

and accidentally become a jihadist.

你不會上網買了鞋子之後

However, what the Internet does do is it is a catalyst.

就突然變成聖戰士。

It provides tools and scale and rapidity

然而，網際網路的確是種催化劑。

that doesn't exist elsewhere.

它提供工具、規模、迅速性，

And with ISIS, all of a sudden,

而這些都是其他地方沒有的。

this idea of a cloaked, dark figure of a jihadist changed for us.

在 ISIS 的例子中則是，

All of a sudden, we were in their kitchens.

對我們來說，聖戰士的這個 披斗篷黑暗形象突然改變了。

We saw what they were eating for dinner.

突然間，我們在他們的廚房裡，

They were tweeting.

我們看見他們晚餐吃些什麼。

We had foreign terrorist fighters tweeting in their own languages.

他們會用推特。

We had women going out there talking about their wedding day,

我們會看到外國恐怖份子鬥士 用他們自己的語言在推特。

about the births of their children.

有女人在那裡談論她們的結婚日，

We had gaming culture, all of a sudden,

談論她們孩子的出生。

and references to Grand Theft Auto being made.

突然間還有遊戲文化，

So all of a sudden, they were homey.

還會提及到俠盜獵車手系列。

They became human.

所以，突然間，他們就成了自己人。

And the problem is that trying to counter it,

他們變成了人類。

lots of governments and social media companies

問題是，許多社交媒體公司

just tried to censor.

和政府試圖對抗它的方式，

How do we get rid of terrorist content?

就只是做審查。

And it became a cat-and-mouse game

我們要如何除去恐怖主義的內容？

where we would see accounts taken down and they'd just come back up,

它變成了貓捉老鼠的遊戲，

and an arrogance around somebody having a 25th account

在遊戲中，我們看到帳號 被關閉但又馬上東山再起，

and material that was disseminated everywhere.

也看到有人對開了 第 25 個帳號沾沾自喜，

But we also saw a dangerous trend --

也會看到素材被到處傳播。

violent extremists know the rules and regulations of social media, too.

但我們也看到一個危險的趨勢──

So we would see a banal conversation with a recruiter

暴力極端主義者也知道 社交媒體的規則和規定。

start on a mainstream platform,

所以我們可以看見與 招聘人員的平凡對話，

and at the point at which that conversation

就直接在主流平台上開始進行，

was going to become illegal,

在某個時點，這個對話就會

they would jump to a smaller, less regulated,

變成非法的，

more encrypted platform.

他們就會跳到一個較小、較沒管理、

So all of a sudden, we couldn't track where that conversation went.

較多加密的平台。

So this is a problem with censorship,

突然間，我們就無法 追縱那對話到哪去了。

which is why we need to develop alternatives to censorship.

這就是審查制度的問題，

ISIS is also a game-changer because it's state-building.

也是為何我們需要發展 審查制度以外的替代方案。

It's not just recruiting combatants;

ISIS 之所以能改變遊戲規則， 也是因為它在建立國家。

it's trying to build a state.

它不只是在徵召戰士；

And what that means is all of a sudden,

它是在試圖建立一個國家。

your recruitment model is much more broad.

那意味著，突然間，

You're not just trying to get fighters --

你的徵召模型就廣泛許多。

now you need architects, engineers, accountants, hackers and women.

你並不只需要戰士──

We've actually seen a huge increase of women going

你還需要建築師、工程師、 會計、駭客、女人。

in the last 24, but especially 12 months.

我們確實看到，在過去 24 個月，

Some countries, one in four of the people going over to join

特別是過去 12 個月， 加入的女性人數大增。

are now women.

在某些國家，去加入的人當中，

And so, this really changes

四個就有一個是女性。

who we're trying to counter this process with.

這真的改變了

Now, not all doom and gloom.

我們在對抗這個過程時所涉及的人。

So the rest I'd like to talk about some of the positive things

並非完全沒希望。

and the new innovation in trying to prevent and counter violent extremism.

所以在剩下的時間中， 我想談些正面的東西、

Preventing is very different than countering,

以及在試著預防和對抗 暴力極端主義方面的創新。

and actually, you can think of it in medical terms.

預防和對抗是非常不同的，

So preventative medicine is,

其實，各位可以用醫學用語來看它。

how do we make it so you are naturally resilient

預防性的藥是

to this process of radicalization,

我們要如何做，才能讓你從

whereas that is going to be different

激進化的過程當中自然恢復，

if somebody is already showing a symptom or a sign

這就不同於

of belonging to a violent extremist ideology.

已經出現暴力極端主義 意識形態的症狀或徵兆的人。

And so in preventative measures,

所以，在預防措施上，

we're talking more about really broad groups of people

我們會更考量更廣泛的族群，

and exposure to ideas

及對想法更廣泛的接觸，

to make them resilient.

來讓他們能夠恢復。

Whereas it's very different

這非常不同於

if somebody is starting to question and agree with certain things online,

有人開始在線上執疑 並同意某些東西的情況，

and it's also very different if somebody already has a swastika tattoo

也非常不同於有人身上 已經有「卍」字刺青的情況，

and is very much embedded within a group.

及已深植在一個團體中的情況。

How do you reach them?

要如何觸及到這些人？

So I'd like to go through three examples of each one of those levels

針對這三個層級， 我會各舉一個例子。

and talk you through

帶大家了解

what some of the new ways of engaging with people are becoming.

跟這些人互動的一些 新方式變成什麼樣子。

One is "Extreme Dialogue,"

其一是「極端對話」，

and it's an educational program that we helped develop.

它是一個我們協助 發展出來的教育專案。

This one is from Canada,

這個是來自加拿大，

and it's meant to create dialogues within a classroom setting,

目的是要在教室的環境中創造對話，

using storytelling,

用說故事的方式，

because violent extremism can be very hard to try to explain,

因為試著解釋暴力 極端主義可能是很困難的，

especially to younger individuals.

特別是對年輕人解釋。

So we have a network of former extremists and survivors of extremism

所以我們有一個前極端主義者 與極端主義存活者的網路，

that tell their stories through video and create question-giving to classrooms,

透過影片來說他們的故事， 創造提出問題的教室，

to start a conversation about the topic.

來開啟和這個主題有關的對話。

These two examples show Christianne,

這兩個例子中的是克莉斯坦，

who lost her son,

她失去了兒子，

who radicalized and died fighting for ISIS,

她兒子激進化並為 ISIS 戰死，

and Daniel is a former neo-Nazi

還有前新納粹主義者丹尼爾，

who was an extremely violent neo-Nazi,

他以前是極暴力的新納粹主義者，

and they pose questions about their lives and where they're at and regret,

他們提出關於他們人生的問題， 以及他們有什麼樣的悔恨，

and force a classroom to have a dialogue around it.

迫使教室中的人 針對此事來進行對話。

Now, looking at that middle range of individuals,

看看中間範圍的個人，

actually, we need a lot of civil society voices.

其實，我們需要 很多公民社會的聲音。

How do you interact with people that are looking for information online,

你要如何和在線上找資訊的人、

that are starting to toy with an ideology,

開始半假半真地考慮 一種意識形態的人、

that are doing those searching identity questions?

及提出關於尋找身份 相關問題的人互動？

How do we provide alternatives for that?

我們要如何對此提供替代方案？

And that's when we combine large groups of civil society voices

所以我們需要結合代表 公民社會聲音的大型團體，

with creatives, techies, app developers, artists, comedians,

結合創意者、技術專家、應用程式 開發者、藝術家、喜劇演員，

and we can create really specified content

我們能創造出非常明確的內容，

and actually, online, disseminate it to very strategic audiences.

放在線上，傳播給 非常關鍵的觀眾群，

So one example would be creating a satirical video

一個例子是製作諷刺影片，

which makes fun of Islamophobia,

拿伊斯蘭恐懼症來開玩笑，

and targeting it to 15- to 20-year-olds online

目標為 15 到 20 歲的觀眾，

that have an interest in white power music

對於白人至上音樂感興趣，

and live specifically in Manchester.

且很明確是住在曼徹斯特的。

We can use these marketing tools to be very specific,

我們可以用這些行銷工具 來針對非常明確的目標，

so that we know when somebody's viewing, watching

讓我們知道何時 有人在瀏覽、在觀看，

and engaging with that content,

和內容有所連結，

it's not just the average person, it's not me or you --

並不只是一般人，不是我或你──

it's a very specific audience that we are looking to engage with.

是非常明確的觀眾， 我們想要接觸到的特定觀眾。

Even more downstream, we developed a pilot program called "One to One,"

即使在較下流處，我們也開發了 一個前導專案「一個對一個」，

where we took former extremists

我們找來前極端主義者，

and we had them reach out directly to a group of labeled neofascists

並讓他們直接去接觸被標籤為 新法西斯主義以及伊斯蘭

as well as Islamist extremists,

極端份子的團體，

and put direct messages through Facebook Messenger into their inbox, saying,

用臉書簡訊直接 發送訊息給他們，說：

"Hey, I see where you're going. I've been there.

「嘿，我知道你打算做什麼， 我有這樣的經驗。

If you want to talk, I'm here."

如果你想談談，我在這裡。」

Now, we kind of expected death threats from this sort of interaction.

我們也預期這類互動 會帶來死亡威脅。

It's a little alarming to have a former neo-Nazi say, "Hey, how are you?"

聽到一位前新納粹對你說 「嘿，你好嗎？」

But actually, we found that around 60 percent

是還蠻讓人不安的。

of the people reached out to responded,

但其實我們發現，

and of that, around another 60 percent had sustained engagement,

我們接觸的人中， 約 60% 的人會做出回應，

meaning that they were having conversations

這些人當中，又有 60% 有持續接觸下去，

with the hardest people to reach about what they were going through,

也就是說他們繼續和 最難接觸到的人進行交談，

planting seeds of doubt

在談他們的經歷，

and giving them alternatives for talking about these subjects,

種下懷疑的種子，

and that's really important.

提供他們可以談論 這些主題的替代方案，

So what we're trying to do

那是非常重要的。

is actually bring unlikely sectors to the table.

所以我們試圖做的，

We have amazing activists all over the world,

其實是去幫助不太可能的部門。

but oftentimes, their messages are not strategic

在全世界，我們有很棒的活躍份子，

or they don't actually reach the audiences they want to reach.

但通常，他們的訊息不是策略性的，

So we work with networks of former extremists.

或者他們其實不會接觸到 他們想要接觸的觀眾，

We work with networks of young people in different parts of the world.

所以我們和前極端份子的網路合作。

And we work with them to bring the tech sector to the table