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  • Translator: Joseph Geni Reviewer: Morton Bast

    譯者: Harrison Chang 審譯者: Cherry Huang

  • I do want to test this question we're all interested in:

    試問一個大家都有興趣的問題

  • Does extinction have to be forever?

    絕種這回事是否絕對是永久的呢?

  • I'm focused on two projects I want to tell you about.

    我想告訴你們兩個我所關注的計畫

  • One is the Thylacine Project.

    一個是關於袋狼

  • The other one is the Lazarus Project,

    一個是拉薩魯計劃

  • and that's focused on the gastric-brooding frog.

    一個關於胃育溪蟾的計畫

  • And it would be a fair question to ask,

    大家可能會問

  • why have we focused on these two animals?

    為什麼我們要關注在這兩種動物上

  • Well, point number one, each of them represents a unique family of its own.

    首先是因為牠們能

  • We've lost a whole family.

    代表各自所屬的特殊的科別

  • That's a big chunk of the global genome gone.

    我們已經失去這科別中所有的成員

  • I'd like it back.

    一個不小的全面性基因庫就此消失

  • The second reason is that we killed these things.

    而我想要它再展從前之盛況

  • In the case of the thylacine, regrettably, we shot every one that we saw.

    第二個原因是因為 我們就是這個問題的肇事者

  • We slaughtered them.

    在袋狼的例子中,很不幸地

  • In the case of the gastric-brooding frog, we may have "fungicided" it to death.

    我們屠殺了牠們

  • There's a dreadful fungus that's moving through the world

    而在胃育溪蟾的例子中

  • that's called the chytrid fungus,

    我們可能讓"真菌"殺了牠們

  • and it's nailing frogs all over the world.

    有一種散布於世界上的可怕真菌

  • We think that's probably what got this frog,

    叫做"蛙壺菌"

  • and humans are spreading this fungus.

    它感染了遍佈世界各地的蛙類

  • And this introduces a very important ethical point,

    我們認為這也許是胃育溪蟾滅絕的主因

  • and I think you will have heard this many times

    而人類正是散播這些真菌的始作俑者

  • when this topic comes up.

    而這引出了很重要的道德觀點

  • What I think is important

    我相信你們已經聽過很多次

  • is that, if it's clear that we exterminated these species,

    當滅絕的議題被提出來

  • then I think we not only have a moral obligation

    我認為重要的是

  • to see what we can do about it,

    我們過去是否清楚地研究這些物種

  • but I think we've got a moral imperative to try to do something, if we can.

    此外我認為我們不僅因為義務

  • OK. Let me talk to you about the Lazarus Project.

    看看我們還能做什麼,只要我們有能力

  • It's a frog. And you think, frog.

    我們有道德上的責任必須試著做些什麼

  • Yeah, but this was not just any frog.

    那我們來談談拉魯薩計畫

  • Unlike a normal frog, which lays its eggs in the water

    這是青蛙,是的,青蛙

  • and goes away and wishes its froglets well,

    但卻不是一般的青蛙

  • this frog swallowed its fertilized eggs,

    不像一般的青蛙只是把蛋產在水裡

  • swallowed them into the stomach, where it should be having food,

    然後就任其生長

  • didn't digest the eggs, and turned its stomach into a uterus.

    胃育溪蟾會把受精卵

  • In the stomach, the eggs went on to develop into tadpoles,

    吞到本來應該要裝滿食物胃中

  • and in the stomach, the tadpoles went on to develop into frogs,

    卻不消化這些蛋

  • and they grew in the stomach

    而把胃當成子宮

  • until eventually the poor old frog was at risk of bursting apart.

    蛋便在胃裡發育成蝌蚪

  • It has a little cough and a hiccup, and out comes sprays of little frogs.

    並且就在胃裡長成幼蛙

  • Now, when biologists saw this, they were agog.

    他們在胃中長大直到

  • They thought, this is incredible.

    可憐的母蛙冒著被撐破的危險

  • No animal, let alone a frog, has been known to do this,

    在咳嗽或打嗝時使得

  • to change one organ in the body into another.

    幼蛙被噴出

  • And you can imagine the medical world went nuts over this as well.

    現在,當生物學家看到這時 他們感到無比的震撼

  • If we could understand

    紛紛不敢置信

  • how that frog is managing the way its tummy works,

    除了青蛙之外,從來沒有動物能做到這件事

  • is there information here that we need to understand

    改變一個器官的功能

  • or could usefully use to help ourselves?

    可想而知醫界限入瘋狂

  • Now, I'm not suggesting we want to raise our babies in our stomach,

    如果我們能夠了解 胃育溪蟾的胃如何運作

  • but I am suggesting it's possible

    那麼將會有許多資訊

  • we might want to manage gastric secretion in the gut.

    我們必須盡一步了解甚至運用

  • And just as everybody got excited about it, bang!

    來幫助更多人

  • It was extinct.

    我並不是說要把嬰兒養在胃裡

  • I called up my friend,

    而是我們可能可以了解

  • Professor Mike Tyler in the University of Adelaide.

    胃在內臟裡的分泌物

  • He was the last person who had this frog, a colony of these things, in his lab.

    當大家都對此感到興奮時,碰

  • And I said, "Mike, by any chance --" This was 30 or 40 years ago.

    胃育溪蟾絕種了

  • "By any chance had you kept any frozen tissue of this frog?"

    我打給我朋友,邁克泰勒教授

  • And he thought about it,

    在阿德雷得大學

  • and he went to his deep freezer, minus 20 degrees centigrade,

    他是最後一個曾有這種青蛙的人

  • and he poured through everything in the freezer,

    在他的實驗室中曾有ㄧ群這種青蛙

  • and there in the bottom was a jar and it contained tissues of these frogs.

    我說"麥克,有無可能

  • This was very exciting,

    這是30到40年前的事

  • but there was no reason why we should expect that this would work,

    有無可能你還留著胃育溪蟾的組織

  • because this tissue had not had any antifreeze put in it,

    他想了想,到了他那負二十度

  • cryoprotectants, to look after it when it was frozen.

    的大冰箱

  • And normally, when water freezes, as you know, it expands,

    把所有東西都拿出來

  • and the same thing happens in a cell.

    在最底層是一個罐子

  • If you freeze tissues, the water expands, damages or bursts the cell walls.

    裝著一些青蛙的組織

  • Well, we looked at the tissue under the microscope.

    這非常令人振奮

  • It actually didn't look bad. The cell walls looked intact.

    但我們確沒有理由確信這會行的通

  • So we thought, let's give it a go.

    因為這組織沒有摻入防凍劑

  • What we did is something called somatic cell nuclear transplantation.

    低溫防護劑,確保冷凍樣品的狀況

  • We took the eggs of a related species, a living frog,

    普遍來說,水結冰時會膨脹

  • and we inactivated the nucleus of the egg.

    一樣的事也發生在細胞中

  • We used ultraviolet radiation to do that.

    若將組織冰動,其中的水會膨脹

  • And then we took the dead nucleus from the dead tissue of the extinct frog

    傷害或撐破細胞壁

  • and we inserted those nuclei into that egg.

    當我們從顯微鏡下看組織時

  • Now, by rights, this is kind of like a cloning project,

    竟然看起來不差。細胞壁完好無缺

  • like what produced Dolly,

    於是我們想,試試無妨

  • but it's actually very different,

    我們所作的稱為

  • because Dolly was live sheep into live sheep cells.

    體細胞核移植

  • That was a miracle, but it was workable.

    我們拿了一隻活的,有血緣關係的卵

  • What we're trying to do is take a dead nucleus from an extinct species

    然後使其核失去作用

  • and put it into a completely different species and expect that to work.

    我們是用紫外光做到的

  • Well, we had no real reason to expect it would,

    再把胃育溪蟾的核 從死去組織中抽出來

  • and we tried hundreds and hundreds of these.

    注入失去核的活卵中

  • And just last February, the last time we did these trials,

    這樣看起來的確有點像 基因復製的過程

  • I saw a miracle starting to happen.

    像桃莉羊那樣,但其實是很不一樣的

  • What we found was most of these eggs didn't work,

    因為桃莉是活體之間的移植

  • but then suddenly, one of them began to divide.

    那是一個行得通的奇蹟

  • That was so exciting.

    而我們做的是取出 絕種物種的死細胞核

  • And then the egg divided again. And then again.

    然後放進完全不同的物種 並期許牠能作用

  • And pretty soon, we had early-stage embryos

    我們是沒有理由期望牠會成功

  • with hundreds of cells forming those.

    在試了幾百次後

  • We even DNA-tested some of these cells,

    就在去年二月,最後ㄧ次的試驗

  • and the DNA of the extinct frog is in those cells.

    我看到了奇蹟的發生

  • So we're very excited. This is not a tadpole. It's not a frog.

    大部份的卵儘管不能作用

  • But it's a long way along the journey

    卻有一個突然開始分裂了

  • to producing, or bringing back, an extinct species.

    當它又分裂時著實令人興奮

  • And this is news.

    接著它又不斷地分裂,很快地我們有了一個

  • We haven't announced this publicly before.

    以數百個細胞組成的早期胚胎

  • We're excited.

    我們甚至對一些細胞進行DNA測試

  • We've got to get past this point.

    的確在那些細胞中 含有胃育溪蟾的DNA

  • We now want this ball of cells to start to gastrulate,

    我們感到非常興奮。那還不是蝌蚪

  • to turn in so that it will produce the other tissues.

    也還不是青蛙。但它是一個讓絕種的胃育溪蟾

  • It'll go on and produce a tadpole and then a frog.

    起死回生的偉大旅程

  • Watch this space.

    這可是一個我們從未宣布的大新聞

  • I think we're going to have this frog hopping

    對於將跨入令一個不同的階段 我們感到鼓舞

  • glad to be back in the world again.

    我們期望這團細胞球體 能進入原腸胚階段

  • (Applause)

    以繼續繁殖其他組織

  • Thank you.

    最後將成為蝌蚪然後是青蛙

  • (Applause)

    看看這空間,我相信我們能

  • We haven't done it yet, but keep the applause ready.

    讓胃育溪蟾在這裡活潑的跳來跳去

  • The second project I want to talk to you about is the Thylacine Project.

    謝謝

  • The thylacine looks a bit, to most people, like a dog,

    我們還沒做到,但那些掌聲將來會用到的

  • or maybe like a tiger, because it has stripes.

    另一個計畫是袋狼的計劃

  • But it's not related to any of those. It's a marsupial.

    牠對大多數的人來說 看起來有點像一隻狗

  • It raised its young in a pouch, like a koala or a kangaroo would do,

    或老虎,因為牠有斑紋

  • and it has a long history, a long, fascinating history,

    但牠跟那些一點關係都沒有

  • that goes back 25 million years.

    牠是有袋類。從小在袋中長大

  • But it's also a tragic history.

    就像無尾熊或袋鼠

  • The first one that we see occurs in the ancient rain forests of Australia

    而牠有一個可以追溯到2500萬年前

  • about 25 million years ago,

    久遠而美好的歷史

  • and the National Geographic Society

    但那卻也是一個悲慘的歷史

  • is helping us to explore these fossil deposits.

    第一件事是發生在2500萬年前

  • This is Riversleigh.

    澳洲的古雨林裡

  • In those fossil rocks are some amazing animals.

    國家地理協會幫忙我們

  • We found marsupial lions.

    去探勘化石沉積物。這裡是 Riverleigh

  • We found carnivorous kangaroos.

    在化石中有些令人驚艷的動物

  • It's not what you usually think about as a kangaroo,

    我們找到有袋的獅子

  • but these are meat-eating kangaroos.

    肉食性的袋鼠

  • We found the biggest bird in the world,

    並不是平常我們所見

  • bigger than that thing that was in Madagascar,

    而是真的吃肉的袋鼠

  • and it too was a flesh eater.

    還有全世界最大的鳥類

  • It was a giant, weird duck.

    比馬達加斯加的還大

  • And crocodiles were not behaving at that time either.

    牠也是一種巨大而奇怪的肉食性鴨子

  • You think of crocodiles as doing their ugly thing,

    連鱷魚當時的行為都是不太一樣的

  • sitting in a pool of water.

    你也許認為鱷魚就是髒髒的

  • These crocodiles were actually out on the land

    待在水裡

  • and they were even climbing trees and jumping on prey on the ground.

    牠們其實是在陸地上的

  • We had, in Australia, drop crocs. They really do exist.

    甚至爬到樹上然後

  • (Laughter)

    撲到獵物身上

  • But what they were dropping on was not only other weird animals

    這種會跳下來的鱷魚確實存在過,就在澳洲

  • but also thylacines.

    而牠們撲倒的其中一種生物

  • There were five different kinds of thylacines in those ancient forests,

    便是袋狼

  • and they ranged from great big ones to middle-sized ones

    在那原始林中有五種不同的袋狼

  • to one that was about the size of a chihuahua.

    從極大的到中型的

  • Paris Hilton would have been able

    到小型如吉娃娃狗的尺寸

  • to carry one of these things around in a little handbag,

    連Paris Hilton都放一隻

  • until a drop croc landed on her.

    在小手提包中帶著走

  • At any rate, it was a fascinating place,

    直到一隻鱷魚飛撲在她身上

  • but unfortunately, Australia didn't stay this way.

    無論如何,那是個令人驚奇的地方

  • Climate change has affected the world for a long period of time,

    但不幸地,澳洲並未繼續保持下去

  • and gradually, the forests disappeared, the country began to dry out,

    氣候變遷已經影響這個世界好一陣子了

  • and the number of kinds of thylacines began to decline,

    而雨林日漸消失

  • until by five million years ago,

    氣候逐漸乾燥

  • only one left.

    袋狼數量也隨之銳減

  • By 10,000 years ago, they had disappeared from New Guinea,

    到了五百萬年前只剩下一隻

  • and unfortunately, by 4,000 years ago, somebodies, we don't know who this was,

    一萬年前在新幾內亞

  • introduced dingoes -- this is a very archaic kind of a dog