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  • Well, the subject of difficult negotiation

    譯者: Serena Chang 審譯者: Shelley Krishna Tsang

  • reminds me of one of my favorite stories from the Middle East,

    講到談判的困難度的主題

  • of a man who left to his three sons, 17 camels.

    讓我想到我喜歡的一個

  • To the first son, he left half the camels;

    中東來的故事

  • to the second son, he left a third of the camels;

    一個男子給了他三個兒子17隻駱駝

  • and to the youngest son, he left a ninth of the camels.

    他把一半的駱駝給了他大兒子

  • The three sons got into a negotiation -- 17 doesn't divide by two.

    把三分之一的駱駝給他的二兒子

  • It doesn't divide by three.

    把九分之一給他的小兒子

  • It doesn't divide by nine.

    三個兒子就開始協商了

  • Brotherly tempers started to get strained.

    17沒有辦法除以2

  • Finally, in desperation,

    也沒有辦法除以3

  • they went and they consulted a wise old woman.

    沒有辦法除以9

  • The wise old woman thought about their problem for a long time,

    兄弟之間的感情就開始緊張啦

  • and finally she came back and said, "Well, I don't know if I can help you,

    最後, 他們豁出去了

  • but at least, if you want, you can have my camel."

    他們去找了一個聰明的老太太幫他們解決問題

  • So then, they had 18 camels.

    這個聰明的老太太想了很久以後

  • The first son took his half -- half of 18 is nine.

    最後她回來告訴他們

  • The second son took his third -- a third of 18 is six.

    “嗯, 我不知道我該如何幫你們,

  • The youngest son took his ninth -- a ninth of 18 is two.

    不過至少, 如果你們要的話, 你們可以拿走我的駱駝."

  • You get 17.

    所以他們有18隻駱駝

  • They had one camel left over.

    大兒子拿走了屬於他的一半--18隻的一半是9隻

  • They gave it back to the wise old woman.

    二兒子拿走了屬於他的三分之一--18隻的三分之一是六

  • (Laughter)

    小兒子拿走了屬於他的九分之一

  • Now, if you think about that story for a moment,

    18隻的九分之一是2

  • I think it resembles a lot of the difficult negotiations

    加起來正好是17

  • we get involved in.

    他們還多出了一隻駱駝

  • They start off like 17 camels, no way to resolve it.

    所以他們還給了聰明的老太太

  • Somehow, what we need to do

    (笑聲)

  • is step back from those situations, like that wise old woman,

    如果你認真的想想這個故事

  • look at the situation through fresh eyes

    我想這和大部分我們常碰到的

  • and come up with an 18th camel.

    難度高的談判類似

  • Finding that 18th camel in the world's conflicts

    剛開始的時候他們有17隻駱駝--沒有辦法解決這個難題

  • has been my life passion.

    有的時候,我們需要的是

  • I basically see humanity a bit like those three brothers.

    往後退一步想一想,就像那個聰明的老太太一樣

  • We're all one family.

    用不一樣的眼光來看待這個問題

  • We know that scientifically,

    進而選擇用18隻駱駝來解決問題

  • thanks to the communications revolution,

    現在用"18隻駱駝"的邏輯來解決世界上的紛爭

  • all the tribes on the planet -- all 15,000 tribes --

    成為我的生命志向

  • are in touch with each other.

    基本上來說, 我對待人的態度就像那三兄弟一樣

  • And it's a big family reunion.

    我們是個大家庭

  • And yet, like many family reunions,

    科學上而言, 我們也知道我們是個大家庭

  • it's not all peace and light.

    感謝大眾傳播的革命

  • There's a lot of conflict,

    每個在地球上的種族, 一萬五千個種族

  • and the question is: How do we deal with our differences?

    都可以和彼此保持聯絡

  • How do we deal with our deepest differences,

    而這就是個大家庭的團圓

  • given the human propensity for conflict

    就像大部分的家庭團聚一樣

  • and the human genius at devising weapons of enormous destruction?

    並不盡是和平和光明的

  • That's the question.

    有許多的衝突

  • As I've spent the last better part of three decades, almost four,

    問題是

  • traveling the world,

    我們該如何處裡我們之間的差異?

  • trying to work, getting involved in conflicts

    基本人們對衝突的本性

  • ranging from Yugoslavia to the Middle East

    和人類的智慧

  • to Chechnya to Venezuela --

    來解決我們之間最深層的差異?

  • some of the most difficult conflicts on the face of the planet --

    用設計精密的武器來解決巨大的破壞?

  • I've been asking myself that question.

    這就是問題

  • And I think I've found, in some ways, what is the secret to peace.

    我花了過去三十年中最精華的時間

  • It's actually surprisingly simple.

    將近四十年

  • It's not easy, but it's simple.

    在世界各地旅行著

  • It's not even new.

    試圖去解決,介入衝突之中

  • It may be one of our most ancient human heritages.

    從南斯拉夫到中東

  • The secret to peace is us.

    從車臣到委內瑞拉

  • It's us who act as a surrounding community around any conflict,

    有些是在地表上有史以來最困難的衝突

  • who can play a constructive role.

    我問過我自己這個問題

  • Let me give you just a story, an example.

    我想我藉由某些方式找到了答案

  • About 20 years ago,

    所謂和平的秘密

  • I was in South Africa, working with the parties in that conflict,

    事實上答案是令人驚訝的簡單

  • and I had an extra month,

    不是很容易, 但很簡單

  • so I spent some time living with several groups of San Bushmen.

    不只是現在

  • I was curious about them, about the way in which they resolve conflict.

    這也許是我們最古老的人類遺產

  • Because, after all, within living memory, they were hunters and gatherers,

    和平的秘密是我們

  • living pretty much like our ancestors lived

    是我們這些

  • for maybe 99 percent of the human story.

    在社區裡面對各種衝突時

  • And all the men have these poison arrows that they use for hunting --

    扮演建設性的

  • absolutely fatal.

    角色的人

  • So how do they deal with their differences?

    讓我告訴你的故事,一個例子

  • Well, what I learned is, whenever tempers rise in those communities,

    將近二十年前我在南非

  • someone goes and hides the poison arrows out in the bush,

    和一些團體處裡衝突

  • and then everyone sits around in a circle like this,

    結束後我有一個月的假

  • and they sit and they talk and they talk.

    所以我花了點時間和

  • It may take two days, three days, four days,

    一些San Bushmen的聚落住在一起

  • but they don't rest until they find a resolution

    我對於他們的生活模式和他們解決衝突的方式感到好奇

  • or better yet -- a reconciliation.

    因為,說穿了,在我們的記憶裡

  • And if tempers are still too high,

    他們是獵人和蒐集者

  • then they send someone off to visit some relatives,

    和百分之九十九的人類故事中

  • as a cooling-off period.

    我們的祖先的生活方式一樣

  • Well, that system is, I think, probably the system

    而所有的人都擁有這些可以用來狩獵的毒藥

  • that kept us alive to this point,

    絕對致命的毒藥

  • given our human tendencies.

    所以他們如何面對他們與其他人之前的差異?

  • That system, I call "the third side."

    事實上, 我從中學到了

  • Because if you think about it, normally when we think of conflict,

    當這些社區裡的人情緒開始沸騰時,

  • when we describe it,

    有些人會把毒藥藏在灌木以外的地方

  • there's always two sides --

    然後所有人坐成像這樣的一個圓圈

  • it's Arabs versus Israelis, labor versus management,

    他們坐著, 然後討論, 然後討論

  • husband versus wife, Republicans versus Democrats.

    也許會花上兩天, 三天, 四天

  • But what we don't often see

    但他們不休息

  • is that there's always a third side,

    直到他們找到解決方法

  • and the third side of the conflict is us, it's the surrounding community,

    或者更好的, 一個和解的方案

  • it's the friends, the allies,

    如果情緒仍然很高亢

  • the family members, the neighbors.

    那他們就會讓有些人休息去拜訪親戚

  • And we can play an incredibly constructive role.

    當作是讓彼此冷靜的時間

  • Perhaps the most fundamental way in which the third side can help

    這個系統是

  • is to remind the parties of what's really at stake.

    我想, 也許是讓我們活到現在的原因

  • For the sake of the kids, for the sake of the family,

    基於我們人類的天性

  • for the sake of the community, for the sake of the future,

    這個系統, 我稱它為第三方

  • let's stop fighting for a moment and start talking.

    因為如果你認真想想

  • Because, the thing is,

    通常當我們想到爭執, 當我們描述爭執時,

  • when we're involved in conflict,

    通常只有兩方面

  • it's very easy to lose perspective.

    阿拉伯對抗以色列, 勞工階層對抗管理階層

  • It's very easy to react.

    丈夫對抗妻子, 共和黨對抗民主黨

  • Human beings -- we're reaction machines.

    但我們通常看不見的是

  • And as the saying goes,

    其實這中間都有個第三方

  • when angry, you will make the best speech

    而這個爭執中的第三方是我們

  • you will ever regret.

    是周遭的社區

  • (Laughter)

    是朋友, 是夥伴

  • And so the third side reminds us of that.

    是家人, 是鄰居

  • The third side helps us go to the balcony,

    而我們能扮演一個難以置信的建設性角色

  • which is a metaphor for a place of perspective,

    應該能說最基本能讓第三方

  • where we can keep our eyes on the prize.

    來幫忙的

  • Let me tell you a little story from my own negotiating experience.

    是提醒兩方什麼才是真正重要的

  • Some years ago, I was involved as a facilitator in some very tough talks

    為了自己的小孩, 為了自己的家人

  • between the leaders of Russia and the leaders of Chechnya.

    為了整個社區, 為了未來著想

  • There was a war going on, as you know.

    停下戰鬥而開始進行談話

  • And we met in the Hague, in the Peace Palace,

    因為, 如果我們

  • in the same room where the Yugoslav war-crimes tribunal was taking place.

    介入了爭執中

  • And the talks got off to a rather rocky start

    往往很容易失去了對事物的洞察力

  • when the vice president of Chechnya began by pointing at the Russians

    其實這很容易能反應

  • and said, "You should stay right here in your seats,

    人類:我們是反應的機器

  • because you're going to be on trial for war crimes."

    而就像那句格言說的

  • And then he turned to me and said,

    當你在生氣時, 是最容易說出

  • "You're an American.

    讓你永遠後悔的話

  • Look at what you Americans are doing in Puerto Rico."

    而第三方能提醒我們這點

  • And my mind started racing, "Puerto Rico? What do I know about Puerto Rico?"

    第三方幫助我們走到陽台上

  • I started reacting.

    隱喻為我們找個能透視問題的空間

  • (Laughter)

    讓我們能把焦點集中在最後的勝利上

  • But then, I tried to remember to go to the balcony.

    讓我告訴你一個我自己談判經驗上的小故事

  • And then when he paused

    許多年前, 我在俄國的領袖

  • and everyone looked at me for a response,

    和車臣的領袖

  • from a balcony perspective, I was able to thank him for his remarks

    的高峰會談上

  • and say, "I appreciate your criticism of my country

    擔任促進會談的角色

  • and I take it as a sign that we're among friends

    正如你所知道的, 那時戰爭正在進行

  • and can speak candidly to one another."

    而我們在海牙

  • (Laughter)

    的和平宮殿裡會面

  • "And what we're here to do is not to talk about Puerto Rico or the past.

    在同個房間裡, 南斯拉夫的戰犯

  • We're here to see if we can figure out a way

    正在接受審判

  • to stop the suffering and the bloodshed in Chechnya."

    而談話從艱難的對話開始

  • The conversation got back on track.

    當車臣的副總統

  • That's the role of the third side,

    開始指著俄國人說,

  • to help the parties go to the balcony.

    “你應該好好待在你的位子上,

  • Now let me take you, for a moment,

    因為你將會參加戰犯法庭。“

  • to what's widely regarded as the world's most difficult conflict,

    然後他繼續, 然後他指著我說,

  • or the most impossible conflict, the Middle East.

    你是個美國人

  • Question is: where's the third side there?

    看看你們美國人在波多黎各幹得好事。“

  • How could we possibly go to the balcony?

    然後我的思緒開始奔跑, "波多黎各? 我對波多黎各了解多少?“

  • Now, I don't pretend to have an answer to the Middle East conflict,

    我開始回答他的談話,

  • but I think I've got a first step -- literally, a first step --

    但我試著記得走到陽台上去。

  • something that any one of us could do as third-siders.

    當他暫停談話,

  • Let me just ask you one question first.

    所有人把目光集中到我身上想看我有什麼回答

  • How many of you in the last years

    從陽台角度看來, 我能夠謝謝他的評論

  • have ever found yourself worrying about the Middle East

    然後說, “我感謝你對我的國家的批評,

  • and wondering what anyone could do?

    而我會把那當作是我們是朋友的象徵

  • Just out of curiosity, how many of you?

    所以才能率直的和對方談話

  • OK, so the great majority of us.

    我們在這裡不是為了討論波多黎各或是過去

  • And here, it's so far away.

    我們在這裡是為看我們是否能找出

  • Why do we pay so much attention to this conflict?

    結束車臣人民的受苦和流血。

  • Is it the number of deaths?

    對話回到原先的軌道上

  • There are a hundred times more people who die in a conflict in Africa

    這就是第三方的角色

  • than in the Middle East.

    為了幫助任何一方走到陽台上

  • No, it's because of the story,

    現在讓我借用你一點時間

  • because we feel personally involved in that story.

    來看看人們稱為世界上最困難的爭執

  • Whether we're Christians, Muslims or Jews, religious or non-religious,

    或者最不可能解決的爭執

  • we feel we have a personal stake in it.

    那就是中東問題

  • Stories matter;

    問題是:第三方在哪裡?

  • as an anthropologist, I know that.

    我們該如何走到陽台上?

  • Stories are what we use to transmit knowledge.

    我不想裝作我有解決中東問題

  • They give meaning to our lives.

    的答案

  • That's what we tell here at TED, we tell stories.

    但我想我知道第一步該怎麼做

  • Stories are the key.

    照字面上來講的第一步

  • And so my question is --

    是我們之中任何一位都能把自己當作第三方而做的事情

  • yes, let's try and resolve the politics there in the Middle East,

    讓我首先問你一個問題

  • but let's also take a look at the story.

    在你們之中有誰

  • Let's try to get at the root of what it's all about.

    在過去這幾年

  • Let's see if we can apply the third side to it.

    曾經煩惱過中東問題

  • What would that mean? What is the story there?

    且想過誰能解決這些問題?

  • Now, as anthropologists, we know that every culture has an origin story.

    只是好奇, 有多少人?

  • What's the origin story of the Middle East?

    好的, 大多數的人都想過這個問題

  • In a phrase, it's:

    就在這裡, 這個離中東這麼遠的地方

  • Four thousand years ago,

    為什麼我們這麼關心這個問題?

  • a man and his family walked across the Middle East,

    是因為死亡人數嗎?

  • and the world has never been the same since.

    在非洲的爭執中, 有比中東問題更多的

  • That man, of course, was Abraham.

    數以百計的人死去

  • And what he stood for was unity, the unity of the family;

    不是, 是因為故事本身

  • he's the father of us all.

    因為我們覺得是置身在

  • But it's not just what he stood for, it's what his message was.

    故事當中

  • His basic message was unity too,

    不管我們是天主教, 穆斯林, 或者猶太人

  • the interconnectedness of it all, the unity of it all.

    有信仰或者沒信仰

  • And his basic value was respect,

    我們覺得這關係到個人利益

  • was kindness toward strangers.

    故事是有關係的。 身為一個人類學家, 我很清楚的知道這點

  • That's what he's known for, his hospitality.

    故事是我們用來傳達知識的工具

  • So in that sense,

    他們給了我們的生活意義

  • he's the symbolic third side of the Middle East.

    就像我們在TED告訴你們的, 我們在講故事

  • He's the one who reminds us that we're all part of a greater whole.

    故事是重點

  • Now, think about that for a moment.

    所以我的問題是

  • Today, we face the scourge of terrorism.

    是的, 我們來試著解決在中東的

  • What is terrorism?

    政治紛爭

  • Terrorism is basically taking an innocent stranger

    但讓我們先看一下故事本身

  • and treating them as an enemy whom you kill in order to create fear.

    試著看到故事的根源和內容

  • What's the opposite of terrorism?

    試著看看我們是否使用第三方的理念

  • It's taking an innocent stranger

    那是什麼意義? 那故事會是怎樣?

  • and treating them as a friend whom you welcome into your home,

    身為人類學家, 我們知道

  • in order to sow and create understanding

    每個文化都有其起源的故事

  • or respect, or love.

    那中東的起源故事是什麼?

  • So what if, then, you took the story of Abraham,

    簡單來說就是

  • which is a third-side story,

    四千年以前, 一個男人和他的家庭

  • what if that could be --

    穿越了中東

  • because Abraham stands for hospitality --

    而世界從此就再也不一樣了

  • what if that could be an antidote to terrorism?

    那個男人當然就是

  • What if that could be a vaccine against religious intolerance?

    亞伯拉罕

  • How would you bring that story to life?

    而他代表團結

  • Now, it's not enough just to tell a story.

    一個家庭的團結

  • That's powerful, but people need to experience the story.

    他是我們大家的父親

  • They need to be able to live the story.

    但不只是他所代表的, 是他的訊息是什麼

  • How would you do that?

    他的基本訊息也是團結

  • And that was my thinking of how would you do that.

    所有的互聯性和所有的團結

  • And that's what comes to the first step here.

    而他的基本原則是尊重

  • Because the simple way to do that is:

    是對陌生人的友好

  • you go for a walk.

    這是他廣為人知的地方, 他的好客

  • You go for a walk in the footsteps of Abraham.

    所以就此而言

  • You retrace the footsteps of Abraham.

    他是中東裡的

  • Because walking has a real power.

    第三方的象徵

  • You know, as an anthropologist, walking is what made us human.

    他是提醒我們

  • It's funny -- when you walk, you walk side-by-side,

    我們都是隸屬於一個偉大的總體的那個人

  • in the same common direction.

    現在, 你要如何--

  • Now if I were to come to you face-to-face

    讓我們針對這個思考一下

  • and come this close to you,

    今天我們面臨恐怖主義的折磨

  • you would feel threatened.

    什麼是恐怖主義?

  • But if I walk shoulder-to-shoulder,

    簡單來說恐怖主義是把無辜的陌生人

  • even touching shoulders,

    像敵人一樣的傷害

  • it's no problem.

    以達到製造恐怖氣氛的目的

  • Who fights while they walk?

    那什麼是恐怖主義的相反意義?

  • That's why in negotiations, often, when things get tough,

    是把無辜的陌生人

  • people go for walks in the woods.

    像朋友一樣的對待

  • So the idea came to me of, what about inspiring a path,

    歡迎他們到你家裡

  • a route -- think the Silk Route, think the Appalachian Trail --

    以達到播下善因和互相理解

  • that followed in the footsteps of Abraham?

    或尊重, 或愛的目的

  • People said, "That's crazy. You can't.

    所以如果你能