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  • (Ray Comfort) You're an atheist?

    (Ray Comfort) 您是一個無神論者嗎?

  • I am definitely an atheist, yes.

    是的,我的確是一個無神論者。

  • (Ray Comfort) Why are you an atheist?

    (Ray Comfort) 您爲什麽是個無神論者呢?

  • Why am I an atheist? Because there is no God.

    我爲什麽是個無神論者? 因為沒有神.

  • Atheism assumes that you can disprove the existence of a God.

    無神論相信人可以證明上帝的不存在。

  • Agnostic is a more correct term, but I'm an atheist.

    不可知論者的稱謂更貼近一些,但我是個無神論者。

  • (Ray Comfort) Are you an atheist?

    (Ray Comfort) 您是個無神論者嗎?

  • - Yeah. - I am an atheist, yeah.

    - 嗯. - 我是個無神論者,是的。

  • - I am, yes. - I am.

    - 是的,我是。 - 我是。

  • (Ray Comfort) So you're not an atheist?

    (Ray Comfort) 所以您不是個無神論者?

  • No, I'm not.

    不,我不是.

  • (Ray Comfort) So you're leaning that way because of evolution?

    (Ray Comfort) 所以你傾向於無神論是因為進化論的緣故嗎?

  • Yeah.

    嗯。

  • I don't believe in the, there's a guy in the sky

    我不信有個男人在天上

  • that lives in the sky.

    且住在上面.

  • - You believe in evolution? - Of course I do, yes.

    - 您信進化論嗎? - 當然啦,我信。

  • (male narrator) "Live Science" says of Darwinian evolution:

    (Male Narrator) "Live Science-生命科學" 說道 達爾文進化論為:

  • "It can turn dinosaurs into birds, apes into humans

    "進化論證實恐龍演變成鳥類,猿類演變成人類, 21 01:01:19,167 --> 01:01:22,467 雙棲哺乳動物演變成鯨魚"

  • and amphibious mammals into whales."

    達爾文透過他對進化論以及

  • What Darwin showed in his work on evolution

    物競天擇的研究,表示了我們不必動用

  • and natural selection is that we don't need to invoke

    任何超能力

  • any supernatural force or power

    而能夠解釋世上一直以來的生命發展過程。

  • to account for the development of life through time on earth.

    就是在現今,可被觀察的演化也正在進行中。

  • The ongoing processes that are observable in today's world.

    (Ray Comfort) 你認為它是一種信念嗎?

  • (Ray Comfort) Do you think it's a belief?

    我認為它就是事實。

  • I think it's just fact.

    我認為它偏向於事實。

  • I think more like facts.

    證據太多,無法忽視。

  • There is too much evidence to ignore.

    (Ray Comfort) 您認為它是一種信念嗎?

  • (Ray Comfort) Do you think it's a belief?

    - 不, 是科學。 - 就是這樣發生的。

  • - No, it's science. - It's the way it happened.

    是合乎邏輯的。

  • It's logical.

    你知道嗎,大部份的科學家也贊同這樣的說法。

  • You know, all the scientists pretty much agree with it.

    它更像事實。

  • It's more of a fact.

    (Ray Comfort) 你是什麽時候開始信的?

  • (Ray Comfort) When did you start to believe?

    當我開始為自己想的時候。

  • When I started to think for myself.

    (Ray Comfort) 你是什麽時候開始信的?

  • (Ray Comfort) When did you start believing?

    當我修了第一堂生物課的時候。

  • When I took my first biology class.

    一切就開始合理化了。

  • It all started to make a lot of sense.

    老師教得非常易懂。

  • The teacher made it very easy to understand.

    我一般會信任科學界。

  • I generally trust the scientific community.

    它比任何宗教信仰都來的可信。

  • It makes more sense than any religion or anything.

    他們所找到的山頂洞人,古代智人

  • The fossils they have found of all the cavemen,

    及恐龍的化石-- 都是證據確鑿

  • the Homo sapiens, dinosaurs-- it shows clear evidence.

    我信科學。

  • I believe in science.

    (Ray Comfort) 你在這所大學的主修是什麽?

  • (Ray Comfort) What's your major here at this university?

    生物學.

  • Biology.

    - 你主修生物嗎? - 嗯。

  • - You're a biology major? - Yeah.

    - 你信進化論嗎? - 是的。

  • - You believe in evolution? - Yes.

    - 你主修什麽? - 地質學

  • - What's your major? - Geology.

    - 化學. - 生物化學.

  • - Chemistry. - Biochemistry.

    環保科學與政策。

  • Environmental science and policy.

    我是個物理學家。

  • I'm a physicist.

    生物化學。

  • Biochemistry.

    (Ray Comfort) 好的,你信進化論嗎?

  • (Ray Comfort) Okay, do you believe in evolution?

    是的,我信。

  • Yes, I do.

    - 你信進化論嗎? - 是的,我信。

  • - Do you believe in evolution? - Yes, I do.

    - 當然. - 是的,我信。

  • - Of course. - Yes, I do.

    我的確信進化論。

  • I do believe in evolution.

    - 你信進化論嗎? - 是的。

  • - You believe in evolution? - Yes.

    - 你非常堅信嗎? - 是的。

  • - Are you a strong believer? - Yes.

    - 你非常堅信嗎? - 嗯。

  • - Are you a strong believer? - Yep.

    - 是的。 - 是的。

  • - Yes. - Yes.

    絕對是.

  • Absolutely.

    (旁白) "[The] 科學方法是以觀察及試驗收集

  • (narrator) A Scientific method is based on "the collection

    各種數據和資料."

  • of data through observation and experimentation." -Science Daily

    (Ray Comfort) 你能否提供一些證實進化論

  • (Ray Comfort) Could you give me some observable evidence

    可觀察到的證據?

  • that evolution is true?

    一個我不用去相信而得到解答的證據?

  • Something I don't have to receive by faith?

    - 嗯. - 一些可觀察到的證據嗎?

  • - Yeah. - Some observable evidence?

    我意思是,你看看6千5百萬年前所發生的事情。

  • I mean, take a look at what happened 65 million years ago.

    (Ray Comfort) 等下, 我不能, 那是6千5百年之前的事情。.

  • (Ray Comfort) Hang on, I can't, that's 65 million years ago.

    我信, 嗯。 幾百萬年前的事。

  • I believe, yeah, millions of years.

    (Ray Comfort) 所以那是能觀察到的嗎?

  • (Ray Comfort) So that can't be observed.

    我們透過化石記錄可以追溯進化的過程。

  • We can trace the evolution through the fossil record.

    (Ray Comfort) 你能明確的給我一個例子嗎? 78 01:03:21,133 --> 01:03:24,867 介於六百萬和七百萬年前之間。

  • (Ray Comfort) Could you be specific, just give me one?

    幾十萬年至幾百萬年。

  • Between 6 and 7 million years ago.

    -所以是挺長的一段時間。 -是的。

  • Hundreds of thousands to millions of years.

    - 幾百萬年? - 是的。

  • - So it's quite a long time. - Yes.

    (Ray Comfort) 所以它能被觀察到嗎?

  • - Millions of years? - Yes.

    進化過程是不能依時間來試驗的。

  • (Ray Comfort) So it can't be observed?

    (Narrator) "我們註定只能活幾十年

  • Evolution is not testable over time.

    ,這段太慢又太微小的時間比例

  • (narrator) "We are condemned to live only for a few decades

    因而無法見到演化的過程。" 理查德·道金斯.

  • and that's too slow, too small a time scale

    "我們對於這些緩慢變化的進行,

  • to see evolution going on," Richard Dawkins.

    一點也不能覺察,除非有時代變遷的標記。"

  • "We see nothing of these slow changes in progress,

    查爾斯。達爾文.

  • until the hand of time has marked the lapse of ages..."

    (Ray Comfort) 你有犬科: 郊狼及家犬;

  • Charles Darwin.

    還有貓科: 就是貓,

  • (Ray Comfort) You've got the canine kind: the coyote and the domestic dog;

    老虎, 幼貓; 再加上人類。

  • and there's the feline kind: which is the cats,

    所以達爾文說道,在長時間的條件下,

  • the tiger, and the kitten; and you've got humankind.

    變種是會發生的,

  • So Darwin said there'd be a change of kinds

    所以你能給一個

  • over many years,

    可觀察到的變種證據嗎?

  • so could you give me one example of observable evidence

    譬如說, 化石記錄顯示

  • of a change of kinds?

    肉食動物的共同祖先

  • So for instance, the fossil record shows

    貓及狗曾經是因共同祖先

  • the common ancestors of all carnivores,

    而有所關聯的。

  • that cats and dogs were once linked,

    (Ray Comfort) 多久以前?

  • united by a common ancestor.

    我想應該是,6千萬年前。

  • (Ray Comfort) How long ago?

    (Ray Comfort) 我不想要需要用信念來接受的證據。

  • This, I believe, was, like, 60 million years ago.

    我想要能夠觀察到的。

  • (Ray Comfort) I don't want something that I have to accept by faith.

    可觀察到的證據.

  • I want it to be observable.

    我的意思是, 你就這樣在大街上問我。

  • Observable evidence.

    那關於可觀察到的證據

  • Well, I mean, if you're just asking me here on the street,

    就沒有什麽可以奉告的。

  • there's really not much I can tell you

    我們必須鑽研現有的數據和資料

  • in terms of observable evidence.

    才能歸納出個人的結論。

  • Like, we would have to really examine existing data

    (Ray Comfort) 那我們必須要心存信念是嗎?

  • to draw conclusions of our own.

    我們必須要有相同的信念。

  • (Ray Comfort) We would have to have faith, then?

    (Ray Comfort) 你能想到任何支持達爾文進化論

  • We would have to have some amount of faith.

    所提及的變種理論

  • (Ray Comfort) Can you think of any observable evidence

    的可觀察到證據?

  • for Darwinian evolution,

    (male) 像猴子變成人,你是不是在講這種變化?

  • where he said there'd be a change of kind?

    (Ray Comfort) 嗯,變種。

  • (male) Like a monkey to a man, is that what you're talking about?

    我想如今還沒有此類的證據。

  • (Ray Comfort) Yeah, a change of kinds.

    只有猴子獨有的

  • I don't really believe there's any proof for that yet.

    第五手指,像我們一樣

  • Well, monkeys are the only ones

    (Ray Comfort) 無尾熊也有第五手指,你知道嗎?

  • with the fifth digit like we have.

    (female) 我不知道。

  • (Ray Comfort) Koalas have a fifth digit. Did you know that?

    (Ray Comfort) 你覺得我們是從無尾熊演變過來的嗎?

  • (female) I didn't know that.

    不是。

  • (Ray Comfort) Do you think we're evolved from koalas?

    我到華盛頓的時候,

  • No.

    看到有整個展覽專門在解釋。。。

  • I went to, like, Washington, D.C.

    - 在史密斯森博物館? - 是的, 就在史密斯森博物館.

  • I saw they had a whole exhibit just on the--

    (Ray Comfort) 我有去過。 只不過是一些人像模型

  • - In the Smithsonian? - Yeah, in the Smithsonian.

    圍著火站著。

  • (Ray Comfort) I went to that. It's just like some stuffed dummies,

    我知道人人都會討論人類

  • like standing around a fire.

    缺失的環節

  • I know that everyone talks about the missing link

    我認為外面有 133 01:05:22,400 --> 01:05:23,867 尚未被發現的環節。

  • for humans and whatnot.

    我會信那些專家們所做的研究

  • I believe that there are connections that are out there

    ,他們所歸納出的結論。

  • that we haven't found yet.

    基於所提供的證據

  • I'm going to trust what those experts did,

    我對於演化論有絕對的信心。

  • those experts came up with.

    (Ray Comfort) 你能想到任何支持達爾文進化論

  • I have a strong trust in evolutionary ideas

    所提及的任何理論的可觀察證據嗎?

  • based on the evidence presented.

    我自己尚未見過,

  • (Ray Comfort) Can you think of any observable evidence

    但我相信教科書上所說,所以。。。

  • for Darwinian evolution, a change of kinds?

    (Ray Comfort) 你對於專家有信念?

  • I haven't seen it myself,

    嗯,我對於專家有信念。

  • but I believe what the textbooks tell me about it, so.

    我猜想這種信念像有信仰的人

  • (Ray Comfort) You've got faith in the experts?

    對於上帝存在的信念。

  • I have faith in the experts, yeah.

    我對於專家所說的言論有信念。

  • I guess similar to how religious people have faith

    (Ray Comfort) 科學方法既可觀察,又可重複,

  • that God actually exists, I have faith in the experts

    你能想到任何支持達爾文進化論所提及的理論

  • knowing what they're talking about.

    的任何可觀察證據嗎?

  • (Ray Comfort) The scientific method is it must be observable and repeatable,

    好的,我給你舉一個很棒的例子,

  • so could you give me one piece of observable evidence

    就是刺魚的基因.

  • for Darwinian evolution?

    (Ray Comfort) 那是什麽?

  • Okay, I would point to-- there's one great example

    刺魚是近期在

  • is look at the genetics of the stickleback.

    冰河時期過後被隔離的

  • (Ray Comfort) What's that?

    一個很特別的物種

  • So stickleback fish are a very interesting collection

    (Ray Comfort) 牠們變成了什麽?

  • of species that were recently isolated

    是幾種刺魚的種類。

  • after the end of the Ice Age.

    (Ray Comfort) 那牠們還是魚類嗎?

  • (Ray Comfort) What have they become?

    當然.

  • They're various species of sticklebacks.

    (Ray Comfort) 你能想到任何變種

  • (Ray Comfort) They stayed as fish?

    的可觀察到證據嗎?

  • Well, of course.

    魚.

  • (Ray Comfort) Can you think of any observable evidence

    人類還是魚。

  • where there was a change of kinds?

    (Ray Comfort) 人類還是魚嗎?

  • Fish.

    是的, 牠們當然是魚。

  • Human beings are still fish.

    (Ray Comfort) 耗了多長時間?

  • (Ray Comfort) Human beings are fish?

    幾十億年,百萬年。。

  • Why, yes, of course they are.

    - 幾百萬年? - 嗯.

  • (Ray Comfort) How long did that take?

    - 這樣怎麼能觀察到呢? - 不能

  • Couple billions of years, millions.

    我們以哺乳類動物從地里出來

  • - Couple millions? - Yep.

    然後一個哺乳動物變為。。--

  • - How is that observable? - It's not.

    (Ray Comfort) 從地里出來的嗎?

  • We came out of the ground as a mammal,

    我們不是從海洋出來的嗎?

  • and one mammal created--

    哦? 嗯, 最初的開始

  • (Ray Comfort) Come out of the ground?

    我們是從地里及海洋出來的。

  • Didn't we come out of the sea?

    在地球大爆炸之後--

  • Huh? Well, initially in the beginning,

    (Ray Comfort) 所以我們從海裡出來時是帶有肺還是腮?

  • we came out of the ground and the sea.

    你想知道嗎?

  • After the great destruction of the--

    在海裡的那些,我猜想帶有腮。

  • (Ray Comfort) So did we have lungs or gills when we came out of the sea?

    然後地上的那些,我猜想帶有肺。

  • You want to know something?

    (Ray Comfort) 但如果我是從海裡出來的,我在海裡時帶有腮嗎?

  • Those that were in the sea I guess had gills,

    你想知道嗎?

  • and those that were on land had lungs.

    誰知道我來自海洋還是--

  • (Ray Comfort) But if we came out of the sea, we had gills in the sea?

    從哺乳動物演化出來的?

  • You want to know something?

    - 所以你不知道? - 哦? 我當然不知道。

  • Who knows that we came out of the sea or we came out of--

    我相信他們做了正確的研究。

  • we evolved from mammals?

    (Ray Comfort) 你能否提供一個達爾文進化論的例子,

  • - So you don't know? - Huh? Of course I don't know.

    不是適應,也不是物種形成,而是變種?

  • I'm accepting that they did their science correctly.

    [laughing]

  • (Ray Comfort) Could you give me an example of Darwinian evolution,

    這就是變種。

  • not adaptation or speciation, but a change of kinds?

    (Ray Comfort) 牠們還是魚。

  • [laughing]

    牠們明顯的是不同的魚。

  • These are changes of kinds.

    我們有幾千個例子。

  • (Ray Comfort) They're still fish.

    (Ray Comfort) 你能給我一個嗎?

  • They're distinctly different fish.

    - 我能給你幾千個。 - 只要一個就好

  • We have thousands of examples.

    譬如說,

  • (Ray Comfort) Can you give me one?

    那我建議你看看倫斯基的細菌試驗。

  • - I can give you thousands. - Just one.

    (Ray Comfort) 那麼細菌變成了什麽呢?

  • For instance,

    細菌當然還是細菌。

  • I would say look at Lenski's experiments in bacteria, then.

    (Ray Comfort) 那這不是達爾文進化論啊。

  • (Ray Comfort) So what have the bacteria become?

    那不是變種,不是嗎?

  • The bacteria are still bacteria, of course.

    是細菌基因構成的變化。

  • (Ray Comfort) So that's not Darwinian evolution.

    (Ray Comfort) 但它們還是細菌。

  • That's not a change of kinds, is it?

    那細菌變成了什麽?

  • It is a change in the genetic makeup of the bacteria.

    一種新型的細菌。

  • (Ray Comfort) But they're still bacteria.

    (Ray Comfort) 它還是細菌,沒有發生變種。

  • So what have the bacteria become?

    總結得出,你所提供的達爾文進化論可觀察到

  • A new kind of bacteria.

    的證據是細菌變成細菌。

  • (Ray Comfort) It's still bacteria. There's no change of kinds.

    不是,是細菌獲得新的代謝能力。

  • To summarize, the observable evidence that you give me

    (Ray Comfort) 你曾說過有好多進化論的證據。

  • for Darwinian evolution is bacteria becoming bacteria.

    我只是想要一個達爾文進化論

  • No, it is bacteria acquiring new metabolic capabilities.

    可觀察到的證據,一個而已。

  • (Ray Comfort) You said before that there was lots of evidence for evolution.

    但我給你幾個了 你都不要--

  • I just want one observable evidence

    (Ray Comfort) 不是幾個. 我只要一個.

  • for Darwinian evolution. Just one.

    等一下,是你不要的。

  • But I gave you some. You don't want--

    (Ray Comfort) 我想要一個。 是的,我要。

  • (Ray Comfort) Not some. I want one.

    我向人們懇求。

  • Wait, you don't want that.

    是你要我告訴你的-- 是你要我告訴你的

  • (Ray Comfort) I want one. Yes, I do.

    在何時看過一個物種演變成另外一個。

  • I'm pleading with people.

    這不對嗎?

  • You asked me to tell you-- you asked me to tell you

    (Ray Comfort) 不是,一個種類變成另外一個種類。

  • when I've watched one species evolve into another.

    物種有14個不同的定義,

  • Isn't that right?

    所以我有種類的變化。

  • (Ray Comfort) No, one kind into another.

    那當你講到變種或動物科的變化,

  • There's 14 different definitions of species,

    你其實是在講宏觀進化。

  • so I want a change of kind.

    你講的是區分狗跟貓的

  • When you're talking about kinds or change in families,

    巨大變化.

  • you're actually talking about macroevolution.

    (Ray Comfort) 你可以給我一些達爾文進化論的例子?

  • You're talking about changes on the level that separates,

    當你講那種例子的話。

  • say, cats from dogs.

    必須有更長時間範圍。

  • (Ray Comfort) So could you give me any examples of Darwinian evolution?

    跟信念沒關係。

  • Well, when you say examples of that,

    信念是我見不到的。

  • then you have to sort of look at it over a longer time frame.

    但我必須相信。

  • It has nothing to do with faith.

    (Ray Comfort) 就是這意思,見不到的。

  • Faith is something that I have to--unseen,

    你看,你還信進化論嗎?

  • I have to believe it.

    我當然信。

  • (Ray Comfort) That's it, unseen.

    (Ray Comfort) 你是一個進化論的信徒嗎?

  • Look, do you believe evolution?

    是的,我是。

  • Of course I do.

    (Ray Comfort) 你從什麽時候開始信進化論?

  • (Ray Comfort) Are you a believer in evolution?

    當我開始為自己設想時

  • Yes, I am.

    我就開始信進化論了。

  • (Ray Comfort) When did you start to believe evolution?

    (Ray Comfort) 進化論是一種信仰嗎?

  • I started to believe evolution

    進化-- 你知道嗎?

  • when I started to think for myself.

    進化是一種思想的過程。

  • (Ray Comfort) Is evolution a belief?

    是一種接受

  • Evolu-- well, you know something?

    也是對於所有的其他選擇進行研究。

  • Evolution is a thought process.

    像是看宗教,”人“所造的宗教。

  • It's this coming-to-terms

    (Ray Comfort) 再問一次,進化論是不是種信仰? 249 01:09:31,333 --> 01:09:33,000 不是,進化論是--

  • and checking out all the alternatives.

    簡而言之,可以算是一種信仰。

  • Like, taking a looking at the religion, man-made religions.

    當你說變種

  • (Ray Comfort) Let me ask you again. Is evolution a belief?

    你是指一個種類演化成 253 01:09:39,000 --> 01:09:40,367 另外一種類嗎?

  • No, evolution is-- well, yeah.

    是的,且在加拉帕哥斯群島有物種正在演化中。 255 01:09:43,000 --> 01:09:44,333 (Ray Comfort) 你可以舉一個例子嗎?

  • In a word, yeah, I could say it