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- On this episode
we're gonna rescue you.

(hip hop music)
- [Gary] You ask questions,
and I answer them
This is
The #AskGaryVee Show.

- Hey everybody,
this is Gary Vay-ner-chuk

and this is episode 257
of The #AskGaryVee Show

and I've gotta say
this that a lot of you

who watch or
listen to the show know

I just don't really
consume a lot of content.

I produce a shit load of content
and then I watch how
people engage with it.

But I'm very fired up
to have our guest today

because I'm really, besides
watching the New York Jets,

I think his television
show is one of the few things

I've consumed in
the last three years

and I go on binges right,
'cause they play it back
to back to back to back.

I remember I was in Canada
once, yeah it was Canada once

and I stayed up
from like midnight

to like four in the
morning back to back to back

on who knows what channel there.
Jon I'm really
excited you're here.

- [Jon] Great to be
here yeah, big time.

- [Gary] Why don't
you tell the Vayner Nation

who you are and a
little bit about your career

and then we'll
answer some questions

and I'm just really
excited you're here.

- Good to be here, you know
looking at your background,
you and I have a
similar background.

So you know I didn't
start in the wine business

I started in the
restaurant business

and I started as a bartender,
became a general manager,

hotel manager, resort
food and beverage director,

resort general manager.
Did pretty much everything
in the industry that I could

and I've been giving
speeches to night club

and bar conventions
all over the world--

- [Gary] 'Cause you have
that kind of personality.

- I do and I give
very good speeches

and they pay well for it.
- Yep.

- So I was giving a
speech at a convention,

somebody comes up
to me one day and says,

"Jon you should be on TV."
So I wrote up a little

piece called 'On the Rocks',
went to a friend of mine

who ran Paramount Television,
sat down in the office

and he looks at me and he goes,
"Jon, you will never be on
television. You're too old,

"you're not
good looking enough,"

He goes, "Forget it."
So I walked out of
that office with a vendetta.

- [Gary] Yeah.
- So I went--

- A chip on your shoulder.
- I shot my own sizzle reel--
- No you did not?

- I did. Produced my own write
up of the show on my own,

brought the sizzle reel
to four different

production companies.
Within five days,
Gary, I had four offers.

The network picked up the show
four days after I signed
with the production company

and in less than a year
from that guy saying to me,

"You will never
be on television,"

the series premiered.
- [Gary] What's that guys name?
- David Goldsmith.

- Hey David Goldsmith,
you fuckin' lost this one.

- [Jon] Completely.
- Good guy?

- [Jon] I must tell you--
- Is he a good guy? A good guy?
- A good guy but I did
send him a dozen black roses.

- [Gary] I love it.
- Just to button up
the whole issue properly.

- Jon, you know we have a
lot of who might not have,

you know, what's the
show like you know...

How many seasons, what network?
- Sure, it's on Spike.
We just finished our--
- Which is gonna
be rebranded, right?

- January 8th
Spike gets rebranded

as the Paramount Network.
- [Gary] That's right.

- Which we're
really excited about

because you're in the know Gary
and I started the
show six years ago.

We've done 147 episodes,
I just signed for 20 more

and we're getting
into the record category

in business
transformation shows,

almost nobody's crossed 150
but Kitchen Nightmares
never crossed 100.

So you know,
none of these shows really
make it past 100 episodes,

so now last season about 90
million Americans watched it.

It's now on 5,000
channels on five continents

in six languages.
And if you think it's
intense to watch me in English

you should see me in Peruvian.
(group laughter)
It's something to see.
- How many of you
have seen the show?

Dunk, they don't
play this in Sweden?

- [Dunk] Not in Sweden,
I haven't seen it--

- In Norway.
- [Dunk] In Norway?
- We are in Norway.

- You need to move to Norway--
- [Dunk] Do you speak Norwegian?
- I do not speak Norwegian

but I believe it's
in English in Norway.

- But he translates--
- [Dunk] I don't
think you can be

aggressive in
Norwegian so like--

- I'll figure it out.
(Dunk laughs)
- Jon, before we
get into some Q&A

you know, the thing
that stood out for me

and probably why
I associated with it

besides the fact that you know
we got Type A personalities

and forget about
the personalities,

shtick, style, vibe, DNA.
Take that completely over here.
You're practical.
- Yeah.
- You're an operator.
- And it's real.

- I'm aware, because I am only,
I think a lot of the times
people can get
caught up in my sizzle

but it's the steak
that I'm most proud of.

I'm an operater.
Like I think of it as a
business like I can't...

Not that I can't lose,
you can always lose

but I stay in my little
narrow lane, I know what I know

and when I watched it even
with editing for television

I'm like, "Fuck it
that's right, yeah he's right."

And you do a lot of EQ stuff.
- [Jon] I do.
- Like, you know I have
800 people that work for me

what probably also
attracted me, and I'm like,

"I like this guy."
And whenever we first connected
on Twitter and I'm like,

"Yeah, I wanna get
to know this dude."

is you operate
and it's about margins

and it's about shelf play.
All this stuff
that I grew up with

in the liquor business right?
It was all that stuff

but it was also like,
"Oh that manager's insecure."
So you're finished, so--

It's, to me the
thing I'm most proud of is

the content that
I produce at scale.

The reason I'm
excited that people,

when they watch it is if they
can get over certain things

with themselves, with me
even, my style they'll win.

If they listen they'll win
- [Jon] Yes.

- And I believe that your show
and you are powerful for that

because I do believe
when I watch it as a person

I will always win in business.
If they listen they will win.
- Well you know what
I've learned is every

failing business has
a failing owner, Gary.

- [Gary] It's
always the owner's fault.

- That's a given. So if
they have a failing owner,

after 147 Bar Rescues
you know guys like you and I
learn everything about success.

- [Gary] Yeah.
- What do you do to

be successful, the blocks of
success, the planks of success.

After 147 Bar Rescues, Gary
I've seen a depth of failure

nobody's seen.
- Yeah.

How many, Jon real quick,
I apologize to interrupt you.

So I just did this show also
for Apple, Planet of the Apps

where I'm helping these
app developers right?

I was blown away by
how much I gave a shit.

Like, I didn't like it.
I didn't like when I
was mentoring them like,

"This sucks, like
I really want them to win

"and they're not li--"
Not that they weren't listening,
actually that's not true.

It was more just
like I wanted them to win.

When you shoot an episode, like
how long are you even there?

- [Jon] Four days.
- [Gary] Like when you're hear,
you've done six seasons right?
- Yeah.

- [Gary] When you
hear though the grapevine

or random email, just when
you hear, when your team hears

when you hear like,
"Oh Taco Johnies
became Hotrod Johnies

"and now it failed."
Hurts?
Or are you like a
merticracy system, you're okay.

Like you're okay you
understand that's the game?

- Not really, and I care.
- [Gary] I get it. I know
you do, I get it.

- I care that
houses are on the line,

I'm their last chance,
they're weeks--

they have
enough money for weeks.

- Go ahead.
- There's an independent
website that tracks my success.

- [Gary] Is that right?
- It's called Bar Rescue Updates
and it was
started to assassinate me.

But now they're pretty honest
and they're
pretty straight about it.

They have a tracking--
- [Gary] Do you
genuinely believe

it was started to like razz you?
- It was 'cause I watched
it when it first started.

- Got it.
- Now they're very fair,
they have an advertiser base

they give before and
after Yelp reviews and stuff.

- [Gary] Right,
right, right, that's cool.

- So they have been tracking
at a 75 to 80% success factor.

- That's amazing. Considering,
look, you're at 100% success
factor for a guy like me.

Just so you know. You're at 100%
It's just basic.
It's basic to us cause we've
known it our whole lives.

You're at 100%
success rate to me.

Your advice is always right.
You're just at
the mercy of Rick.

- Yes.
And what happens
with these people is

they've made decisions
that way for a long, long time

and they get stuck
in this, you know that.

- The fact that
three out of four of them

tasted what it should look like
and had the ability to
stay the course is phenomenal.

- But why is that?
And that's worth
picking upon for a second.

- [Gary] Let's go ahead.
- The two most powerful
motivators we have is fear.

- [Gary] Yes.
- And pride.
- [Gary] Yes.

- So let's say
you have a family bar.

I'll start to play with pride
'cause I gotta change
you to change this business.

- [Gary] 100%.
- So I'm gonna work pride.

How would you feel
if you were successful?

How do you imagine...
Okay, that doesn't work.
Now fear.
What happens when you
lose your fuckin' house?

- [Gary] Yeah, you're a loser.
- Look at this
picture of your kid,

what happens when you can't--
- 100%.

- So I gotta make
them terrified to change.

- Do you guys,
in real life versus TV life
which I think
you've got a real show but

I assume, tell me if I'm wrong,
a lot of bars fail
because a lot of times

the owner likes to
drink, cliche right?

- Yes.
It's almost like if you're into
drugs becoming a pharmacist.

I think it makes
no sense whatsoever.

- It's real right?
- Yes.

- Now you guys try hard--
- [Jon] Or too social.
Right.
You guys try to filter
out that one variable right?

- [Jon] We do, you know--
- Yeah, that would make sense.

That's just smart. Makes sense.
- [Jon] What I wanna
do is I wanna tell stories

that people wanna hear.
So family dramas,

partnership dramas,
you know it's intense.

- Those are real.
Those are real.

- Yeah and it's
very Shakespearean,

guy in trouble, resists
change, transforms himself,

redeems himself in the end.
It's really very Shakespearean
if you think about it.

- Oh are you kidding and it's
fuckin', it's great TV right?

Like you pick up the tile
and there's
fucken worms everywhere

and pa-dow it's like,
"Oh shit, there's slugs
everywhere. What the fuck?"

- I wanna tell you a
story I never told before.

So in the four--
- [Gary] Yes. Guys
we have exclusives here

on episode 257 of
The #AskGaryVee Show. go ahead.

- [Jon] The fourth
episode of Bar Rescue

was shut down by the network.
- Really?
- And it was shut
down by the network because

I was doing my thing and the
network executive came on set

and tried to fake something.
- [Gary] And you
lost your shit--

- And I told him
to go fuck himself.

- [Gary] 100%.
- Made him sit in a
McDonald's for three hours--

- You know who I do that
to all the time? DRock.

- [Jon] Well I can see
just taking one look at him

I can see why you do that.
- He's a real piece of shit.
He tries to tell me what to do.

Go ahead.
- Finishing the story, so
they shut down the production.

Now the senior VP
of the network flies

into Chicago to talk to me
and he's walking
me around the block...

- Yeah, and he's like,
Jon you gotta understand.

- And he says "Listen Jon,
"you can't tell the vice
president of the network

"to go fuck himself,
you just can't do that."

- [Gary] Right.
- So I took control of the
show, they never did it again,

and I've told 'em to
go fuck themselves now

about four or five
other times, right.

- [Gary] Makes sense.
Now they're wonderful,
but what happens is,

and I'm not putting them down
at all they're great people.

- [Gary] I know, they have
their job and you have yours.

- Production wants to know
what's gonna
happen before it happens.

- [Gary] You can't.
- And I won't do that.
- I can tell.

- So there's a push
and pull that's constantly

going on between us
to protect that reality,

and I'm guessing
you can relate to it.

- Well, I'd say--
- Well, if it wasn't for the

reality we wouldn't
have lasted this long.

- 100%, and
I do think, you know,

I wouldn't have
you sitting here.

I'm stunned that you guys,
that story makes
a ton of sense to me

because being
empathetic to that universe,

you guys have been
able to pull it off.

It's really cool.
I'm glad you're here.

- [Jon] Thank you, thank you.
- Let's get
some questions going.

- Great.
- So Andy's gonna
get some questions.

We're gonna answer some of them,
but before we do that,
where'd you grow up?

- Great Neck, Long Island,
not far from here.

- Please Jon, please
tell me you're a Jets fan.

- I am a Jets fan.
- Tell the truth, don't bull...

I will get crazy
on you right now.

- I'm gonna show my age.
Back to the Joe Namath days,
I'm a Jets fan.

- So how old were
you in January 12, 1969.

- In 1969, I would have been--
- [Gary] January 12th.

- 17,
- So you really were in a
prime year when they won it.

- [Jon] That's what I'm saying.
- Were you
walking around like, yeah.

- [Jon] I remember it big time.
I remember management,
I remember it big time.

- Were you a Knicks fan?
- [Jon] So I was a
Knicks fan as well,

but those were the days
of DeBusschere and Clyde.

- And were you a
Mets fan too? Or a Yankee?

- I was a big Mets fan because
I lived on Long Island,

we would take the Long Island
Rail Road to Shea Stadium

we used to watch Kingman Blasts
that would stay in
the air like four minutes.

- '69, '70 you
literally won an NBA, NFL

and World Series Championship.
- That's correct.
- You were the
king of the world.

- I thought so.
- Yeah I get it.

- But how do you
not be a Jets fan after

going through
that at 17 years old?

You're a Jets fan
for life after that.

- Namath was like the,
he was like
McGregor times a thousand.

- And cool as hell.
- Well that's the point.
Mcgregor's pretty cool.

Who's this?
- [Andy] Nick. From New Jersey.

- You sure
'cause it doesn't sound

like it's dialing anymore, Nick?
- [Nick] Yes.
- Bro, what's up man? What
part of Jersey are you from?

- [Nick] Wildwood.
- Wildwood, man I spent a summer
there once for five minutes.
- [John] A lot of
people did, right?

- [Nick] There you go.
I figured you'd know
it from where you're from.

- Say hello to Jon.
- Hey man.
- [Nick] How you doing Jon?
I saw you on there, yep.

- [Gary] What's
your question, my friend?

- [Nick] Just started
a new restaurant

and it's funny
you have him on there,

'cause obviously
I didn't know that.

- Yes.
- [Nick] But, the best
way to get it out there

without spending a fortune?
- Where is it before
Jon asks his questions?

- [Nick] It's in Wildwood,
which is a resort town,

we only got a few
months to do what we do.

- Are you open already?
- [Nick] Yeah, yeah
and I had restaurant before

with a partner.
I walked away
from that with nothing.

Threw everything
against the wall.

I know it will stick,
I got faith in the risk.

But, I need to get it out there.
- Okay, so in your business,
let me get to the point for,

in your business
you gotta pull the eye,

then pull the body,
then pull their wallet.

You don't get the
wallet until you have

the eye and the body first.
So, you gotta
look at the exterior,

the front of your business
and make sure
you're drawing attention.

'Cause off the top of my head,
what is the food
item you're known for?

- [Nick] Actually,
burgers, gourmet burgers.

- So, you put
greatest burgers in the world,

I would create
eight or ten picket signs,

wooden poles
with cardboard signs.

Say world's best hamburgers,
prices unfair to competition,

buns softest in town,
best burger or it's free.

I would positive picket
in front of your restaurant

for five consecutive
days, make sure people see

you understand your
commitment to quality.

It'll make a difference.
Hopefully the newspaper
will pick it up with a photo.

- [Nick] They will.
They already did last year
when I was with the partner

and I was the operational one,
so they'll be back.

- [Gary] So look, I think
my version of that,

which is all right and
definitely the way I grew up

is I want you to go
to Instagram and type in

Wildwood, New Jersey
and search it

and see the nine
trending pictures on Instagram

right now and I want
you to either DM or comment

the individuals that
are there because usually

if they're one of
the nine most popular,

they're the people
that are over-indexing,

have the biggest
audience and I want you

to one-on-one engage
with them at scale

and then really win,
a lot of times we talk

about hashtags on Instagram,
but I think that there's

a big white space
to search by location

and engage with the
people in that location.

I think you could
basically pull eyes and bodies

into your restaurant
by engaging virtually,

through people that are
putting up content virtually,

especially these three
months and you could do

it hand to hand
combat digitally.

- [Nick] Wow. Okay. I'm
new to the internet game too.

I kind of do stuff old school.
- Well, I got good news,
it's not a fad.

This shit's real.
(group laughter)
- [Nick] Well, thank you
Gary and Jon I appreciate it.

- Take care, talk
to you soon. Good guy.

- Look at the Jersey,
that was some East Coast shit

right there for
everybody who's watching.

Let's get another call.
Talk to me about
your journey on social.

Are you doing your
Twitter? Is your team?

It's okay, I just want to know.
- We started doing it,
and honestly, you know,

in our profession,
we're in the the bar business.

We're in the
hospitality business.

We're not in the
social media business.

- I get it, I get it.
- So, we've gone through
four, five different agencies

and found the process
extremely frustrating.

- [Gary] Understood.
- So we brought it in house,
we've taken it out house.

We've put it in house,
we've taken it out house.

We've never parked it in
a place where I can actually

feel good about it
to be honest with you.

And it's tough to keep
it in my voice as well.

- [Gary] Are you just adamantly
against doing it yourself?

Is it hard?
It doesn't come natural?

- [Jon] No, it's that I travel
40 weeks a year,

I shoot 12 hours a day
and it's hard to allocate

the time to do it.
On the other hand,
you'll tell me Jon,

you're crazy no to
allocate the time to do it.

- [Gary] I'm also gonna
tell what you tell

the other
business owners, right?

In a 2017 environment,
with, you know,

what's ironic is you are
so built for it, it's scary.

- [Jon] But, I'm in a bar guy,
you're in a social media space.

So, I've never
perfected it and honestly,--

- [Gary] Yeah but, you
know what you are?

You're a communicator.
You're a bar guy who happens
to be a phenomenal communicator.
That's why you
spoke in the first place,

which led to the TV
show in the first place.

I genuinely
believe in the same way

that you've taught operators,
the cadence of
doing the right thing,

that if you actually bit,
you know, you bit the bullet

and you did it
for a week or two,

it would come so unbelievably
natural, based on your DNA.

- Hmmm.
- [Gary] I really mean it.

- I just do it in a
casual, intimate sense.

- [Gary] Be you.
- In the moment.

- I don't know tell the
people to go fuck themselves.

Look, you can't lose and I think
once you actually taste it,

for real, it will come as
natural to you as it came to me.

Because guess what?
I was 32 years old.

It wasn't like
I grew up with this shit.

I was on a computer five
minutes in my entire life

until I was 20.
It's about
communication and you've got

that pouring out
of your fuckin' eyes.

- Well, I'm gonna tell you
something, you've inspired me.

- [Gary] Well, thank you.
- I'm gonna pick
this up tomorrow.

I'm gonna start doing this.
- [Gary] I'm fired up.
You're pumped. You are pumped.

You are so happy
with me right now.

- He is. He's been pushing me
to do this for a long time.

- You're gonna kill it. On
Twitter, you're gonna kill it.

- [Jon] It's interesting
how I can be comfortable

in front of 90 million
Americans on TV,

but that phone and social
media environment I'm not.

- It makes sense.
And you know this, right?

We're great at
our lanes, but we know

that we're not as
comfortable in other lanes.

I just know that
it's the context of it

because your ability
in it is gonna dominate.

Your gonna find
yourself on wifi in the plane,

engaging on
Twitter left and right.

I mean, asking you questions,
you should have every...

- [Jon] I engage in Twitter,
I engage in Facebook

and I type and
I answer as many as I can.

But, what I'm not doing
is I'm not using my camera

very often and I'm
not going live very often.

- Don't worry
about live for a minute.

You know where you can crush?
I would die and a
bunch of people watching

would die to follow this,
as your walking through

the airport, you see a
restaurant, front facing,

you take a picture and
you leave your two cents.

You know how many
people would love that?

- [Jon] Yeah,
that's a good idea.

- Great coloring on the letter,
shit signage, got it?

- [Jon] Yeah.
- You'll dominate that.

- That's a great idea.
Great idea!

- You got content everywhere.
- So I can be a dick all day
long and critique people?

- Can you imagine?
And on the flip side, you know
the way this show's edited?

I think you can
create a second path,

which is on social,
maybe you go the path

of showing things that
you think are done well.

'Cause first of all,
let's think about this,

you're walking
through New York City,

you see something
you think is well.

You take a picture, you go this
was extremely well executed.

When that bar sees
that, they share it.

This, that.
You see where I'm going.

- [Jon] I do.
Brilliant. It's brilliant.

- Who's comin' in now?
- [Andy] Kevin from Chicago.
- Kevin from Chicago.

(phone ringing)
Let's see what
Kevin from Chicago...

I'm fired up now, John.
I think you're gonna dominate.
- You got me fired up.

- I think you're gonna
hit me up in four months

and be like,
"Fuck, I shoulda done it."

Kevin?
- [Kevin] Hello?
- Kevin, this is GaryVee,

and you're on
The #AskGaryVee Show.

- [Kevin] Gary, my man.
- How are you?
- [Kevin] Amazing, how are you?
- Good, bro, you're on
with Jon, can you say hello?

- [Kevin] Hey Jon, hello.
- Hey, buddy, how are you?
- Kevin, you're
as chill as fuck!

- [Jon] Yeah, man,
did we wake you up?

- Did you smoke
like a fuckin' fat blunt?

Like, what's going on
here, Kevin, you're chill, bro!

- [Kevin] I'm trying my best
not to freak out right now.

- Okay, got it, got it, got it.
What's your question?
- [Kevin] Alright,
so my brother's

13th birthday's
coming up in July.

- Okay?
- [Kevin] And I was
wondering if you had any ideas

what kind of gift to
give him that would be like

very good for his
life and life-changing.

- Okay, so what's his
story at 13 right now?

- [Kevin] Uh, loves basketball.
Starting to go through
puberty, voice changing.

- Is he on Instagram?
- [Kevin] No, he's not.
He's on Snapchat,
though, loves Snapchat.

- So, I have an idea.
For this 13th birthday,
I think you should have him
create his Instagram account

and my friend here, Dunk,
who has two million followers

in the basketball space--
- [Dunk] 2.2.
- 2.2 million,

is gonna give him a shout-out
and send people his way.

- [Jon] That's great.
- He'll shit his pants.

- [Jon] And link to
his favorite players

and create a whole
community around it.

- Jon, it's better
than that, he'll get like...

He'll get like 4,000
followers on Instagram

and not know what
to do with himself.

- [Kevin] Yeah, he'd freak out.
- It's a done deal.
Email me at Gary@VaynerMedia.

Dunk sells these
things for like $50,000.

I just gave you $50,000, Kevin.
Appreciate it, thank you, Dunk.
- You're welcome.

Dunk! (group laughter)
- Very excited.

He was very excited about it.
Kevin, that's for calling.
We just made
a 13-year-old's life.

Kevin, if you're...
Gary@VaynerMedia.com.
Dunk, you're the best.
- [Dunk] Yes, I'm gonna do it.
- I know you are,
'cause you're the best.

You're a good dude.
While Andy's
getting another call,

what...
What, in your career growing up,
what was the best-run
organization that you worked in

before you went onto
the next part of show...

What was the place where
you really learned how to...

A lot of places I'm sure
you learned not to do it.

But where was the
place that really...

Who was a great operator?
What was a great
experience for you early on?

- It wasn't
somebody I worked for,

it was somebody I worked with.
- [Gary] Okay.

- And you'd be
surprised by the answer.

It's going back a
number of years, but Disney.

- [Gary] That's not surprising
to me at all, keep talking.

- I mean, Disney's commitment
to employee orientation.

I mean, Disney, you don't wear
uniforms, you wear costumes.

You don't work at a station,
you work on a stage.

Every door is a stage door,
to the front of the
house to the back of the house.

You never break character.
Their depth of
training was incredible.

Even a janitor,
the guy who sweeps up,

they knew that he would get
more questions than anyone.

So he knew everything.
- [Gary] Interesting.

- Their depth of training and
commitment--

- You said "worked with,"
under what context?

What was the story back then?
- I'm not permitted
to publicly say

because we're on
non-disclosure--

- No worries.
- But we worked with them--
- That sounds awesome.

Sounds really cool.
And what about early on?
What brought you
into the industry,

just literally just
making two bucks and hour?

- [Jon] No, I was going into
politics, believe it or not.

I went to University of
Denver, started tending bar.

But I had two loves:
politics and
cultural anthropology,

which you'll find interesting.
So I loved the study of
primates and animal societies,

which are just like us.
So I've learned
to analyze people

and my crew calls it "Dr. John."
I can analyze
somebody in seconds.

Just their landing
point defines everything.

- [Gary] 100%.
- Do you land in
selfish interests?

Do you land in
gracious interests?

Where do you land, 'cause
where you land is truly you.

Then you try to
fix it after that.

- [Gary] That's right.
- So, it's all very primal,
and it's helped me a
lot in my other careers.

- [Gary] Clearly, I mean,
I brought up earlier,

even through the editing
process of a television show,

it was interesting
and obvious to me

that you traded on EQ,
what I would call EQ,

emotional intelligence.
It's all people behavior.

Like, I've got a very good read
on everybody who I interact with
very quickly as well,
predicated on...

It's pretty basic.
If it comes natural to you,
if you've learned it,

things of that nature.
You got something?
- [Andy] Yep.

- What's your problem over here?
Going a little slow.

- [Andy] I'm just
waiting for you guys.

(phone ringing)
- Respect. Who's this?

- [Andy] Glen from California.
- Glen from California?
Okay, let's see what
Glen's got for us, Jon.

- [Glen] Hello?
- Glen, you're on
The #AskGaryVee Show.

- [Glen] Oh, shoot,
this is crazy!

- It sure is, how's California?
- [Glen] It's freaking amazing.
You see the weather
out here, it's crazy.

- (laughs) What's your question?
- [Glen] So, um... alright--
- Well, first,
please say hello to Jon T.

- [Glen] Hey, how you doing--
- Hey, Gary.

How you doing, man?
- [Glen] Doin' great, so...
I do a YouTube channel.
I have about 24K subscribers.
I have about 50K on my
Facebook, doing pretty well.

- Yep.
- [Glen] Only been doing
it for a year and a half.

It's called Beleaf In
Fatherhood, shout it out.

But anyway...
I just did a deal with Apple.
Apple was like,
"Hey, I love your picture.

"I love this picture
that you use on Instagram.

"It'd be dope if we could use
it for our campaign worldwide."

So literally, there
are 90 billboard-size

pictures of my
son around the world.

- That's amazing!
- [Glen] Yeah, it's great.
So I know that
this is just like a,

it's a cool thing, you know
what I'm saying, that happened,

and I know it doesn't
really get me anything

besides the money that we
got off top, which is cool,

but I'm trying to figure out
how to leverage this opportunity
into something bigger
and to put some more brands,

you know what I'm saying?
- I do know what you're saying.
- Guess where he is?
- Where?

- No, in other words,
you can have some type

of an online
activity that's interactive

where you can guess where he is.
Locate him, something
along those kind of lines

to create engagement.
Not bad?
- [Gary] Yeah, so real quick,
how old's the child?
- [Glen] He's four.
He's adorable.
- I'm sure he's adorable.
I mean, um...
So, it's interesting.
So one more time
because I wanna make
sure I heard this right.

Apple obviously
licensed the image from you

that they saw online.
Through what, through
Facebook or Instagram?

Just I wanna
get all the details.

- [Glen] Instagram.
- Okay.

- [Glen] Through
a freakin' hashtag.

Only think I every hashtagged.
- Wild.
And they bought the
rights to the photo, obviously.

And they're using it
in how many billboards

in how many markets,
I wanna hear it one more time.

- [Glen] 90
different billboards.

Around the world.
- Around the world.

And so you're
saying to yourself,

"Okay, my four-year-old
son is on 90 billboards."

You took the photo?
- [Glen] I took the photo.
- And you're thinking
about how do I leverage

this opportunity, right?
- [Glen] Right,
and keep in mind,

though I had very low
numbers, like, 24K isn't a lot,

if I put up a video
for an ad on Facebook,

it gets two or
three million views,

you know what I'm saying?
So I can create very heartfelt
stuff for the black community,
for church folk,
and stuff like that.

But I'm trying to figure out how
to present this to brands better
because I have all
these working relationships,

but I can't get real money,
you know what I'm saying?

- Of course I do
because brands oftentimes

are paying for distribution
and are
commoditizing out creative,

and you're playing
in a creative world.

And obviously you've shown
some distribution capabilities.

Let's take it a step back.
What bucket do you
wanna put this talent into?

What do you wanna build?
Do you wanna build an agency?[
Do you wanna build a product?

I think one of the things that,
back to the reason
Jon's shaking his head now,

these are the
practical questions, I think.

The model of "I wanna
get brands to pay me more

"for branded posts on
social networks" is fine,

and I think is an
emergingly massive market.

But you're also at the
vulnerability of the platforms,

the terms of service
changing, the market behaviors.

I think the question becomes,
what do you want to do
with your creative talents?

Are you trying to
build a service business?

Are you trying to
build a product business?

Are you trying to build a
personal brand where you--

- A father-advocacy business.
It could be something
on those lines as well.

- Where do you wanna take it?
I think you have to make
those decisions on where you--

- [Glen] I already know.
- Go ahead.

- [Glen] Yeah, so
I wanna be, you know,

the thought leader on
parenting five years from now.

Everything I do with
these vlogs and these videos

only shows my validity in how
I can speak on these topics

as a father from the father
perspective and as a husband.

So six, seven years from now,
when CNN is having
some issue with parenting,

they can bring in
and talk to me about it.

- I understand.
- [Glen] But in the short-term,
I need to make financial...

I need to make some money,
you know what I'm saying?

- Of course I do.
- Well, advocacy and money
don't always travel
hand-in-hand together.

So I know from one,
and this is just my view,

if you wanna
monetize this, then, you know,

you need money for charity.
No money, no charity.
So you start
with the monetization

and then you
build to the advocacy.

I don't think it's
the other way around.

Would you agree, Gary?
- Yes, but I think what he's
asking is a little bit...

It's a little bit
interesting what he's up to.

So, real quick, you've
been able to make some money

from brands on creating content
on your personal profiles?

- [Glen] Yes sir.
- How much, like $500 a post?

Like that kind of numbers?
- [Glen] Nine, $900, yeah--
- So Jon do you
know this phenomenon?

There's like, we believe
that it's like a two to three

billion dollar market
of people with large social

network accounts, mainly
on Instagram and Facebook

where brands will pay them
for, in essence commercials.

Post, you know--
- [Jon] Uh-huh, yes.

- Advertorial, as
the way we grew up right?

- [Jon] Yes, I've had
those requests on my page.

- I'm sure, so I look,
I think there's a,

I think there's a
couple ways to do this.

I've got a very
rogue answer for you.

Are you self, are
you trying to make this

your full-time living?
Do you have a job
currently as well?

- [Glen] I came from hip hop,
I'm trying to
get out of hip hop.

I'm moving towards
fatherhood, cause it's--

- Understood, but when you
say you came from hip hop,

do you have a job right now
or are you trying
to live your life--

- [Glen] No.
- Okay, I'm gonna
throw you for a curve,

how old are you?
- [Glen] I'm 32.

- So, when you become
the person that the big media

companies in six or
seven years call for fatherhood

in your genre,
things of that nature,

is your plan to get, a
million dollar book advance,

to get paid
$40,000 to give speeches?

Are you looking to ultimately--
- [Glen] Exactly.

- Okay, I would tell you,
that I think you
should get a job.

And I think you should--
- [Glen] Alright.

- I think you should
get a job for somebody

who's a personal brand.
I think you should--
- [Glen] Yeah.

- Look under the hood.
The great advantage,

the thing that allowed
Jon and I to sit here today,

and have all these
people watching, and listening,

is we did the thing for decades
before we
talked about the thing.

I believe that if you got a
45,000, an 80,000, an 9,000,

I'm not gonna
speak to your finances.

But I believe if you worked
the nine to six, nine to seven,

to be the social media guy
for any personal brand,
whether it's in
your genre or not,

and it probably
won't be in your genre,

an athlete,
an actress, a politician,

if you could see somebody,
I'm a big fan of working for
somebody who's doing the thing

you want to do, you get to
see everything under the hood.

And I would love to
see you get, pay your bills

and learn the
do's and the don'ts,

and then use that
platform to build yourself up.

I'm a very big advocate of
the advice that I'm giving,

and let me be clear, I know
it's taking a step backwards,

to take two steps forward.
A lot more fun, to kinda
sell your $900 post here,