Name: 【TED】菲利普．金巴多﹕常人如何變成惡魔... 或英雄 (The psychology of evil | Philip Zimbardo)
Uploaded: 2013-07-18T04:06:01.000Z
Duration: 23 min 11 s

許多世紀以來，哲學家，劇作家，神學家

have grappled with this question for centuries:

Interestingly, I asked this question when I was a little kid.

有趣的是，當我還是小孩時，我問過同樣的問題。

When I was a kid growing up in the South Bronx, inner-city ghetto

我成長於紐約南布朗克斯市中的貧民窟，

as all kids are who grew up in an inner city.

如同所有在貧民窟長大的孩子一樣。

And I had friends who were really good kids,

我有一些朋友，他們曾是好孩子，

who lived out the Dr. Jekyll Mr. Hyde scenario -- Robert Louis Stevenson.

但他們的人生卻如同羅伯特·路易斯·斯蒂文森筆下的變身怪醫，由善轉惡。

That is, they took drugs, got in trouble, went to jail.

他們染毒，惹了麻煩，然後進了監獄。

Some got killed, and some did it without drug assistance.

有些喪了命，即使並沒有沾染毒品。

So when I read Robert Louis Stevenson, that wasn't fiction.

所以當我讀羅伯特·路易斯·斯蒂文森的作品時，我覺得那不是小說。

The only question is, what was in the juice?

唯一的問題是：釀成由善轉惡的毒藥是什麼？

And more importantly, that line between good and evil --

更重要的是，善惡之間的界限——

which privileged people like to think is fixed and impermeable,

特權階層喜歡認定這個界限是固定且不可逾越的，

with them on the good side, and the others on the bad side --

認為他們是在善的一邊，其他人在惡的一邊——

I knew that line was movable, and it was permeable.

而我以前就知道這個界限是可以移動的，而且是可逾越的。

Good people could be seduced across that line,

and under good and some rare circumstances, bad kids could recover

偶爾在某些比較好的情況下，壞孩子也可能

with help, with reform, with rehabilitation.

依靠外界的幫助、改造、治療，以重塑人生。

So I want to begin with this this wonderful illusion

所以，我想以荷蘭藝術家M. C. Escher

If you look at it and focus on the white,

如果你把視線集中在白色區域，

你會看到一個充滿了天使的世界。

But let's look more deeply, and as we do,

what appears is the demons, the devils in the world.

One, the world is, was, will always be filled with good and evil,

一：這個世界，無論過去，現在，還是將來，都總是由善和惡組成，

because good and evil is the yin and yang of the human condition.

It tells me something else. If you remember,

它也告訴我另外一件事。如果你還記得，

顯然，路西法的意思是“光明”。

It also means "the morning star," in some scripture.

在某些經文裡，它也有“黎明之星”的意思。

and that's the ultimate disobedience to authority.

And when he did, Michael, the archangel, was sent

當他率眾背叛後，上帝派邁克天使長

to kick him out of heaven along with the other fallen angels.

將他和其他墮落的天使一起趕出天堂。

And so Lucifer descends into hell, becomes Satan,

於是路西法降入地獄，成為撒旦，

becomes the devil, and the force of evil in the universe begins.

成為惡魔，宇宙中的惡之能量誕生了。

Paradoxically, it was God who created hell as a place to store evil.

矛盾的是，是上帝造出了惡的容身之處---地獄。

He didn't do a good job of keeping it there though.

So, this arc of the cosmic transformation

所以，從上帝最受寵的天使變為惡魔，

for me, sets the context for understanding human beings

who are transformed from good, ordinary people

So the Lucifer effect, although it focuses on the negatives --

所以，路西法效應，儘管它集中在陰暗的方面——

leads me to a psychological definition. Evil is the exercise of power.

引導我作出一個心理學定義：惡是行使權力

To intentionally harm people psychologically,

to hurt people physically, to destroy people mortally, or ideas,

對他人進行身體傷害，殘害他人生命或思想，

If you Google "evil," a word that should surely have withered by now,

如果你用谷歌搜索evil (惡) 這個詞——時至今日，這本是個早應消亡的詞，

you come up with 136 million hits in a third of a second.

你會在1/3秒內得到1.36億個搜索結果。

A few years ago -- I am sure all of you were shocked, as I was,

幾年前發生的一件事——我知道你們當時一定和我一樣震驚，

in a controversial war, Abu Ghraib in Iraq.

中的虐囚行為：阿布葛拉伊布虐囚事件。

who were putting prisoners through unbelievable humiliation.

對囚犯們實施了讓人難以置信的羞辱。

我很震驚，但是並不感到意外，

because I had seen those same visual parallels

when I was the prison superintendent of the Stanford Prison Study.

當時我是史丹佛監獄實驗的負責人。

Immediately the Bush administration military said ... what?

布希政府軍方對此事的第一反應是什麼？

What all administrations say when there's a scandal.

是醜聞發生後任何官方都會說的套詞，

"Don't blame us. It's not the system. It's the few bad apples,

"不要怪我們。這與整個系統無關。只是幾個壞蘋果而已，

只是一小撮惡劣的士兵而已。 "

My hypothesis is, American soldiers are good, usually.

而我的假設是，美國士兵通常情況下是好的。

But how am I going to -- how am I going to deal with that hypothesis?

for one of the guards, Sergeant Chip Frederick,

奇普·弗萊德里克中士的專家證人，

and in that position, I had access to the dozen investigative reports.

在這個位置上，我可以接觸到關於此事的十幾份調查報告。

have him come to my home, get to know him,

do psychological analysis to see, was he a good apple or bad apple.

作些心理上的分析來判斷他是個好蘋果還是壞蘋果。

And thirdly, I had access to all of the 1,000 pictures

These pictures are of a violent or sexual nature.

All of them come from the cameras of American soldiers.

所有這些都是美軍士兵用相機拍攝的。

Because everybody has a digital camera or cell phone camera,

因為每個人都有數位相機或手機相機，

they took pictures of everything. More than 1,000.

他們什麼都拍。拍了超過1000張照片。

And what I've done is I organized them into various categories.

But these are by United States military police, army reservists.

但這些由陸軍預備役的美軍憲兵所拍攝的。

They are not soldiers prepared for this mission at all.

他們完全不是為執行此項任務而設立的部隊。

And it all happened in a single place, Tier 1-A, on the night shift.

而此事僅發生在一個地點，1A層，在夜間值班時間。

Why? Tier 1-A was the center for military intelligence.

為什麼？ 1A層是軍方情報中心。

It was the interrogation hold. The CIA was there.

是審訊關押處。中央情報局在那裡。

Interrogators from Titan Corporation, all there,

巨人公司（美軍外包公司）的審訊人員，全部都在那裡，

and they're getting no information about the insurgency.

而他們得不到任何關於暴動的信息。

So they're going to put pressure on these soldiers,

於是他們向這些憲兵隊士兵施加壓力，

give them permission to break the will of the enemy,

允許他們採取措施來擊潰敵人的意志，

to prepare them for interrogation, to soften them up,

to take the gloves off. Those are the euphemisms,

（相機快門聲）（以下圖片含有裸露及暴力展示）

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【TED】菲利普．金巴多﹕常人如何變成惡魔... 或英雄 (The psychology of evil | Philip Zimbardo)

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