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  • The views expressed in these interviews are those of the participants alone

    在這些訪談中傳達的觀點 只是受訪者的觀點

  • and do not necessarily reflect the views of the producers or its sponsors.

    並不必然反映出製片者和其贊助商的觀點

  • Orion Network Films LLP

    獵戶座網路影片有限責任合夥

  • In Association with PositiveTV

    與"正面電視"聯合製作

  • Directed by Mark Waters

    導演:馬克·沃特斯

  • Presents

    呈獻

  • The Summary

    概要

  • The Zeitgeist Movement

    時代精神運動

  • My name is Peter Joseph.

    我叫彼德.約瑟夫

  • I am currently the de facto founder of an organization called The Zeitgeist Movement

    我目前是"時代精神運動"的組織創建人

  • which is seeking to alter the current cultural climate, if you will

    尋求改變目前的文化氛圍 如果你想這麼理解的話

  • into something that can be considered as actually sustainable

    使其成為可被真正認為是永續的氛圍

  • for not just one nation or class but all the world's people.

    不只是為了一個國家或階級 而是為了世界上所有人

  • The Zeitgeist Movement

    時代精神運動

  • We live in a paradigm, now, where we have society operating

    現在我們生活於其中的模式 其社會運作的想法是

  • on the idea that we can grow infinitely.

    我們可以無限制地增長

  • Therefore, we keep buying and consuming regardless of how many resources we have.

    因此 我們持續購買並消費 而不管我們有多少資源

  • This creates a collision course with nature, which the world is figuring out right about now

    這與自然的軌道產生了衝突 而世界正在瞭解到這一點

  • on many levels, that the Earth is essentialy a closed system.

    即許多層面上 地球實際上是一個封閉的系統

  • It took billions of years to create the minerals we have.

    我們擁用的礦物質要花上數百萬年才形成

  • It took many, many hundreds of millions of years

    也要花上好幾億年的時間

  • to create the fossil fuels which govern everything we have.

    才形成主導著我們所有事物的石化燃料

  • And, amazingly enough, we've created this system

    然而足以令人吃驚的是 我們創造了這個系統

  • where we're using all of our resources

    其中我們耗用了所有的資源

  • to create the economic growth required to sustain employment and everything else.

    以創造必要的經濟成長來維持就業和其它東西

  • And simultaneously, we're diminishing our resources at a near exponential rate

    而同時我們也正以指數級的速率 消耗著我們的資源

  • it seems, as population continues to grow

    看起來人口持續增加

  • and no one seems to understand that it's an absolute clash

    但似乎無人瞭解 這是一個根本的矛盾衝突

  • and that eventually we're going to run out of pivotal resources

    而最終我們將耗竭核心的資源

  • and eventually you're going to see things, I don't know,

    最後你將會看到 我不確定

  • like the human population start to dwindle down.

    像是人口開始銳減

  • -My name is Jacque Fresco

    我叫雅克.法斯科

  • and I'm going to present the concepts of The Venus Project.

    我將簡介金星計畫的概念

  • The Venus Project

    金星計畫

  • If you don't want war

    如果你不想要有戰爭

  • if you don't want poverty

    如果你不想要有貧困

  • hunger

    飢餓

  • unemployment

    失業

  • you have to declare all the Earth's resources

    那麼你就必須宣告世界上所有的資源

  • as the common heritage of all the world's people.

    是全世界人們的共同遺產傳承

  • All the artificial boundaries have to be removed

    所有的人為邊界必須要移除

  • so that people can travel anywhere.

    讓人們能到處旅遊移動

  • It has to be a global society.

    必須是一個全球性的社會

  • There are many people that feel "Well, let's develop each country."

    有許多人會覺得 "嗯 那讓我們發展每一個國家吧"

  • You can't do that because if the Russians do experiments with nuclear materials

    但你不能如此做 因為如果俄國人進行核子材料的實驗

  • and the Chinese, that air goes all over the world.

    接著中國也如此做 那這個氛圍會擴散到全世界

  • So it's very hard to work independently.

    所以獨立做事是非常困難的

  • So, I would say, if you want these things

    因此我會說 如果你想要達成上述目標

  • you have to change the way your society operates.

    你就必須改變社會運行的方式

  • We believe, here at The Venus Project, we are not civilized yet.

    在金星計畫這裡 我們認為我們尚未文明化

  • As long as you have armies, navies, prisions, police, we are not civilized.

    只要你有軍隊 海軍 監獄 警察 那我們就不文明

  • No nation is civilized.

    沒有一個國家是文明的

  • Being civilized is an ongoing process.

    成為文明是一個持續的過程

  • The more we learn, the more we know about the environment and human relations

    我們學到的越多 我們就越懂得環境和人類之間的關聯

  • the more we're able to deal with the problems.

    我們就越能處理問題

  • If we fail to do that, we won't be able to solve problems.

    如果我們做不到這一點 我們就不能解決問題

  • If we go with traditional values, we won't be able to solve problems.

    如果我們照著傳統價值觀走 我們將不能解決問題

  • All of these pump-primers do not work.

    這些所有負責刺激經濟的政府官員都沒用

  • There's always been wars. The wars have continued to get worse

    總是一直有戰爭 戰爭一直持續惡化

  • even though the universities today have the most sophisticated equipment

    即使今日的大學有最複雜精密的設備

  • in the science labs, the architectural labs, all the labs

    在實驗室裡 像是建築實驗室 所有的實驗室等

  • and the wars are getting worse. Explosions are getting worse.

    然而戰爭卻變得更糟 爆炸越來越嚴重

  • Since the atom bomb, the explosive power is much worse.

    自從原子彈問世以來 爆炸性的力量越來越強大

  • So, there's something definitely wrong with all cultures.

    因此所有的文明絕對都有問題

  • When I say wrong, I mean that the system doesn't work.

    我說有問題的意思是 這個系統是無效的

  • Now, to talk about a system that does work is a little foreign to our habits of thought.

    對我們目前的慣性思維來說 談論一個確實有效的系統是有點陌生

  • I'm going to try to explain how we make decisions.

    我會試著解釋我們如何作出決策

  • Actually, we don't make decisions.

    事實上 我們不是作決策

  • We arrive at them.

    我們是"達成"決策

  • -The only way a real society can operate, period, is in a steady-state economy

    社會唯一真正能運行的方式 是處在經濟穩定的狀態中

  • meaning you don't have the mechanism of constantly needing to do anything

    意味著你沒有一直需要去做事情的機制

  • other than being sustainable in your every day living

    除了使你每日的生活變得永續

  • and having society recognize the attributes of sustainability which are required.

    並讓社會認知到必要的永續屬性

  • That's the value-system orientation needed to create a stable society.

    這就是必要的價值導向系統 以創造一個穩定的社會

  • As a brief extension of this, we live in a materialistic culture.

    簡短延伸這個論點 我們生活在物質主義的文化中

  • We live in a culture that's predicated on inferiority

    我們生活的文化是奠基於低劣 次等 自卑

  • and people thinking that they need more and more and more because of many reasons

    而因為各種的理由 人們認為自己需要更多

  • because of someone else having more, status-oriented issues, so on and so forth.

    因為別人有更多東西 由地位所引發的問題等等

  • And that fuels into this mechanism of the growth economy

    這點為經濟成長的機制火上加油

  • of getting more and more. Holidays...

    即要得到更多東西 所以在假日時

  • People give each other gifts. These are inventions for economics.

    人們給彼此禮物 這些是為了經濟而發明的

  • -As long as we use money and the bottom line is profit

    只要我們使用金錢且底線是獲取利潤

  • then those who control the money are able to make the laws in their favor.

    那麼那些掌控著金錢的人 就可以訂定有利於他們的法律

  • And that means that they really don't care about people.

    而這意味著他們真的不管其它人

  • They care about wealth, property and power when that is the main incentive.

    他們關心財富 資產 和權力 當這些是東西主要動機時

  • So, when we use the monetary system, there is no justice within this system.

    也就是說 當我們使用金融貨幣體系 體系內就不會有公義

  • There's no making this system equitable.

    就不會使這個體系平等

  • What we need is an entirely new system that we call a Resource- Based Economy.

    我們需要的是一個全新的系統 我們稱之為資源導向型經濟

  • Resource-Based Economy

    資源導向型經濟

  • -In regard to social operation and how to create a new society

    關於社會的運作 與如何創造一個新社會

  • or better yet just to say to create any society that would be sustainable and efficient

    或是說 創造任何將會是永續和有效率的社會

  • there's really an empirical train of thought, if you will, on how to do that.

    如果你想要的話 真的會有一連串關於如何達成的實際想法

  • First of all, you have to think about what the human being actually needs.

    首先 你必須考慮人類真正需要什麼

  • We require resources at the bare minimum.

    我們最低限度需要的資源是

  • We require food, water, etc, as we all know.

    食物 水等等 眾所皆知

  • Therefore, resources become the most paramount subject.

    因此 資源變成最重要的主題

  • Resources in fact should be the foundation of any economic structure.

    資源事實上應該是任何經濟結構的基礎

  • So, what do you do? If you consider that the Earth is a closed finite system.

    所以你要做什麼呢? 如果你考慮到地球是一個封閉的有限系統

  • -First thing you have to do is a survey of the Earth's resources

    你必須做的第一件事是調查地球上的資源

  • and the carrying capacity of the environment.

    及環境的承載能力

  • If you produce a population far in excess of the carrying capacity of the environment

    如果你產生的人口 遠遠超過環境的承載能力

  • you're going to have trouble.

    你就會有麻煩

  • You're going to have malnutrition and all the problems that go with it.

    你就會有營養不良和所有隨之而來的問題

  • So, first we have to find out what can each successive environment carry

    因此我們必須找出 每一個相繼而來的環境能承載什麼

  • and maintain a population in accordance with the carrying capacity of the Earth.

    並維持人口 使其與地球的承載能力達成平衡

  • Not what I like or somebody else likes or some politician notions.

    而不是我喜歡什麼或其它人喜歡什麼 或一些政治家的意見

  • It has to be based upon the carrying capacity of the Earth.

    必須奠基於地球的承載能力之上

  • -To organize a structure based on the intelligent management of the Earth resources

    根據對地球資源的智慧管理 來組織一個結構

  • you start from, essentially, the base level of where is everything.

    實際上 你要從每件事物的根本開始做起

  • So, you look at the planet and you say

    你看著這個星球然後說:

  • "Ok, we see we have iron ore here. We have petroleum deposits here,"

    "好吧 我看到我們這裡有鐵礦石 我們在那裡有石油儲備"

  • if we're using petroleum at that point in time

    如果我們當時使用石油

  • in the future. Hopefully we will not be because it's damaging.

    在未來我們就不會用 因為石油是有害的

  • "We have places for great wind energy here." You get the point.

    "我們這裡有好的風力能源場地" 你得到重點了

  • We can assess the entire environment of what we currently use

    我們可以評估整個環境 和目前使用的東西

  • based on our technological facilities at that point

    根據我們當時的科技設施

  • and we start to create a structure of analysis, maintenance and management

    然後我們開始創造一個分析 維護 和管理的結構

  • and basically monitor and understand what we have.

    並基本上監控著我們瞭解的東西

  • -Then we can design the parameters for the new society.

    那麼我們就可以為新的社會設計參數

  • Without a survey we couldn't do that.

    如果沒有調查 我們就不能這樣做

  • Survey means physical disabilities, all the known diseases.

    調查意味著物理上的缺陷 所有已知的疾病

  • That tells us how many hospitals we have to build.

    告訴我們必須蓋多少座醫院

  • Of course, the survey would include available materials.

    當然 調查將會包括可取得的物質

  • Otherwise, if you just sit down and turn out a hospital or turn out a social plan

    否則如果你只是坐下來 然後變出一座醫院或一項社會計畫

  • not based on what you have

    這不是根據你所擁有的觀點

  • not based on what Fresco believes, only statistical evidence.

    也不是根據本人相信的觀點 而是根據統計的證據

  • The end of "What's your opinion? What's your opinion?"

    "你的意見是什麼?你的意見是什麼?" 這種方式

  • should have been gone in 1927.

    在1927年早就該消失了

  • -Then you move to the next level. How do we utilize resources in the most efficient way?

    接著你移動到下一個階段 我們如何以最有效率的方式利用資源?

  • Technology is the methodology to harness any type of resources we have.

    科技是控管我們任何資源類型的方法

  • Technology is the growing intellectual field that allows us to know

    科技是成長中的智識領域 允許我們瞭解

  • how to manipulate our environment for our betterment

    如何管理我們的環境 以改善自身

  • and to be more sustainable, hopefully.

    並希望能變得更永續

  • So what we do is we utilize our technical information

    因此我們做的是利用我們的科技資訊

  • and then we analyze the planetary resources.

    然後分析星球上的資源

  • Then we build from the ground up an entire infrastructure

    接著重新建立整個基礎建設

  • not based on the whims of any type of ideology, capitalist, socialist, fascist

    而不是根據任何種類意識型態的嘟嚷 像是資本主義者 社會主義者 法斯西主義者

  • whatever, what have you, communist.

    或任何你想到的 像共產主義者

  • You do it based explicitly on the most efficient means to do it

    你明確地根據最有效率的方式去達成

  • with the most peak efficiency possible based on the technology available at the time

    基於到時侯可用的科技 以及知識資源

  • the intellectual resource of the time.

    儘可能利用最高的效率

  • You have peak efficiency and sustainability as your goal.

    你的目標是最高效率和永續性

  • You just simply weigh all parameters when you analyze anything

    當你在分析任何事情時 只要考量到所有的變數

  • and then you're going to build a society that is, essentially

    那麼你就會建造一個實際上

  • for lack of a better expression, perfect.

    完美(找不到更好的表達)的社會

  • It's not perfect at all because it's going to constantly change

    這不是完美 因為它會不斷改變

  • but it's the best you can do at that point in time

    但那是到時侯 你所能做到的最好地步

  • which I think would be a variance of perfection.

    我認為這是完美的另一種變化

  • A Resource-Based Economy does not use money, barter or any form of servitude.

    資源導向型經濟不使用金錢 以物易物 或任何型態的屈服奴役...

  • It just makes goods and services available to everybody

    它只是透過對科技的智慧使用

  • through intelligent use of technology.

    把物品和服務提供給每一個人

  • Creative Director / Cinematographer / Director: Mark Waters

    創意總監/攝影/導演:馬克·沃特斯

  • Producer: Frank Da Silva

    製片:法蘭克達席爾瓦

  • Executive Producers: Dana Amma Day, Nicholas Pilbrow

    執行製作:達納阿瑪黛 尼可拉斯皮爾布羅

  • Production Assistant: Simon G. Powell

    製作助理:賽門鮑威爾

  • Storyboard Artist: Alexander Ward

    腳本藝術家:亞歷山力瓦德

  • An Earth 2 Production for Orion Network Films LLP

    地球2.0為獵戶座網路影片有限責任合夥製片

  • In Association with Positive TV and JustLivinFilm

    與"正面電視"和justlivinfilm聯合製作

  • Filmed on Location: Venus, Florida / New York City, NY

    影片拍攝地點:佛羅里達州 金星/紐約市

The views expressed in these interviews are those of the participants alone

在這些訪談中傳達的觀點 只是受訪者的觀點

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Zeitgeist The Summary (The Venus Project) (Zeitgeist The Summary (The Venus Project))

  • 114 6
    王惟惟 發佈於 2021 年 01 月 14 日
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