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  • The views expressed in these interviews are those of the participants alone

    在這些訪談中傳達的觀點 只是受訪者的觀點

  • and do not necessarily reflect the views of the producers or its sponsors.


  • Orion Network Films LLP


  • In Association with PositiveTV


  • Directed by Mark Waters


  • Presents


  • The Summary


  • The Zeitgeist Movement


  • My name is Peter Joseph.


  • I am currently the de facto founder of an organization called The Zeitgeist Movement


  • which is seeking to alter the current cultural climate, if you will

    尋求改變目前的文化氛圍 如果你想這麼理解的話

  • into something that can be considered as actually sustainable


  • for not just one nation or class but all the world's people.

    不只是為了一個國家或階級 而是為了世界上所有人

  • The Zeitgeist Movement


  • We live in a paradigm, now, where we have society operating

    現在我們生活於其中的模式 其社會運作的想法是

  • on the idea that we can grow infinitely.


  • Therefore, we keep buying and consuming regardless of how many resources we have.

    因此 我們持續購買並消費 而不管我們有多少資源

  • This creates a collision course with nature, which the world is figuring out right about now

    這與自然的軌道產生了衝突 而世界正在瞭解到這一點

  • on many levels, that the Earth is essentialy a closed system.

    即許多層面上 地球實際上是一個封閉的系統

  • It took billions of years to create the minerals we have.


  • It took many, many hundreds of millions of years


  • to create the fossil fuels which govern everything we have.


  • And, amazingly enough, we've created this system

    然而足以令人吃驚的是 我們創造了這個系統

  • where we're using all of our resources


  • to create the economic growth required to sustain employment and everything else.


  • And simultaneously, we're diminishing our resources at a near exponential rate

    而同時我們也正以指數級的速率 消耗著我們的資源

  • it seems, as population continues to grow


  • and no one seems to understand that it's an absolute clash

    但似乎無人瞭解 這是一個根本的矛盾衝突

  • and that eventually we're going to run out of pivotal resources


  • and eventually you're going to see things, I don't know,

    最後你將會看到 我不確定

  • like the human population start to dwindle down.


  • -My name is Jacque Fresco


  • and I'm going to present the concepts of The Venus Project.


  • The Venus Project


  • If you don't want war


  • if you don't want poverty


  • hunger


  • unemployment


  • you have to declare all the Earth's resources


  • as the common heritage of all the world's people.


  • All the artificial boundaries have to be removed


  • so that people can travel anywhere.


  • It has to be a global society.


  • There are many people that feel "Well, let's develop each country."

    有許多人會覺得 "嗯 那讓我們發展每一個國家吧"

  • You can't do that because if the Russians do experiments with nuclear materials

    但你不能如此做 因為如果俄國人進行核子材料的實驗

  • and the Chinese, that air goes all over the world.

    接著中國也如此做 那這個氛圍會擴散到全世界

  • So it's very hard to work independently.


  • So, I would say, if you want these things

    因此我會說 如果你想要達成上述目標

  • you have to change the way your society operates.


  • We believe, here at The Venus Project, we are not civilized yet.

    在金星計畫這裡 我們認為我們尚未文明化

  • As long as you have armies, navies, prisions, police, we are not civilized.

    只要你有軍隊 海軍 監獄 警察 那我們就不文明

  • No nation is civilized.


  • Being civilized is an ongoing process.


  • The more we learn, the more we know about the environment and human relations

    我們學到的越多 我們就越懂得環境和人類之間的關聯

  • the more we're able to deal with the problems.


  • If we fail to do that, we won't be able to solve problems.

    如果我們做不到這一點 我們就不能解決問題

  • If we go with traditional values, we won't be able to solve problems.

    如果我們照著傳統價值觀走 我們將不能解決問題

  • All of these pump-primers do not work.


  • There's always been wars. The wars have continued to get worse

    總是一直有戰爭 戰爭一直持續惡化

  • even though the universities today have the most sophisticated equipment


  • in the science labs, the architectural labs, all the labs

    在實驗室裡 像是建築實驗室 所有的實驗室等

  • and the wars are getting worse. Explosions are getting worse.

    然而戰爭卻變得更糟 爆炸越來越嚴重

  • Since the atom bomb, the explosive power is much worse.

    自從原子彈問世以來 爆炸性的力量越來越強大

  • So, there's something definitely wrong with all cultures.


  • When I say wrong, I mean that the system doesn't work.

    我說有問題的意思是 這個系統是無效的

  • Now, to talk about a system that does work is a little foreign to our habits of thought.

    對我們目前的慣性思維來說 談論一個確實有效的系統是有點陌生

  • I'm going to try to explain how we make decisions.


  • Actually, we don't make decisions.

    事實上 我們不是作決策

  • We arrive at them.


  • -The only way a real society can operate, period, is in a steady-state economy

    社會唯一真正能運行的方式 是處在經濟穩定的狀態中

  • meaning you don't have the mechanism of constantly needing to do anything


  • other than being sustainable in your every day living


  • and having society recognize the attributes of sustainability which are required.


  • That's the value-system orientation needed to create a stable society.

    這就是必要的價值導向系統 以創造一個穩定的社會

  • As a brief extension of this, we live in a materialistic culture.

    簡短延伸這個論點 我們生活在物質主義的文化中

  • We live in a culture that's predicated on inferiority

    我們生活的文化是奠基於低劣 次等 自卑

  • and people thinking that they need more and more and more because of many reasons

    而因為各種的理由 人們認為自己需要更多

  • because of someone else having more, status-oriented issues, so on and so forth.

    因為別人有更多東西 由地位所引發的問題等等

  • And that fuels into this mechanism of the growth economy


  • of getting more and more. Holidays...

    即要得到更多東西 所以在假日時

  • People give each other gifts. These are inventions for economics.

    人們給彼此禮物 這些是為了經濟而發明的

  • -As long as we use money and the bottom line is profit


  • then those who control the money are able to make the laws in their favor.

    那麼那些掌控著金錢的人 就可以訂定有利於他們的法律

  • And that means that they really don't care about people.


  • They care about wealth, property and power when that is the main incentive.

    他們關心財富 資產 和權力 當這些是東西主要動機時

  • So, when we use the monetary system, there is no justice within this system.

    也就是說 當我們使用金融貨幣體系 體系內就不會有公義

  • There's no making this system equitable.


  • What we need is an entirely new system that we call a Resource- Based Economy.

    我們需要的是一個全新的系統 我們稱之為資源導向型經濟

  • Resource-Based Economy


  • -In regard to social operation and how to create a new society

    關於社會的運作 與如何創造一個新社會

  • or better yet just to say to create any society that would be sustainable and efficient

    或是說 創造任何將會是永續和有效率的社會

  • there's really an empirical train of thought, if you will, on how to do that.

    如果你想要的話 真的會有一連串關於如何達成的實際想法

  • First of all, you have to think about what the human being actually needs.

    首先 你必須考慮人類真正需要什麼

  • We require resources at the bare minimum.


  • We require food, water, etc, as we all know.

    食物 水等等 眾所皆知

  • Therefore, resources become the most paramount subject.

    因此 資源變成最重要的主題

  • Resources in fact should be the foundation of any economic structure.


  • So, what do you do? If you consider that the Earth is a closed finite system.

    所以你要做什麼呢? 如果你考慮到地球是一個封閉的有限系統

  • -First thing you have to do is a survey of the Earth's resources


  • and the carrying capacity of the environment.


  • If you produce a population far in excess of the carrying capacity of the environment

    如果你產生的人口 遠遠超過環境的承載能力

  • you're going to have trouble.


  • You're going to have malnutrition and all the problems that go with it.


  • So, first we have to find out what can each successive environment carry

    因此我們必須找出 每一個相繼而來的環境能承載什麼

  • and maintain a population in accordance with the carrying capacity of the Earth.

    並維持人口 使其與地球的承載能力達成平衡

  • Not what I like or somebody else likes or some politician notions.

    而不是我喜歡什麼或其它人喜歡什麼 或一些政治家的意見

  • It has to be based upon the carrying capacity of the Earth.


  • -To organize a structure based on the intelligent management of the Earth resources

    根據對地球資源的智慧管理 來組織一個結構

  • you start from, essentially, the base level of where is everything.

    實際上 你要從每件事物的根本開始做起

  • So, you look at the planet and you say


  • "Ok, we see we have iron ore here. We have petroleum deposits here,"

    "好吧 我看到我們這裡有鐵礦石 我們在那裡有石油儲備"

  • if we're using petroleum at that point in time


  • in the future. Hopefully we will not be because it's damaging.

    在未來我們就不會用 因為石油是有害的

  • "We have places for great wind energy here." You get the point.

    "我們這裡有好的風力能源場地" 你得到重點了

  • We can assess the entire environment of what we currently use

    我們可以評估整個環境 和目前使用的東西

  • based on our technological facilities at that point


  • and we start to create a structure of analysis, maintenance and management

    然後我們開始創造一個分析 維護 和管理的結構

  • and basically monitor and understand what we have.


  • -Then we can design the parameters for the new society.


  • Without a survey we couldn't do that.

    如果沒有調查 我們就不能這樣做

  • Survey means physical disabilities, all the known diseases.

    調查意味著物理上的缺陷 所有已知的疾病

  • That tells us how many hospitals we have to build.


  • Of course, the survey would include available materials.

    當然 調查將會包括可取得的物質

  • Otherwise, if you just sit down and turn out a hospital or turn out a social plan

    否則如果你只是坐下來 然後變出一座醫院或一項社會計畫

  • not based on what you have


  • not based on what Fresco believes, only statistical evidence.

    也不是根據本人相信的觀點 而是根據統計的證據

  • The end of "What's your opinion? What's your opinion?"

    "你的意見是什麼?你的意見是什麼?" 這種方式

  • should have been gone in 1927.


  • -Then you move to the next level. How do we utilize resources in the most efficient way?

    接著你移動到下一個階段 我們如何以最有效率的方式利用資源?

  • Technology is the methodology to harness any type of resources we have.


  • Technology is the growing intellectual field that allows us to know

    科技是成長中的智識領域 允許我們瞭解

  • how to manipulate our environment for our betterment

    如何管理我們的環境 以改善自身

  • and to be more sustainable, hopefully.


  • So what we do is we utilize our technical information


  • and then we analyze the planetary resources.


  • Then we build from the ground up an entire infrastructure


  • not based on the whims of any type of ideology, capitalist, socialist, fascist

    而不是根據任何種類意識型態的嘟嚷 像是資本主義者 社會主義者 法斯西主義者

  • whatever, what have you, communist.

    或任何你想到的 像共產主義者

  • You do it based explicitly on the most efficient means to do it


  • with the most peak efficiency possible based on the technology available at the time

    基於到時侯可用的科技 以及知識資源

  • the intellectual resource of the time.


  • You have peak efficiency and sustainability as your goal.


  • You just simply weigh all parameters when you analyze anything

    當你在分析任何事情時 只要考量到所有的變數

  • and then you're going to build a society that is, essentially


  • for lack of a better expression, perfect.


  • It's not perfect at all because it's going to constantly change

    這不是完美 因為它會不斷改變

  • but it's the best you can do at that point in time

    但那是到時侯 你所能做到的最好地步

  • which I think would be a variance of perfection.


  • A Resource-Based Economy does not use money, barter or any form of servitude.

    資源導向型經濟不使用金錢 以物易物 或任何型態的屈服奴役...

  • It just makes goods and services available to everybody


  • through intelligent use of technology.


  • Creative Director / Cinematographer / Director: Mark Waters


  • Producer: Frank Da Silva


  • Executive Producers: Dana Amma Day, Nicholas Pilbrow

    執行製作:達納阿瑪黛 尼可拉斯皮爾布羅

  • Production Assistant: Simon G. Powell


  • Storyboard Artist: Alexander Ward


  • An Earth 2 Production for Orion Network Films LLP


  • In Association with Positive TV and JustLivinFilm


  • Filmed on Location: Venus, Florida / New York City, NY

    影片拍攝地點:佛羅里達州 金星/紐約市

The views expressed in these interviews are those of the participants alone

在這些訪談中傳達的觀點 只是受訪者的觀點


影片操作 你可以在這邊進行「影片」的調整,以及「字幕」的顯示

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Zeitgeist The Summary (The Venus Project) (Zeitgeist The Summary (The Venus Project))

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    王惟惟 發佈於 2021 年 01 月 14 日