Sanctions put into place by the United States and the European Union

由美國與歐盟的制裁落實到位

are starting to hurt the people of Iran in a major way

以嚴重的方式開始傷害伊朗人民

with access to food and other imports blocked.

像是阻止人們取得食物及其它進口物資

The West hopes that the pain will bring Iran

西方國家希望這些痛苦會把伊朗

back to the bargaining table, in terms of its nuclear program.

帶回到核子計劃的談判桌

In the meantime, Israel is stepping up its threats

在此期間 以色列正加緊威脅

that an attack on Iran may be imminent

可能一觸即發攻擊伊朗

with Israel's Defense Minister Ehud Barak drawing a line in the sand.

以色列國防部長埃胡德·巴拉克開始軍事沙盤推演

He calls it the 'zone of immunity'

他稱之為「免疫區」

the point at which Israel could no longer put off taking action.

在該點 以色列不能再拖延採取行動:

In the West's efforts to isolate Iran

即西方對伊朗的孤立

India has announced it will send a delegation into Iran

印度已經宣布將派遣代表團到伊朗

and has now emerged as Number1 customer of Iranian oil.

現在已經成為伊朗石油的第一客戶

There are new indications China also will send in officials

有新跡象表明 中國也將派出官員

and this global chess match looks like it may be

參與全球角力大賽 看起來

a messy one and a long one.

可能是一個混亂漫長的一年

Peter Joseph is the founder of The Zeitgeist Movement.

彼得·約瑟夫是時代精神運動的創始人

His group works to tackle some of the toughest issues:

他的研究小組致力於解決一些最棘手的問題:

global economic crises, diplomatic issues, and a lot more.

全球經濟危機、 外交問題和更多

He just returned from Israel.

他剛從以色列回來

- Hey there, Peter. I know you spent about a week there.

-嘿 彼得 我知道你花了大約一個星期在那裡

Talk to me a little bit about your impressions of Israel

跟我講一點你對以色列人的印象

of the people you spoke to, and what's going on there.

你和那邊的人談過 那邊發生了什麼事?

- Thank you Kristine for having me.

-克里斯汀 謝謝你邀請我

Israel is in a very complex state.

以色列處在一個非常複雜的狀況中

On one side you have a very intelligent public

一方面 它有非常有智慧的公眾

that is not representative of the state

但他們無法代表這個國家

that's causing all of these general war-like interests:

而此國家正導致所有因戰爭而普遍產生的利益:

interest in the occupation, the prisons of the West Bank and Gaza

佔領約旦河西岸和加薩走廊的監獄的利益

and everything else that I'm sure we've talked at length, to death about.

或是其它一些事 我敢肯定 我們已經談得夠多了

It's important to initially point out that

重要的是一開始要指出

there's an incredible culture there that does not represent the state.

有一個了不起的文化並不代表這個國家就了不起

In the speech that I gave to a sold-out audience

在我這場演說中 全場滿座的聽眾

full of not only Israelis but Palestinians

不只有以色列人 還有巴勒斯坦人

there is a general interest to want to see all of these problems STOP.

人們普遍有興趣想看到解決所有這些問題

The Zeitgeist Movement's attempt, broadly speaking

總體上來說 時代精神運動試圖

is to get the world to come together with the general foundation

透過普世性的基礎來團結全世界

that these issues have to find resolution holistically

我們必須要尋求解決這些問題的整體方案

or we're going to have some very caustic problems in the future

否則我們在未來將面對非常日益棘手的問題

World War III the first to mention.

首先就是第三次世界大戰

- When you say these issues, as you say

-當你談論這些問題時 就像你說的

war is one of these issues, and it's not just as simple as:

戰爭是這些問題之一 它不像以下的問題那樣簡單:

Should we have war or shouldn't we? I mean, there is

「我們究竟該不該有戰爭?」 我的意思是

number one, a huge defense industry, both in the US and Israel

第一 一個巨大的國防產業 在美國和以色列都有

that, a lot of people say, may have an interest in war.

有很多人說 他們對引發戰爭相當有興趣

I know you've written about in the past, as far as consequences of war

我知道你之前寫過關於戰爭後果的評論

that it benefits the upper class

它有利於上層階級

and it results in the denigration of the lower class.

也會導致對低下階層的貶損

Talk to me about this divide as it relates to war

當涉及到戰爭 除了合法性的威脅

and if you think there's an undercurrent of something else here

如果你認為還有其他暗藏的東西

other than a legitimate threat.

請跟我談談這個鴻溝

- We often hear the term geopolitics;

-我們經常聽到「地緣政治」這個詞

the correct term is geo-economics.

正確的說法是地緣經濟學

If you go down to the foundation of the state:

如果你看到一個國家的基礎

Neolithic Revolution 10,000 years ago

從一萬年前的新石器時代革命開始

suddenly we went from hunter-gatherer type of nomadic societies

我們是突然從狩獵採集類型的遊牧社會

to fixed cities, Mesopotamia

發展成固定的城市 美索不達米亞平原

suddenly the introduction of the permanent military.

並突然引進永久性軍事活動

You ended up with this sort of corporate approach

結果變成這種軍火業的經營方式

to economic management, defined as 'the state'

來管理經濟 並定義為「國家」

which invariably generates imbalance and conflict

這不可避免地會產生失衡和衝突

and the necessity to override the interests of other states.

並必然衝突到其它國家的利益

Very similar by the way to how our economic principles work

順便一提 我們的經濟原則在世界各地的運作方式

across the world, through the corporate enterprise and the

很相似 即通過企業財團之間的

'free-for-all' market as I often refer to it.

「自由貿易」市場 就像我經常提到的

It's a competitive, war-like system. In the broadest scope

最廣義來說 這是一個競爭性 類似戰爭的系統

what do we expect when the states begin to behave this way?

一旦國家開始有這樣的行為 我們還能指望什麼?

If you were to look at a map of all the territorial disputes

如果你看一下地圖上的所有領土爭端

all the resource acquisitions, all the annexations gone through history

與所有資源收購 歷史上的所有併吞

it's one massive affair of warfare! Thousands and thousands of wars

這便是一種巨大的戰爭! 成千上萬的戰爭

that have existed for the past 5000 years that have been noted.

在過去五千年已載入史冊

The problem is much more underlying.

問題還在更深層的地方

We can talk about the specifics of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

我們可以談論以巴衝突的細節

We can talk about the Chinese, Russian and Iranian issue

我們可以談論中國 俄羅斯和伊朗的問題

with respect to power development against US

關於發展武力來對抗美國

Israel, Canadian and Western interests

與以色列 加拿大和西方國家的利益

which is very terrifying by the way

這些都是很可怕的

especially given the financial burden and collapse

特別是考慮到財政負擔和崩潰

we're seeing across the world, which is always

我們正在世界各地看到 而這些常常是

a characteristic of warfare on the horizon.

戰爭即將爆發的一種特質

Underneath the whole thing is the economic premise

整個問題根源是經濟基礎的假設

and until we find economic resolution

而且直到我們找到如何解決經濟問題

until we begin to learn how to share our resources

直到我們開始學習如何分享我們的資源之前

speaking poetically, but very literally:

這是富有詩意的講法 但字面意思就是:

Until we can define a new level of what we see as peace

直到我們可以定義一個新的和平水準

meaning a collaborative effort

意思是共同努力

not state entities seeking their own advantage over each other

而非國家之間互相爭奪自身利益

but something new, which I can talk at length

而是嘗試新方法 我可以再說更多一點

we're not going to see any resolution to any of these issues.

否則我們無法找到任何的問題解決方案

That's a fundamental premise, in part, of the type of

某部分而言 這就是時代精神運動

economic reforms The Zeitgeist Movement pushes forward with.

所要推動的經濟改革基本假設

- What was your reasoning, Peter, for taking this movement?

-彼得 你推行這個運動的理由是為了什麼?

I know you've got a lot of followers from around the world.

我知道你有很多來自世界各地的追隨者

What was your reasoning for going physically to Israel

是什麼原因讓你親自去拜訪以色列

and speaking there?

並發表你的演說?

- Well, because it is the hotbed of a great deal of tension in the world

-嗯 因為它是世界上最緊張的區域

it's seen as one of the most pivotal crises and

以巴衝突被視為最關鍵的危機之一

positions of destabilization in the world.

處於全球不穩定的位置

It was symbolic to go there and to speak on the issue of war.

這是象徵性的造訪 為戰爭問題發聲

The lecture that I gave was on the broad definition of the state:

我演講的內容是關於國家的廣泛定義

its evolution as I mentioned just a moment ago

其發展正如我剛才所提到的

and how we really can resolve this issue.

而我談論如何能確實解決這個問題

I went there for symbolic reasons, but also

我去那裡的原因是象徵性的

obviously, because of the growing tensions

但顯然也因為日益緊張的趨勢而去那裡

between these massive superpowers

在這些龐大的超級大國之間

that are now dividing themselves

它們現在正在分裂自身

that can very easily trigger another world war, which is

這很容易引發另一次世界大戰

what terrifies all of us. Those are a few levels [of] why I was there.

這嚇壞了我們所有人 這就是我為何到以色列的幾個層面的考量

- You've laid out some of these problems

-你已經指出了其中的一些問題

and I think that they're, for anyone who is following what's going on

我也認為(對正在關注這些事情的人而言)

keeping their hand on a pulse of geopolitics

他們正在維持並干涉地緣政治的脈動

or as you say geo-economics

或像你說的地緣經濟

these issues are out there. But, are there solutions available

這些問題都在那裡 但是有沒有解決方案?

or do you just think war is inevitable between Iran and the West?

還是你認為伊朗和西方國家之間的戰爭是必然的?

I'm not a prophet, but I will say that generally speaking

我不是預言家 但我會說 一般來講

war has been inevitable for a long time

戰爭已不可避免地存在了很長一段時間

based on the very nature of the structures that have been installed

其基礎是早已根深蒂固的社會結構本質

and the very dynamic of our economic system.

及變化莫測的的經濟體系

Are there solutions that can be had in the meantime? Yes

而在這期間我們是否能有解決方案? 是有的

but I don't think they're going to come from

但我不認為那會來自

'speaking truth to power' as they say.

如人們所說的「說真相給權力者聽」

I am in deep support of a large, grassroots, global movement

我極力支持大型 基層 全球性的運動

that unifies humanity to step up against this rather sick distortion

人類透過這些運動團結起來 以加緊對抗這個已嚴重畸形

that has emerged throughout power across the board.

但已成為影響全球的一股勢力

We can talk about the neuroses of the US Empire

我們可以討論美國帝國的偏執

...about the neuroses of various Arabic states, of Israel as well.

或是有關阿拉伯國家的狂熱 或是以色列等等

We can talk about all of these things to death as far as the specifics

我們可以討論所有這些種種特定細節到死為止

but at the very core of this comes a deep social change

但在這些問題的核心裡 涉及的是一個

that's required, and it's going to take a grassroots movement

最深的社會變革 並要採取一個最基層的運動

to move this forward; I have little faith in the change

來推動向前 我對來自美國帝國的改變

coming from the state empires.

不具信心

- We understand that you'll be working on it in the meantime.

-我們知道你此時正為此努力中

Peter Joseph, founder of The Zeitgeist Movement.

彼得·約瑟夫 時代精神運動的創始人