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  • really offsets

  • its pleasure to welcome to the program having impose writer and author I love

  • rise of the warrior cop a radley Balko Radley welcome to the program

  • I'm a quarter tank I'm am so I Radley let's start we give us a little bit %uh

  • vay

  • a historical context when did the

  • the cop start to rise to becoming a a warrior

  • well I think it goes back

  • to the late sixties actually I turned experience in civil unrest

  • a.m. you US I in really the

  • precipitating incident was probably the watts riots 1965 in LA

  • I the headed the the in San

  • inspector at the LAPD I'm about to become is cheap daryl gates

  • I was in charge I'll LAPD's reaction to the rights and

  • he was alarms that I

  • because the department do we have an act that way of responding

  • axes kind so the emergency situation to read lives in the

  • risk I and active shooter is a riot

  • I'll hostage takings no emergency type situation

  • I came up with this idea I

  • to turn the military I military hat the no special forces I

  • schemes that I could respond quickly

  • %ah who are no be highly-trained specialized I

  • anchored years you would use overwhelming force too quickly

  • I defuse a violent situation on so we

  • put together this what this team any color they are

  • Joaquin and he I initially babe responsibility was interesting man

  • actually

  • I did not it's a great partner did not like the idea is that it tried to close

  • to art greeting the line between

  • I the tactical police and the military that week to decide

  • respect than the last I hear whether legal news he took over the gate

  • got the green light to go ahead with this idea after a couple

  • high-profile raid on one on the black panthers one on the

  • and the Liberation Army ever nationally televised

  • and I really can't have propelled this idea joaquim into the

  • popular culture and by the nineteen seventies pretty much every large city

  • in the country

  • I had one we the thing about

  • the seventies knowing that the early the first decade or so

  • what is that they were they were always reserved for the and emergency

  • situations where you're

  • you're using by one to defuse an alright already violent situation and your

  • saving lives better are your risk hospital in the nineteen eighties that

  • we started the

  • biking a converge with the drug war

  • and we started the a massive massive increase and E

  • uses why %uh mostly to serve warrant

  • on people suspected drug crime and

  • no hear you're using violence are you actually creating beilin

  • but there was none before you're not using violence to

  • you know de-escalate something you know and already violent situation

  • I and your YouTube what actually is an investigative tool

  • I'll know we force walking for use with people who know when the processor

  • committing crimes so there's no question about that ill

  • I but by in the 80's 90's &

  • not until today what is overwhelmingly used against people who

  • you're not only a haven't been convicted of any crime

  • I but has have you been charged and the police are still in the

  • evidence-gathering stated their investigation

  • and that's really where nope and most the

  • a my criticism in the book comes I it's not

  • an anti squat worker and by copyright even at look at the policies that really

  • a behind this shift from using

  • what emerges education use in a more proactively and and then

  • as an investigative cool in it seems to me to do that

  • the the Serta the the culture around

  • swat if if you if you can call it that

  • his sort have bled into the the police department I mean I remember in the

  • early eighties

  • I N in in my hometown Massachusetts

  • having some SWAT guy come to our classroom or something

  • and the a the the IDS what was just very it seem compartmentalized that it was a

  • very specific group of police

  • I who on the force who had access to the year

  • and had access to the training and it seems on some level that that that serve

  • comparte

  • the I don't wanna collar firewall but it

  • whatever it was it seems like that wall has sort of

  • maybe in some respects just disappeared totally

  • yeah and I think that's a larger story here that this culture of

  • I'll militarization as let out be on the swat teams

  • I and it really affected I a lot of police departments across the country

  • are more and more widespread way in I mean

  • you know it isn't just the paramilitary tactics but it's also a mindset

  • I'm along with the explosions a

  • the number use a SWAT teams we seen I

  • you know politicians that constantly told police officers at the fight more

  • surprising was on drugs and crime

  • on terrorism I and you know please allow to respond to switch from the

  • traditional police blues

  • what they call BTU's are battle dress uniforms

  • this know they've they've adopted more military look

  • I and yes you can see this in you know the

  • the the way that police officers approached their jobs I

  • if you take a copy for a min you know soldiers clothing and give them

  • soldiers weapons and in a minute soldiers tactic for men

  • and about on the street and tom is fighting a war

  • that's going to have I you know an impact on the way he approaches

  • jobs in the way because the job really interact with the community that he

  • serves

  • to tell us a little bit about what that impact is

  • when the the rubber meets the road because I i think that

  • I think that dynamic I love you know you start dressing someone like a

  • a member the paramilitary organization they're gonna start to feel like they're

  • a member of the paramilitary organization mean what are the

  • implications are that

  • in terms of policing get what I mean in addition to just that you know the

  • explosion in the number swat teams but I i think you know he's getting a lot of

  • I if you get a police discussion board online you know

  • to see a lot of fun iterations that the phrase

  • a base with Becca I'll do whatever have to do to get home safely at night

  • I any luck that is a a battlefield

  • mentality right I'm gonna do whatever I have to do to get home safe

  • I that is not not a far cry from protected protect and serve or

  • keep the peace I'm there is a

  • the police officers are are told every day that their job is

  • I you know extremely dangerous and and getting more dangerous impact

  • I noted certainly important research job in mind the journalist but

  • did the job does not mean not that usually not in the top 15 or 20 most

  • dangerous jobs in the country

  • I in a vacuum it a cup car accident I

  • the odds are they results are being killed murdered on the job about the

  • same as

  • I being murdered by living and most large cities in the US

  • I'll so you know this isn't the no

  • I I diminish the fact that some police officers accident on the job

  • the problem with this is that your the job last year also been a pressure that

  • I'll acid say your with officers substance or 1960

  • I into the comment is it up with others every day that

  • I you know their job is extremely dangerous in every interaction with the

  • president could be their last

  • I you encourage them to start seeing citizen

  • as blacks and every citizen as a potential threat and person who

  • you know mate people the one who prevent them from going home at night

  • and that really fosters a a are

  • you know an antagonistic relationship again between cops in

  • in the community I'm you see this with

  • other stop snitching movement that kinda bubbled up in a number city

  • and you know what do you think that movement and I understand people who

  • find it

  • you know repugnant the idea that people will cooperate with police even

  • in a murder investigation for example com you don't understand

  • gonna behind it and it's pretty remarkable that there are entire

  • no communities in this country where a residential community

  • I your could be more than they fear the people the police are supposed to be

  • protecting them from

  • and I think we need to look at you know why that is the know you can blame it on

  • the pop culture if you want but

  • I not think there is something more and a fundamentalist a connection that is it

  • goes back to

  • again this shit and releasing them be seen in the last generation or so

  • so was it i mean i i know that

  • you really focus on on the drug war

  • as being sort of the the catalyst or I should say the

  • maybe the fuel that the that was added to the sort of a fire that had bedded

  • begun in terms of creating swat teams

  • I just outlined for us sort of how that other drug war evolved in

  • what up what laws that came in

  • that sorta followed I guess on a parallel track or maybe

  • I am a one that should have drove

  • this the this change in police culture

  • yet you know the good word

  • again in the next administration and when he declared war on drugs