Ah, Admiralty, Hong Kong...

噢，香港的金鐘站…

I remember being here two years ago during the Umbrella Movement.

我記得兩年前雨傘運動那段期間 我曾來過這裡

In 2014, the people of Hong Kong -

在 2014 年，以年輕人為主的

mainly young people -

香港人民

took to the streets for 79 days

走上街頭抗議長達 79 天

to protest for their right to directly elect their leader -

為了爭取直選的權利

Something Beijing promised under the One Country - Two Systems policy

北京在一國兩制的政策下 曾承諾香港人民這項權利

but, spoiler alert: they lied.

但…有雷注意…結果都是唬爛

I remember it all so clearly.

我到現在還記憶猶新

That's where I slept in a tent.

我當時在那裡搭帳棚

Right where that BMW is driving by.

就在那台 BMW 經過的位置

Over there, that was the Lennon Wall.

你看那邊，那是連儂牆

I can almost see student leader, Joshua Wong, giving a rousing speech!

我似乎又看到了學生領袖 黃之鋒慷慨激昂的演說身影！

Oh wait... that is Joshua Wong!

呃等等…那就是黃之鋒啊！

Joshua!

之鋒！

Joshua!

之鋒！

Joshua! Joshua!

之鋒！之鋒！

Hi - hi!

- 嗨 - 嗨！

Do you mind if I get an interview with you?

你願意接受我的採訪嗎？

Oh, of course - okay!

喔，當然好啊，OK！

Awesome. Can we go somewhere quieter?

太好了，不過我們可以去 安靜點的地方嗎？

Yeah, that side is better.

也對，那邊比較適合

Alright, let's go - Okay!

- 好的，那就走吧！ - OK！

Well, Joshua, thank you for agreeing to be interviewed.

[黃之鋒 香港社運人士] 謝謝你願意接受採訪

What's it like for you to be back here at Admiralty?

重回金鐘站帶給你什麼樣的感覺？

It's the place, two years ago, we occupied and create

兩年前，我們佔領此地

a miracle, or even the history of Hong Kong.

並創造了奇蹟 甚至為香港歷史寫下新的一頁

And it's also a place where now I work,

而這裡也是我現在工作的地方

and because I'm already the assistant of legislator, Nathan Law.

我目前擔任立法會議員羅冠聰的秘書長

Do you think, some day, they'll build big statues of you?

你覺得人們哪天會幫你立個雕像嗎？

Uh, it's a bit too far away, in fact.

呃，其實我還差得遠呢

You're being too modest.

是你太謙虛了

Would you consider another mass movement like the Umbrella?

你有考慮將來發起另一場類似 雨傘運動的大規模抗爭行動嗎？

Next year, March, will be the chief executive election.

明年三月將要舉行行政長官大選

I believe it will be a critical point for Hong Kongers

我相信那對香港人民來說 會是個關鍵的時機

to have a massive social movement

能發動一場大型的社會運動

to show our anger to the indifference of Beijing again.

並再次表達我們對於 北京政府的冷漠感到憤怒

How do you think that will be different from two years ago?

你覺得這場運動跟兩年前會有什麼不同？

I would say that there's too much uncertainty.

我認為這其中包含了太多的不確定性

After the Umbrella Movement ended,

當年雨傘運動結束

with the bookseller incident happened,

緊接著便發生銅鑼灣書店事件

kidnapped from Hong Kong to China,

幾名書商從香港境內被綁架到中國

how I've been detained in Bangkok airport

我之前在曼谷機場被拘留

because the Thai government hoped to remain in good relations with China.

只因泰國政府希望與中國保持良好關係

And how disqualified two pro-independence legislators.

再加上兩位支持獨立的 立法會議員被取消資格

It seems we already faced the failure of One Country - Two Systems,

如今我們面臨的是一國兩制的失敗

And the road to a high degree of autonomy,

而香港達成高度自治

the path of Hong Kong to a democracy

和民主的一天

is really far away, in fact.

也顯得更加遙遙無期

Do you think there's any hope of maintaining One Coutry - Two Systems with the Communist Party?

你認為與共產黨維持 一國兩制是有希望的嗎？

Hope for the best, prepare for the worst.

抱最好的希望，做最壞的打算

It's a long-term battle.

這是一場長期抗戰

I can see the hope from people. But I can't see the hope from Communist Party.

我從人民身上感受得到希望 但從共產黨則看不見任何希望

The people are always the trigger pull to create a miracle.

人民總是那個能引發奇蹟的關鍵

That's why it will be a motivator for me to continue to fight.

也是使我能持續奮鬥的力量

I still have hope for Hong Kongers.

我對香港人依舊充滿著希望

And you co-founded a new party, Demosistō.

你和其他人共同創立了 一個新政黨叫「香港眾志」

What are the goals of that party?

這個政黨的目標是什麼？

What we hope is to push for South determination movement.

我們希望能推動「南方自決運動」

We believe Hong Kong has gained the right of self-determination.

我們相信香港已具有自決的權力

To have a democratic procedure or even referendum

能形成民主程序，甚至是舉辦公投

to decide the constitution,

並自行決定憲法

and sovereignty of Hong Kong after the end of

確立香港主權

15 years unchanged policy,

我們希望能在經過 15 年 一成不變的政策之後

in 2047.

於 2047 年前能達成以上的訴求

And what does Demosistō think of Hong Kong independence?

那麼香港眾志對於香港獨立有何看法呢？

Is that different from self-determination?

這與人民自決不同嗎？

In fact, in the policy platform of Demosistō, we do not advocate independence.

事實上，在香港眾志的 政策平台中，我們不主張獨立

But what we do believe is the sovereignty of Hong Kong should be decided

但我們認為香港的主權應由

by people in Hong Kong.

香港人民來決定

Of course, the pro-Beijing force would hope to turn One Country - Two System

當然，親北京派會希望將一國兩制

into One Country - One system.

轉為一國一制

But in the referendum, no matter One Country - One System,

但只要能實踐全民公投 無論是一國一制

One Country - Two System,

一國兩制

complete autonomy or independence,

完全自主或是獨立

they can be possible options to let Hong Kongers decide their future.

這些都是可能的選項 能讓香港人民決定自己的未來

And in the Demosistō manifesto, it says people should rise up.

香港眾志的創黨宣言裡提到： 人民應該要挺身而出反抗政權

Are you sure that's a good idea?

你確定這是個好點子嗎？

I would say that,

我認為

Now Hong Kongers are facing the largest communist regime in the world.

香港人民如今面對的是 世界上最大的共產主義政權

It will be a long term battle,

這會是一場長期抗戰

after the Umbrella Movement ended, we may feel downhearted

在雨傘運動結束後 人們可能會感到心灰意冷

and depressed.

和沮喪

But after the legislative election,

但在歷經立法會選舉、

and with the positive result of new generation,

新一代年輕人的正面支持、

and a civil society force to enter the institution,

以及民間社會力量進入政治體系之後

It proved that we need to continue the fight.

證明我們需要持續奮鬥

And in America, there's a feeling that young people don't care about politics.

在美國許多年輕人都不關心政治

Why is Hong Kong making America look bad?

為何香港人民能讓美國自嘆不如呢？

I would say that,

我的看法是

just like the presidential election,

例如像是總統選舉

of course it's hard for the majority

當然對於大多數的人民

young generation or university student

包括年輕一代或大學生來說

to involve or support those mainstream candidates.

要參與或支持那些主流候選人是很困難的

But how they're involved in the crowdfunding campaign of Bernie Sanders

但是從他們參與伯尼·桑德斯 的群眾集資活動的行動

and already proved that, young people, they may be

已經證明，這些年輕人或許

dissatisfied with the old or existing

對於舊有或現存的

institution, traditional politician.

制度和傳統政治人物感到不滿

But they will still hope to gain the new voices and to

但他們仍希望能擁有新的聲音

get the change to the system.

並希望政治體系能有所改變

It's also the reason for me to

而這也是為什麼我

found the political party after the end of the Umbrella Movement.

在雨傘運動結束後會創立一個政黨

It's necessary for us to keep the momentum and let

我們必須保持氣勢

people in Hong Kong and the world know that

讓香港人民與全世界知道

young generation in Hong Kong will still continue to strike on the street,

香港的年輕一代依舊 會持續上街頭抗議

but also enter the institution to be the legislator.

並且會設法進入立法會成為議員

So recently, you met with politicians in the US.

最近你與美國的幾位政治人物會面

What's your hopes for the US getting involved?

你對美國參與香港議題的期待是什麼？

The threat of China is not just only affecting people in Hong Kong, China, or Taiwan.

來自中國的威脅不僅只 影響香港、中國與台灣人民

It affects the whole of Southeast Asia or Asia-Pacific.

它還影響了整個東南亞與亞太地區

Just like I've been blacklisted by Malaysia,

例如像是我被馬來西亞列入黑名單

and Thai government detained me -

而且被泰國政府居留過

all because they hope to maintain

這都是因為他們希望與

foreign relationship with China and Beijing government!

中國和北京政府維持邦交關係！

So I would say that,

所以我的看法是

I just urge the international community

我呼籲國際社會

to keep their eyes in Hong Kong.

密切關注香港局勢

And just like how Senators Rubio and Cotton

正如同美國參議員魯比歐和柯頓

have raised the Hong Kong Human Rights and Democracy Act

提出了《香港人權與民主法案》

to show the support of the international community

以表示國際社會對於

on the democracy movement in Hong Kong.

香港民主運動的支持

It will be a positive trend in the future.

而這會成為未來正向的趨勢

Now you and I have both been accused of being in the CIA.

你和我都曾被指控為美國中情局工作

Are you a part of the CIA?

請問你是中情局的一員嗎？

Of course not!

當然不是啊！

Yeah, they were saying I'm a CIA agent.

沒錯，人們都說我是中情局特務

And also, claim that I've been controlled,

而且聲稱我受到美國政府的控制

that I've been receiving training from US Marines...

並且接受美國海軍陸戰隊的訓練…

I just remember the comment of my peers,

我只記得我的同伴對此的評論是：

"Comparing your body size to Tom Cruise, of course you're not a CIA agent!"

「你的身材和湯姆克魯斯差那麼多 怎麼可能是中情局特務！」

Well, that's exactly what a CIA agent would say.

嗯，這聽起來正像是 一位中情局特務會說的話

So what's your view on Yau Wai-ching and Baggio Leung's oath-taking?

那麼，你對於游蕙禎和梁頌恆議員 的就職宣誓事件有什麼看法嗎？

I would say that I disagree with using this kind of racist term

我想我不同意使用這種種族歧視的字眼

to do it for the message in the oath.

來作為宣誓內容

If they support Hong Kong independence, they can directly voice out the slogan of,

若是他們支持香港獨立 他們大可直接高呼口號

they can demand Hong Kong independence instead of using this kind of

或是可以提出香港獨立的訴求 而非使用這種詆毀字眼

terms, or words to elaborate on their political stance.

來闡述他們的政治立場

But I would say that the disqualified

但我想說的是 北京政府取消

by Beijing is just

這兩位議員的資格

proving how Beijing

證明了北京政府

betrayed and ignored their promise in the joint declaration.

背叛且忽略他們在聯合聲明中所做的承諾

Especially on how they

尤其是他們

would try to override the judicial system and legislature.

試圖凌駕於司法制度與立法會之上

And the whole of the system is just for viewing the interests of Beijing.

而這整個政治體系只單純 著眼於北京政府的利益

And just to clarify for the audience,

在此我想先向觀眾解釋清楚

When you mentioned the slur, it was the specific use of

你剛才提到所謂的詆毀 具體來說是使用了

the term, "Chee-na,"

「支那」這個詞彙

Which is what the Japanese used to refer to the Chinese during World War II,

而這是日本人在第二次世界大戰 期間用來稱呼中國的字眼

which has become somewhat of a racial slur.

如今變成有點種族歧視的詞彙

You were refused entry to both Thailand and Malaysia.

你曾被拒絕入境泰國和馬來西亞

Are there other countries that you're banned from visiting?

你有遭其他國家拒絕入境嗎？

Of course! Mainland China.

當然有啊，中國大陸

Yeah, and I've been invited by the activist group

是的，我之前曾受新加坡

in Singapore that supports Amos Yee

支持余澎杉的社運團體所邀請

but because, due to my personal safety,

但因為考量到我的人身安全

I just suggested to have a Skype conference with them

我後來只提議與他們進行 Skype 視訊會議

because I don't want to be detained

因為我不想再一次被拘留在

in Bangkok, in a detention cell again.

類似曼谷的看守所

Are you concerned for your safety? I know you've gotten

你會擔心你個人的安全嗎？ 我知道你曾被

beaten up, bloodied.

毆打流血

It's really inconvenient, being Hong Kongist.

在香港當社運人士真的很不方便

I have been blacklisted by most Southeast Asia countries already.

我已經被大多數東南亞國家列入黑名單

So no matter,

所以無論何時

in the holiday, if I hope to get a trip

比方說我想利用假期去海外旅行

overseas, my options are quite limited.

我的選項會相當受限

And I know when you were just 18,

我知道在你 18 歲那年

Fortune Magazine listed you as one of the greatest leaders in the world.

美國的《財星》雜誌將你 選為世界最傑出的領袖之一

Do you have any advice for other inspiring great leaders? I'm asking for a friend.

你對其他同樣鼓舞人心的傑出領袖有什麼建議嗎？ 這是幫我朋友問的

I would say that,

我會說

Fortune Magazine in 1997

《財星》雜誌在 1997 年

had a cover story with the title, "The Death of Hong Kong."

有一期的封面故事標題為「香港之死」

But 18 years later, they chose me to be the

但在 18 年後，他們將我選為

"10 Greatest Leaders in the World."

「世界十大傑出領袖」

I'm not saying I'm the greatest leader in the world. I actually disagree on this.

我並不是要說我是最偉大的領袖 我其實不同意這點

But I think it just proves to the world

但我認為這向世界證明了

if you guys think Hong Kong is already dead,

假如有人認為香港已死

it's wrong.

那就大錯特錯了

We face the death of One Country - Two System.

我們面臨的是一國兩制之死

We face the failure of high degree autonomy.

我們面臨的是高度自治的失敗

But it's not the death of Hong Kong.

但這並非香港之死

Because Hong Kongers are still passionate,

因為香港人民仍然充滿熱忱

and have our courage, and will fight for democracy.

與勇氣，並且會繼續為了民主而奮鬥

One more question:

最後一個問題

Would you mind joining me in a round of "Do You Hear the People Sing?"

你願意和我高歌一曲 《你可聽見人民的歌聲？》嗎

Do you hear the people sing, Sing the song of angry men?

你可聽見人民的歌聲？ 唱著義憤者之歌

It's the music of the people who will not be slaves again!

這是不再甘願為奴的人民之歌！

When the beating of your heart Echoes the beating of the drums

當你的心呼應著戰鼓的聲響

There is a life about to start When tomorrow comes.

一個嶄新時代 即將在明日來臨

Yeah, I love your YouTube channel.

我很愛你的 YouTube 頻道

We got that on camera!

我們拍到他講這句話了！

Great! Thanks, Josh.

太好了！謝謝你，之鋒

Subscribe it! Subscribe! Yes! Yes!

- 訂閱此頻道！ - 訂閱！ 沒錯！沒錯！