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  • So I am a surgeon who studies creativity,

    我是一個研究創造力的外科醫師,

  • and I have never had a patient tell me,

    從來沒有一個病人對我說

  • "I really want you to be creative during surgery,"

    我希望您能在手術時來點創意。

  • and so I guess there's a little bit of irony to it.

    我想這有點諷刺意味。

  • I will say though that, after having done surgery a lot,

    但是我要說,在實施過無數次的外科手術之後,

  • it's similar to playing a musical instrument.

    我覺得手術在一定程度上跟彈奏一種樂器很相似。

  • And for me, this deep and enduring fascination with sound

    而對於我來說,正是這種深刻而持久的聲音魅力,

  • is what led me to both be a surgeon

    吸引著我在做一個手術醫師的同時,

  • and to study the science of sound, particularly music.

    學習研究聲音的科學,特別是音樂。

  • I'm going to talk over the next few minutes

    那麼,在下面的幾分鐘裡,我將試著跟你們談論

  • about my career

    關於我的職業

  • in terms of how I'm able to study music

    特別在於我究竟是如何研究音樂

  • and try to grapple with all these questions

    以及努力設法解決這些關於

  • of how the brain is able to be creative.

    大腦如何產生創意的疑問。

  • I've done most of this work at Johns Hopkins University,

    這些工作大部分是我在約翰·霍普金斯大學時候完成的,

  • and at the National Institute of Health where I was previously.

    也有一些是我之前在美國國家健康研究中心做的。

  • I'll go over some science experiments and cover three musical experiments.

    我會先回顧一下一些科學實驗

  • I will start off by playing a video for you.

    並且會涉及三個音樂實驗。

  • This video is of Keith Jarrett, who's a well-known jazz improviser

    我想從給你們展示一段影片開始。

  • and probably the most well-known, iconic example

    這是基斯·哈雷特的一段影片, 他是一位著名的爵士即興音樂創作人,

  • of someone who takes improvisation to a higher level.

    並且可能是最著名的,能將即興創作

  • And he'll improvise entire concerts off the top of his head,

    提升到一個相當高水平且最具代表性的人物。

  • and he'll never play it exactly the same way again,

    並且,他將用他的大腦

  • so as a form of intense creativity,

    創作出整場音樂會,

  • I think this is a great example.

    並且他將永遠不會再用一模一樣的方式表演。

  • And so why don't we go and click the video.

    因此, 以一種極高度的創作形式來說,

  • (Music)

    我想這是一個非常好的例子。

  • (Music ends)

    所以現在讓我們來看看這段影片吧。

  • It's really a remarkable thing that happens there.

    (音樂)

  • I've always as a listener, as a fan,

    剛剛發生的一切真是非凡而美妙。

  • I listen to that, and I'm astounded.

    一直以來 -- 我只是一個聆聽者,一個樂迷 --

  • I think -- how can this possibly be?

    我聽著,然後我被震懾住了。

  • How can the brain generate that much information,

    我想:這怎麼可能發生?

  • that much music, spontaneously?

    大腦怎麼能自行產生那麼多的信息,

  • And so I set out with this concept, scientifically,

    那麼多的音樂?

  • that artistic creativity, it's magical, but it's not magic,

    所以,我合乎科學地展開這個概念,

  • meaning that it's a product of the brain.

    具有藝術性的創作,它是神奇的,但它不是魔術。

  • There's not too many brain-dead people creating art.

    意思是說,它是大腦的產物。

  • With this notion that artistic creativity is in fact a neurologic product,

    沒有很多的腦死亡者在創作藝術。

  • I took this thesis that we could study it

    所以基與這種理念,那藝術性的創作

  • just like we study any other complex neurologic process,

    實際上是一種神經產物,

  • and there are subquestions that I put there.

    我帶來了這個議題,我們可以來研究一下,

  • Is it possible to study creativity scientifically?

    就像我們可以研究別的複雜的神經過程一樣。

  • And I think that's a good question.

    並且, 我覺得還有一些我放在那裡的小問題。

  • And I'll tell you that most scientific studies of music,

    真的有可能用科學的方法研究創造力嗎?

  • they're very dense,

    我認為這是個很好的問題。

  • and when you go through them,

    我要告訴你們,大部分針對音樂所做的科學研究,

  • it's very hard to recognize the music in it.

    它們非常難以理解。

  • In fact, they seem to be unmusical entirely

    當你閱讀它們時,很難從中辦識音樂。

  • and to miss the point of the music.

    實際上,它們整個看上去非常的不具音樂性。

  • This brings the second question:

    而且完全失去了音樂的特性。

  • Why should scientists study creativity?

    因此,這就帶來了第二個問題:

  • Maybe we're not the right people to do it.

    為什麼科學家們要研究創造力呢?

  • (Laughter)

    也許我們並不是研究音樂的正確人選。

  • Well it may be, but I will say that, from a scientific perspective,

    但也有可能我們是。

  • we talked a lot about innovation today,

    但是,我將要說,從一個科學的角度 ——

  • the science of innovation,

    當今我們談論很多關於創新的事情。

  • how much we understand about how the brain is able to innovate

    科學創新。

  • is in its infancy,

    我們對大腦如何可以創新的認知

  • and truly, we know very little about how we are able to be creative.

    還只是初級。

  • I think that we're going to see,

    是的,我們對我們如何可以創新知之甚少。

  • over the next 10, 20, 30 years,

    所以,我想,我們將看到

  • a real science of creativity that's burgeoning

    再過10年,20年,30年

  • and is going to flourish,

    一種關於創造力的真實科學將會迅速發展,並且繁榮興旺。

  • Because we now have new methods that can enable us

    因為現在有新的方法使得我們可以

  • to take this process like complex jazz improvisation,

    運用這些類似的過程,

  • and study it rigorously.

    像複雜的爵士即興表演,嚴僅地研究它

  • So it gets down to the brain.

    讓它一直深入到大腦。

  • All of us have this remarkable brain,

    這樣以後我們都可以擁有這個非凡的大腦,

  • which is poorly understood, to say the least.

    而現在我們對大腦只有差強人意的認識。

  • I think that neuroscientists have more questions than answers,

    我想,神經學家們

  • and I'm not going to give you answers today,

    的問題可能比答案還多。

  • just ask a lot of questions.

    而我自己,我今天將不會給你們很多的解答。

  • And that's what I do in my lab.

    我只問大量的問題。

  • I ask questions about what is the brain doing to enable us to do this.

    基本上,這正是我每天在實驗室作的事情。

  • This is the main method that I use. This is functional MRI.

    我會問很多問題,關於我們的大腦做了什麼才使得我們可以做這做那。

  • If you've been in an MRI scanner, it's very much the same,

    這就是我用的主要方法。 這種方法叫功能磁共振影像。

  • but this one is outfitted in a special way to not just take pictures of your brain,

    如果你有在磁共振影像掃描儀中待過,基本上是相同的東西,

  • but to also take pictures of active areas of the brain.

    但這一個被裝備成一種特別的方式

  • The way that's done is by the following:

    它不僅能為你的腦部拍照,

  • There's something called BOLD imaging,

    還為腦部的活動區域拍照。

  • which is Blood Oxygen Level Dependent imaging.

    下面就是這個方法的實現:

  • When you're in an fMRI scanner, you're in a big magnet

    這是一種叫血氧影像的東西,

  • that's aligning your molecules in certain areas.

    是血和氧氣水平的影像。

  • When an area of the brain is active, meaning a neural area is active,

    當你處在一個功能磁共振影像掃描儀中時,

  • it gets blood flow shunted to that area.

    你是在一個巨大的磁場中

  • That blood flow causes an increase in local blood to that area

    將你局部區域的分子排列起來。

  • with a deoxyhemoglobin change in concentration.

    當大腦的某塊區域在活動,也就是說一塊神經區域在活動的時候,

  • Deoxyhemoglobin can be detected by MRI,

    它使血流轉到那塊區域。

  • whereas oxyhemoglobin can't.

    血流造成

  • So through this method of inference --

    那塊區域的血量增加

  • and we're measuring blood flow, not neural activity --

    它改變脫氧血紅蛋白的濃度。

  • we say that an area of the brain that's getting more blood

    去氧合血紅蛋白可以被磁共振成像探測到,

  • was active during a particular task, and that's the crux of how fMRI works.

    而氧基红血球素不能被探測到。

  • And it's been used since the '90s to study really complex processes.

    所以通過這種推斷 ——

  • I'm going to review a study that I did, which was jazz in an fMRI scanner.

    並且我們在測量血流,而不是神經活動——

  • It was done with a colleague, Alan Braun, at the NIH.

    我們稱之為大腦某個血量正在增加的區域

  • This is a short video of how we did this project.

    在某特別的任務中是活動的。

  • (Video) Charles Limb: This is a plastic MIDI piano keyboard

    那就是功能磁共振成像的工作原理的關鍵之處。

  • that we use for the jazz experiments.

    而它從90年代以來

  • And it's a 35-key keyboard

    就被用來研究相當複雜的過程。

  • designed to fit both inside the scanner,

    現在我將來回顧一下我自己做的一個研究,

  • be magnetically safe,

    這個研究是關於功能磁共振掃描儀中的爵士樂。

  • have minimal interference that would contribute to any artifact,

    這是我和我的一個同事,亞倫·布勞恩,在美國國家健康研究中心時做的。

  • and have this cushion so that it can rest on the players' legs

    這是一個我們如何進行這個項目的短片。

  • while they're lying down in the scanner, playing on their back.

    (視頻)查爾斯·理姆:這是一個塑料的MIDI (音樂設備數字接口)鋼琴鍵盤

  • It works like this -- this doesn't actually produce any sound.

    我們用這個鍵盤來進行爵士樂實驗。

  • It sends out what's called a MIDI signal --

    它是一塊35鍵的鍵盤

  • or a Musical Instrument Digital Interface --

    這樣設計是爲了同時適合掃描儀內部,

  • through these wires into the box and then the computer,

    同時安全地帶著磁性,

  • which then trigger high-quality piano samples like this.

    將人為造成的干擾物質

  • (Music)

    減低到最少量

  • (Music)

    並且有這個墊子,這樣演奏者可以將它放在腿上

  • (Music ends)

    當他們躺在掃描儀里,用他們的背後表演時。

  • OK, so it works.

    它是這樣工作的 ——它並不真正產生任何聲音。

  • And so through this piano keyboard,

    它會輸出一個 MIDI 的信號--

  • we have the means to take a musical process and study it.

    或者叫音樂設備數字接口--

  • So what do you do now that you have this cool piano keyboard?

    信號通過這些電線中進入這個盒子然後進入電腦,

  • You can't just say, "It's great we have a keyboard."

    然後發出一個高品質的鋼琴聲。

  • We have to come up with a scientific experiment.

    (音樂)

  • The experiment really rests on the following:

    (音樂)

  • What happens in the brain during something that's memorized and over-learned,

    查爾斯·理姆:好,所以它是可用的。

  • and what happens in the brain during something

    所以通過這個鋼琴鍵盤,

  • that is spontaneously generated, or improvised,

    我們現在有辦法獲取一段音樂的過程並來研究它。

  • in a way that's matched motorically

    那現在你有了這個很酷的鋼琴鍵盤了,你要做點什麼呢?

  • and in terms of lower-level sensory motor features?

    你不能光說——“我們弄到這麼各好鍵盤真是太棒了。”

  • I have here what we call the paradigms.

    實際上,我們必須想出一個科學實驗。

  • There's a scale paradigm, which is playing a scale up and down, memorized,

    這個實驗依靠以下這些。

  • then there's improvising on a scale,

    當我們依循記憶運用一些熟悉的事物時,大腦會如何活動?

  • quarter notes, metronome, right hand --

    當自發的產生或即興創作出一些東西,

  • scientifically very safe,

    我們的大腦又發生了什麼

  • but musically really boring.

    在某種程度上那是運動神經

  • Then there's the bottom one, which is called the jazz paradigm.

    和低階感官運動特徵符合的情形?

  • So we brought professional jazz players to the NIH,

    所以,我這裡提供一個範例。

  • and we had them memorize this piece of music on the lower-left,

    有一個音階範例,就是彈奏上下的音調,並記起來。

  • which is what you heard me playing --

    然後是這段音階的即興演奏--

  • and we had them improvise to the same chord changes.

    4分音符,節拍器,右手--

  • And if you can hit that lower-right sound icon,

    從科學觀點是很安全的,

  • that's an example of what was recorded in the scanner.

    但是從音樂角度來說確非常無聊。

  • (Music)

    最後還有一個,稱為爵士樂的範例。

  • (Music ends)

    然後我們將專業的爵士樂手帶到美國國家健康研究中心,

  • In the end, it's not the most natural environment,

    接著讓他們記住像左下方的音樂,

  • but they're able to play real music.

    就是你們剛剛聽我彈的這段,

  • And I've listened to that solo 200 times,

    然後我們讓他們即興創作同一段相同的和弦。

  • and I still like it.

    如果你點擊右下方的聲音圖標,

  • And the musicians were comfortable in the end.

    這裡有一個掃描儀記錄的例子。

  • We first measured the number of notes.

    (音樂)

  • Were they playing more notes when they were improvising?

    總而言之,這並不是最自然的環境,

  • That was not what was going on.

    但是他們能夠演奏真實的音樂。

  • And then we looked at the brain activity.

    雖然我已經把那段獨奏聽過200次了,

  • I will try to condense this for you.

    我仍然喜歡它。

  • These are contrast maps that are showing subtractions between what changes

    而音樂家們,他們最後也感覺很好。

  • when you're improvising vs. when you're doing something memorized.

    我們先測量這些音符的數量。

  • In red is an area that's active in the prefrontal cortex,

    他們在即興表演時真的彈奏了更多的音符嗎?

  • the frontal lobe of the brain,

    並不是這樣的。

  • and in blue is this area that was deactivated.

    然後我們看了腦部的活動。

  • So we had this focal area called the medial prefrontal cortex

    我試著把這部分壓縮,來告訴你們。

  • that went way up in activity.

    這是對比圖,它顯示出

  • We had this broad patch of area called the lateral prefrontal cortex

    當你在即興創作

  • that went way down in activity,

    和你正在做記憶中的事情時的差值。

  • I'll summarize that for you.

    紅色部分是前額葉皮質活動的區域,

  • These are multifunctional areas of the brain,

    是大腦的前額葉。

  • these are not the jazz areas of the brain.

    而藍色,是不活動的區域。

  • They do a whole host of things

    我們管這個重點區域叫做內側前額葉皮質

  • that have to do with self-reflection,

    活動很頻繁。

  • introspection, working memory etc.

    這塊寬的區域稱為外側前額葉皮層

  • Really, consciousness is seated in the frontal lobe.

    活動較遲緩, 我們來做個總結。

  • But we have this combination

    這些是腦部的多功能區域。

  • of an area that's thought to be involved in self-monitoring, turning off,

    就像我說的,這不是大腦裡爵士樂的區域。

  • and this area that's thought to be autobiographical,

    他們負責主要的事情

  • or self-expressive, turning on.

    這些事情跟自我反省,

  • We think, at least in this preliminary --

    內省及工作記憶相關。

  • it's one study; it's probably wrong, but it's one study --

    真實的意識存在前額葉.

  • (Laughter)

    但是我們認為有一個相關的區域

  • we think that at least a reasonable hypothesis

    自我控制的部分是關閉的,

  • is that, to be creative,

    而這塊區域被認為是自動傳遞(導)的,

  • you should have this weird dissociation in your frontal lobe.

    或者是自我表現的區域開啟了。

  • One area turns on, and a big area shuts off,

    我們認為,至少初步認為

  • so that you're not inhibited, you're willing to make mistakes,

    這是一項研究,它可能是錯誤的。

  • so that you're not constantly shutting down

    但它仍然是一項研究。

  • all of these new generative impulses.

    我們認為,至少一個合理的假說

  • Now a lot of people know that music is not always a solo activity --

    是,要有創造性,

  • sometimes it's done communicatively.

    你的前額葉不得不有這樣的分離。

  • The next question was:

    一塊區域工作,而一大塊區域關閉,

  • What happens when musicians are trading back and forth,

    從而使你不被約束,願意去犯錯誤,

  • something called "trading fours,"

    因此你不是一直處於

  • which is something they do normally in a jazz experiment.

    關閉所有這些新的能夠製造東西的衝動狀態。

  • So this is a 12-bar blues,

    現在,很多人知道音樂並不總是一個獨立的活動——

  • and I've broken it down into four-bar groups,

    有時它是一個溝通性的活動。

  • so you would know how you would trade.

    所以下一個問題是:

  • We brought a musician into the scanner, same way,

    當音樂家們前後替換時,

  • had them memorize this melody

    被稱為4小節交換,

  • then had another musician out in the control room

    也就是他們通常在爵士樂實驗中做的?

  • trading back and forth interactively.

    這是一段12小節的布魯斯音樂。

  • So this is a musician, Mike Pope,

    我將它按四小節分組,

  • one of the world's best bassists and a fantastic piano player.

    所以你知道你是怎樣交換的。

  • (Music)

    現在,我們將一位音樂家置入掃描儀--用同樣的方式--

  • He's now playing the piece that we just saw

    讓他們記憶這段旋律

  • a little better than I wrote it.

    然後讓另外一名音樂家在外面的控制室

  • (Video) CL: Mike, come on in.

    前後互動相互彈奏。

  • Mike Pope: May the force be with you.

    這是一位音樂家,麥克·波普,

  • Nurse: Nothing in your pockets, Mike?

    世界上最好的貝司手之一,也是一個了不起的鋼琴家。

  • MP: No. Nothing's in my pockets.

    他現在正在彈這段

  • CL: You have to have the right attitude to agree to do it.

    我們剛剛看到的

  • (Laughter)

    只是他彈的比我寫得好一點。

  • It's kind of fun, actually.

    (視頻)查爾斯·理姆:

  • (Music)

    護士:你口袋里沒東西了,對吧 麥克?

  • Now we're playing back and forth.

    麥克·波普:是的,我口袋裡什麼也沒有了。 (護士: 好。)

  • He's in there. You can see his legs up there.

    查爾斯·理姆:你必須用正確的態度接受它。

  • (Music)

    (笑聲)

  • And then I'm in the control room here, playing back and forth.

    它其實挺有趣的。

  • (Music)

    現在我們開始交互彈奏。

  • (Music ends)

    他在裏面了。你可以看到他的腿在那裡。

  • (Video) Mike Pope: This is a pretty good representation

    而我在控制室裡,交互彈奏。

  • of what it's like.

    (音樂)

  • And it's good that it's not too quick.

    (視頻)麥克·波普: 這剛好可以好好的表現

  • The fact that we do it over and over again

    它的形式。

  • lets you acclimate to your surroundings.

    而且它很好因為它不是很快。

  • So the hardest thing for me was the kinesthetic thing,

    事實上,我們一遍一遍地重複它,

  • looking at my hands through two mirrors,

    讓你習慣你周圍的環境。

  • laying on my back,

    所以對我來說最難的是運動知覺的部份,

  • and not able to move at all except for my hand.

    藉由兩面鏡子

  • That was challenging.

    看我的雙手,

  • But again --

    躺著

  • there were moments, for sure --

    除了手,別的都不能動。

  • (Laughter)

    這很有挑戰性。

  • there were moments of real, honest-to-God musical interplay, for sure.

    但是再一次,

  • CL: At this point, I'll take a few moments.

    有一瞬間,非常確定的,

  • So what you're seeing here --

    有一瞬間,

  • and I'm doing a cardinal sin in science,

    真的,真誠的音樂相互作用,是肯定的。

  • which is to show you preliminary data.

    查爾斯·理姆:在這一點上,我要耽誤一點時間。

  • This is one subject's data.

    你們現在能看到什麽--

  • This is, in fact, Mike Pope's data.

    而我現在要犯一種科學的禁忌,

  • So what am I showing you here?

    就是向你們展示一些初步的數據。

  • When he was trading fours with me, improvising vs. memorized,

    這是一個主體的數據。

  • his language areas lit up, his Broca's area,

    這是,實際上,麥克波普的數據。

  • in the inferior frontal gyrus on the left.

    所以我要讓你們看什麽呢?

  • He had it also homologous on the right.

    當他在和我配合4小節的彈奏時,是靠即興而非記憶

  • This is an area thought to be involved in expressive communication.

    他的語言區域亮了起來,也就是他的布洛卡區,

  • This whole notion that music is a language --

    也就是左邊的額下回。

  • maybe there's a neurologic basis to it after all,

    他實際上在右邊也有一塊相應的區域。

  • and we can see it when two musicians are having a musical conversation.

    這是一塊被認為是參與表達溝通的區域。

  • So we've done this on eight subjects now,

    這所有的關於音樂是一種語言的觀念,

  • and we're getting all the data together,

    嗯,事實上也許歸根結底是有神經學基礎的,

  • hopefully we'll have something to say about it meaningfully.

    而當兩個音樂家在進行音樂對話的時候,我們可以看到它。