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  • >> Dom Goucher: Hello, everyone, and welcome to this week's edition of PreneurCast, with

  • me, Dom Goucher, and him, Pete Williams. >> Pete Williams: I'm back!

  • >> Dom: He is indeed, he is indeed. Hello, sir. How was this week for you?

  • >> Pete: It's been fantastic. A lot of really cool stuff going on. Some new things, hopefully

  • people who are part of the Preneur Community will see in their inbox over the coming weeks,

  • which is super exciting. All really good stuff happening.

  • >> Dom: Cool. This week, folks, we've got another great conversation that Pete's had

  • with an author. This week it's Josh Kaufman, the author of The Personal MBA, and now his

  • new book is called The First 20 Hours, which is a book about rapid skill acquisition.

  • And before we get into that conversation - which I as always recommend that you get out your

  • pencil and paper if you can, or be willing to listen to it again when you get back from

  • walking the dog - what's been going on with you this week? In fact, the last couple of

  • weeks, Pete, because you went AWOL. Actually, as I said in last week's show that

  • I did on my own, you've been spending time focusing on single projects, as we always

  • recommend, serial versus parallel, so what have you been up to?

  • >> Pete: Well, definitely been doing a lot of writing for the blog. If you don't regularly

  • check out PreneurMarketing.com, definitely worth checking out, so that's been a lot of

  • fun. There's a series on there which was posted earlier this week around e-mail marketing

  • tools. Now, a lot of people listening probably use

  • AWeber or MailChimp to manage their business. We did a whole really intensive, I'd say,

  • audit of all the different platforms available for our businesses (not just Preneur Marketing,

  • but also the e-com businesses and telco, and everything else we have our fingers in).

  • We came to the conclusion that for the information marketing-style projects, Preneur Marketing-type

  • stuff, to go with a self-hosted e-mail service to increase deliverability and control. So

  • basically wrote this whole series of posts between myself and some of the staff writers

  • to help everyone go through that jungle of working out what are the different e-mail

  • services available. Why you would go hosted versus the self-hosted

  • options. Like the cloud-based AWebers, MailChimps, Infusionsofts of the world, versus something

  • you can host and manage yourself. So yeah, it's a pretty in-depth series and had some

  • really good responses from the e-mail. And comments are starting to flow into those

  • posts as well, so that's been a lot of fun, going through that whole process and writing

  • that. What other projects are we working on? Some secret stuff I can't really talk about.

  • A couple of the telco various businesses, we're going through some changes there, which

  • is exciting. That'll hopefully be announced over the next

  • few months. Some new websites coming alive for those businesses as well, which is pretty

  • intense, and just plowing down, working in the trenches a little bit the last week or

  • so on a few projects. It is always fun when you get to do a deep dive in something for

  • a while. >> Dom: Yeah, and there's something that we're

  • going to be talking about real soon that - I'll just say look forward to next week's show,

  • where we will be talking about a big project. >> Pete: Ah, a new piece of software.

  • >> Dom: That you've been just getting out the door, haven't you?

  • >> Pete: A new piece of software, so that'll be a lot of fun. We're working on that. It

  • hasn't been a lot of my time the last week or so, because that's been using some outsourcers

  • and some developers to put together a new app. But we'll talk about all that in next

  • week's show, which I'm super excited to release and talk about.

  • >> Dom: Cool. Now, just reflect back on the e-mail piece. Pete, as you say, it is incredibly

  • in-depth, really well-researched, behind-the-scenes look at your thinking and the reasoning behind

  • your decisions. We have such a wide range of listeners on the show.

  • I think - the first thing I would say is, don't skip over that, the knowledge about

  • e-mail or what we call autoresponder systems. Because having regular contact with your customers

  • is a big thing. And these e-mail autoresponder systems, whatever level that you get involved

  • with it, is an incredibly powerful tool. In fact, I think, Pete, we should maybe talk

  • about the principles of it in another show, or maybe it's an opportunity for you to put

  • another post on the blog, just at a more introductory level, to just explain to people why they

  • should care. >> Pete: Well, I think we should absolutely

  • put it into a future edition of the show. Because from our perspective, we use e-mail

  • in a lot of different areas of the business. But one of the real prime, profit-generating

  • areas is that transactions-per-period as part of the 7 Levers framework, which I'm sure

  • is what you were directing this conversation towards.

  • In our e-commerce, in the Simply Headsets business, one of the e-commerce products we

  • have, we have an autoresponder sequence that is all about getting clients to come back

  • and buy from us again. In the very first blog post in the series that we're talking about

  • here, I took some snippets out of some replies that we got from people.

  • And those snippets were taken from I think a one-day period or a two-day period of responses

  • to the autoresponder sequence from people really engaged with the actual series, which

  • is in turn causing an increase in transactions per period, which is the goal of the Levers

  • that we talk about in the 7 Levers of Business. >> Dom: Absolutely. That's exactly where I

  • was going. So yes, I really do think we should pick up on that in another show.

  • >> Pete: Sounds like a good plan. >> Dom: But in the meantime, folks, if you're

  • already using e-mail autoresponder systems, then definitely go take a look at that series

  • of articles. It's a great piece of work that Pete's put together over at PreneurMarketing.com.

  • So that said, shall we hop into your conversation with Josh?

  • >> Pete: Absolutely. Let's dive in and learn how to gain skills much faster.

  • [Pete's conversation with Josh Kaufman starts] >> Pete: Josh, really appreciate you taking

  • the time to join us today, mate. >> Josh Kaufman: Thanks, great to be here.

  • >> Pete: It's going to be a lot of fun. So The First 20 Hours, love it. And the thing

  • that, I guess not surprised me but I found really interesting, is you talk about rapid

  • skill acquisition and deliberately differentiate that from mastery, which Robert Greene talks

  • about, who we've had on a show, and Tim Ferriss, to a certain extent, who we had on a show

  • as well. Do you want to explain that differentiation, set the scene a little bit?

  • >> Josh: Yeah, so a lot of the books and resources and courses, and everything about skill acquisition

  • over the past decade or so, has all been really focused on the long game, right? What does

  • it take to become the best in the world at something?

  • That whole conversation really started back in 2007, 2008 when Malcolm Gladwell published

  • Outliers, which very publicly broadcast some research by Dr. K. Anders Ericsson of Florida

  • State University about that topic. What does it take to become the best at something?

  • So Dr. Ericsson was researching things like if you want to step onto a golf course and

  • be able to compete with Tiger Woods, what does that process look like? How much are

  • you going to need to practice to get there? And his answer was this whole idea of the

  • 10,000-hour rule. It takes about 10,000 hours to "master" a

  • new skill, or become one of the best in the world at whatever it is that you're doing.

  • And so the skill acquisition and rapid learning books that have come out over the past decade

  • or so have all really been focused on that mastery aspect or mastery take on the subject.

  • But I was interested in quite the opposite. What if you're not so concerned about being

  • the best in the world at something? What if you want to learn something to get a particular

  • result? So maybe you're learning something for your business, maybe you're curious about

  • a personal interest or a hobby. You're interested, but you have absolutely no idea where to start.

  • You don't know where to begin. It's frustrating. It's intimidating. What

  • does it take to learn something new? So not the really long game of skill acquisition.

  • What does the first zero-to-20 hours of practice look like, and how can we learn as much as

  • we possibly can and improve as much as we're capable of in the early hours of skill acquisition?

  • >> Pete: I think as part of it, too - because those first 20 hours can be quite hard for

  • a lot of people just to stick through it, keep their bum in their seat, so to speak,

  • and get through it as well, so having a good plan and process to follow is very helpful,

  • too, I would imagine. >> Josh: Yeah, it's a double challenge. So

  • getting started, going from being interested to even putting in your first 10 minutes of

  • practice, that's a hurdle in and of itself, right? So what does it take to get started

  • practicing something? Then once you start practicing, those early hours are always frustrating,

  • for everybody. Because you're horrible and you know you're

  • horrible. And so what does it take to get started, and what does it take to make sure

  • when you get started you put in enough practice to see some results from your practice? The

  • method I talk about in The First 20 Hours is designed to do just that.

  • It's designed to help you identify something you want to learn, figure out a smart strategy

  • to get started, and then make sure you practice long enough to see results. In my experience,

  • you can go from knowing absolutely nothing about what you're doing, to being really demonstrably

  • good in about 20 hours. >> Pete: Awesome. You mentioned a word there

  • quite a bit, which I really want to delve into in the conversation, and the word is

  • "practice." But before we go there, could you give a little bit of a cheat sheet for

  • people who haven't read the book yet and inspire them to go out and buy it, in terms of some

  • of these steps that you're talking about? >> Josh: Yeah. So the general method of learning

  • anything - and when I say anything, I really do mean anything. It could be anything from

  • a skill that you would use at work to something that you just want to do for the fun of it.

  • So things that require physical movement, called motor skills, or cognitive skills,

  • anything that you can practice in a way that can improve, the method applies to.

  • And the core method for rapid skill acquisition is very straightforward. The first thing is

  • just decide what you want to do. I call this setting a target performance level. Specify

  • exactly what it is you want to be able to do when you're done. The common mistake at

  • this stage is saying, I want to learn golf, or I want to learn how to speak French.

  • And the problem with those kinds of constructions is they're way too general. They're way too

  • broad to be very useful. So Step One is decide what exactly do you want to be able to do,

  • in as specific terms as possible, before you get started. Because the more you specify

  • it, the easier it is to figure out ways to get there as quickly as possible. So step

  • one is decide what you want. >> Pete: I think you mentioned the book from

  • memory, the quote that "a well-defined problem is half-solved." I'm sure I just completely

  • messed that quote up, but that's the essence of it anyway.

  • >> Josh: Absolutely. I think that was a Peter Drucker quote. And there's another quote that

  • I put in there that was by Voltaire, which is, "No problem can withstand the assault

  • of sustained thinking." So what we're really trying to do in this process is be very clear

  • what it is exactly we want to be able to do. And then formulate a smart strategy to get

  • started and practice that thing so you can get there as quickly as possible. After you

  • decide what you want, the next step is to deconstruct whatever it is that you are practicing

  • or want to learn into smaller parts. Most skills are just bundles of much smaller

  • subskills. A good illustration of this is, imagine a game like golf. "Be good at golf"

  • is not very helpful because it's not very specific. But if you think about it, all golf

  • is, is really just a collection of much smaller skills that you use in combination.

  • So, "hitting a ball off the tee with a driver" is very different from "putting the ball in

  • the hole on the green with a putter," is very different from "chipping out of the bunker."

  • There's a lot of things that you do in the context of playing golf, but in isolation

  • they're all very different. So Step Two is break whatever it is that you're doing down

  • into those small parts, because those are the things you can practice.

  • >> Pete: Let me ask you this question. I'm going to stop you there, because if we equate

  • this to business - and I think I say this so often talking to people in our community

  • who listen to this show and just people in general who are trying to be "entrepreneurs"

  • and start a business - is that they want to become a businessperson and "master" this

  • art of business. But they have a problem seeing the forest

  • from the trees and breaking it down to realizing that the business comes down to things like

  • traffic generation, conversion, repeat business, maximizing your profits, and the skill required

  • to do each of those five, six, or seven key elements of business.

  • They have trouble seeing that forest from the trees. So is there any real easy way to

  • have that deconstruction happen and work at - in the game of golf it's a bit more clear

  • that you've got tee off and you've got putting, and all that stuff. Is there a skill around

  • that? >> Josh: There is. Actually, this is a subject

  • near and dear to my heart because my first book, The Personal MBA: Master the Art of

  • Business, does that. Basically, you can treat business as a skill that can be developed.

  • It's something that you can practice, it's something that you can learn about, it's something

  • that you can intentionally choose to get better at.

  • And so the way that I first like to deconstruct business is, figure out exactly what every

  • single business does on a fundamental level. So instead of imagining a business as something

  • that you do that brings money into your bank account, let's get very specific about that.

  • Based on my research, every single business does five things, in roughly the same order.

  • First off, every business creates something of value. Value creation. Every single business

  • goes out into the world and finds people that are interested in whatever it is that they've

  • created. That's marketing. Every single business takes the people who

  • are interested in whatever it is that's being offered and converts them into a paying customer.

  • That's sales. Every single business, after they collect somebody's money, has to deliver

  • what they've promised or they're running a scam, they're not running a business.

  • That's value delivery and customer service. And the fifth part is looking at all of this

  • activity that's going on and, as you're creating value, marketing, selling, and delivering

  • value, you are spending money in terms of your staff and resources and all that stuff.

  • You're collecting money in the form of sales. And so finance is basically just looking at

  • all the money that's coming in and all the money that's going out and answering two very

  • important questions. Is more money flowing in than flowing out? If not, you're in trouble.

  • And, very importantly, is it enough? Is it enough to make all of this effort that you're

  • putting forth worthwhile? Because if it's not, you're probably going

  • to close the business and do something else. So if you break business, which is this really

  • big topic, into those five very specific parts - value creation, marketing, sales, value

  • delivery, finance - all of the sudden it becomes way easier to look at a business or to analyze

  • a business idea and have a very clear picture about how it's going to work. Does that make

  • sense? >> Pete: That's perfect. Because that's the

  • thing - you can look at each one of those five areas and work out where you're deficient,

  • and then find the skills required to enhance the finance side of your business or the marketing

  • side of your business. That's a great analysis of that. With the deconstructed business,

  • what's the third step? >> Josh: The third step in picking up a new

  • skill as quickly as possible is to research just enough to figure out what the most important

  • subskills are that you should practice first, but not so much that the research becomes

  • a form of procrastination in and of itself. >> Pete: That's a tightrope, yeah.

  • >> Josh: This is a big problem I had before I did this research. For example, in the process

  • of researching The First 20 Hours, I was field-testing this approach. I wanted to make sure that

  • it works before I teach it to people. And so, I was learning how to program.

  • I was writing web applications in Ruby, which is something I've wanted to do for a long

  • time, just hadn't learned it yet. And so my inclination there is, okay, I'm going to learn

  • how to program, so I'm going to get 10 books about programming, and I'm going to buy these

  • three courses. I'm going to read all the books and go through

  • all the courses, and then I'm going to sit down and write my first program. When really,

  • that was completely, completely misguided, because reading books doesn't help you learn

  • how to program, right? It can help you do that more efficiently if

  • you know what you're doing. But in general, it's much easier to just identify the most

  • important subskills and jump straight into it, and then leave the learning and the research

  • for times where you have a specific problem practicing whatever it is that you're trying

  • to do. You're trying to accomplish something specific,

  • and you use the reference material to help you solve the problem. So you want to research

  • just enough so you can jump in and start practicing whatever it is that you want to do as quickly

  • as you can. >> Pete: I think that's a big problem with

  • the education system in a lot of courses and things like that. It's more about this learning

  • stuff and this understanding acquisition as opposed to skill acquisition.

  • >> Josh: Exactly. Most modern academic contexts place high value on memorization and regurgitation,

  • and that's pretty much it. When really, when you look at all of the skill acquisition research

  • that's been done over the past six or seven decades, it's very, very clear that the only

  • thing that really helps you improve - and if we define skill as something where performance

  • in the real world matters, it's not just a memorization thing.

  • You're training yourself to perform something specific in a very real capacity. Memorization

  • doesn't help you. The only thing that helps you is practicing the thing that you want

  • to be able to do in the context in which you want to be able to do it.

  • For example, if you want to learn how to draw or want to learn how to play the guitar, you

  • can read 50 books about learning to draw, and if you never pick up a pencil and start

  • sketching something, you will not improve one bit.

  • >> Pete: Not going to help at all. You need to build those - is it neuron connectors?

  • By doing the thing over and over again? >> Josh: Exactly. So the only thing that really

  • helps you perform is practicing, which helps your brain physically change itself to complete

  • the neural connections that allow you to move your body or call up certain memories or call

  • up certain things that helps you perform. Let's say you want to learn a new language,

  • like Spanish or French. You could read a grammar book on that, and

  • you could read 100 grammar books. But when it comes to speaking with a person in the

  • language and understanding what they're saying, you're not going to get there until you practice

  • that thing. So just skip the grammar books. Start practicing and trying to understand,

  • speaking with a real person. You'll get there way quicker.

  • >> Pete: Cool. And the final part of the four steps of skill acquisition?

  • >> Josh: There's two more. >> Pete: Ah, I can't count.

  • >> Josh: No worries. So Number Four is remove barriers to practice. So anything that distracts

  • you or gets in the way of sitting down and practicing the skill that you want to learn

  • in context is something that you need to ruthlessly remove. And those barriers can look like all

  • sorts of different things. So turn off the TV. Turn off your cell phone. Close the door.

  • Block your internet connection if you can. Anything that when you're in the process of

  • practicing something and the going gets rough, we have an incredible tendency to look for

  • distractions. So eliminate them from your environment. Remove them so when you're sitting

  • down to practice, it's way easier to stay focused on what it is you're trying to do.

  • >> Pete: We've spoken about that a lot on past episodes of PreneurCast here, and it's

  • what I term "positive constraints." I'm putting positive constraints in place to basically

  • force yourself to do what you want to do. So there's whole ways you can do that. You

  • can use, as you said before, internet blocking things.

  • Something I use every morning to turn off Facebook and Twitter and News.com, to make

  • sure I don't have that habit of a quick Alt-Tab to see what people are having for breakfast

  • on Instagram. So those positive constraints make a huge difference to your ability to

  • take action. >> Josh: Yeah. And this is where the method

  • starts incorporating a lot of what has been found in behavioral psychology for the past

  • couple decades. How can we make it easy for ourselves to do the thing that we want to

  • be doing instead of the thing that our brain wants to do because it's easier than what

  • we're focusing on right now? A lot of that is eliminating distractions.

  • The other thing that you can do is just change the structure of the environment around you

  • to make it as easy as possible, or to allow you to expend as little energy as possible,

  • to start practicing. Let's say you wanted to play the guitar. If the guitar is in its

  • case in a closet on the other side of your house, you're never going to pick it up.

  • So a very easy thing to do is instead of relying on yourself to remember that the guitar is

  • there and to expend the energy going to get it every time to practice, the fix is really

  • simple. Get it out of the closet, get it out of the case, put a stand right by the couch

  • or chair that you sit on all the time. Just put the guitar there and keep it there.

  • And if all it takes to start practicing is reaching over two feet, picking it up, and

  • starting to play, you're going to spend way more time practicing than if it were anywhere

  • else. >> Pete: Absolutely. Reduce and remove as

  • much friction as possible. >> Josh: Absolutely.

  • >> Pete: Love it. >> Josh: So Step Four, remove barriers to

  • practice. And the fifth is very simple. Pre-commit to at least 20 hours of practice before you

  • start practicing. That pre-commitment is very important for two primary reasons. The first

  • is, it's a very valuable check on your priorities and values at the moment. We all carry around

  • a lot of things that, for whatever reason, we feel like we should be learning.

  • But when you check how much capacity and how much energy and how much attention you have,

  • and you ask yourself the question, am I willing to really rearrange my schedule to do half

  • an hour or 45 minutes of practice a day for the next month? Am I really serious about

  • sitting down and learning this thing? A lot of times, you find that you're not.

  • So it's an interest, but it may not be valuable enough to spend your time and attention on

  • right now. If you're not willing to pre-commit to putting at least 20 hours of practice into

  • something, it's a really good signal that it's not very important to you right now to

  • begin with. Which is great! Just drop it temporarily and

  • go do something else. That can save you a tremendous amount of time. The pre-commitment

  • serves another purpose, which is, the first few hours of practice, you're going to be

  • horrible. It's just a fact of life, right? >> Pete: Absolutely.

  • >> Josh: And so what research says is that those early hours of practice are incredibly

  • productive. You improve dramatically, even in the first one to three hours of practice.

  • Going from nothing to being reasonably good doesn't take very much time at all.

  • The big barrier is, since those early hours of practice are so frustrating, you need to

  • make sure that you're willing to push through that early frustration long enough to see

  • results. And so the whole idea of The First 20 Hours is, 20 hours is about the threshold

  • where, no matter what you're practicing, if you put at least 20 hours into the skill,

  • you are going to see dramatic improvements in your performance, whatever the skill happens

  • to be. So 20 hours is long enough to see dramatic

  • results, but it's short enough that 20 hours doesn't feel too big or too scary to pre-commit

  • in the first place. If you say, I'm going to do this for at least 20 hours, and if I

  • suck, I'm going to suck for at least 20 hours, and that's okay - just making that pre-commitment

  • is a very powerful way to change your behavior. >> Pete: That willingness to say, "I'm going

  • to suck for 20 hours" gives you that freedom to fail as well, which I think is so important

  • for so many people. Whether it's learning to play golf or copywriting, or whatever skill

  • it might be - touch-typing, as you talk about in the book.

  • They get scared they have to be awesome within the first session because that's what they

  • see on the movies and on all these Forbes articles. And there's a big problem with that,

  • and we've spoken about that before, and I don't want to get too much off topic.

  • But you can't compare yourself to what's in the media, because they want to highlight

  • the good stories, not the average joes, and the average joes are what we all are most

  • times, and average joes can be successful. It's just not the Zuckerberg effect-type scenario.

  • >> Josh: I think there's an incredible freedom of really fully understanding that it is perfectly

  • normal, and to be expected, that you're going to be horrible, and there's nothing wrong

  • with that. I think the other thing is (and this is partly an outgrowth of parts of our

  • educational system as well), there's been a persistent myth for several decades now

  • on you need to be good or talented at something to get any value from it.

  • So a lot of people, what they'll do is - let's say they want to pick up the guitar or learn

  • how to paint or learn how to draw. They spend a couple hours doing it, and it's very clear

  • that they don't have any skill in doing that. So the drawing stinks or the guitar's out

  • of tune, or you can't play anything to save your life.

  • There's an incredible tendency for people to, when faced with that early frustration,

  • to say, I'm not talented at that, I'm not good at that, I should spend time doing something

  • I am talented or good at. When really, all that their lack of ability is signaling is

  • they haven't spent very much time doing it yet.

  • What's nice is, all of the research basically says that there is - in this early stage of

  • skill acquisition, there is no such thing as natural talent. So the first time Tiger

  • Woods picked up a golf club, he was as horrible as you were, right? He's just practiced for

  • much longer. There's a lot of value in understanding that

  • those first couple hours are going to be frustrating, and that's okay. If you spend your time practicing

  • in a smart way, it's not going to be very long before you're going to be very good at

  • it. >> Pete: I think one of the things that you

  • write about in the book is that the major barrier, which is what we're talking about

  • right now, is not a physical attribute or even intelligence to a certain degree. It's

  • that emotional skill of pushing through and giving yourself that freedom.

  • It's an interesting concept for a lot of people to think that ability to gain a new skill

  • is not [dependent on] your intelligence level or your physical prowess. It's literally your

  • emotional intelligence, almost. >> Josh: Yeah, that was the biggest surprise

  • for me in this process. When I started doing the research behind skill acquisition and

  • how to do it quickly, I really expected digging into the research literature and figuring

  • out what works and what doesn't, I expected it to be an intellectual, cognitive, tips-tricks-and-hacks

  • process. Here's a whole bunch of things that you can

  • do to suck in a lot of information and stick it in your long-term memory and get very good

  • by studying correctly. And what I found, both in the research and in my own experience,

  • testing these sorts of methods, is we're all smart enough, way smart enough, to do this.

  • We're all strong enough. The major barriers are not physical. They're not intellectual.

  • They're emotional. It's getting yourself to the point of committing and overcoming that

  • ooh-this-looks-way-too-big-I'm-not-sure-if-I-can-do-this type of feeling. So the early doubt or the

  • early intimidation, and then overcoming that early frustration of getting started and not

  • being good and wrestling with that cognitive dissonance that comes from, I'm trying to

  • do something that I'm very clearly not good at.

  • And how to push through that so you get to the point where you've spent enough time to

  • build very real skills so you can accomplish something that has deep meaning in your life,

  • whatever that might be. >> Pete: Absolutely. So you're listening to

  • PreneurCast here with Josh Kaufman, author of The First 20 Hours. Now, Josh, let me ask

  • you, a bit of a slight change of direction about this word you keep using so much, which

  • is "practice." I'd love to talk about how to deconstruct practice in a way.

  • Because you talk in the book about doing practice on a daily basis as opposed to immersion,

  • which is something that we've spoken a lot about, which I'm a believer in. I'd love to

  • chat about your take from your experiences and your research around why you think that

  • almost an hour a day of practice is more effective than 20 hours over three days.

  • >> Josh: Right, right. So the whole idea of the importance of practice - and this was

  • one of the really great things that Dr. Ericsson coined in his research on expert-level performance,

  • this whole idea of deliberate practice - it's not just dabbling around with something and

  • hoping that you improve. It's not fiddling around or just ambiently

  • soaking up things. Deliberate practice is very intentionally and very systematically

  • sitting down to practice with an eye towards something specific you want to improve. It's

  • very focused. And the connotation of deliberate - you're really, really paying attention when

  • you practice. So deliberate practice really is the core

  • of skill acquisition. The more deliberate practice you put in, in general, the better

  • you'll get. The rate of your improvement will be extremely high at the beginning, and then

  • over time as you improve, that rate of learning will very naturally taper off.

  • That's the whole idea of the learning curve. And so, deliberate practice is the core of

  • skill acquisition, all types of skill acquisition. There are a number of different ways that

  • you can go about doing that, and in general probably the most widely known method of what

  • would qualify as rapid skill acquisition is the idea of immersion.

  • You want to learn a language, let's say you want to learn Japanese - sell your house and

  • sell all your stuff and pack your bag, hop a flight, and live in Japan for three months,

  • and lo and behold, by the end of that experience you will know a lot of Japanese.

  • >> Pete: That's a very strong positive constraint as well.

  • >> Josh: Yeah, exactly. So in general, immersion works. It works extremely well. The challenge

  • is that very few of us are in a position where we can drop absolutely everything and go live

  • in Japan for three months. If you have an immersion opportunity, whatever that looks

  • like, and you're at a point in your life where you can really follow that opportunity, fantastic!

  • Go do it. You will learn a ton. The challenge comes when people think that

  • that's the only way that you can learn something quickly. And so they wait, sometimes their

  • entire lives, for an immersion opportunity that doesn't come. When really, if you rearrange

  • your schedule to put in just a little bit of time every day to practice this thing that

  • is meaningful to you, you can improve a lot in a very short period of time.

  • Just to put it in context, 20 hours of practice is about 40 to 45 minutes a day for about

  • a month. If you can rearrange your schedule to really put some hard-focus time (half hour,

  • 45 minutes a day), you can make a ton of improvement in a couple weeks to a month.

  • That's something that I think is doable regardless of where you are in your life. No matter how

  • busy your schedule is, you can probably find half an hour-ish every day.

  • >> Pete: Even with a crying baby. >> Josh: Yeah. Funny story - while I was doing

  • this - and part of the reason that I was doing this research in the first place is I run

  • a business, my wife runs a business, and we had a baby. All of the sudden, I just had

  • zero free time to dabble with things. My general method for learning new things

  • prior to that was just, oh, I'm interested, and I'll dabble for a couple months and develop

  • a certain level of skill. But it was really super inefficient, and I didn't have time

  • to dabble anymore. And so it became a challenge. If I only have maybe an hour, if I'm lucky,

  • every day to sit down and learn something new, how can I use that hour as effectively

  • as possible? That's where this whole method came from.

  • >> Pete: I think something about this too is that for people who are trying to learn

  • a skill to better their lives, not just for enjoyment - what I mean by that is, let's

  • say learning to play the guitar or even play golf is an enjoyment side of things. You should

  • be able to juggle your schedule for that enjoyment. But if you're trying to grow a business or

  • you're trying to master your personal finances, if you can't get out of bed 45 minutes earlier

  • every day for at least one month so you can become a better businessperson, so you can

  • manage your family money a lot better. Then there's bigger questions to answer in

  • your life almost, is that do you really want that outcome then if you're not willing to

  • give up 45 minutes of sleep? Now there's some people who have a crying baby that are up

  • three times a night and you need the extra 45 minutes because it's been sucked away by

  • the little one. I've got a five-month-old, I know exactly what that's like.

  • >> Josh: Yeah, I totally feel for you right now.

  • >> Pete: I might ask about some skill acquisition about changing some nappies and getting them

  • to self-settle and stuff like that that might be difficult. But the thing is, if it is really

  • something in most people's lives, they're sleeping eight to nine hours a night, and

  • yes, you need that amount of sleep long term. But for the sake of 30 days to change your

  • life, to really develop that strong skill that's going to make an effect on the other

  • 16 hours of your awake time, be it a better business, more peace with better finances,

  • whatever it might be, get your ass out of bed 45 minutes earlier.

  • >> Josh: Totally. >> Pete: There's no excuse around that.

  • >> Josh: And there are so many high-leverage skills that you could learn in a very short

  • period of time that will change your business. I brought up programming earlier. Oh my gosh.

  • Every business is just a system, right? It's a system designed to create a very specific

  • outcome, which is a happy customer and more money in your bank account so you can do it

  • again. If you think of your business as a system,

  • programming is just a way of making that system very specific so it can run without you. So

  • if there's any repeatable thing that you find yourself paying attention to over and over

  • and over again, if it can be handled by a person in a repetitive way, you can create

  • a program that does that for you. One of the most rewarding things that I've

  • done from a business standpoint is learning to program, because now, I like to call it,

  • I have my own little robot army that does my bidding. It's great. And one of the idiosyncratic

  • ways that I really prefer to run businesses is, it's just me. I don't have employees.

  • I don't have contractors. It's just me. So instead of spending all of my time doing these

  • very repetitive things, I can invest maybe 10 or 20 hours creating a program that does

  • it for me, and once it's done, it's done. Every single time that program runs, I save

  • myself so much time. It's crazy. And so programming is a high-leverage skill.

  • Learning things like persuasive writing for marketing and sales, and doing copywriting

  • and creating offers and testing and public speaking skills, all of those things are things

  • that you could learn how to do in a very short period of time, and they can change your business

  • completely. It just takes some time and investment figuring out how they work.

  • >> Pete: I think the copywriting one is a brilliant example. If you have no skills in

  • copywriting in that element in your business, if you can start developing this practice

  • routine for an hour a day for this next 30 days or 45 minutes, and then once you develop

  • that skill, rather than turning that practice time to something else, turn that scheduled

  • habit that you've formed into actual action implementation.

  • So you start writing a blog post every day or a new sales letter every day, or tweaking

  • the control in your marketing campaign every day. You turn that practice into routine,

  • which I think you touch on in the book as well.

  • >> Josh: Yeah. So one of the nice things about the learning method I talk about in The First

  • 20 Hours is that you don't have to stop after 20 hours. That's just the beginning. Sometimes

  • within those first 20 hours, you reach the level of skill that you want to and so you

  • just go out and use it, and yay for you. But you can also, if you want to keep getting

  • better at something that has a lot of value to either your business or your life, you

  • just do it again. You reach a certain level of skill, you asses where you are, you figure

  • out where you want to go next, and then you do this same thing again to keep leveling

  • up, whatever that looks like for your particular skill.

  • And so yeah, it's things like really learning how copywriting works can change your business

  • overnight. And it doesn't take very long to reach a really good level of skill, and then

  • you can spend your time using it, and that can change your business.

  • >> Pete: Absolutely. Well, Josh, really do appreciate your time. The First 20 Hours is

  • a fantastic book. You cover a whole bunch of stuff in the same light as what we have

  • spoken about today, but you also cover a whole bunch of your actual case studies, for want

  • of a better term, around you going about learning everything from yoga to touch-typing. What

  • was the craziest thing you learned along the journey, and what's the craziest story you've

  • got? >> Josh: Probably the craziest thing was,

  • one of the things I learned how to do for the book was windsurfing, which I had never

  • done before, and I am not, as you'd call it, a very coordinated individual. I didn't think

  • about this before I started, but I have zero experience balancing on a moving surface.

  • Like no skateboarding, no anything. >> Pete: Surfing, snowboarding,

  • >> Josh: Yeah. I drank so much lake water that month, really crazy, but also a really

  • good example of being demonstrably, extremely bad at something, having zero experience,

  • and understanding and being able to see just how far I came in practicing in a smart way.

  • It's super fun now. And so I think that's the real hopeful message here is you could

  • believe, in the back of your mind there's probably something you've always wanted to

  • learn how to do, I'm willing to wager. So just take a moment and think for yourself,

  • what is that thing that would be super cool for you to learn, for whatever reason?

  • And no matter how bad you're afraid you might be at it, this process works, and it works

  • well. And so you can take that thing you've wanted to learn for a long time, and a month

  • from now, you could be doing it and getting value from it and having fun with it. The

  • general message is don't wait. Start now, because that thing you've always wanted to

  • do is well within your reach. >> Pete: And it's not 10,000 hours. It's only

  • 20, and 20 is achievable. >> Josh: No, it's nowhere close, yeah.

  • >> Pete: So let me ask you the final question that I ask every single guest we have on the

  • show, Josh. And that question is, what is the one question I didn't ask you that I should've?

  • >> Josh: This has been a pretty comprehensive interview, actually. I think the biggest thing

  • is, what do you want to learn and why, probably? And I would ask that to you first. We've been

  • talking about this method of learning new things. How are you going to use this?

  • >> Pete: Me, personally? >> Josh: Yeah!

  • >> Pete: Great question. I think for me, it's the baby stuff, that's a forced learning,

  • it's not really a choice so to speak, now that he's here and giving us beautiful smiles.

  • That's a very good question. What is on my hit list of learning? What is it at the moment

  • that I'm trying to learn more? I touched on it before, actually, just more

  • of a personal financing. It's quite funny. I've been very, very successful over the years

  • with business, but I want to get better at personal finance. Not necessarily trading

  • stocks and [things like that], but just really increase the actual personal side of stuff.

  • I've been very, very good at turning the tap on to increase the income into the business

  • and into the personal life. And now just about setting some stuff up for the family, a bit

  • more than I have before, than having just a whole bunch of cash sitting in the bank

  • account. The skill around that, I guess, is probably a good way to put it.

  • >> Josh: Excellent. It's so fun. I've been doing so many podcasts and radio interviews,

  • and having a good time doing that. This is something that I'm practicing, trying to get

  • better at. So that's been super fun. And the fun thing about this particular project is

  • that the method itself may seem like incredible common sense.

  • It is in a lot of ways. It's really sitting down and systematically doing it. That's where

  • you get the value. But the fun that I've been having with this particular project is starting

  • to hear stories from people who are using it to learn cool things. And I'll share three

  • of my favorites so far. The website for the book, if you're interested,

  • First20Hours.com. Ton of information. You can see everything about the book. I'm doing

  • interviews with people who are using this method to do cool things. And the first one,

  • which just went up a few days ago, was a guy by the name of Jon Hart, and he learned how

  • to fly an airplane in 16 and a half hours. >> Pete: Awesome.

  • >> Josh: Yeah. Going from knowing absolutely nothing about aviation to his first solo flight,

  • 16 and a half hours. Super cool. I heard there was a 90-year-old woman who sat down and is

  • learning how to play the piano because she's always wanted to. So it doesn't matter how

  • old you are, the stuff works really, really well.

  • And then my last, probably my favorite, unexpected skill, which I'm looking forward to hearing

  • more about, there's a gentleman who is in the process of using this method to learn

  • sumo wrestling. >> Pete: Wow.

  • >> Josh: No joke. So I think that's the really fun part about this particular project for

  • me, is you really can use it to learn anything, either business or personal. So I'm looking

  • forward to hearing way more stories about people going out into the world and using

  • this to do something cool. >> Pete: Awesome. So someone's got to learn

  • how to raise alpacas or hot air balloon pilot. Just First20Hours.com, and hit you up there?

  • Is that the best place? >> Josh: Yeah, it's the best place.

  • >> Pete: Awesome. Josh, thank you so much for your time. The book, The First 20 Hours,

  • is available where all good books are sold. Primarily Amazon. So thank you much for your

  • time, buddy. >> Josh: Thanks, Pete.

  • [Pete's conversation with Josh ends] >> Dom: So there you go, folks. Pete and Josh

  • there, covering again, as always, such a wide range of stuff, but all completely relevant

  • to you. Not only in personal development, but in actual business skills. Pete, you drilled

  • down there with Josh quite a lot into how this rapid skill acquisition applies to people

  • in business rather than just these hobby skills like golf or drawing, or whatever. I thought

  • that was some good stuff that Josh put across there.

  • >> Pete: Very, very intelligent guy, clearly. Very good at articulating his message. And

  • clearly good at learning skills, because he's proven it in a number of different areas inside

  • the book. So I highly recommend it. It's definitely worth checking out and having a bit of a read.

  • Particularly, I think, the part of the book where he talks about the theory and the strategy

  • for learning. When he starts talking about his journey,

  • I enjoyed it but it wasn't really the meat of the book that I loved. It was more the

  • theory and the strategy and the technology that he talks about of skill acquisition,

  • which I think is the real take-away from what he shares.

  • >> Dom: Absolutely. When I was listening to it through, I remember thinking the way that

  • he showed, because he talks about breaking down what you're trying to learn into its

  • component parts, and when he talked about business, it was very interesting. He took

  • his experience from his book The Personal MBA.

  • But it was very interesting to see how his breakdown of business and this idea of focusing

  • on a particular part of your business was pretty much parallel to our own 7 Levers in

  • terms of identifying subareas of your business to focus on and then develop skills in that

  • area. So if nothing else, folks, everything that

  • Josh was talking about today really is applicable in those areas. If you don't know much about

  • traffic generation, the first of the 7 Levers, then focusing on one part, one skill, one

  • tactic in traffic generation is the thing for you to learn, is going to make that huge

  • difference and that 10% increase that we talk about all the time.

  • I'm inclined to agree with you Pete. You know that I'm a great student of - it sounds silly

  • - I'm a student of learning. I'm always fascinated about ways of acquiring skills. I know I was

  • attracted to this book because it almost seemed a bit like that scene from the Matrix, where

  • the guy leans back and then he says, "I know kung fu."

  • >> Pete: That would be awesome, wouldn't it, just to be able to go like - I always had

  • this dream when I was younger that I could go and shake someone's hand and just like

  • get all their knowledge out of a handshake. That would be really cool.

  • >> Dom: He opened with the important perspective, which is those first 20 hours will get you

  • to a level of proficiency, and maybe that's all you need. We could go on this topic for

  • a very long time. I think he's got a good perspective. And I think it's a great way,

  • as you say, the meat of that was the breaking down the thing you want to learn, identifying

  • and breaking it down. So it's a great thing. Folks, as always, a

  • lot of the books that we talk about on PreneurCast are available as audiobooks. I think this

  • is a great one to have as an audiobook because it is story-based. You can pick up a lot from

  • it just by you walking around doing your daily chores, as I do with a lot of material.

  • We recommend, one of our sponsors is Audible books. If you go over to AudibleTrial.com/PreneurCast,

  • if you're not already a member, then you can start a free trial. The free trial allows

  • you to download your first book for free. So you could download Josh's book if you're

  • not already a member of Audible. If you are, dive on there and check out The

  • First 20 Hours from Josh Kaufman. Cool. As always, we try and keep things to time, and

  • I think after last week, most people have heard quite enough of me, Pete.

  • >> Pete: Let's just remind people to stay part of the community. PreneurMarketing.com

  • is the home of the show. You can get transcripts of all of the episodes. You can get all the

  • show notes and the links and a whole bunch more great regular content over at PreneurMarketing.com.

  • And if you happened to be on iTunes buying Miley Cyrus's new single for some crazy reason,

  • make sure you jump over to the Podcast page and leave a comment. Because that is a huge

  • benefit for us as well. It's a great way of saying thanks, and we do appreciate every

  • single comment that we do get on iTunes, so please do us a solid and leave one.

  • >> Dom: Absolutely. And as I pointed out last week, we're now on SoundCloud as well, another

  • place you can listen to us, get hold of the latest versions of all the shows. And folks,

  • we are, now that Preneur Marketing is fully up and running, or as they say, fully operational,

  • we have our little audio voicemail button on the right-hand side of the site over at

  • PreneurMarketing.com. So you can pop on there and just very quickly

  • click that button and record us a little message with your microphone, and you never know.

  • We might contact you and ask you if you don't mind being featured on the show.

  • >> Pete: Absolutely. Talk to you all next week.

  • >> Dom: Bye, folks.

>> Dom Goucher: Hello, everyone, and welcome to this week's edition of PreneurCast, with

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PreneurCast113:Josh Kaufman的加速學習 (PreneurCast113: Accelerated Learning with Josh Kaufman)

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    yvonneho7317 發佈於 2021 年 01 月 14 日
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