and we would really like to get to know each other,

而且我們很想認識彼此，

but I've got to get off at the next stop,

但我下一站就得下車了，

so you're going to tell me three things about yourself

所以你要告訴我關於你的三件事，

that just define you as a person,

三件能夠定義你這個人的事，

three things about yourself

三件關於你的事，

that will help me understand who you are,

能夠幫助我了解你是誰，

three things that just get to your very essence.

三件直抵你核心的事。

And what I'm wondering

我疑惑的是，

is, of those three things,

那三件事當中，

is any one of them

其中是否有一件

surviving some kind of trauma?

是從某種創傷中倖存的經驗？

Cancer survivor, rape survivor,

癌症倖存者、性侵倖存者、

Holocaust survivor, incest survivor.

大屠殺倖存者、亂倫倖存者。

Ever notice how we tend to identify ourselves

你有沒有發現，

by our wounds?

我們常用受過的傷來定義自己？

And where I have seen this survivor identity

我看到這種倖存者的身分

have the most consequences

最常出現在癌症病患身上。

is in the cancer community.

我在癌症病患的圈子裡很久了，

And I've been around this community for a long time,

因為我擔任一家收容所和醫院的牧師

because I've been a hospice and a hospital chaplain

將近三十年了。

for almost 30 years.

2005 年時，

And in 2005, I was working at a big cancer center

我在一家大型癌症醫療中心工作，

when I received the news that

就在那時我得知

my mother had breast cancer.

我媽罹患了乳癌。

And then five days later,

五天後，

I received the news that I had breast cancer.

我得知自己罹患了乳癌。

My mother and I can be competitive —

我和我媽都很好勝，

(Laughter) —

（笑聲）

but I was really not trying to compete with her on this one.

但這次我真的不想和她比。

And in fact, I thought, well,

事實上，我想，好吧，

if you have to have cancer,

如果你得了癌症，

it's pretty convenient to be working

在治療的地方工作也蠻方便的。

at a place that treats it.

但我聽到很多氣憤的人說，

But this is what I heard from a lot of outraged people.

什麼？

What?

你是牧師，

You're the chaplain.

那你應該免疫啊。

You should be immune.

就像是也許我應該先收到警告就沒事，

Like, maybe I should have just gotten off

而不是直接被開罰單，

with a warning instead of an actual ticket,

畢竟我是隊上的人。

because I'm on the force.

後來我就在我工作的 那家癌症醫療中心做治療，

So I did get my treatment at the cancer center where I worked,

真的超級方便，

which was amazingly convenient,

我做了化療，

and I had chemotherapy

做了一次乳房切除和鹽水袋隆乳手術，

and a mastectomy, and a saline implant put in,

在我多說一句話之前， 最好現在就說，

and so before I say another word, let me just say right now,

這顆是假的。（笑聲）

this is the fake one. (Laughter)

我發現我得打開天窗說亮話，

I have found that I need to get that out of the way,

因為我會看到有人說：

because I'll see somebody go

「噢，我知道是這一顆。」

"Oh, I know it's this one."

之後我動了一下，換個姿勢，他們又會說：

And then I'll move or I'll gesture and they'll go,

「噢，是那顆才對。」

"No, it's that one."

現在你知道是哪顆了。

So now you know.

當病人讓我學到很多，

I learned a lot being a patient,

而且很神奇的是

and one of the surprising things was

癌症經驗當中只有一小部分

that only a small part of the cancer experience

和醫學有關。

is about medicine.

大部分都關於感覺、信仰，

Most of it is about feelings and faith

失去、找尋自我身分，

and losing and finding your identity

發掘力量，

and discovering strength

以及你從不知道自己有的韌性。

and flexibility you never even knew you had.

你會了解

It's about realizing that

生命中最重要的事都和事情無關，

the most important things in life are

而是和人際關係有關，

not things at all, but relationships,

和笑著面對不確定的事物有關，

and it's about laughing in the face of uncertainty

並學會逃離任何事的方法

and learning that the way to get out of almost anything

就是說：「我得了癌症。」

is to say, "I have cancer."

我學到的另一件事就是

So the other thing I learned was that

我不需要把「癌症倖存者」的角色

I don't have to take on "cancer survivor"

當做自己的身分，

as my identity,

但卻有一股強大的力量

but, boy, are there powerful forces

推著我這麼做。

pushing me to do just that.

請別誤會我說的話。

Now, don't, please, misunderstand me.

癌症團體、

Cancer organizations

早期篩檢的慾望、

and the drive for early screening

罹癌意識和癌症調查

and cancer awareness and cancer research

都讓癌症標準化了，

have normalized cancer,

這是很棒的事。

and this is a wonderful thing.

現在我們談論癌症

We can now talk about cancer

不需要再竊竊私語了。

without whispering.

我們談論癌症，還能互相打氣。

We can talk about cancer and we can support one another.

但有時候感覺上

But sometimes, it feels

只要有人表現出一點興趣，

like people go a little overboard

他們就能滔滔不絕地說 之後我們會有什麼感覺。

and they start telling us how we're going to feel.

大概在我做完手術一個星期後，

So about a week after my surgery,

有訪客在我家過夜。

we had a houseguest.

這大概是我們犯的第一個錯誤。

That was probably our first mistake.

各位要知道

And keep in mind that

在我生命中的這個時刻，

at this point in my life

我已經當了超過二十年的牧師，

I had been a chaplain for over 20 years,

像臨終、死亡和生命的意義這些議題

and issues like dying and death

都是我以前能說個沒完沒了的話題。

and the meaning of life,

所以那天晚餐時，

these are all things I'd been yakking about forever.

客人開始高舉雙手做伸展，

So at dinner that night,

他說：「小黛，你知道

our houseguest proceeds to stretch his arms up over his head,

現在你真的要了解什麼是重要的事了。

and say, "You know, Deb,

沒錯，你會在生活上做出一些重大改變，

now you're really going to learn what's important.

現在你得開始思考自己的死亡。

Yes, you are going to make some big changes

是啊，這癌症是叫醒你的鬧鐘。」

in your life,

這些金玉良言

and now you're going to start thinking about your death.

是那些過來人分享自己的經驗，

Yep, this cancer is your wakeup call."

但當有人告訴你

Now, these are golden words

你之後會有什麼感覺，

coming from someone who is speaking about

那還真是一派胡言。

their own experience,

我沒赤手空拳就殺了他的唯一理由

but when someone is telling you

是因為我的右手舉不起來。

how you are going to feel,

但我其實對他說了很難聽的字眼，

it's instant crap.

後面再接一個普通的字眼，

The only reason I did not kill him

（笑聲）

with my bare hands

讓我老公不得不說：「她剛剛吃了藥。」

was because I could not lift my right arm.

（笑聲）

But I did say a really bad word to him,

在我接受治療之後，

followed by a regular word, that —

感覺就像每個人都告訴我 我的經驗會有什麼意義。

(Laughter) —

「噢，這表示你得走路。」

made my husband say, "She's on narcotics."

「噢，這表示你中午要來聚餐。」

(Laughter)

「這表示你會穿戴粉紅色緞帶、

And then after my treatment, it just felt like

粉紅色圓領衫、

everyone was telling me what my experience was going to mean.

頭巾、耳環、

"Oh, this means you're going to be doing the walk."

手鐲和內褲。」

"Oh, this means you're coming to the luncheon."

內褲，不會吧，真的，你上網查。

"This means you're going to be wearing

（笑聲）

the pink ribbon and the pink t-shirt

內褲要怎麼提高癌症意識？

and the headband and the earrings

只有我老公才能看我的內褲呀。

and the bracelet and the panties."

（笑聲）

Panties. No, seriously, google it.

他對癌症的意識已經夠了。

(Laughter)

那個時候我才覺得，噢！天啊！

How is that raising awareness?

我的人生都快被癌症給控制了！

Only my husband should be seeing my panties.

就在那個時候我告訴自己， 主張你的經驗。

(Laughter)

別讓經驗主張你。

He's pretty aware of cancer already.

我們都知道

It was at that point where I felt like, oh my God,

處理創傷、損失

this is just taking over my life.

和任何改變生命經驗的方法，

And that's when I told myself, claim your experience.

就是找出意義。

Don't let it claim you.

但問題是，

We all know that

沒有人能告訴我們

the way to cope with trauma, with loss,

自己的經驗有什麼意義。

with any life-changing experience,

我們得自己決定意義。

is to find meaning.

那不需要是什麼了不起、

But here's the thing:

外顯的意義。

No one can tell us

我們不必全都去成立基金會、社團，

what our experience means.

或是寫書、

We have to decide what it means.

拍紀錄片。

And it doesn't have to be some gigantic,

意義也可以是寧靜

extroverted meaning.

與內斂的。

We don't all have to start a foundation

也許我們能為生命做個小決定，

or an organization or write a book

讓它帶來大改變。

or make a documentary.

幾年前，我有個病人，

Meaning can be quiet

他是個優秀青年，

and introverted.

員工都很喜歡他，

Maybe we make one small decision about our lives

所以我們都很驚訝

that can bring about big change.

他居然沒有朋友。

Many years ago, I had a patient,

他自力更生，

just a wonderful young man

自己一個人來做化療，

who was loved by the staff,

他接受治療，

and so it was something of a shock to us to realize

然後一個人走路回家。

that he had no friends.

我還問他：

He lived by himself,

「嘿！你怎麼都不找個朋友來陪你？」

he would come in for chemotherapy by himself,

他說：「我其實沒什麼朋友。」

he would receive his treatment,

但他在注射那個樓層有很多朋友。

and then he'd walk home alone.

我們都愛他，也都常進出他的病房。

And I even asked him. I said, "Hey,

所以他做化療的最後一天，

how come you never bring a friend with you?"

我們為他唱歌，

And he said, "I don't really have any friends."

幫他戴上皇冠，我們還吹泡泡，

But he had tons of friends on the infusion floor.

然後我問他：

We all loved him, and people were going in and out of his room all the time.

「你之後打算做什麼？」

So at his last chemo,

他說：

we sang him the song

「交朋友。」

and we put the crown on his head and we blew the bubbles,

他真的交了朋友。

and then I asked him, I said,

他開始當志工，在那邊交了朋友；

"So what are you going to do now?"

他開始上教堂，也在那交了朋友。

And he answered,

他邀請我們夫妻到他家參加聖誕派對，

"Make friends."

整間都塞滿了他的朋友。

And he did.

主張你的經驗，

He started volunteering and he made friends there,

別讓經驗主張你。

and he began going to a church and he made friends there,

他決定這個經驗的意義

and at Christmas he invited my husband and me to a party in his apartment,

是要讓他認識擁有友誼的喜悅，

and the place was filled with his friends.

然後學習交朋友。

Claim your experience.

那你呢？

Don't let it claim you.

你要怎麼在碰到的鳥事裡找出意義？

He decided that the meaning of his experience

可能是最近的事，

was to know the joy of friendship,

或是你背負了很久的事。

and then learn to make friends.

改變意義永遠都不晚，

So what about you?

因為意義是動態的。

How are you going to find meaning

今天代表的意義

in your crappy experience?

不見得和一年後一樣，

It could be a recent one,

或和十年後一樣。

or it could be one that you've been carrying around

要跳脫倖存者的身分，變成另一個人，

for a really long time.

永遠都不遲。

It's never too late to change what it means,

你聽那個詞有多沉重？

because meaning is dynamic.

倖存者。

What it means today

沒有動靜，毫無成長。

may not be what it means a year from now,

主張你的經驗，

or 10 years from now.

別讓經驗主張你，因為如果你屈服了，

It's never too late to become someone other

我相信你就會變得綁手綁腳，

than simply a survivor.

不再進步，不再成長。

Hear how static that word sounds?

但當然有時候並不是外在壓力

Survivor.

讓我們揹起倖存者的身分。

No movement, no growth.

有時候我們就喜歡隨之而來的好處。

Claim your experience.

有時候會有好處。

Don't let it claim you, because if you do,

但之後我們就會陷入膠著。

I believe you will become trapped,

我剛當實習牧師 學到的其中一件事

you will not grow, you will not evolve.

就是牧師的 3C 守則：

But of course, sometimes it's not outside pressures

安撫 (comfort)、澄清 (clarify)，

that cause us to take on that identity of survivor.

如果需要的話，面對 (confront)，

Sometimes we just like the perks.

或是挑戰 (challenge)。

Sometimes there's a payoff.

我們都蠻喜歡安撫和澄清，

But then we get stuck.

但可不太喜歡面對。

Now, one of the first things I learned

另一件讓我愛上

as a chaplain intern was the three C's

當牧師的事情是

of the chaplain's job:

在病人治療一年後，或是幾年後

Comfort, clarify and, when necessary, confront

和他們見面，

or challenge.

看見他們的變化、

Now, we all pretty much love the comforting

他們的生活進展，

and the clarifying.

和他們發生了什麼事，感覺很酷。

The confronting, not so much.

有天我非常興奮，

One of the other things that I loved

因為我在診所大廳拿到一張紙，

about being a chaplain was

給我的是去年見過的病人，

seeing patients a year, or even several years

她和兩位成年的女兒一起來，

after their treatment, because

我也都認識，今天是她年度追蹤的回診日。

it was just really cool to see how they had changed

我到大廳的時候，他們欣喜若狂，

and how their lives had evolved

因為她才剛拿到所有的檢驗結果，

and what had happened to them.

NED，就是「無病徵」 (No Evidence of Disease)。

So I was thrilled one day

我總是把那看做「還有半條命」 (Not Entirely Dead)。

to get a page down into the lobby of the clinic

他們欣喜若狂，

from a patient who I had seen the year before,

我們都坐下，

and she was there with her two adult daughters,

感覺很怪，

who I also knew, for her one year follow-up exam.

因為才短短兩分鐘，她就開始重述

So I got down to the lobby, and they were ecstatic

自己當初確診、手術和化療的故事，

because she had just gotten all of her test results back

即使身為她的牧師，我每週和她見面，

and she was NED: No Evidence of Disease.

我已經知道這個故事了。

Which I used to think meant Not Entirely Dead.

她當時用的字眼都是受難、

So they were ecstatic, we sat down to visit,

非常痛苦、掙扎。

and it was so weird, because

最後她以這句話做結論：

within two minutes, she started retelling me the story

「我感覺被釘在十字架上處死了。」

of her diagnosis and her surgery and her chemo,

那時候，她的兩個女兒站起來說：

even though, as her chaplain, I saw her every week,

「我們要去買咖啡。」

and so I knew this story.

然後就離開了。

And she was using words like suffering,

告訴我關於你的三件事，在抵達下一站之前。

agony, struggle.

大家都下了公車，

And she ended her story with,

還聽不到她說第二或第三個故事。

"I felt crucified."

所以我遞給她一張面紙，

And at that point, her two daughters got up and said,

給她一個擁抱，

"We're going to go get coffee."

因為我真的很關心她，

And they left.

所以我說：

Tell me three things about yourself before the next stop.

「從你的十字架上下來吧。」

People were leaving the bus before she even got

她說：「什麼？」

to number two or number three.

我又說了一次： 「從你的十字架上下來吧。」

So I handed her a tissue,

她很棒的是，

and I gave her a hug,

能說出接納癌症的理由，

and then, because I really cared for this woman,

然後緊抓住這個身分。

I said,

這件事讓她受到很多關注。

"Get down off your cross."

換成是別人在照顧她， 不是她要照顧他人，

And she said, "What?"

但現在卻造成了反效果，

And I repeated, "Get down off your cross."

這件事不斷推開大家。

And to her credit, she could talk about her reasons

大家不斷離開去買咖啡，