與邁克爾-傑克遜一起生活 - 第二場 (PL / ENG 字幕) (Living With Michael Jackson - Take 2 (PL / ENG subtitles))

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we aware of the recent television special,
that claimed to give an honest, candid, and revealing look
into the private life of one of the world's most successful and controversial celebrities,
Michael Jackson
The revelations were explosive, the ratings were enormous,
but Michael has claimed that what, TV journalist, Martin Bashir presented
was a twisted and edited construction of scandal and innuendo
Not a true representation of the interviews that actually took place.
In the next two hours, we're gonna give you an opportunity unprecedented in the history of television.
We're gonna show you footage that was never intended to be broadcast.
Tonight, the private video from Michael's own cameras.
Cameras that shot 'The Michael Jackson Interview: The Footage You Were Never Meant to See'
As much as I do not speak about my family, I will
right now.
For the first time, Michael's ex-wife speaks out in public.
My kids don't call me mom, because I don't want them to.
You'll find out what really happened during the astonishing incidents with his children in Germany.
And I've seen people that flip their kids up in the air, do somersaults, and catch them.
To be honest with you, I think, wait another four or five years
the kids will come in front of the camera and they will defend their daddy.
You'll hear about Michael's childhood.
One of the things that I can see this man tried to do,
he tried to pin something on me where I was real brutal.
You'll find out how Michael really feels about his father.
He doesn't know this, but I walk in the room and his presence would be there and I'd faint.
You'll hear about Michael's surgery that the other special didn't mention.
The whole top of his caught fire, right in front of my eyes.
You'll hear the truth behind Michael's children and their disguises.
Michael is very proud of his children; I'm the one who's terrified.
You'll go behind the rumors of the Neverland Ranch.
I never did - I would slit my wrists before I would hurt a child.
And find out how those rumors have driven a family from their home.
Gavin call me, he was crying on the phone.
He went in gas station, the kid in gas station, they start kidding
"Oh you are the kid who doing this with Michael. You slept with Michael."
They ruined this kid's life!
You'll hear from the people closest to Michael.
I've heard someone say on the television that
no-one should be allowed behind those gates at Neverland, especially the children.
They don't even know what they're talking about.
Plus, a surprise revelation from the man behind the Michael Jackson interviews.
There will be a lot of controversy about this.
Stupid tabloids. You're beyond this, you're a respected journalist.
All tonight, on 'The Michael Jackson Interview: The Footage You Were Never Meant to See,'
With Mr. Bashir's full knowledge, Michael had his own behind the scenes camera document the major interviews.
The quality of the audio and video may be a bit raw at times,
but it will enable you to see and hear the interviews as they actually happened,
and will allow you, the viewing audience, to draw your own conclusions.
While Michael Jackson has provided this footage to us,
he has absolutely no control over the editorial content of this program.
But who is Martin Bashir and how did he get an exclusive interview
with one of the most reclusive pop stars the world has ever known?
In 1995, this little known British journalist caused an uproar
when his sensational interview with Princess Diana
revealed details of her extra marital affair.
Since then, he has scored interviews with England's most notorious newsmakers,
becoming somewhat of a celebrity himself.
His interview was, as he put it, "a request to show me the real man,
but show me everything, make nothing off limits."
Michael agreed, and the first interview was scheduled for the summer of 2002.
In these photos of one of Bashir's interviews with Jackson,
you can see the camera that captured the footage you were never meant to see.
It's mounted right there, on the light stand.
This is the view it was capturing at the last interview,
and this is the shot from the very first interview at Neverland.
The man adjusting the lens
?And now this is on.
- Okay, see, can we have silence in the house? - Yeah
Is Jackson's own documentary cameraman.
Oh, I just wanted to clarify that it was not a 'secret video.'
Right now they are saying that we were secretly video taping it, but that's not the truth.
Mr. Bashir saw me hooking up the camera,
and everybody saw the camera up there and we were just rolling it.
We usually do documentary of every thing that Mr. Jackson does.
The bigger the star, the bigger the target.
The more popular I became, the more rumors that were created
None of which were true.
I mean the moment I started breaking the all time records of the biggest selling albums of all time,
they calling me weird overnight, strange, whacko.
They said that I'm a girl, homosexual,
"He wants to buy the elephant man bones,"
"He sleeps in a hyperbaric chamber." None of that stuff is true,
all completely made up. It's all lies.
I sleep in a bed. I mean, people would be so surprised how normal or simple
Most people would have a hard time thinking Michael Jackson's life is normal or simple.
Maybe it's that ranch, north of Santa Barbara, California; The 3,000 acres he calls Neverland.
Neverland is an extraordinary,
What inspired me, it was so easy because it was me being myself
creating things that I love, and what I love, kids happen to love,
or what the child that lives inside the adult happens to love.
It is so easy because I'm putting behind the gates everything I never got to do when I was a kid.
- Somewhat? - What do you regret?
When I was really little, around 11 or 12, I was under contract with Motown
and I would have to go to the recording studio. I had to go and make these albums,
because the summer tour was right around the corner.
Right across the street from the recording studio was a ball park,
and I could hear the kids, the roar of the crowd, them playing and catching ball,
having fun, playing tennis. Some of those times I so passionately wanted to just go over there,
just play a little bit, and not go to the recording studio and sing;
just have some fun with the kids, and I couldn't.
People say, "Why is he always with children?!" Well, I was raised in a world with adults.
The kids were playing and in bed at sleep at night. I was up doing clubs,
I was doing club dates, three in the morning. The strip tease would come up after us.
We were performing.
We didn't have friends;
My brothers were my friends. We worked, we worked, we worked.
There was no Christmas, there were no birthdays; we were very strict Jehovah's Witnesses.
So, I'm compensating. Major make me sure that I'm compensated for the lost.
So you come behind my gates, and you'll see an amusement park, you'll see animals,
you'll see everything I never got to do.
There's candy everywhere.
It's fun.
While Bashir and his crew were here at Neverland, they got to witness what is almost the weekly experience.
Busloads of children, some from the inner city, some orphans, some terminally ill,
but all of them escaping their realities to spend the day at Michael Jackson's creation.
Who's gonna try to help me?
You want to come over here and see the elephants?
I feel totally at home with them. I can talk to them one on one, because they don't judge you.
They're not looking for anything from you, they just want to have some fun,
and that's the same with myself. I can connect to that, I can understand that.
The fact that I missed that on so much, as I was a child
as soon as they come in the room for me, the whole room lights up.
I like the sound they make.
They're really funny. Oh God, they're really funny.
Yeah, one of the little boys said to me, he saw all the rides, and all the amusements and he said,
"Michael Jackson, you own all of this?" I go, "Yeah."
He said, "You paid for all of this?" I went, "Yeah, I did."
"And you still have money left over?" That's exactly what he said to me.
I said, "Yeah." He said, "I can't believe it! I can't believe it!"
That's exactly what he said
He was amazed that I still had money afterwards.
We're the Make-A-Wish staff members, and we're escorting all the Make-A-Wish families who came to meet Michael.
It's just a great thing to be a part of it and to see how happy they are.
Everything's free, theatre, amusement parks, whatever they want to do, we can do it.
Millions a year, but you know, I get it all back when I see them smile.
Peter Pan
Peter Pan represents, to me, represents something that's very special to my heart.
He represents youth, childhood, never growing up, magic, flying,
everything that I think that children and wonderment and magic,
what it's all about.
To me I just have never ever grown out of loving that or thinking that it's very special.
No, I am Peter Pan.
I'm Peter Pan, in my heart.
Yes, that's absolutly true.
I've never been betrayed or deceived by children.
Adults have let me down; adults have let the world down.
What you're seeing all took place on the day that Martin Bashir and his crew were filming at Neverland.
You actually see him in several of the shots being taken by Jackson's camera crew.
This was supposed to be a documentary to tell the truth, everything,
I mean who would bring somebody to his life, and open up all the way, and wanted to lie about it?
If want to lie about it, don't even do it.
He didn't have to do this documentary; nobody forced him to do this documentary.
After a full day spent with children from the Make-A-Wish foundation at Michael Jackson's Neverland Ranch,
what was Mr. Bashir's comment?
We'll quote directly from his appearance on ABC's Primetime Thursday.
As we said, that was Bashir's comment heard on TV by millions of people,
but what did Bashir say to Michael Jackson about this day at Neverland?
Let's take a look at the footage that was captured by Michael's camera documenting the interviews.
You know what? He does it all the time and a lot of people see it.
A lot of people see it
The woman you see has been Michael's makeup artist for over 20 years,
after listening to the glowing praise Bashir had for Michael in this interview,
she had a very hard believing he could call Neverland a "dangerous place for children."
It's so hard for me to imagine that Michael
opened up the gates not only to Neverland but to his heart, to Bashir.
I really thought that Bashir got it.
- This is getting worse. - ?And you never see anyone talk about it.
And if they do, they don't
don't make it in papers, they don't make it on the interviews, all is negative stuffs
Stupid rumors - They cut questions out, they just make it
That's why he doesn't do any interviews anymore.
They twist everything. From the moment I met him, I remember
How can people be so cruel? I remember reading an article and they
Now, what could make an award winning journalist have such a different opinion
between what he would say on the air,
and what he would say in the interview footage, not included in his special?
It appears that after Mr. Bashir had called cut for his own camera crew,
he may well have forgotten that Michael's camera was still recording his every word.
A possibility supported by a ripped request for both him and the producers of his special
to make Michael's footage available for their review.
The different opinion expressed by Mr. Bashir regarding the safety of the underprivileged children
who visit Neverland, is only one of several contradictory moments captured on tape
All of which you will see and hear on this program.
When we come back, an exclusive interview with Michael's ex-wife.
As much as I do not speak about my family, I will, right now.
Michael makes a long overdue confession.
- You had sex with Debbie? -Yes.
I know that's difficult for you to say, because you're embarrassed,
but you actually had sex with her, you conceived with - Yes. yes
And Debbie tells us about the results.
And then his son was born, and the look on his face
Plus, a very surprising revelation from Michael's private cameras.
All when we return to
In addition to the never before seen footage from Martin Bashir's interviews,
we have also been allowed unprecedented interviews to some of the people closest to Michael Jackson.
People who have turned down very lucrative offers,
to tell the inside story of life behind the Neverland gates.
They break their silence for the first time. And not for money.
No-one interviewed for this show received any payment to tell their story.
Their reason for appearing here is to tell the truth as they see it.
The person who has most avoided the glare of the spotlight
was the person who was perhaps the closest to Michael.
The woman who was his wife, and the mother of his first two children Debbie Rowe.
What's happened in the past is that things have been taken out of context, twisted around.
If I can help straighten it out as much as I do not speak about my family, I will
right now.
When I was talking to Prince one day, he said to me that he didn't have a mother.
He said he didn't have a mother?
Yeah, I said, "Prince, where's your mummy?" He said, "I haven't got a mumma."
- That's right. - Did you tell him to say that?
- No. -What do you think he means when he says, "I haven't got a mother?
Like he said, he doesn't have a mother.
My kids don't call me mom because I don't want them to.
They're not - They're Michael's children.
It's not that they're not my children, but I had them because I wanted him to be a father.
I believe that there are people who should be parents and he's one of them.
He's such a fabulous man, and such a good friend,
he's always been there for me, always, from the day I met him.
I could do something for him and this is what I wanted to do.
Most people think that Michael and Debbie's relationship was very short term
Actually, they met over 22 years ago.
Was it intense then? No, no, it was over time.
I think it was, 18 years, 17, 18 years,
that I knew him, when I had Prince.
In that time, they've gone on some very unusual outings
Often with Michael in disguise.
Yeah, he'd call, "What're you doing?" "Nothing, what're you doing?"
"Wanna go to the video?" "Yeah." We'd sneak out without security."
We got caught. Last time, it was like being chased by people.
We'd have to call security, bail us out, but yeah,
we'd go out and do stuff, sneaking into premieres and things.
Yeah, we had a good time. He's always a lot of fun.
When did Michael start talking about wanting to have kids, when he was still with Lisa-Marie?
No, they had broken up.
I was trying to consult him because he was really upset.
He was upset because he really wanted to be a dad.
I said, "So be a dad." He looked at me, puzzled.
"Let me do this, I want to do this.
You've been so good to me, you're such a great friend, please let me do this."
I said, "You need to be a dad. I want to do this."
I "nagged" him into it, if you will.
She's a wonderful person.
She knew that Michael Jackson loves children, and she knew Michael Jackson wanted children.
That's why. She said, "You need to be a daddy."
She said you needed to be a daddy, more than she needed to be a mother?
Yes, and she wanted to do that for me as a present.
And if you're talking about romance, maybe then?
If you want to have a marker,
if that makes you and the rest of America feel that they need a marker,
they can probably use that.
Once Debbie's pregnancy became common knowledge, the tabloid world had one burning question:
Did they, or didn't they?
The first two, Prince and Paris, were from Debbie, which was natural conception.
- You had sex with Debbie? - Yes
I know that's difficult for you to say, because you're so embarrassed,
but you actually had sex with her, you conceived with her? - yes, yes.
Once Debbie learned she was pregnant, Michael warned her of what was to come.
He said, "You don't know what they can do."
I said, "Oh Michael, come on. We're having a baby, normal people have babies.
How can that be weird? We're having a kid.
If anything, that's beautiful, it's wonderful, it's great." Boy was I wrong.
I found out at one point a picture of me pregnant was worth half a million dollars.
To who, and why?
Have they never ever seen someone pregnant before?
Am I supposed to look different pregnant because it's Michael's baby, than someone else?
As you've heard, the decision to have Michael's child was easy for Debbie;
the actual birth was another matter.
We were very excited, Michael was definitely more excited than I was.
He was so excited when we had a contraction.
He was there. We had videos, we had music, you know.
It was long, it was 23 hours.
I had a very colorful language.
Every time I went to say something, he'd cut me off with, "Shoot!" or "Fudge!"
- Oh, he doesn't like cursing? - He didn't think it was necessary when other words would do.
was there the whole time, held my hand, stroked my head.
I think I puked once, and I was so embarrassed and he was like,
"Stop, you're fine, this is beautiful, this is wonderful."
I said, "I'm gonna die!" "No, you're not gonna die! This is great!"
"Ok, we're crowning." Michael's he's right there.
"Oh my God, this is so beautiful."
Yeah, having come from a medical background, there is no way blood and stuff is, there's no way!
It can't be - Sorry, I don't come from that background.
I'm like, "Michael, it can't be that beautiful!" Oh, he was welling up.
Then his son was born, and the look on his face
Talk amongst yourselves.
I've never seen him that happy
and that's what made it wonderful for me, was,
to see the look on his face.
The birth of Prince Michael was soon followed by a sister, Paris.
Yeah, we were kind of told we should wait.
I guess there's a 'suggested waiting time.'
I was flying to Paris, which was how she got her name and that's where she was conceived.
Do you not think, though, that your children would have benefit from contact with their mother?
No, but she doesn't... It's private information.
She doesn't - She can't handle that.
She can't handle her own children?
Yeah, I can't deal with that, because I don't want to make anybody upset.
While Michael may seem reluctant to discuss Debbie's absence from their children,
Debbie had no reluctance whatsoever.
People don't understand that, and
they want a traditional, they think that something has to be traditional.
They have this notion of Beaver Cleaver.
That wasn't the reality in the 50s and that's not reality in the 21st century.
We have a non-traditional family.
If that makes people uncomfortable, then it's a shame that they're not more open.
We are a family unit. Michael and I will always be connected with the kids.
I will always be there for him; I will always be there for the children.
People make remarks, "Oh, I can't believe she left her children."
'Left them'? I 'left' my children? I did not leave my children.
My children are with their father, where they're supposed to be.
She'd prefer them to be with me than with her.
So, this mother carries both children for 9 months in her body
and she gives birth to them and she prefers that they have nothing to do with her?
We split up because I It got to a point where I couldn't deal with it.
I couldn't deal with the fact I couldn't go to the grocery store.
For two reasons, one, I'd get followed, two, I'd have to look at crap on the newsstand
that are right at the register, it should go out, that wasn't true.
I couldn't - I wasn't used to it, I like doing things for myself.
Michael was more than generous, "We don't have to go to the grocery store."
"But, I want to, I really want to.
I want to go back to what I can go back to, that's where I'm used to, that's where I'm comfortable."
Doing this is very uncomfortable for me, talking about these things is extremely uncomfortable for me.
It's hard when you're an entertainer; it's hard to have a marriage.
I mean, one day I'll be married again, but it's too soon.
I already went through two tough divorces.
So, I'm married to my fans, I'm married to God,
I'm married to my children, I'm married to life.
Coming up, the notorious incident that had the whole world talking.
This happened for like two seconds, but when it gets on the news, they slow it down.
Michael's mother reveals what it was like to grow up in the Jackson 5.
Joseph didn't beat them or anything like that; we just disciplined them out of love.
And we find out why Bubbles had to go.
'Cause a chimp, they get to an age like teenage kids do where they want to challenge their parents.
All when we return to:
When Martin Bashir arrived to film Michael and his children,
Bashir was immediately confronted with one of the major worries of celebrity parents;
the horrible danger of kidnapping.
Consequentially, as a security measure, public appearances is by Michael's children
require that their faces be hidden by masks or veils.
If you don't let anyone see the children
I don't want a little burnt baby.
Somebody took Burke's baby, Charleston Burke's baby into the forest and burned them to death.
I don't want that to happen to my children.
Bashir's repeated question fails to establish one important fact; whose idea it was to wear the them
I obviously have some influence, as their faces are still covered.
That was my request, not his.
Michael's very proud of his children, I'm the one who's terrified,
I'm the one who's seen the notes, that someone's gonna take his children.
They're not, they're not, whatever can be done, they're not.
There's nothing more terrifying than looking at a piece of paper that says,
"I'm taking them." I said, "You know what?
I wore a scarf, it was no big deal. Pretend it's Halloween."
I don't want people seeing them; the press can be very mean.
I don't want them to grow up psychologically crazy because of the evil things they can say to them
I want them to be normal. That makes sense, doesn't it? - Yes, it does.
And I'm sure at some point, he will say, you know, to the children,
"Do you want to wear the scarf?"
I will have immediate heart failure, but you know,
he's not gonna make his children do something they don't want to do.
He's not that kind of parent, not at all.
I truly don't see
why everybody is focuses on that.
Is it a fashion statement? Are the scarves not matching? We'll work on it.
While some people may have a hard time with the intense security measures
Michael and his family have to follow, there was one particular occurrence in Germany
that had many people questioning his children's safety.
- No, because - Was there no one in the room who would say, "Michael, don't do it."
My brother and sister were up there. - And they didn't say no?
No, 'cause I was holding the baby strong, hard, tight
- Now, that's exactly what I'm saying, though. - I know better
And I've seen people that flip their kids up in the air, do somersaults, and catch them.
I get caught in the moment, I was holding on tight. Just, you know, give a wave
Listen, it happened for like two seconds, but when it gets on the news,
they slow it down, they don't show the crowd.
They make it seem like I'm just a centric idiot dangling his baby over a balcony like a nut.
I think that the media took it and ran like they do everything else.
Like, "OH MY GOD! OH MY GOD!" He's not dropping a baby, please!
They blew it up into something it's not.
- That was so misunderstood. - Explain it, what don't we know about it,
what should we know about him we don't know.
- Alright, I'll tell you from the very beginning. - Good.
He had such a grip on that child and if you look at it again,
he's got that child so tightly held under the armpit.
We're showing it now. Yeah, he is, got him pretty tight under his arm.
Coverage was up there, security was up there, other people.
I took my other children up there and did the same thing
Like I said before, he is very proud of his children.
To listen to his fans, all night long, they're so adoring and so loving and loyal.
They'll be there all night and they wanted to see the little ones, and he showed them the little ones
Nothing inappropriate! It may not have been the best thing he's ever done in his life,
but certainly I think it was made too big a deal of.
- Even now you're happy that You dangled him over it. - Yeah
Not happy that I dangled him over the balcony, but I let the kids wave to them.
In spite of his admission that he was not happy about the incident,
it still did not seem as troubling to Michael as it did to people around the world.
A point Martin Bashir made both in his TV special
and in his comments on Primetime Thursday after the show aired.
What he said about Michael's parenting skills in the footage that was not aired,
appears to paint an extremely different picture.
We must stress, what you are about to see and hear happened during Bashir's final interview
with Michael, long after the incident with the baby on the Berlin hotel balcony.
I love them.
Thank you so much.
And every body who comes into contact with you knows that.
I'm crazy about them, I would die for them
I'm crazy about them, and I tell them. I look into their eyes every day,
I make sure I do that, I say, "Look at me, I love you very much."
What they actually say to you is that they love you, and you say,
"I love you more." That's what you say, every single time
That's your phrase and I've heard it once, I've heard it a million times.
Yeah, and um, they say such sweet things sometime.
I don't tell them to say it. They say it all the time.
Like, Prince looks up to me and say, "Daddy, thank you for giving me a brother."
All the time! You know, Paris will say that too, "Thank you for giving us a brother."
You know, and they - I would like to have more children.
You know, if he called me tonight and said, "Let's have five more,"
in a heartbeat. -You would do it again, if he asked you? -in a heartbeat.
Now, what could have persuaded one of the world's most reclusive superstars to grant an interview
and a camera crew entrance into his life?
Now according to Jackson, it was to answer many of the important questions,
the tabloids and fans have been speculating about for years.
As you've seen, not all of those important answers made it on the air.
As for the not-so-earthshaking ones?
They were edited out, too. Like, the whereabouts of Jackson's former constant companion.
- Where is Bubbles now? - Bubbles is
He's with a caretaker with 40 to 50 other chimps,
because chimps, they get to an age, like teenage kids do, where they want to challenge their parents.
Like, if your father tell you to do something, you go, "Why? Why do I have to do it, Dad?"
" Chimps are very much like that, too; they can become dangerous in a way.
If they get angry with you and decide to take you on, it's no match,
I mean, they're very, very strong. They can take your finger off,they're very powerful.
But how Bubbles was living at Neverland,
Bubbles, the other animals, and Michael were virtually inseparable.
Many people made fun of me with my animals.
If I come home from a hard day at the studio,and I come home to my deer or my chimps,
and I can hug them and they don't ask you anything, they don't complain.
They just want a hug and some love, and to get on with it.
You know, "Where's the pizza? Whip up some ice cream." 'Cause the chimps, they love snacks.
They run around, and they help me clean the room, they help me fix up things. They're very
Their DNA is literally identical to ours, if you look in the microscope.
They're amazing. - Chimps would help you clean the house?
Yeah, yeah. They helped me clean up my room, they helped me dust,
they cleaned windows, they flushed the toilet after they used the bathroom
You let the chimps use your own bathroom? - Sure, yeah, of course.
Bubbles would go himself.
He would sit at the table, pick up his spoon and his fork, and he eats.
He was very polite. They're very intelligent.
While in Berlin, with Jackson,
Martin Bashir was invited to accompany Michael and his two children, on a trip to the zoo.
But because someone had evidently tipped off the press,
the paparazzi were out in force, causing chaos,
and a potentially dangerous situation for the Jackson family.
Do you know it took us three and a half hours to get in and out
and we sat four minutes in front of the gorillas; it was chaos, Michael.
Yeah, it was chaos. You filmed it, right? -Yeah. I was in the middle of it; our cameraman fell over.
At one point, Prince got hurt by someone's umbrella. -Yeah, yeah. He did.
Do you really think it was worth the pain of three and a half hours for
four minutes in front of the gorillas?
Well, I'm not a foreseer of events; I'm not a super seer.
It probably kind of looked
I didn't know that was gonna happen like that.
As you've seen and heard from Michael's behind the scenes camera of Bashir's interview,
Bashir seems to express a genuine concern of the welfare of Michael's children
and raises the question as to Michael's apparent lapse of parental judgment.
but what Bashir doesn't include is Michael's explanation
that Michael was informed that the zoo would be closed during his visit.
I go to the zoo all the time and I go usually when they close it down.
They told us that this would be closed down, and they didn't, they left the gates open
when fans and people started pouring in.
What happened was - What the owner said, 'cause I was there what he actually said that his view was
at the end of the normal opening hours, he would have closed the zoo,
and would have just opened it for you and your family, but you decided not to go then,
you wanted to go in the day rather than -That's not true.
Is that not true? - I wouldn't want to go in the day, especially
since I have a problem with the sun.
Well, it was winter in Germany, so it wasn't so -Night time would have been much cooler.
Yeah. Well, wouldn't it have been much better to have gone at night? -Yeah.
So, why didn't you? - I never knew there was the proposal
I thought we had a slot and that was it.
This was just a misunderstanding from the zoo park and Michael's people
they thought the zoo was going to be closed, but it wasn't.
That whole thing wasn't a big deal,I mean he goes through that all the time.
Coming up, Michael's video cameras capture a very revealing moment.
They're so quick to call you strange and weird, but it's like you're forced to be different
Michael's father reacts to Bashir's special.
Well, one of the things I see this man tried to do
he tried to pin something on me where I was real brutal.
What caused the surgery the other special didn't tell you about?
He was so badly burnt on the top on his
The whole top of his head caught fire, right in front of my eyes.
All when we return to
In the past hour, you've seen a British journalist ask some tough questions.
What hurts you mostly? -The lies, the lies, they're complete lies.
And some tougher questions.
You had sex with Debbie? - Yes
- I know that's difficult for you to say, because you're embarrassed -Yes, but we're not on camera.
You're about to hear Michael Jackson's family rally around him, voicing their supports
They can go and talk to these children all they want; they're not going to find anything.
What they need to do is leave him alone.
And voicing their disagreements.
I hear Michael saying that he was "lonely", but back in those days
Michael had his brothers - He had all his brothers to play with.
You've seen Michael's ex-wife come forward for the first time, with expression of emotion.
I've never seen him that happy and that's what made it wonderful for me.
And expressions of strength.
I did not leave my children. My children are with their father, where they're supposed to be.
But most of all, you've seen Michael Jackson's own private cameras catch the good
I think God's out there and is giving us children
The bad
"If you dangle Blanket over a balcony, you are going to be severely criticized."
The strange
You let the chimps use your own bathroom? - Sure, yeah, of course. Bubbles would go himself.
And the strangely human
No, I am Peter Pan. -No, you're Michael Jackson. -I'm Peter Pan, in my heart.
But what you've seen so far is only the beginning of
In addition to revisiting the interviews with Michael Jackson that were contained in the ABC special,
we've also asked members of the Jackson family to comment on the information that the special chose to include.
While the Jacksons are a very supportive family, not all of what they have to say
is in complete agreement with Michael and many of the comments
you'll hear have never been revealed publicly until now.
We tried to get a bubble out of this, the way of being united together
we don't like some of the things that are being said out there,
but when you're number one out there all over the world, you get those kind of pot shots
out there at all times.
You've been so successful and you've amassed so much wealth, you never need to work again.
Yet, you don't seem to enjoy it; it seems that you're restricted somehow.
I enjoy it through my children, I enjoy it - But I'm talking about you, you just don't seem to enjoy it.
Enjoy what? - Enjoy your success, enjoy your wealth.
It's hard to - I can enjoy it behind my gates,but I can't go out and enjoy it,
because it becomes work all over again.
Working has been Michael's life since he was five-years-old.
As we've already seen, missing out on his childhood continues to affect him to this very day.
You often seem very lonely, is that true? - I used to be very lonely, painfully lonely.
You have no idea. I used to walk the streets,
looking for people to talk to.
I hear Michael saying that he was "lonely", but back in those days,
Michael had his brothers - He had all his brothers to play with.
Jermaine: He had all of us.
And those kids that he'd throw all the candy around, he'd buy so much candy and kids would be in a circle,
standing around in a circle.
They all be eating candy off the allowance I had given him,
but one thing he enjoyed was seeing those kids eating that candy He'd be laughing.
you surrounded by your family, by musicians, by people wanting to be your friend?
You were an international superstar. How can you say you have no friends?
'Cause those people spoke to me on a language, on another level that was musical,
was entertainment, but to get away from that, to separate one's self from that
and to try to discover the fun things about life.
When do you feel lonely? -When do I feel lonely?
I mean, I can be, Usually in hotels, and there's thousands of fans chanting there on the street,
it wasn't super bad. I mean, they're chanting that they love you and everything,
you can't get out, you feel trapped inside, and you just cry, you feel lonely, you know?
There's all that love out there, but still, you really do feel trapped and alone and that you can't get out.
If you go to a bookstore, if you go out, if you go to a club , which I don't like clubs.
You know, every book you buy, they wonder,
"Why are you buying this?" "Why is Michael Jackson buying this?"
"Why are you reading this?" Or you go to the club, as soon as you go in there, every song is my song
as if I want to hear my own music.
Everybody starts chanting for me to dance, so it becomes a show all over again,
so you can't go anywhere. Wherever you go, you know?
That's not much of a life, is it? -I know, and it's difficult,
and I don't want to complain like I'm complaining, because it comes with the territory,
but I don't think people understand the other side that comes with it
so quick to call you strange and weird, but it's like like you're forced to be different,
because it's not normal in life.
I can do the normal things; go to the store to buy a piece of bread
a piece of candy or something - He can't do that,
so that would cause you to become a reclusive, to sort of be withdrawn.
Do you not wish that you could sometimes go to the local store
and buy yourself some food and come back later.
Of course! I want to go to the market, like one of those markets
and take one of those carts and throw some food in there, and go down the aisle.
I would love do that -Can you do that?
No, of course not. I tried, and
every The whole place stops.
Everybody's chanting and getting your autograph, and it's hard, it doesn't work.
That's why I love putting on disguises.
One of the disguises Michael would wear in public was from his music video, Ghosts,
a makeup process that would take several hours
and would turn him completely into an unrecognizable, very large, white man.
I'd sit on a bench in DisneyLand, a fantasy.
I would sit there and I remember, I loved it, I learned so much, watching people
studying people's character. That's what I like
I like going inside, and it's the same thing with a performance.
You can tell right away with an artist, you can read it on her face,
when she's dancing, she's counting, "One, and two, and three, and four, and five, and six and?"
You see it, when you, that's the wrong concept for dance; dancing is about feeling
not thinking and when they count, they're thinking.
You should feel, become the bass, become the drums, become the guitars and the strings
and you just become a oneness, you know?
That's very important. That's real.
But, that's Michael Jackson talking as a performer - I love performing.
But that's not -I wish I could sleep on stage.
But that's not Michael Jackson the person.
One of the most compelling and revealing lines of question that Martin Bashir persued
had to do with the strict discipline that Michael and his brothers endured
at the hands of their father.
Unfortunately, this is footage that Mr. Bashir and his producers have not allowed us to show you.
But we can tell you, that it was a very emotional description
of beatings with belts and the cords from irons.
You remember when you said to me that you used to want to run away from your father?
I hated it, I used to hide.
One of the things that I can see this man tried to do he tried to pin something on me
where I was real brutal and raising these guys,Jermaine and all the rest of them
they all got whippin's, they didn't get no beatings.
were disciplined in the way that which he knew, during that time
all children and parents of the type, they whipped their kids.
We had to be in before the lights on at night, and we had to ask for things.
I thought it was great because it allowed us to become what we became,
we never got on drugs, we never got in trouble.
I see the difference for my up-bringing as from when I came to California,
and friends that I went to go to school with, how they would curse their parents out
and slam their door and disrespect them.
Joseph didn't beat them or anything like that we just disciplined them out of love.
The Bible says if you love a child, you will discipline them.
The discussion of the strict discipline and verbal abuse by Michael's father
went on for about eight minutes in Mr. Bashir's finished special.
What he did not include was a short, but very revealing comment from Michael about his father.
He just -- I don't think how he - how much he hurt me with his love
but he's a genius, the man is a genius, the same time he was a genius, he really is.
But Michael, he injured you when you were a child. - Yeah, but look at what came out of it.
Maybe I wouldn't have the affection for kids that I have today, and wanting to help them.
When we return, the police investigation that put Michael on the offensive.
At every opportunity, the media has dissected and manipulated these allegations
to reach their own conclusions.
And Debbie Rowe finally reaches her limit.
I'm tired of the lies; I'm tired of the bullshit
The devastating disease that Michael claims turned him porcelain white.
That I was putting on cream to make myself lighter, and that's not true, I have vitiligo.
And friends of Michael who were forced to leave their home,
all when "..." continues
Without a doubt, one of the most controversial topics of Michael Jackson's
life is his relationship with children.
The scandals and rumors surrounding allegations made against Jackson
are the subject of seemingly speculation.
As we've told you before, Michael Jackson has no editorial control over the content of this program.
What you see and hear is intended to be an unbiased presentation
that allows you to draw your own conclusion.
Some years ago, you yourself were about to embark on a tour and allegations were made about you and children.
What about 1993, what happened, what was Michael Jackson doing? - It's 'cause they don't know me
they don't know. All that was false, I'm a completely innocent guy,
I would never do that. I would slit my wrists before I would hurt a child.
He would never hurt a child, never, it's not in him.
No way, he would never do anything inappropriate with a child
it's the furthest thing from his mind.
When the allegations came in '93, I think it was
devastating. I mean, talk about going for the jugular
At every opportunity, the media has dissected and manipulated these allegations
to reach their own conclusions.
I ask all of you to wait and hear the truth before you label or condemn me.
I watched Michael after they accused him of that child molestation.
At first he was a little lonely and all, but he never stopped
because he knew it wasn't the truth. He never stopped loving children.
Nah, that's what I admire about him, he keeps going, he's not gonna give up
He's gonna still give to all of us, I just know it.
Bashirs will come and go, but Michael will live forever.
Apparently there's some confusion with sleeping in beds.
My favorite thing to do is to sit in bed and watch TV.
If you're coming over, take your shoes off, get on the bed, we're watching TV.
Michael was never indicted of anything, never charged, nothing.
Now, they came in his house, right?
They tore this house apart, they went into my mother's space
They tore it up, they went into my mother's hyper-pressure pills.
I mean, just what were they looking for?
They were trying and trying to get some crap on Michael that was not true.
What hurts you mostly? - When they lie, the lies, the complete lies.
It hurts me because I know there are children out there who has to hear that crap.
Why are there people do that when all you've done is brought some of the most beautiful music
the most beautiful popular music that many of us have ever heard?
Why do people want to judge you if you've done, what you've done has been an artist?
Cause of the success, people become jealous.
It hurts to be misunderstood, no matter how much you try to put people on track
there will still be some judgment, and it's sad, so far from the truth.
Following the broadcast of Mr. Bashir's special, the speculation about what
went on in Jackson's private life was once again headline news.
Primarily due to the story of Gavin, a young man who had reportedly been dying of cancer.
Gavin was somebody who was diagnosed with cancer.
Doctors gave them, I think, three weeks or one month to live.
One of his last wishes was to meet Michael, a request fulfilled through
Los Angeles business man, Jamie Masada.
Then he said to me, he said under his breath, "I want to meet Michael Jackson."
At that point, I didn't know Michael Jackson, I just came out of the room, I start crying
I didn't know what to do.
I called Neverland, I said, "Is anyway you can get a chance to call the kid?"
Then I come in next day, and I see Gavin have a little smile on his face.
I said, "Gavin, what's going on?" He said, "Michael call me."
Gavin and his family formed an immediate bond with Jackson, creating an atmosphere
that many believe played a large role in Gavin's recovery.
You know, two and a half years ago, they said, "Two more weeks, he's dead." Now he's alive.
His appearance on the Bashir special showed a seemingly happy and healthy young man,
clearly, very fond of Jackson.
While Mr. Bashir did touch on Gavin's amazing recovery, many believed
that the real focus was on Michael's relationship with the young man
especially the revelation that they had spent the night in the same room.
The thing that is upset me right now reason why I'm giving you this interview
is because Gavin call me, he was crying on the phone.
He went in gas station, the kid in gas station, they start kidding,
"Oh you are the kid who doing this with Michael. You slept with Michael."
It's horrible to do to a kid. This kid been through horrible life, been through horrible life so far.
Since Mr. Bashir's documentary aired, Gavin and his mother have gone into
seclusion after being bombarded by requests for interviews from tabloids around the world.
This statement released to the press by Gavin's mother says,
"I am appalled at the way my son has been exploited by Martin Bashir.
The relationship that Michael has with my three children is a beautiful,
loving, father, sons, and daughter one.
To my children and me, Michael is part of our family."
In addition, she is considering action against Mr. Bashir for including Gavin
in his special without parental consent.
I can only take the lies for so long and I've reached my limit
and that's why I'm doing this.
I'm not here to defend my boss; I'm here to tell the truth.
I didn't really know how you behaved with the people who come to the
ranch and who come to your home, I hadn't seen it.
You were the most generous person,
but I looked around here yesterday, and some of the people really appreciated it,
but others were greedy, others couldn't help themselves. Do you sometimes despair of human nature?
Yes.
One of the topics repeatedly brought up in Martin Bashir's interviews is
the same one that has been the subject of speculation by countless tabloids, talk shows,
and comic monologues for over 20 years: Michael Jackson's changing appearance.
Having surgery or changes or whatever, cosmetic surgery, or anything like that.
People have that sort of thing in this country all the time.
All the time. -People go on a weekly basis to have things changed.
All the time, and most celebrities, most movie stars. -So why is it such an issue that you do that?
The fact that they say that I've had
Like I'm overly obsessed with it, it's not true, that's not
The things they said are not true. I haven't had my eyes done, I haven't had my cheekbones done,
I haven't had my lips done, I haven't had my chin done. That's a lie, they just go too far.
In the final interview, eight months later, Martin Bashir is still
doubled pursuing rumors of Michael's plastic surgery.
I look fine? - You look fine! I'm the one who looks stinky.
That's nice, Michael. -But you don't look stinky.
An area of his life, he feels Michael had been less than honest about.
You know, you've physically changed, haven't you? The photographs of you if I look at them
No, it's called adolescence, it's called growing and changing.
Yeah, but even the shape of your face has changed. - No, it has not
I had no plastic surgery on my face, just my nose. It helped me breathe better
so I could hit higher notes and help clear up. The press, it's like, they add up all this stuff,
nothing put there in my eyes, cheekbones, chin, nothing, they made it all up.
Do you think that people do go too far with plastic surgery, generally?
Well it's for them. - So why are you so defensive when people say like,
"Mick Jagger's had one, Paul McCartney may have had one. Oh, Michael Jackson's had one!"
They don't do it that way. - What are they do it?
They just pick on me like I'm the only one that does it. That's why.
So if people said, "Well, actually Michael's the same as everyone else,"
then it wouldn't upset you so much? - Yeah. It wouldn't upset me so much.
I mean, if you want to have a facelift, you have a facelift. - Yeah, if it makes you happy.
Regardless of your opinion about the extent of Michael's plastic surgery,
one fact is clear, Martin Bashir's TV special made only passing reference
to one of the most noticeable differences in Michael's appearance.
Bashir was quoted as saying, "When Michael Jackson was a boy, he was a black kid.
Now as an adult, he looks like a white man."
Which was a rumor; they said I was putting on cream to make myself lighter.
That's not true, I have vitiligo. - You have a condition.
Vitiligo is a medical condition that Jackson claims has afflicted him for more than 20 years.
This disfiguring skin disease affects nearly 2% of the world's population and strips
all pigmentation from the skin. The result is not just pale, but porcelain white.
In the beginning, when the vitiligo happened, started happening relatively early.
He even was trying to hide it from me. He tried to hide it for quite a while.
You know, always trying to cover it with makeup, even out his skin tone.
Until, it just got so extensive, I mean it's all over his body.
We were always trying to hide it and cover it for the longest time until, he just had to tell Oprah
and tell the world, "Listen, I'm not trying to be white, I have a skin disease."
The loss of pigment exposes vitiligo sufferers to great risk of skin cancer,
requiring constant shade from the sun and thick makeup or sun block to lessen the exposure.
You know, in the beginning, I tried to cover the light spots to the darkest part of his skin,
but then it became so extensive that we had to go with the lighter part of the skin,
'cause his whole body was reacting. He would have to be in full body makeup, every inch of his body.
It was easier to make the transition to him being to the lighter shade that he is.
For Michael, one of the most painful side-affects of vitiligo is the reminder of the earlier
skin trauma that humiliated him as a child.
You talked about, how when you went through adolescence, you had a terrible time.
In fact, I had a look at some pictures of you during that period, and you did have a lot of spots.
Yeah, yeah.
Being shy about it, I am and was, but even worse then.
Terribly embarrassed, it's like a disease.
Perhaps the most startling omission regarding Michael's history with plastic surgery,
came during a discussion of the procedures that Michael admits to having.
You're saying you've only had one piece of surgery on your nose? - Two.
You've had two? - As I can remember.
This is where the TV show stops, but had they included Michael's answer from just 10 seconds earlier,
they would have allowed him to remind us of a serious injury that severely affected his appearance.
No, no, no. I was severely burned. - Yeah, but apart from having that surgery because of obviously
injury from the fire.
January 27th, 1984, Michael was shooting a commercial that attempted to duplicate a concert performance.
During the last take, a planned pyrotechnic explosion went wrong and ignited Michael's hair on fire.
He was so badly burnt on the top of - He was - His whole top of the head caught on fire,
right in front of my eyes. I couldn't do anything about it, I couldn't get to him on time.
Miko, Marlon Brando's son, was able to push away the barricades and jump on him,
and put out the fire with his bare hands.
He will have nursing and medical personnel on call 24 hours a day.
Due to his very excellent health and his very strong personal and religious commitments,
he will have as excellent of a recovery as is possible.
Michael was rushed to the hospital, where he was treated for second and third degree burns.
He later underwent skin graph surgery in an attempt to repair the damage.
But as we noted, as severe as this incident was, it was completely ignored by Bashir.
You did nothing to your cheeks? - Uh, no, no! These cheek bones?
Yeah. - No!
You haven't had any inserts. - No.
My father had
What about your eaten food - I would be idiot if I had
Can we get on with this plastic surgery garbage? This is tabloid stuff.
You are beyond this, you're a respected journalist. - I know, the problem is
When we return, we'll take a look at some of the answers that were never heard.
They call me weird overnight, strange, whacko, you know,
they said I'm a girl, homosexual, "He wants to buy the Elephant Man's Bones",
"He sleeps in a hyperbaric chamber." None of that stuff is true!
And some of the differences in opinion.
So you're happy you did it now? - Yeah because I shared
Even though you've been attacked
people in America say you shouldn't look after the children? - They're wrong, they're wrong.
A lot of people said, "Leave him alone, shut the hell up." A lot of people.
All caught on Michael Jackson's own camera.
When we return to
One of the basic qualities of respected journalism is objectivity.
As you may have heard in several recent news stories one of Michael Jackson's prime
complaints about the reporting featured in Martin Bashir's documentary and subsequent interviews
was his lack of objectivity. As we've already seen, some of Mr. Bashir's comments
that made the air appeared to be quite different than opinions he expressed in
Jackson's behind the scenes footage.
About Michael's ranch? Mr. Bashir's on-air comment was,
But what he said behind the scenes was this,
This comment about Michael's method of raising children was included on Bashir's special,
But this was not,
I love them.
Another of Jackson's complaints about the document is the non-inclusion of certain statements
that he feels are pertinent to objective reporting. Like when Bashir devoted almost eight minutes
to the abuse by Michael's father.
You remember when you said to me that you used to want to run away from your father?
I hated it, I used to hide.
But did not include this short and revealing comment.
He hurt me with his love, but he's a genius, the man is a genius,
On Michael's taking his children to the zoo, Bashir says,
What you don't hear is Michael's response.
I go to the zoo all the time and I go usually when they close it down.
They told us that this would be closed down.
And as far as probing for the truth about Michael's changing appearance,
the subject about vitiligo was virtually ignored.
And the severe burns, the reconstructive surgery, were never mentioned at all.
Can we get on with this plastic surgery garbage? This is tabloid stuff. You are beyond this.
Regardless of whether you feel that Michael Jackson is correct in his assertion
that Martin Bashir's documentary was not a true representation of the interviews
that actually took place, there is one question that many people share.
How could Michael Jackson, a 44-year-old man, who has spent most of his life in
the spotlight, have allowed himself to open up to a virtual stranger?
This footage from Michael's camera may give you a better understanding.
It seems to me that through history, people they really want to make someone big
and they want to be, "Oh this person is so talented, and we have to make them godlike,
and they have to be perfect." Then as soon as they're there, they get more joy in tearing someone down.
That whole special was just an attempt to tear him apart and he trusted Martin Bashir.
They took this thing back to the studio and they took a lot of things out.
The way this thing was narrated was just not fair.
have you and I spent the last eight months never hearing that?
I don't know, you tell me. I'm always continuously
They want to make you act as if you're crazy.
And then slowly he started bringing in his own opinion into the picture.
As a reporter, as news, I like to see the truth, then I'll decide what my take would be on it.
Oh my gosh, yeah. - It's not just you though, you can see that.
Bashir's will come and go, but Michael will live forever, in everybody's hearts.
If indeed this video or whatever it was that was shot, is supposed to be about Michael,
then it will show him as a caring, loving, understanding, father,
person, human being,
because that's what he is.
matter what you may feel about what you've seen on this program, it's hard to deny,
that Michael Jackson is a complex and controversial subject who elicits a passionate
response from virtually everyone who comes in contact with him, whether through
his music or through his private life.
In the past two hours, our only goal has been to present an objective
view of events showing them as they actually occurred, and allowing you to draw your own conclusion.
But we do feel it's appropriate to leave you with one more piece of information. Mr. Bashir is quoted as saying.
This comes from an interview dated just a few days ago.
Thanks for joining us everyone, I'm Maury Povich, good night.
Do you sometimes despair of human nature?
Yes.
Yes, of course. - I mean, can you ever do anything that's right?
No, no, no, no, no.
No matter what you do, there's always somebody that will say something about it. They have their
They're opinionated, you know? No matter what you do.
No matter how good your intentions are, there's always some jerk,
some mean spirited person trying to bring you down.
All you wanted to do was bring some love and some joy, that's all.
Grenada who made "Living With Michael Jackson" program originally broadcast on ATV
maintain that it was not fair and balanced portrait of Michael Jackson and stands by it.