Placeholder Image

字幕列表 影片播放

  • Translator: Joseph Geni Reviewer: Morton Bast

    很久以前,世界就像是一個大且運作不良的家庭。

  • Once upon a time, the world was a big, dysfunctional family.

    由一對強而有力的父母經營,

  • It was run by the great and powerful parents,

    而人們是無助

  • and the people were helpless

    且不懷抱希望的調皮小孩。

  • and hopeless naughty children.

    如果有比較吵鬧的小孩

  • If any of the more rowdier children questioned

    質疑父母的權威,他們會被責罵。

  • the authority of the parents, they were scolded.

    如果他們跑到父母的房間裡探險,

  • If they went exploring into the parents' rooms,

    或者甚至跑到隱密的檔案室內,他們會被處罰,

  • or even into the secret filing cabinets, they were punished,

    且被提醒為了他們好,

  • and told that for their own good

    他們絕對不能再走進去。

  • they must never go in there again.

    有一天,一個男人到鎮上來,

  • Then one day, a man came to town

    帶著從父母的房間裡偷來的

  • with boxes and boxes of secret documents

    裝著秘密檔案的好幾個箱子。

  • stolen from the parents' rooms.

    「看他們一直對你們隱瞞的是什麼」他說。

  • "Look what they've been hiding from you," he said.

    小孩們看了感到很驚奇。

  • The children looked and were amazed.

    這些是他們父母彼此怒罵過程的

  • There were maps and minutes from meetings

    圖像和會議記錄。

  • where the parents were slagging each other off.

    他們的舉止就像小孩。

  • They behaved just like the children.

    而且他們也會犯錯,就像小孩一樣。

  • And they made mistakes, too, just like the children.

    唯一的差異是,他們的錯誤

  • The only difference was, their mistakes

    放在秘密資料庫內。

  • were in the secret filing cabinets.

    鎮上有一個女孩,她不認為

  • Well, there was a girl in the town, and she didn't think

    這些資料應該放在秘密資料庫內,

  • they should be in the secret filing cabinets,

    就算放在那裡,應該要有條法律

  • or if they were, there ought to be a law

    允許小孩們能取得資料。

  • to allow the children access.

    所以她打算要這麼做。

  • And so she set about to make it so.

    我就是故事中的女孩,而我感興趣的秘密文件

  • Well, I'm the girl in that story, and the secret documents

    就位於這座建築物中,

  • that I was interested in were located in this building,

    也就是英國國會大廈,我要取得的資料

  • the British Parliament, and the data that I wanted

    是國會議員的

  • to get my hands on were the expense receipts

    開支收據。

  • of members of Parliament.

    我想這是民主社會中要問的基本問題。(掌聲)

  • I thought this was a basic question to ask in a democracy. (Applause)

    我不是在問核子避難所的密碼,

  • It wasn't like I was asking for the code to a nuclear bunker,

    或者那類的事情,但我出自於尋求資訊的自由

  • or anything like that, but the amount of resistance I got

    而遭遇到的種種阻力

  • from this Freedom of Information request,

    會讓人以為我在問那種機密的問題。

  • you would have thought I'd asked something like this.

    於是我花了大概五年在爭取,

  • So I fought for about five years doing this,

    而這只是我所提的好幾百個請求中的一個。

  • and it was one of many hundreds of requests that I made,

    事實上,我的本意不是要

  • not -- I didn't -- Hey, look, I didn't set out, honestly,

    徹底改革英國國會。

  • to revolutionize the British Parliament.

    那不是我的原本企圖,我只是為我第一本書的研究

  • That was not my intention. I was just making these requests

    提了這些請求。

  • as part of research for my first book.

    但卻演變成冗長,拖延的法律戰,

  • But it ended up in this very long, protracted legal battle

    於是過了五年跟國會抗戰後

  • and there I was after five years fighting against Parliament

    我站在英國最有名望的三位高等法院法官前,

  • in front of three of Britain's most eminent High Court judges

    等待他們裁定國會是否必須釋出這些資料。

  • waiting for their ruling about whether or not Parliament had to release this data.

    我必須誠實以告,當時我沒抱什麼希望。

  • And I've got to tell you, I wasn't that hopeful,

    因為我已經見識過這些機關組織。我心想,

  • because I'd seen the establishment. I thought,

    他們會聯合起來。我沒那麼幸運。

  • it always sticks together. I am out of luck.

    猜猜看?我贏了。萬歲。(掌聲)

  • Well, guess what? I won. Hooray. (Applause)

    但故事不是到此結束,因為問題是

  • Well, that's not exactly the story, because the problem was

    國會一再拖延釋出資料的時間,

  • that Parliament delayed and delayed releasing that data,

    接著他們試著回顧性地改變法律

  • and then they tried to retrospectively change the law

    以致於法律不適用於他們。

  • so that it would no longer apply to them.

    他們較早前通過的透明法適用於其他所有人,

  • The transparency law they'd passed earlier that applied to everybody else,

    但他們試著保存這法律以致於他們能置身事外。

  • they tried to keep it so it didn't apply to them.

    他們沒想到的是數位化,

  • What they hadn't counted on was digitization,

    因為這代表著所有紙張收據

  • because that meant that all those paper receipts

    都經過電子掃描存檔,於是若有人要

  • had been scanned in electronically, and it was very easy

    複製整個資料檔,這是易如反掌的事,

  • for somebody to just copy that entire database,

    插入一個磁碟,資料就流到國會外了,

  • put it on a disk, and then just saunter outside of Parliament,

    有人確實這麼做了,接著他們將磁碟

  • which they did, and then they shopped that disk

    賣給出價最高的競標者,也就是《每日電訊報》,

  • to the highest bidder, which was the Daily Telegraph,

    於是,你也都記得,接下來持續好幾周的披露,

  • and then, you all remember, there was weeks and weeks

    什麼都有,從色情電影

  • of revelations, everything from porn movies

    浴缸塞和新的廚房

  • and bath plugs and new kitchens

    還有從來沒有付清的貸款。

  • and mortgages that had never been paid off.

    結果是六個大臣辭職,

  • The end result was six ministers resigned,

    300年以來,第一個下議院議長被強迫辭職,

  • the first speaker of the house in 300 years was forced to resign,

    根據透明化的指令,一個新政府被推選成立了,

  • a new government was elected on a mandate of transparency,

    120個國會議員在此選舉中下台,

  • 120 MPs stepped down at that election,

    截至目前為止,四個國會議員和兩個上議院議員

  • and so far, four MPs and two lords

    因詐欺被而坐牢。

  • have done jail time for fraud.

    謝謝。(掌聲)

  • So, thank you. (Applause)

    我講這個故事是因為這並不只發生在英國。

  • Well, I tell you that story because it wasn't unique to Britain.

    這是文化衝突的例子,

  • It was an example of a culture clash that's happening

    發生在全世界戴假髮和穿襪子的官員身上,

  • all over the world between bewigged and bestockinged

    他們認為他們可以統治我們

  • officials who think that they can rule over us

    而不用受到大眾的窺探,

  • without very much prying from the public,

    接著突然間受到不滿於此種安排的

  • and then suddenly confronted with a public

    社會大眾對質,

  • who is no longer content with that arrangement,

    社會大眾不只是不滿足現狀,更常見地,

  • and not only not content with it, now, more often,

    還有官方資料當靠山。

  • armed with official data itself.

    於是我們進入資訊民主化的時代,

  • So we are moving to this democratization of information,

    而我已經在這領域有一段時間。

  • and I've been in this field for quite a while.

    有點難為情的自白:當我還是個孩子的時候,

  • Slightly embarrassing admission: Even when I was a kid,

    我有小本的間諜筆記本,我所做的是

  • I used to have these little spy books, and I would, like,

    看在我家附近每個人在做什麼,記錄下來。

  • see what everybody was doing in my neighborhood and log it down.

    我想那是我未來選擇

  • I think that was a pretty good indication

    作為一個調查型記者的好指標,

  • about my future career as an investigative journalist,

    而我在這個要取得資訊的領域待了這麼久,所看到的是

  • and what I've seen from being in this access to information field for so long

    過去大家為的是利基利益,

  • is that it used to be quite a niche interest,

    現在這已經成為主流。全世界裡,愈來愈多人

  • and it's gone mainstream. Everybody, increasingly, around the world,

    想要知道有權力的人在做什麼。

  • wants to know about what people in power are doing.

    對於以他們之名和花他們金錢下所做的決定, 他們有權表達意見。

  • They want a say in decisions that are made in their name

    我認為資訊民主化

  • and with their money. It's this democratization of information

    就像是資訊的啟蒙期,

  • that I think is an information enlightenment,

    它跟第一個啟蒙時代有很多相同的原則。

  • and it has many of the same principles of the first Enlightenment.

    都是要尋找真相,

  • It's about searching for the truth,

    不是因為有人說那是真的,「因為我這麼說。」

  • not because somebody says it's true, "because I say so."

    不是的,而是根據你所看到的,

  • No, it's about trying to find the truth based on

    還有可以被驗證的,來試圖找出真相。

  • what you can see and what can be tested.

    在第一個啟蒙時代,這點引發種種問題,

  • That, in the first Enlightenment, led to questions about

    像是國王的權利,國王統治人民的神聖正當性,

  • the right of kings, the divine right of kings to rule over people,

    或者女性應該順從男性,

  • or that women should be subordinate to men,

    或者教會是上帝的官方語言。

  • or that the Church was the official word of God.

    顯然教會不樂見此情形,

  • Obviously the Church weren't very happy about this,

    於是他們試著壓制它,

  • and they tried to suppress it,

    但他們沒想到的是科技,

  • but what they hadn't counted on was technology,

    接著報紙印刷出現了,

  • and then they had the printing press, which suddenly

    突然間這些想法可以很便宜地散播出去,又遠又快,

  • enabled these ideas to spread cheaply, far and fast,

    於是人們會聚集在咖啡店,

  • and people would come together in coffee houses,

    討論這些想法,策畫革命。

  • discuss the ideas, plot revolution.

    在我們的時代,我們有數位化。 刪減了資訊的實體體積,

  • In our day, we have digitization. That strips all the physical mass out of information,

    所以現在複製和分享資訊幾乎是不需要成本的。

  • so now it's almost zero cost to copy and share information.

    我們的報紙印刷是網際網路, 我們的咖啡店是社群網路。

  • Our printing press is the Internet. Our coffee houses are social networks.

    我們進入我所認為的一個完整連接的系統,

  • We're moving to what I would think of as a fully connected system,

    在這個系統內,我們可以作全球的決定,

  • and we have global decisions to make in this system,

    關於氣候、關於財政系統、

  • decisions about climate, about finance systems,

    關於資源等的決定。仔細想想 --

  • about resources. And think about it --

    如果我們要做買房子的重大決定,

  • if we want to make an important decision about buying a house,

    我們不會一次決定。我不清楚你們會怎麼做,

  • we don't just go off. I mean, I don't know about you,

    但在我花了這麼多錢之前,我會去看很多房子。

  • but I want to see a lot of houses before I put that much money into it.

    如果我們想到一個財政系統,

  • And if we're thinking about a finance system,

    我們需要吸收很多的資訊。

  • we need a lot of information to take in. It's just not possible

    一個人不可能吸收這麼大量的資訊,

  • for one person to take in the amount, the volume

    進行分析而下對決定。

  • of information, and analyze it to make good decisions.

    這也是為什麼我們可看到日漸增加的

  • So that's why we're seeing increasingly this demand

    取得資訊的需求。

  • for access to information.

    這也是為什麼我們開始看到愈來愈多的

  • That's why we're starting to see more disclosure laws

    揭露法出現,舉例來說,在環境方面,

  • come out, so for example, on the environment,

    有奧胡斯公約,

  • there's the Aarhus Convention,

    這是一個歐洲的指令,賦予人們強烈的

  • which is a European directive that gives people

    可得知的權力,於是如果你的自來水公司

  • a very strong right to know, so if your water company

    將汙水排放到你的河流裡,

  • is dumping water into your river, sewage water

    你有知道的權力。

  • into your river, you have a right to know about it.

    在金融業裡,你絕對有權力

  • In the finance industry, you now have more of a right

    知道目前發生什麼事,於是我們有

  • to know about what's going on, so we have

    不同的反賄絡法,金錢管制,

  • different anti-bribery laws, money regulations,

    增加的企業揭露,所以現在你可以跨界追蹤資產。

  • increased corporate disclosure, so you can now track assets across borders.

    而且要隱藏資產,避稅,支付不平等工資都日漸困難。

  • And it's getting harder to hide assets, tax avoidance,

    這很棒。我們正開始要在這些系統中

  • pay inequality. So that's great. We're starting to find out

    挖掘愈來愈多的東西。

  • more and more about these systems.

    而且這些都往中央系統移動,

  • And they're all moving to this central system,

    這個完全連接的系統,

  • this fully connected system,

    只缺了一個就完整了。你猜得到是哪一個嗎?

  • all of them except one. Can you guess which one?

    它是所有其它的系統的基礎。

  • It's the system which underpins all these other systems.

    是我們組織且操用權力的根據,

  • It's the system by which we organize and exercise power,

    我指的是政治,因為在政治方面,

  • and there I'm talking about politics, because in politics,

    我們回歸到這個系統,這個綜合的等級制度。

  • we're back to this system, this top-down hierarchy.

    於是需要在此系統中的大量資訊,

  • And how is it possible that the volume of information

    怎麼有可能會被分析呢?

  • can be processed that needs to in this system?

    嗯,答案就是不可能。就是如此。

  • Well, it just can't. That's it.

    我認為這是大量隱藏在我們現有不同政府的

  • And I think this is largely what's behind the crisis

    合法性的危機底下。

  • of legitimacy in our different governments right now.

    我已經跟你們分享一些我做過的事,

  • So I've told you a bit about what I did

    無所不用其極地想把國會帶進

  • to try and drag Parliament, kicking and screaming,

    21世紀,我要再說兩個

  • into the 21st century, and I'm just going to give you

    其他我認識的人正在做的事

  • a couple of examples of what a few other people I know

    的例子。

  • are doing.

    有的名叫 Seb Bacon 的人。他是個電腦程式

  • So this is a guy called Seb Bacon. He's a computer

    設計師,他架了一個叫做 Alaveteli 的網站,

  • programmer, and he built a site called Alaveteli,

    這網站是一個資訊自由的平台。

  • and what it is, it's a Freedom of Information platform.

    它是開放原始碼的,有文件資料,

  • It's open-source, with documentation, and it allows you

    且允許人們提出資訊自由的請求,

  • to make a Freedom of Information request,

    詢問相關大眾一個問題,

  • to ask your public body a question, so

    它把所有的麻煩都刪去,我跟你保證

  • it takes all the hassle out of it, and I can tell you

    提出這些請求就是有很多麻煩,

  • that there is a lot of hassle making these requests,

    它把麻煩省了,而你所做的只是輸入你的問題,

  • so it takes all of that hassle out, and you just type in your question,

    舉例來說,多少警察有犯罪前科?

  • for example, how many police officers have a criminal record?

    網站會將問題轉移到合適的人身上,

  • It zooms it off to the appropriate person, it tells you

    當期限快到的時候,你會被網站告知,網站也會持續

  • when the time limit is coming to an end, it keeps track of all

    追蹤所有的相關通信資訊,將資訊發布在網站上,

  • the correspondence, it posts it up there,

    變成大眾知識的檔案庫。

  • and it becomes an archive of public knowledge.

    因為這網站是開放原始碼的,它可被應用在

  • So that's open-source and it can be used in any country

    任何有資訊自由法的國家。

  • where there is some kind of Freedom of Information law.

    這裡有一張列出擁有資訊自由法的各個不同的國家清單,

  • So there's a list there of the different countries that have it,

    還有幾個國家正要加入。

  • and then there's a few more coming on board.

    如果你們當中有人欣賞這個想法

  • So if any of you out there like the sound of that

    且在你們的國家也有類似的法律,

  • and have a law like that in your country,

    我想 Seb 會很開心你和他聯絡,

  • I know that Seb would love to hear from you

    一起合作將網站推廣到你的國家。

  • about collaborating and getting that into your country.

    這是 Birgitta Jónsdóttir 。她是冰島的國會議員。

  • This is Birgittansdóttir. She's an Icelandic MP.

    可說是位相當不尋常的國會議員。在冰島,

  • And quite an unusual MP. In Iceland, she was

    當國家的經濟崩裂時,

  • one of the protesters who was outside of Parliament

    她是站在國會外的抗議群眾之一,

  • when the country's economy collapsed,

    接著她被選為改革的代表,

  • and then she was elected on a reform mandate,

    現在她是這個企劃的先鋒部隊。

  • and she's now spearheading this project.

    此企劃就是冰島現代傳媒倡議,

  • It's the Icelandic Modern Media Initiative,

    而且他們剛取得資金可以將它推廣成

  • and they've just got funding to make it an international

    國際的現代傳媒企劃,也就是吸取

  • modern media project, and this is taking all of the best laws

    世界上最好的法律,包括表達的自由,

  • around the world about freedom of expression,

    保護告密者,不受毀謗的防護,

  • protection of whistleblowers, protection from libel,

    來源防護,還有嘗試將冰島變成一個發布消息的避難所。

  • source protection, and trying to make Iceland a publishing haven.

    在那裏你的資訊可以自由,

  • It's a place where your data can be free, so when we think

    當我們愈來愈常想到政府多麼想要取得使用者資訊,

  • about, increasingly, how governments want to access user data,

    在冰島他們正在做的是建造一個可能成真的

  • what they're trying to do in Iceland is make this safe haven

    安全避難所。

  • where it can happen.

    在我所從事的調查型新聞領域,

  • In my own field of investigative journalism, we're also

    我們也必須有全球型思維,於是有個叫作

  • having to start thinking globally, so this is a site called

    調查儀表版的網站。如果你要查詢

  • Investigative Dashboard. And if you're trying to track

    一個獨裁者的資產,舉例來說, Hosni Mubarak ,

  • a dictator's assets, for example, Hosni Mubarak,

    你也知道,當他知道他身陷麻煩,

  • you know, he's just funneling out cash from his country

    他將錢從他的國家流出去,而你要調查時,

  • when he knows he's in trouble, and what you want to do

    你必需竭盡所能地

  • to investigate that is, you need to have access to

    取得全世界的

  • all of the world's, as many as you can,

    公司的房屋註冊資料庫。

  • companies' house registrations databases.

    所以這是個試著凝聚所有資料庫

  • So this is a website that tries to agglomerate all of those

    到一個網站,所以你可以查詢

  • databases into one place so you can start searching for,

    他的親戚,他的朋友,他的國家安全部門的首長。

  • you know, his relatives, his friends, the head of his security services.

    你可以試著找出他如何將資產

  • You can try and find out how he's moving out assets

    移出國內。

  • from that country.

    但當我們講到影響我們最劇烈的決定,

  • But again, when it comes to the decisions which are

    或許最重要的決定是

  • impacting us the most, perhaps, the most important

    有關戰爭等等,

  • decisions that are being made about war and so forth,

    我們不可能只是個提出資訊自由的請求。

  • again we can't just make a Freedom of Information request.

    這是非常困難的。所以我們仍須依靠

  • It's really difficult. So we're still having to rely on

    不合法的手段或洩漏的消息來取來資訊。

  • illegitimate ways of getting information, through leaks.

    於是當英國《衛報》調查

  • So when the Guardian did this investigation about

    阿富汗戰爭時,他們不能走進

  • the Afghan War, you know, they can't walk into

    國防部門要求取得所有的資訊。

  • the Department of Defense and ask for all the information.

    資訊不可能這樣到手。

  • You know, they're just not going to get it.

    所以資訊來自美國軍人寫下的

  • So this came from leaks of tens of thousands of dispatches

    幾萬則有關阿富汗戰爭的快信中,

  • that were written by American soldiers

    而且被洩露,

  • about the Afghan War, and leaked,

    接著他們才能進行調查。

  • and then they're able to do this investigation.

    另外一個相當大規模的調查是全球外交。

  • Another rather large investigation is around world diplomacy.

    再一次地,這也是全部根據洩露的訊息,

  • Again, this is all based around leaks,

    251,000 份美國外交的越洋電報,我也參與

  • 251,000 U.S. diplomatic cables, and I was involved

    了這件調查,因為我從一個

  • in this investigation because I got this leak

    很不開心的維基解密人員所洩漏的消息中取得資訊,

  • through a leak from a disgruntled WikiLeaker

    結果我到英國《衛報》工作。

  • and ended up going to work at the Guardian.

    所以我可以跟你說取得此洩密的

  • So I can tell you firsthand what it was like to have access

    第一手感覺。我的意思是,感覺非常的奇妙。

  • to this leak. It was amazing. I mean, it was amazing.

    讓我想起《綠野仙蹤》的場景。

  • It reminded me of that scene in "The Wizard of Oz."

    你知道我的意思嗎?當小狗多多

  • Do you know the one I mean? Where the little dog Toto

    跑到巫師旁,巫師後退,

  • runs across to where the wizard [is], and he pulls back,

    多多折回跑到布簾旁,接著 --

  • the dog's pulling back the curtain, and --

    「不要偷瞄布簾,不要看布簾後面那個人。」

  • "Don't look behind the screen. Don't look at the man behind the screen."

    就像這樣,因為你開始看到的是

  • It was just like that, because what you started to see

    全部這些非常高貴的,浮誇的政治家,

  • is that all of these grand statesmen, these very pompous

    他們就跟我們一樣。

  • politicians, they were just like us.

    他們都互相講彼此的壞話。我指的是這些電報

  • They all bitched about each other. I mean, quite gossipy,

    都滿八卦的。但我想我們應該要抓住

  • those cables. Okay, but I thought it was a very important

    一個重點,這些人是跟我們一樣的人類。

  • point for all of us to grasp, these are human beings

    他們沒有特別的權力。

  • just like us. They don't have special powers.

    他們沒有魔法。他們不是我們的父母。

  • They're not magic. They are not our parents.

    除此之外,我發現最令人著迷的是

  • Beyond that, what I found most fascinating

    我在所有不同國家中看到的

  • was the level of endemic corruption that I saw

    每個地方特有的腐敗程度,

  • across all different countries, and particularly centered

    特別是集中在中心權力附近,盜用公眾財產

  • around the heart of power, around public officials

    來提升個人財富的公務員,

  • who were embezzling the public's money

    因為官方機密,

  • for their own personal enrichment, and allowed to do that

    他們可以下手。

  • because of official secrecy.

    我已經提到維基解密,因為有什麼可以比

  • So I've mentioned WikiLeaks, because surely what could be

    發布這些資訊更公開的事?

  • more open than publishing all the material?

    因為這就是 Julian Assange 所做的事。

  • Because that is what Julian Assange did.

    他不滿足於報紙講求安全和合法的

  • He wasn't content with the way the newspapers published it

    發行方式。他將所有資訊釋出。

  • to be safe and legal. He threw it all out there.

    的確最後在阿富汗 容易受傷害的人們被曝光。

  • That did end up with vulnerable people in Afghanistan

    這也代表白俄羅斯獨裁者

  • being exposed. It also meant that the Belarussian dictator

    有了一份方便的名單,列出所在國家內

  • was given a handy list of all the pro-democracy campaigners

    和美國政府接洽過且支持民主的倡導者。

  • in that country who had spoken to the U.S. government.

    這是很激進的開放性嗎?我覺得不是,因為對我而言,

  • Is that radical openness? I say it's not, because for me,

    這代表的不是放棄權力,

  • what it means, it doesn't mean abdicating power,

    責任,可靠性,這其實是代表著擁有權力的夥伴。

  • responsibility, accountability, it's actually being a partner

    這是關於分享責任,

  • with power. It's about sharing responsibility,

    分享責任。還有,

  • sharing accountability. Also, the fact that

    他威脅要告我因為我有他的洩密的這項事實,

  • he threatened to sue me because I got a leak of his leaks,

    我想也這展現了一種值得注意的前後矛盾的意識,

  • I thought that showed a remarkable sort of inconsistency

    老實說。(笑聲)

  • in ideology, to be honest, as well. (Laughs)

    另一件事是權力有令人不可置信的吸引力,

  • The other thing is that power is incredibly seductive,

    所以我想你一定要有兩種真的特質,

  • and you must have two real qualities, I think,

    當你到桌前,當你操縱權力,

  • when you come to the table, when you're dealing

    談論權力,

  • with power, talking about power,

    因為它的誘惑力。

  • because of its seductive capacity.

    你一定要能懷疑和保持謙卑。

  • You've got to have skepticism and humility.

    懷疑,因為你一定要一直挑戰。

  • Skepticism, because you must always be challenging.

    我要看到你剛剛這麼說的原因。那還不夠好。

  • I want to see why do you -- you just say so? That's not good enough.

    我要看到為什麼那是這樣的證據。

  • I want to see the evidence behind why that's so.

    而要謙虛是因為我們都是人類,我們都會犯錯。

  • And humility because we are all human. We all make mistakes.

    如果你不懂得懷疑和謙虛,

  • And if you don't have skepticism and humility,

    改革者和獨裁者之間只有一線之隔,

  • then it's a really short journey to go from reformer

    我想你只要讀過《動物農莊》

  • to autocrat, and I think you only have to read "Animal Farm"

    就能明白權力如何腐蝕人心。

  • to get that message about how power corrupts people.

    那麼解決方案是什麼呢? 我相信是要在法律規定下,

  • So what is the solution? It is, I believe, to embody

    將取得資訊的權力具體化。

  • within the rule of law rights to information.

    當下我們的權力真是令人不可置信地渺小。

  • At the moment our rights are incredibly weak.

    在很多國家,有實行官方機密法,

  • In a lot of countries, we have Official Secrets Acts,

    包括在英國。我們有不為大眾利益著想的

  • including in Britain here. We have an Official Secrets Act

    官方機密法。這代表著發布或者洩漏官方消息

  • with no public interest test. So that means it's a crime,

    是犯罪行為,在很多案例裡,

  • people are punished, quite severely in a lot of cases,

    人們被嚴重地處罰。

  • for publishing or giving away official information.

    試想這樣不是很好嗎?

  • Now wouldn't it be amazing, and really, this is what I want

    我要你們思考的是 如果我們有個官方的揭露法

  • all of you to think about, if we had an Official Disclosure Act

    當官員被發現封鎖或者隱藏了

  • where officials were punished if they were found

    有關大眾利益的消息,

  • to have suppressed or hidden information

    他們會被處罰。

  • that was in the public interest?

    對!這就是我的權力姿勢。(掌聲)(笑聲)

  • So that -- yes. Yes! My power pose. (Applause) (Laughs)

    我希望我們能朝這個方向努力。

  • I would like us to work towards that.

    所以並非全部都是壞消息。我的意思是,

  • So it's not all bad news. I mean, there definitely is

    當然有在進步,但我想我們發現了

  • progress on the line, but I think what we find is that

    當我們愈接近權力中心時,

  • the closer that we get right into the heart of power,

    它變得更模糊和封閉。

  • the more opaque, closed it becomes.

    某一週我聽到

  • So it was only just the other week that I heard London's

    倫敦警察局局長講到

  • Metropolitan Police Commissioner talking about why

    為什麼警察需要取得我們所有的通聯記錄,

  • the police need access to all of our communications,

    不在司法監督下可監視我們,

  • spying on us without any judicial oversight,

    他說這是攸關生死的事情。

  • and he said it was a matter of life and death.

    他真的這麼說,攸關生死的事。

  • He actually said that, it was a matter of life and death.

    沒有證據。他沒有提出任何證據。

  • There was no evidence. He presented no evidence of that.

    就像這樣,「因為我這麼說。

  • It was just, "Because I say so.

    你必須相信我。有信心。」

  • You have to trust me. Take it on faith."

    嗯,我很抱歉,大家,但我們退化到

  • Well, I'm sorry, people, but we are back

    啟蒙時代前的教會中,

  • to the pre-Enlightenment Church,

    所以我們必需抵抗。

  • and we need to fight against that.

    他所提到的英國法律是

  • So he was talking about the law in Britain which is

    通訊資料法,一則相當可恥的立法。

  • the Communications Data Bill, an absolutely outrageous piece of legislation.

    在美國有網路情報分享及保護法。

  • In America, you have the Cyber Intelligence Sharing and Protection Act.

    無人飛機被使來作國土監控。

  • You've got drones now being considered for domestic surveillance.

    有一棟世界最大的監視中心

  • You have the National Security Agency building

    也就是國家安全局。非常龐大 --

  • the world's giantest spy center. It's just this colossal --

    是美國國會大廈的五倍大,

  • it's five times bigger than the U.S. Capitol,

    他們在裡面攔截和分析

  • in which they're going to intercept and analyze

    通聯紀錄、交通和個人資料,

  • communications, traffic and personal data

    試著找出誰是社會中製造麻煩的人。

  • to try and figure out who's the troublemaker in society.

    回到我們原本的故事,

  • Well, to go back to our original story, the parents

    父母受了驚嚇。他們把全部的門都鎖起來。

  • have panicked. They've locked all the doors.

    他們在屋外都裝了 CCTV 監視攝影機。

  • They've kidded out the house with CCTV cameras.

    他們在監控我們。他們挖了一個地下室,

  • They're watching all of us. They've dug a basement,

    而且建造一個監視中心,執行規則系統,

  • and they've built a spy center to try and run algorithms

    找出我們當中誰會找麻煩,

  • and figure out which ones of us are troublesome,

    如果任何人抱怨,我們會因恐怖主義被逮捕。

  • and if any of us complain about that, we're arrested for terrorism.

    這到底是童話故事還是活生生的夢靨呢?

  • Well, is that a fairy tale or a living nightmare?

    有些童話故事有美好結局。有些沒有。

  • Some fairy tales have happy endings. Some don't.

    我想我們都讀過格林童話,

  • I think we've all read the Grimms' fairy tales, which are,

    事實上是非常殘忍的。

  • indeed, very grim.

    但這個世界不是個童話故事,甚至有可能

  • But the world isn't a fairy tale, and it could be more brutal

    比我們願意承認得來的更加殘酷。

  • than we want to acknowledge.

    相同地,世界可以比我們過去被引導而相信得還要好,

  • Equally, it could be better than we've been led to believe,

    但不管是哪個方式,我們必須開始看清事情真相,

  • but either way, we have to start seeing it exactly as it is,

    和所有的問題,因為只有藉著

  • with all of its problems, because it's only by seeing it

    看清所有的問題,我們才能解決它們,

  • with all of its problems that we'll be able to fix them

    且活在一個我們全部都可以過得

  • and live in a world in which we can all be

    更快樂的世界。(笑聲) 謝謝大家。

  • happily ever after. (Laughs) Thank you very much.

    (掌聲)

  • (Applause)

    謝謝。(掌聲)

  • Thank you. (Applause)

Translator: Joseph Geni Reviewer: Morton Bast

很久以前,世界就像是一個大且運作不良的家庭。

字幕與單字

單字即點即查 點擊單字可以查詢單字解釋

B1 中級 中文 TED 資訊 權力 國會 取得 資料

【TED】希瑟-布魯克:我與揭露政府腐敗的戰鬥(Heather Brooke: My battle to expose government corruption)。 (【TED】Heather Brooke: My battle to expose government corruption (Heather Brooke: My battle to expose government corruption))

  • 830 52
    Max Lin 發佈於 2021 年 01 月 14 日
影片單字