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  • Thanks very much.

    謝謝大家

  • I'm not going to beat Gregory with his saxophone for sure, but bear with me.

    我該是比不過葛雷哥里跟他的薩克斯風了,但請忍耐一下

  • This might be - no, it won't be remotely as interesting, as good or entertaining.

    這主題可能-不,可能不會很有趣、很好玩

  • Is there a real you?

    「真實的你存在嗎?」

  • This might seem to you like a very odd question.

    對你來說這可能是個怪問題

  • Because, you might ask,

    因為你會問

  • how do we find the real you,

    怎麼找到真實的你?

  • how do you know what the real you is?

    怎麼知道真實的你是什麼呢?

  • And so forth.

    這類的問題

  • But the idea that there must be a real you,

    但確實有個真實之你的信念

  • surely that's obvious.

    想必還是那麼地直觀

  • If there's anything real in the world, it's you.

    若這世界有什麼是真實的,那就是你了

  • Well, I'm not quite sure.

    說真的,我倒不是那麼肯定

  • At least we have to understand a bit better what that means.

    至少我們該更了解一下它的意思

  • Now certainly, I think there are lots of things in our culture around us

    當然我想文化中許多環繞我們的事物

  • which sort of reinforce the idea

    或多或少都強化了這樣的信念

  • that for each one of us, we have a kind of a core, an essence.

    就是我們每個人都有個核心、本質

  • There is something about what it means to be you which defines you,

    談到「你」時,確實有個被指涉的對象可以定義你

  • and it's kind of permanent and unchanging.

    而它貌似是恆久而不變的

  • The most kind of crude way in which we have it,

    在大多最粗略的方式裡

  • are things like horoscopes.

    有像是星座之類的

  • You know, people are very wedded to these, actually.

    人們對這其實蠻執著的

  • People put them on their Facebook profile

    許多人把星座放在臉書資料上

  • as though they are meaningul,

    好像那有意義似的

  • you even know your Chinese horoscope as well.

    甚至連自己的生肖也知道

  • There are also more scientific versions of this,

    其中也有些更科學的版本

  • all sorts of ways of profiling personality type,

    各式各樣的個性類型測驗方法

  • such as the Myers-Briggs tests, for example.

    比如麥氏測試(MBTI)

  • I don't know if you've done those.

    不知道你們是否做過

  • A lot of companies use these for recruitment.

    很多公司用這類測試作為聘雇的依據

  • You answer a lot of questions,

    你回答了一大堆問題

  • and this is supposed to reveal something about your core personality.

    而這些就該顯示出所謂你的核心人格

  • And of course, the popular fascination with this is enormous.

    當然這普遍的迷戀是很盛行的

  • In magazines like this, you'll see,

    在這類雜誌上你可以看到

  • in the bottom left corner, they'll advertise in virtually every issue

    左下角他們幾乎在每一期都廣告了

  • some kind of personality thing.

    一些關於人格的東西

  • And if you pick up one of those magazines,

    而你只要一拿起這些雜誌

  • it's hard to resist, isn't it?

    就很難克制,是不是?

  • Doing the test to find what is your learning style,

    測試一下看看你的學習類型是什麼

  • what is your loving style, or what is your working style?

    你的愛情類型是什麼,或工作類型是什麼?

  • Are you this kind of person or that?

    你是這一類或者那一類的人?

  • So I think that we have a common-sense idea

    所以我認為我們有個共同的信念

  • that there is a kind of core or essence of ourselves

    就是我們具有某些核心或本質

  • to be discovered.

    等著我們去發掘

  • And that this is kind of a permanent truth about ourselves,

    那個關於我們自己的永恆真相

  • something that's the same throughout life.

    某種在一生當中保持不變的東西

  • Well, that's the idea I want to challenge.

    而這正是我想要挑戰的信念

  • And I have to say now, I'll say it a bit later,

    我現在必須說,晚點我還會重提

  • but I'm not challenging this just because I'm weird,

    挑戰這信念並不是因為我很怪

  • the challenge actually has a very, very long and distinguished history.

    這挑戰實際上擁有非常長而特殊的一段歷史

  • Here's the common-sense idea.

    所以這是一個普遍的認知

  • There is you.

    你存在

  • You are the individuals you are, and you have this kind of core.

    你作為一個個體,擁有某種核心

  • Now in your life, what happens is that you, of course,

    在你的生活當中

  • accumulate different experiences and so forth.

    當然你會累積不同的經驗

  • So you have memories,

    於是你有了記憶

  • and these memories help to create what you are.

    而這些記憶幫忙塑造了你自己

  • You have desires, maybe for a cookie,

    你有欲望,可能是對一塊餅乾

  • maybe for something that we don't want to talk about

    又或許是為某些我們不願意明說的事情

  • at 11 o'clock in the morning in a school.

    至少不是早上11點鐘在學校說得出口的

  • You will have beliefs.

    你也會有信念

  • This is a number plate from someone in America.

    這是某個美國人的車牌

  • I don't know whether this number plate, which says "messiah 1,"

    我不知道這個寫著「彌賽亞-1」的車牌

  • indicates that the driver believes in the messiah,

    是代表了這個駕駛相信彌賽亞的傳聞

  • or that they are the messiah.

    或者他們自己就是彌賽亞

  • Either way, they have beliefs about messiahs.

    不論是哪一種狀況,他們都有對於彌賽雅的信念

  • We have knowledge.

    我們有知識

  • We have sensations and experiences as well.

    我們也有感覺和經驗

  • It's not just intellectual things.

    那不僅僅是理智認知的東西

  • So this is kind of the common-sense model, I think, of what a person is.

    所以我想這是某種關於「人」是什麼的共識模型

  • There is a person who has all the things that make up our life experiences.

    某個人擁有所有這些建構我們生活經驗的事物

  • But the suggestion I want to put to you today

    但是今天我想提供給大家的意見

  • is that there's something fundamentally wrong with this model.

    是這模型存在某種根本性的錯誤

  • And I can show you what's wrong with one click.

    我只要按一下就可以讓你看看錯的是什麼

  • Which is there isn't actually a "you" at the heart of all these experiences.

    那就是:並沒有一個真正的「你」存在在這些經驗的中心

  • Strange thought? Well, maybe not.

    奇怪的想法嗎?其實也許還好

  • What is there, then?

    那麼那裡到底有什麼呢?

  • Well, clearly there are memories, desires, intentions, sensations,

    顯然有記憶、欲望、意願、感覺

  • and so forth.

    等等

  • But what happens is these things exist,

    但事實是這些東西存在

  • and they're kind of all integrated,

    而它們整合為一體

  • they're overlapped, they're connected in various different ways.

    它們互相重疊,互相以各種不同的方式連結在一起

  • They're connecting partly, and perhaps even mainly,

    它們部分連結,有時甚至大部分

  • because they all belong to one body and one brain.

    因為它們全屬於同一個身體和同一顆大腦

  • But there's also a narrative, a story we tell about ourselves,

    但那還有一個我們描述給自己聽的故事

  • the experiences we have when we remember past things.

    即憶起往事時我們所擁有的體驗

  • We do things because of other things.

    我們因為別的事情而做某事

  • So what we desire is partly a result of what we believe,

    因此我們所欲望的某部分來自於我們相信什麼

  • and what we remember is also informing us what we know.

    而我們所記得的,也同時告訴自己我們知道些什麼

  • And so really, there are all these things,

    所以真的,所有的這些東西

  • like beliefs, desires, sensations, experiences,

    像是信念、欲望、感覺、經驗

  • they're all related to each other,

    它們全是彼此互相關連的

  • and that just is you.

    而那正是「你」

  • In some ways, it's a small difference from the common-sense understanding.

    以某方面說,這和常識性的理解只有些微差距

  • In some ways, it's a massive one.

    但另一些方面來看,卻有著很大的不同

  • It's the shift between thinking of yourself

    這是一個轉移,介於將自己視為

  • as a thing which has all the experiences of life,

    一個能擁有一切生活經驗的東西

  • and thinking of yourself as simply

    與將自己視為一個僅僅是

  • that collection of all experiences in life.

    一個生活經驗的集合體之間

  • You are the sum of your parts.

    你是你各個部分的總和

  • Now those parts are also physical parts, of course,

    當然也包含了物質性的部分

  • brains, bodies and legs and things,

    大腦、身體,還有腳等等

  • but they aren't so important, actually.

    但它們其實並沒有那麼重要

  • If you have a heart transplant, you're still the same person.

    就算做了心臟移植,你還是同一個你

  • If you have a memory transplant, are you the same person?

    但如果是記憶移植,你是同一個你嗎?

  • If you have a belief transplant, would you be the same person?

    如果你做了信念移植,你還會是同樣那一個人嗎?

  • Now this idea, that what we are, the way to understand ourselves,

    現在這個關於我們是什麼,理解自己的方法

  • is as not of some permanent being, which has experiences,

    認為「我們不是能擁有經驗的永恆存在

  • but is kind of a collection of experiences,

    而是一個經驗的集合體」

  • might strike you as kind of weird.

    可能會讓你覺得有些怪異

  • But actually, I don't think it should be weird.

    但事實上,我不認為這該是奇怪的

  • In a way, it's common sense.

    某種意義上,這是一種常識

  • Because I just invite you to think about, by comparison,

    因為我正邀請你來想想看、比較看看

  • think about pretty much anything else in the universe,

    想想看宇宙中任何一個事物

  • maybe apart from the very most fundamental forces or powers.

    排除最基本的動力或能量

  • Let's take something like water.

    讓我們以水為例

  • Now my science isn't very good.

    我的科學素養不是很好

  • We might say something like water has two parts hydrogen

    我們可以說水這東西有兩份氫

  • and one parts oxygen, right?

    和一份氧,對吧?

  • We all know that.

    這我們都知道

  • I hope no one in this room thinks that what that means

    我想這屋裡沒有人會認為那表示

  • is there is a thing called water, and attached to it

    有一個東西叫水,並有

  • are hydrogen and oxygen atoms,

    氫和氧原子附著在上面

  • and that's what water is.

    而認為那就是水

  • Of course we don't.

    我們當然不會這樣認為

  • We understand, very easily, very straightforwardly,

    我們非常輕易和直覺的體認

  • that water is nothing more

    水不外乎是

  • than the hydrogen and oxygen molecules suitably arranged.

    氫和氧分子的適當結合

  • Everything else in the universe is the same.

    宇宙中所有其他的事物也是如此

  • There's no mystery about my watch, for example.

    我的手錶就沒有什麼神秘的,打個比方

  • We say the watch has a face, and hands,

    我們會說這錶有錶面、指針

  • and a mechanism and a battery,

    機械裝置和電池

  • But what we really mean is,

    但我們真正想說的是

  • we don't think there is a thing called the watch

    我們不會認為有一個叫做錶的東西

  • to which we then attach all these bits.

    而所有這些東西會附在其上

  • We understand very clearly that you get the parts of the watch,

    我們非常清楚地知道把手錶的各部件

  • you put them together, and you create a watch.

    組合在一起,你就得到了一只錶

  • Now if everything else in the universe is like this,

    現在如果一切宇宙中的事物都是如此

  • why are we different?

    我們又為什麼會不一樣?

  • Why think of ourselves

    為什麼把我們自己想成

  • as somehow not just being a collection of all our parts,

    不是擁有這些組成部分的總和

  • but somehow being a separate, permanent entity which has those parts?

    而是某種分離的、永恆的實體,擁有著這些部分?

  • Now this view is not particularly new, actually.

    這觀點其實並不新穎

  • It has quite a long lineage.

    它有著漫長傳承

  • You find it in Buddhism,

    你可以在佛教裡找到它

  • you find it in 17th, 18th-century philosophy

    你可以在十七、十八世紀的哲學找到它

  • going through to the current day, people like Locke and Hume.

    一直到當代,像是洛克、休謨

  • But interestingly, it's also a view

    但有趣的是,它也是一個

  • increasingly being heard reinforced by neuroscience.

    據說逐漸被神經科學所重視的一個觀點

  • This is Paul Broks, he's a clinical neuropsychologist,

    這是保羅.布洛克斯,他是一個臨床神經心理學家

  • and he says this:

    他這樣說

  • "We have a deep intuition that there is a core,

    「我們有個根深蒂固的直覺認為,存在著一個核心

  • an essence there, and it's hard to shake off,

    一個本質,難以被撼動

  • probably impossible to shake off, I suspect.

    我甚至懷疑那是絕不可能擺脫的

  • But it's true that neuroscience shows that there is no centre in the brain

    但確實神經科學顯示了大腦當中並沒有一個中心

  • where things do all come together."

    是所有事物彙集之處。」

  • So when you look at the brain,

    所以當你探索大腦

  • and you look at how the brain makes possible a sense of self,

    探索大腦是如何理解自我的概念

  • you find that there isn't a central control spot in the brain.

    你會發現並沒有一個中央控制點在大腦之中

  • There is no kind of center where everything happens.

    並沒有某種讓所有事情發生的中心

  • There are lots of different processes in the brain,

    腦中有許多不同的歷程

  • all of which operate, in a way, quite independently.

    某種程度上來說都是獨立運作的

  • But it's because of the way that they relate

    但是由於他們是互相關聯的

  • that we get this sense of self.

    我們才有一種自我的感覺

  • The term I use in the book, I call it the ego trick.

    我在書中用了一個詞,叫做自我的把戲

  • It's like a mechanical trick.

    就像是一個機械的戲法

  • It's not that we don't exist,

    這不是說我們不存在

  • it's just that the trick is to make us feel that inside of us

    而是這戲法讓我們感覺我們內在

  • is something more unified than is really there.

    有個更統合的東西存在

  • Now you might think this is a worrying idea.

    也許你覺得這是個讓人擔憂的想法

  • You might think that if it's true,

    你可能覺得如果這是真的

  • that for each one of us there is no abiding core of self,

    我們每個人都沒有永固的自我

  • no permanent essence,

    沒有永久的本質

  • does that mean that really, the self is an illusion?

    是否意味著其實,自我只是一個幻象?

  • Does it mean that we really don't exist?

    這是否意味著我們其實不存在?

  • There is no real you.

    沒有什麽真正的你

  • Well, a lot of people actually do use this talk of illusion and so forth.

    確實,很多人的確採取了這類假象之說

  • These are three psychologists, Thomas Metzinger, Bruce Hood,

    有三個心理學家,湯瑪斯.梅辛革、布魯斯.胡德

  • Susan Blackmore,

    蘇珊.布萊克摩爾

  • a lot of these people do talk the language of illusion,

    這些人都談到假象的觀點

  • the self is an illusion, it's a fiction.

    自我是一個幻象,它是虛構的

  • But I don't think this is a very helpful way of looking at it.

    但我不認為這種看待方式有太多助益

  • Go back to the watch.

    再回到之前的錶

  • The watch isn't an illusion, because there is nothing to the watch

    這只錶並不是幻覺,因為除了

  • other than a collection of its parts.

    它部分的集合之外,並沒有其他東西

  • In the same way, we're not illusions either.

    同樣的,我們也不是一個幻象

  • The fact that we are, in some ways, just this very, very complex collection,

    我們是某種非常複雜的集合體

  • ordered collection of things,

    是精確有序排列的集合體的這件事

  • does not mean we're not real.

    不代表我們就不是真的

  • I can give you a very sort of rough metaphor for this.

    關於這個我想提出一個很粗劣的比喻

  • Let's take something like a waterfall.

    讓我們談談瀑布

  • These are the Iguazu Falls, in Argentina.

    這是阿根廷的伊瓜蘇瀑布

  • Now if you take something like this,

    如果你拿像這樣的例子想想

  • you can appreciate the fact that in lots of ways,

    你就會發現在很多方面

  • there's nothing permanent about this.

    都沒有永恆這回事

  • For one thing, it's always changing.

    一方面,它永遠在改變

  • The waters are always carving new channels.

    水永遠在開拓新的通道

  • with changes in tides and the weather,

    透過潮汐和氣候的改變

  • some things dry up, new things are created.

    有些地方乾涸了,新的事物出現

  • Of course the water that flows through the waterfall

    當然流過瀑布的水

  • is different at every single instance.

    在每一刻都是不同的

  • But it doesn't mean that the Iguazu Falls are an illusion.

    但這並不表示伊瓜蘇瀑布是個幻象

  • It doesn't mean it's not real.

    不表示它並不真實

  • What it means is we have to understand what it is

    它意味著的是我們必須了解

  • as something which has a history,

    它是個擁有歷史發展的事物

  • has certain things that keep it together,

    由特定事物集合而成

  • but it's a process, it's fluid, it's forever changing.

    但它是一個過程,是流動的,永遠在變化

  • Now that, I think, is a model for understanding ourselves,

    我認為這是一個可以用來理解我們自身的

  • and I think it's a liberating model.

    一個自由的模型

  • Because if you think that you have this fixed, permanent essence,

    因為如果你認為有個固定、永恆的本質

  • which is always the same, throughout your life, no matter what,

    終其一生不論如何都永遠不變

  • in a sense you're kind of trapped.

    某種意義上你已經被困住了

  • You're born with an essence,

    你出生就帶有某種本質

  • that's what you are until you die,

    你一直保持如此直到死去

  • if you believe in an afterlife, maybe you continue.

    如果你相信來世,也許你還會繼續下去

  • But if you think of yourself as being, in a way,

    但如果你把自己想成

  • not a thing as such, but a kind of a process,

    不是一個物體,而是一個過程

  • something that is changing,

    一個不斷改變的事物

  • then I think that's quite liberating.

    我認為這是相當令人感到解放的事情

  • Because unlike the the waterfalls,

    因為和瀑布不同

  • we actually have the capacity to channel

    我們實際上擁有能力

  • the direction of our development for ourselves to a certain degree.

    在某種程度上引導自身發展的方向

  • Now we've got to be careful here, right?

    現在我們要小心了,對吧?

  • If you watch the X-Factor too much, you might buy into this idea

    如果你看太多 X-Factor(英國歌唱選秀節目),你可能會認同這個想法

  • that we can all be whatever we want to be.

    「我們能成為任何想成為的人」

  • That's not true.

    這不是真的

  • I've heard some fantastic musicians this morning,

    今天早上我聽了幾位很棒音樂家的演奏

  • and I am very confident that I could in no way be as good as them.

    而我非常確信自己沒法如他們演奏得一般出色

  • I could practice hard and maybe be good,

    也許我努力練習可以做得很不錯

  • but I don't have that really natural ability.

    但我不具備那種與生俱來的天賦

  • There are limits to what we can achieve.

    我們的成就是有限度的

  • There are limits to what we can make of ourselves.

    我們的自我實現是有限度的

  • But nevertheless, we do have this capacity

    但不管怎樣,我們確實有能力

  • to, in a sense, shape ourselves.

    在某種意義上塑造自己

  • The true self, as it were then,

    真我,可以說

  • is not something that is just there for you to discover,

    不是一個在那等著你去發掘的事物

  • you don't sort of look into your soul and find your true self.

    你無法看進自己的靈魂並找到真我

  • What you are partly doing, at least,

    你至少部分地

  • is actually creating your true self.

    是在創造你自己的真我

  • And this, I think, is very, very significant,

    而我認為這個是非常非常重要的

  • particularly at this stage of life you're at.

    特別是在你們現今的人生階段

  • You'll be aware of the fact

    你會意識到

  • how much of you changed over recent years.

    過去幾年裡你改變了多少

  • If you have any videos of yourself, three or four years ago