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  • On Mondays and Thursdays, I learn how to die.

    每個星期一及星期四, 我學習如何死亡。

  • I call them my terminal days.

    我稱這兩天為我的臨終日。

  • My wife Fernanda doesn't like the term,

    我的妻子費南妲不喜歡這個字眼,

  • but a lot of people in my family died of melanoma cancer

    但是我的家族裡 有很多人死於黑色素癌,

  • and my parents and grandparents had it.

    我的雙親及祖父母也患有此病。

  • And I kept thinking, one day I could be sitting in front of a doctor

    我一直想有一天 我也可能會坐在醫師前面,

  • who looks at my exams and says,

    他看著我的檢查報告,然後說:

  • "Ricardo, things don't look very good.

    「李卡多,情況不太妙。

  • You have six months or a year to live."

    你只能再活六個月到一年。」

  • And you start thinking about what you would do with this time.

    然後你開始思索 要怎麼度過這段時間。

  • And you say, "I'm going to spend more time with the kids.

    你說:「我要花更多時間陪小孩。

  • I'm going to visit these places,

    我要遊覽這些那些地方,

  • I'm going to go up and down mountains and places

    我要上山下海,

  • and I'm going to do all the things I didn't do when I had the time."

    我要去做我有時間卻沒做的事。」

  • But of course, we all know

    但是我們想也知道,

  • these are very bittersweet memories we're going to have.

    這些都將是苦樂參半的回憶。

  • It's very difficult to do.

    這是很煎熬的事。

  • You spend a good part of the time crying, probably.

    你大概還會花好大一段時間哭泣。

  • So I said, I'm going to do something else.

    所以我說,我要做點不一樣的事。

  • Every Monday and Thursday, I'm going use my terminal days.

    每個星期一及星期四, 我要充分利用我的臨終日。

  • And I will do, during those days,

    我要在這些日子

  • whatever it is I was going to do if I had received that piece of news.

    做所有我想做的事, 好像我真的接到這樣的噩耗一般。

  • (Laughter)

    (笑聲)

  • When you think about --

    當你想到──

  • (Applause)

    (掌聲)

  • when you think about the opposite of work,

    當你想到工作的相反詞,

  • we, many times, think it's leisure.

    我們常常認為是休閒。

  • And you say, ah, I need some leisure time, and so forth.

    你說,啊!我需要 一些休閒的時間,諸如此類。

  • But the fact is that, leisure is a very busy thing.

    但其實休閒是很忙的一件事。

  • You go play golf and tennis, and you meet people,

    你打高爾夫、網球, 你要見朋友,

  • and you're going for lunch, and you're late for the movies.

    你跟別人約吃午餐, 看電影要遲到了。

  • It's a very crowded thing that we do.

    我們把時間塞得滿滿的。

  • The opposite of work is idleness.

    工作的相對是什麼事都不做。

  • But very few of us know what to do with idleness.

    但是很少有人知道要怎麼 度過什麼都不做的時光。

  • When you look at the way that we distribute our lives in general,

    當你看我們分配生活的方式,

  • you realize that in the periods in which we have a lot of money,

    你就會明白 我們很有錢的時候,

  • we have very little time.

    我們的時間卻很少。

  • And then when we finally have time, we have neither the money nor the health.

    當我們終於有時間了, 卻沒有錢或健康。

  • So we started thinking about that as a company for the last 30 years.

    所以過去 30 年我們 以公司的角度在思考這件事。

  • This is a complicated company with thousands of employees,

    這是個很複雜的公司, 有數千名員工,

  • hundreds of millions of dollars of business

    億萬美元的業務,

  • that makes rocket fuel propellent systems, runs 4,000 ATMs in Brazil,

    製造火箭推進劑系統, 在巴西營運四千台自動櫃員機,

  • does income tax preparation for dozens of thousands.

    幫成千上萬人報稅。

  • So this is not a simple business.

    所以這不是個簡單的公司。

  • We looked at it and we said,

    我們看看它然後說,

  • let's devolve to these people, let's give these people a company

    讓我們把重心轉向這些人, 讓我們給這些人一間公司,

  • where we take away all the boarding school aspects

    把所有寄宿學校的規矩都拿掉,

  • of, this is when you arrive, this is how you dress,

    像是你該幾點到、你該怎麼穿、

  • this is how you go to meetings, this is what you say,

    你該怎麼開會、你該說什麼、

  • this is what you don't say,

    你不該說什麼,

  • and let's see what's left.

    然後來看會是怎樣的情況。

  • So we started this about 30 years ago,

    我們大約在 30 年前 開始做這件事,

  • and we started dealing with this very issue.

    我們開始面對這項問題。

  • And so we said, look, the retirement,

    所以我們說,你看,退休,

  • the whole issue of how we distribute our graph of life.

    我們要如何分配生活這項議題。

  • Instead of going mountain climbing when you're 82,

    與其在你 82 歲時才去爬山,

  • why don't you do it next week?

    你為什麼不下星期就去呢?

  • And we'll do it like this,

    我們要這樣做,

  • we'll sell you back your Wednesdays for 10 percent of your salary.

    我們把你的星期三賣回給你, 用你 10% 的薪水來買。

  • So now, if you were going to be a violinist, which you probably weren't,

    所以現在, 假設你想當小提琴家,

  • you go and do this on Wednesday.

    你大概不想啦, 你就在星期三做這件事。

  • And what we found --

    我們發現──

  • we thought, these are the older people

    我們以為只有老一點的人

  • who are going to be really interested in this program.

    才會真的對這個計畫有興趣。

  • And the average age of the first people who adhered

    然而第一批來參與這個計畫的人

  • were 29, of course.

    平均年齡為 29 歲,想當然爾!

  • And so we started looking,

    所以我們又開始看,

  • and we said, we have to do things in a different way.

    然後我們說, 我們得用不同的方法做事。

  • So we started saying things like,

    所以我們開始說像是

  • why do we want to know what time you came to work,

    為什麼我們想知道你幾點來上班,

  • what time you left, etc.?

    幾點下班等等的問題?

  • Can't we exchange this for a contract

    難道我們不能以此交換一項契約,

  • for buying something from you, some kind of work?

    從你身上買些東西,某些工作?

  • Why are we building these headquarters?

    為什麼我們要蓋這些總部大樓?

  • Is it not an ego issue that we want to look solid

    難道這不是一種自我意識, 我們想要看起來很穩固牢靠,

  • and big and important?

    又大又重要?

  • But we're dragging you two hours across town because of it?

    但是我們要你在路上 塞兩個小時就為了這個?

  • So we started asking questions one by one.

    所以我們開始問問題, 一個接著一個問。

  • We'd say it like this:

    我們問像這樣的問題:

  • One: How do we find people?

    一、我們怎麼找人?

  • We'd go out and try and recruit people and we'd say,

    我們就去外面試了一下, 招人的時候我們說,

  • look, when you come to us,

    聽好,如果你到我們這邊來,

  • we're not going to have two or three interviews

    我們不會安排二三回面試,

  • and then you're going to be married to us for life.

    然後要你一輩子嫁給我們。

  • That's not how we do the rest of our lives.

    那不是我們度過餘生的方式。

  • So, come have your interviews.

    所以,就來面試吧。

  • Anyone who's interested in interviewing, you will show up.

    任何有興趣面試的人都可以來。

  • And then we'll see what happens out of the intuition that rises from that,

    然後我們要看這種 憑直覺的面試會有什麼結果,

  • instead of just filling out the little items of whether you're the right person.

    而不是填寫你是否為 正確人選的那些小項目。

  • And then, come back.

    然後,再回來看看。

  • Spend an afternoon, spend a whole day, talk to anybody you want.

    來這裡過一個下午、過一天, 去跟你想談的人對話。

  • Make sure we are the bride you thought we were

    確定我們的確是 你心目中合適的新娘,

  • and not all the bullshit we put into our own ads.

    而不是徵婚廣告上 誇張不實的鬼扯。

  • (Laughter)

    (笑聲)

  • Slowly we went to a process where we'd say things like,

    慢慢地我們找到一種方式, 我們會這樣說,

  • we don't want anyone to be a leader in the company

    我們不要任何人 在這間公司裡當領導人,

  • if they haven't been interviewed and approved

    如果他們還沒被他們未來的下屬

  • by their future subordinates.

    面試及認可,就不可以當。

  • Every six months, everyone gets evaluated, anonymously, as a leader.

    每六個月,每位領導人 都要接受無記名評估。

  • And this determines whether they should continue in that leadership position,

    這決定他們是否能繼續 他們領導階層的位置,

  • which is many times situational, as you know.

    這個位置常常很情境式,你知道的。

  • And so if they don't have 70, 80 percent of a grade, they don't stay,

    所以如果他們不能拿個七八十分, 他們就不能待下去。

  • which is probably the reason why I haven't been CEO for more than 10 years.

    這大概就是為什麼我已經 超過十年沒當執行長的原因。

  • And over time, we started asking other questions.

    隨著時間推移, 我們開始問其他問題。

  • We said things like,

    我們問問題像是,

  • why can't people set their own salaries?

    為什麼大家不能自訂薪水?

  • What do they need to know?

    他們需要知道什麼?

  • There's only three things you need to know:

    你只需要知道三件事:

  • how much people make inside the company,

    公司內的人薪資多少?

  • how much people make somewhere else in a similar business

    在業界薪資行情又是多少?

  • and how much we make in general to see whether we can afford it.

    公司通常要賺多少才付的起?

  • So let's give people these three pieces of information.

    所以我們給大家這三項資料。

  • So we started having, in the cafeteria,

    後來我們開始在員工餐廳

  • a computer where you could go in and you could ask

    放一台電腦,你可以進去問

  • what someone spent, how much someone makes,

    某人花多少、某人賺多少、

  • what they make in benefits, what the company makes,

    他們有什麼福利、公司又賺多少、

  • what the margins are, and so forth.

    利潤是多少等等。

  • And this is 25 years ago.

    這還是 25 年前。

  • As this information started coming to people,

    當這樣的情報開始流傳出去,

  • we said things like, we don't want to see your expense report,

    我們會說, 我們不想知道你的開支表,

  • we don't want to know how many holidays you're taking,

    我們不想知道你要放多少天假,

  • we don't want to know where you work.

    我們不想知道你在哪裡辦公。

  • We had, at one point, 14 different offices around town,

    我們曾經一度在城裡 14 個不同的地方設辦公室,

  • and we'd say, go to the one that's closest to your house,

    我們說,去離你家最近的那個上班,

  • to the customer that you're going to visit today.

    去你今天要去拜訪的客戶那邊。

  • Don't tell us where you are.

    不要告訴我們你在那。

  • And more, even when we had thousands of people, 5,000 people,

    更扯的是,即使在我們有 數千員工,五千名員工的時代,

  • we had two people in the H.R. department,

    我們只有兩個人在人資部門,

  • and thankfully one of them has retired.

    而且謝天謝地其中一個已經退休了。

  • (Laughter)

    (笑聲)

  • And so, the question we were asking was, how can we be taking care of people?

    所以,我們那時問的問題是, 我們要怎麼照顧員工?

  • People are the only thing we have.

    員工是我們唯一擁有的。

  • We can't have a department that runs after people and looks after people.

    我們不可能搞一個部門 天天追著員工跑、盯著員工看。

  • So as we started finding that this worked, and we'd say, we're looking for --

    所以當我們開始發現這方法有用, 我們就說我們要找──

  • and this is, I think, the main thing I was looking for

    我想這也是我在臨終日

  • in the terminal days and in the company,

    及在這間公司所尋找的主要東西──

  • which is, how do you set up for wisdom?

    就是,你要如何建立智慧?

  • We've come from an age of revolution, industrial revolution,

    我們是革命時代的產物,工業革命、

  • an age of information, an age of knowledge,

    資訊時代、知識時代,

  • but we're not any closer to the age of wisdom.

    卻離智慧時代還很遠。

  • How we design, how do we organize, for more wisdom?

    我們如何設計,如何組織 以得到更多智慧?

  • So for example, many times,

    舉個例子,有好多次,

  • what's the smartest or the intelligent decision doesn't jive.

    什麼是最聰明最明智, 又不會被笑的決定?

  • So we'd say things like,

    所以我們會說像這樣的事,

  • let's agree that you're going to sell 57 widgets per week.

    就說你同意一星期要賣 57 個界面小工具好了。

  • If you sell them by Wednesday, please go to the beach.

    如果你在星期三前賣完, 請去海邊玩。

  • Don't create a problem for us, for manufacturing, for application,

    不要給我們、給製造商、 給小程式製造問題,

  • then we have to buy new companies, we have to buy our competitors,

    不然我們就得買新的公司, 我們就得買下對手,

  • we have to do all kinds of things because you sold too many widgets.

    我們要做一大堆事, 因為你賣了太多界面小工具。

  • So go to the beach and start again on Monday.

    所以就去海邊玩吧, 星期一再重新開始。

  • (Laughter) (Applause)

    (笑聲)(掌聲)

  • So the process is looking for wisdom.

    所以這整個過程是想尋求智慧。

  • And in the process, of course, we wanted people to know everything,

    當然在過程中, 我們要大家知道每件事,

  • and we wanted to be truly democratic about the way we ran things.

    我們想在我們經營方法上 有真正的民主。

  • So our board had two seats open with the same voting rights,

    所以我們的董事會有兩個空的席次, 跟其他董事有同等的投票權,

  • for the first two people who showed up.

    要給最先來公司上班的兩個人。

  • (Laughter)

    (笑聲)

  • And so we had cleaning ladies voting on a board meeting,

    所以我們有公司清潔婦 在董事會裡,

  • which had a lot of other very important people in suits and ties.

    在這個其他重要人物 都西裝筆挺的會議裡投票。

  • And the fact is that they kept us honest.

    事實是他們讓我們誠實。

  • This process, as we started looking at the people who came to us,

    這個過程,就在我們開始 看著大家爭相進入我們公司,

  • we'd say, now wait a second,

    我們說,等一下,

  • people come to us and they say, where am I supposed to sit?

    他們進了公司,他們問, 我應該坐哪裡?

  • How am I supposed to work? Where am I going to be in 5 years' time?

    我要怎麼開始? 五年後我在哪裡?

  • And we looked at that and we said, we have to start much earlier.

    我們看著這情況我們說, 我們得早點開始。

  • Where do we start?

    我們從哪裡開始?