I call them my terminal days.

我稱這兩天為我的臨終日。

My wife Fernanda doesn't like the term,

我的妻子費南妲不喜歡這個字眼，

but a lot of people in my family died of melanoma cancer

但是我的家族裡 有很多人死於黑色素癌，

and my parents and grandparents had it.

我的雙親及祖父母也患有此病。

And I kept thinking, one day I could be sitting in front of a doctor

我一直想有一天 我也可能會坐在醫師前面，

who looks at my exams and says,

他看著我的檢查報告，然後說：

"Ricardo, things don't look very good.

「李卡多，情況不太妙。

You have six months or a year to live."

你只能再活六個月到一年。」

And you start thinking about what you would do with this time.

然後你開始思索 要怎麼度過這段時間。

And you say, "I'm going to spend more time with the kids.

你說：「我要花更多時間陪小孩。

I'm going to visit these places,

我要遊覽這些那些地方，

I'm going to go up and down mountains and places

我要上山下海，

and I'm going to do all the things I didn't do when I had the time."

我要去做我有時間卻沒做的事。」

But of course, we all know

但是我們想也知道，

these are very bittersweet memories we're going to have.

這些都將是苦樂參半的回憶。

It's very difficult to do.

這是很煎熬的事。

You spend a good part of the time crying, probably.

你大概還會花好大一段時間哭泣。

So I said, I'm going to do something else.

所以我說，我要做點不一樣的事。

Every Monday and Thursday, I'm going use my terminal days.

每個星期一及星期四， 我要充分利用我的臨終日。

And I will do, during those days,

我要在這些日子

whatever it is I was going to do if I had received that piece of news.

做所有我想做的事， 好像我真的接到這樣的噩耗一般。

(Laughter)

（笑聲）

When you think about --

當你想到──

(Applause)

（掌聲）

when you think about the opposite of work,

當你想到工作的相反詞，

we, many times, think it's leisure.

我們常常認為是休閒。

And you say, ah, I need some leisure time, and so forth.

你說，啊！我需要 一些休閒的時間，諸如此類。

But the fact is that, leisure is a very busy thing.

但其實休閒是很忙的一件事。

You go play golf and tennis, and you meet people,

你打高爾夫、網球， 你要見朋友，

and you're going for lunch, and you're late for the movies.

你跟別人約吃午餐， 看電影要遲到了。

It's a very crowded thing that we do.

我們把時間塞得滿滿的。

The opposite of work is idleness.

工作的相對是什麼事都不做。

But very few of us know what to do with idleness.

但是很少有人知道要怎麼 度過什麼都不做的時光。

When you look at the way that we distribute our lives in general,

當你看我們分配生活的方式，

you realize that in the periods in which we have a lot of money,

你就會明白 我們很有錢的時候，

we have very little time.

我們的時間卻很少。

And then when we finally have time, we have neither the money nor the health.

當我們終於有時間了， 卻沒有錢或健康。

So we started thinking about that as a company for the last 30 years.

所以過去 30 年我們 以公司的角度在思考這件事。

This is a complicated company with thousands of employees,

這是個很複雜的公司， 有數千名員工，

hundreds of millions of dollars of business

億萬美元的業務，

that makes rocket fuel propellent systems, runs 4,000 ATMs in Brazil,

製造火箭推進劑系統， 在巴西營運四千台自動櫃員機，

does income tax preparation for dozens of thousands.

幫成千上萬人報稅。

So this is not a simple business.

所以這不是個簡單的公司。

We looked at it and we said,

我們看看它然後說，

let's devolve to these people, let's give these people a company

讓我們把重心轉向這些人， 讓我們給這些人一間公司，

where we take away all the boarding school aspects

把所有寄宿學校的規矩都拿掉，

of, this is when you arrive, this is how you dress,

像是你該幾點到、你該怎麼穿、

this is how you go to meetings, this is what you say,

你該怎麼開會、你該說什麼、

this is what you don't say,

你不該說什麼，

and let's see what's left.

然後來看會是怎樣的情況。

So we started this about 30 years ago,

我們大約在 30 年前 開始做這件事，

and we started dealing with this very issue.

我們開始面對這項問題。

And so we said, look, the retirement,

所以我們說，你看，退休，

the whole issue of how we distribute our graph of life.

我們要如何分配生活這項議題。

Instead of going mountain climbing when you're 82,

與其在你 82 歲時才去爬山，

why don't you do it next week?

你為什麼不下星期就去呢？

And we'll do it like this,

我們要這樣做，

we'll sell you back your Wednesdays for 10 percent of your salary.

我們把你的星期三賣回給你， 用你 10% 的薪水來買。

So now, if you were going to be a violinist, which you probably weren't,

所以現在， 假設你想當小提琴家，

you go and do this on Wednesday.

你大概不想啦， 你就在星期三做這件事。

And what we found --

我們發現──

we thought, these are the older people

我們以為只有老一點的人

who are going to be really interested in this program.

才會真的對這個計畫有興趣。

And the average age of the first people who adhered

然而第一批來參與這個計畫的人

were 29, of course.

平均年齡為 29 歲，想當然爾！

And so we started looking,

所以我們又開始看，

and we said, we have to do things in a different way.

然後我們說， 我們得用不同的方法做事。

So we started saying things like,

所以我們開始說像是

why do we want to know what time you came to work,

為什麼我們想知道你幾點來上班，

what time you left, etc.?

幾點下班等等的問題？

Can't we exchange this for a contract

難道我們不能以此交換一項契約，

for buying something from you, some kind of work?

從你身上買些東西，某些工作？

Why are we building these headquarters?

為什麼我們要蓋這些總部大樓？

Is it not an ego issue that we want to look solid

難道這不是一種自我意識， 我們想要看起來很穩固牢靠，

and big and important?

又大又重要？

But we're dragging you two hours across town because of it?

但是我們要你在路上 塞兩個小時就為了這個？

So we started asking questions one by one.

所以我們開始問問題， 一個接著一個問。

We'd say it like this:

我們問像這樣的問題：

One: How do we find people?

一、我們怎麼找人？

We'd go out and try and recruit people and we'd say,

我們就去外面試了一下， 招人的時候我們說，

look, when you come to us,

聽好，如果你到我們這邊來，

we're not going to have two or three interviews

我們不會安排二三回面試，

and then you're going to be married to us for life.

然後要你一輩子嫁給我們。

That's not how we do the rest of our lives.

那不是我們度過餘生的方式。

So, come have your interviews.

所以，就來面試吧。

Anyone who's interested in interviewing, you will show up.

任何有興趣面試的人都可以來。

And then we'll see what happens out of the intuition that rises from that,

然後我們要看這種 憑直覺的面試會有什麼結果，

instead of just filling out the little items of whether you're the right person.

而不是填寫你是否為 正確人選的那些小項目。

And then, come back.

然後，再回來看看。

Spend an afternoon, spend a whole day, talk to anybody you want.

來這裡過一個下午、過一天， 去跟你想談的人對話。

Make sure we are the bride you thought we were

確定我們的確是 你心目中合適的新娘，

and not all the bullshit we put into our own ads.

而不是徵婚廣告上 誇張不實的鬼扯。

(Laughter)

（笑聲）

Slowly we went to a process where we'd say things like,

慢慢地我們找到一種方式， 我們會這樣說，

we don't want anyone to be a leader in the company

我們不要任何人 在這間公司裡當領導人，

if they haven't been interviewed and approved

如果他們還沒被他們未來的下屬

by their future subordinates.

面試及認可，就不可以當。

Every six months, everyone gets evaluated, anonymously, as a leader.

每六個月，每位領導人 都要接受無記名評估。

And this determines whether they should continue in that leadership position,

這決定他們是否能繼續 他們領導階層的位置，

which is many times situational, as you know.

這個位置常常很情境式，你知道的。

And so if they don't have 70, 80 percent of a grade, they don't stay,

所以如果他們不能拿個七八十分， 他們就不能待下去。

which is probably the reason why I haven't been CEO for more than 10 years.

這大概就是為什麼我已經 超過十年沒當執行長的原因。

And over time, we started asking other questions.

隨著時間推移， 我們開始問其他問題。

We said things like,

我們問問題像是，

why can't people set their own salaries?

為什麼大家不能自訂薪水？

What do they need to know?

他們需要知道什麼？

There's only three things you need to know:

你只需要知道三件事：

how much people make inside the company,

公司內的人薪資多少？

how much people make somewhere else in a similar business

在業界薪資行情又是多少？

and how much we make in general to see whether we can afford it.

公司通常要賺多少才付的起？

So let's give people these three pieces of information.

所以我們給大家這三項資料。

So we started having, in the cafeteria,

後來我們開始在員工餐廳

a computer where you could go in and you could ask

放一台電腦，你可以進去問

what someone spent, how much someone makes,

某人花多少、某人賺多少、

what they make in benefits, what the company makes,

他們有什麼福利、公司又賺多少、

what the margins are, and so forth.

利潤是多少等等。

And this is 25 years ago.

這還是 25 年前。

As this information started coming to people,

當這樣的情報開始流傳出去，

we said things like, we don't want to see your expense report,

我們會說， 我們不想知道你的開支表，

we don't want to know how many holidays you're taking,

我們不想知道你要放多少天假，

we don't want to know where you work.

我們不想知道你在哪裡辦公。

We had, at one point, 14 different offices around town,

我們曾經一度在城裡 14 個不同的地方設辦公室，

and we'd say, go to the one that's closest to your house,

我們說，去離你家最近的那個上班，

to the customer that you're going to visit today.

去你今天要去拜訪的客戶那邊。

Don't tell us where you are.

不要告訴我們你在那。

And more, even when we had thousands of people, 5,000 people,

更扯的是，即使在我們有 數千員工，五千名員工的時代，

we had two people in the H.R. department,

我們只有兩個人在人資部門，

and thankfully one of them has retired.

而且謝天謝地其中一個已經退休了。

(Laughter)

（笑聲）

And so, the question we were asking was, how can we be taking care of people?

所以，我們那時問的問題是， 我們要怎麼照顧員工？

People are the only thing we have.

員工是我們唯一擁有的。

We can't have a department that runs after people and looks after people.

我們不可能搞一個部門 天天追著員工跑、盯著員工看。

So as we started finding that this worked, and we'd say, we're looking for --

所以當我們開始發現這方法有用， 我們就說我們要找──

and this is, I think, the main thing I was looking for

我想這也是我在臨終日

in the terminal days and in the company,

及在這間公司所尋找的主要東西──

which is, how do you set up for wisdom?

就是，你要如何建立智慧？

We've come from an age of revolution, industrial revolution,

我們是革命時代的產物，工業革命、

an age of information, an age of knowledge,

資訊時代、知識時代，

but we're not any closer to the age of wisdom.

卻離智慧時代還很遠。

How we design, how do we organize, for more wisdom?

我們如何設計，如何組織 以得到更多智慧？

So for example, many times,

舉個例子，有好多次，

what's the smartest or the intelligent decision doesn't jive.

什麼是最聰明最明智， 又不會被笑的決定？

So we'd say things like,

所以我們會說像這樣的事，

let's agree that you're going to sell 57 widgets per week.

就說你同意一星期要賣 57 個界面小工具好了。

If you sell them by Wednesday, please go to the beach.

如果你在星期三前賣完， 請去海邊玩。

Don't create a problem for us, for manufacturing, for application,

不要給我們、給製造商、 給小程式製造問題，

then we have to buy new companies, we have to buy our competitors,

不然我們就得買新的公司， 我們就得買下對手，

we have to do all kinds of things because you sold too many widgets.

我們要做一大堆事， 因為你賣了太多界面小工具。

So go to the beach and start again on Monday.

所以就去海邊玩吧， 星期一再重新開始。

(Laughter) (Applause)

（笑聲）（掌聲）

So the process is looking for wisdom.

所以這整個過程是想尋求智慧。

And in the process, of course, we wanted people to know everything,

當然在過程中， 我們要大家知道每件事，

and we wanted to be truly democratic about the way we ran things.

我們想在我們經營方法上 有真正的民主。

So our board had two seats open with the same voting rights,

所以我們的董事會有兩個空的席次， 跟其他董事有同等的投票權，

for the first two people who showed up.

要給最先來公司上班的兩個人。

(Laughter)

（笑聲）

And so we had cleaning ladies voting on a board meeting,

所以我們有公司清潔婦 在董事會裡，

which had a lot of other very important people in suits and ties.

在這個其他重要人物 都西裝筆挺的會議裡投票。

And the fact is that they kept us honest.

事實是他們讓我們誠實。

This process, as we started looking at the people who came to us,

這個過程，就在我們開始 看著大家爭相進入我們公司，

we'd say, now wait a second,

我們說，等一下，

people come to us and they say, where am I supposed to sit?

他們進了公司，他們問， 我應該坐哪裡？

How am I supposed to work? Where am I going to be in 5 years' time?

我要怎麼開始？ 五年後我在哪裡？

And we looked at that and we said, we have to start much earlier.

我們看著這情況我們說， 我們得早點開始。

Where do we start?

我們從哪裡開始？