Name: 唐納·川普與東尼·布萊談論英國對伊朗的回應！BBC新聞快報 (Donald Trump and Tony Blair weigh in on UK's Iran response | BBC Newscast)
Uploaded: 2026-03-08T16:48:56.000Z
Duration: 32 min 31 s

Patrick Nutcracker is the word I would use.

我會用 Patrick Nutcracker 這個詞。

轉承詞

I thought you were going to call me Nutcracker because I said your name.

我以為你會叫我 Nutcracker，因為我說了你的名字。

You could say Keir Starm has been Nutcrackered by comments from Sir Tony Blair and President Trump.

你可以說 Keir Starmer 被 Sir Tony Blair 和 President Trump 的評論給 Nutcrackered 了。

Both of whom are figures not universally loved by people in his own party.

這兩個人都不是他黨內人士普遍喜歡的人物。

But their status as a former incredibly successful, in many ways, Labour Prime Minister and the current occupant of the White House means that criticism from them is not something that Keir Starmer would choose to have.

但他們一位是過去非常成功的 Labour Prime Minister，另一位是現任 White House 的主人，這意味著來自他們的批評，Keir Starmer 並不會想遇到。

And it has brought to life the political awkwardness of the raging, dangerous war in the Middle east that it has just become over a week old.

而這也點燃了 Middle east 戰火，這場危險的戰爭才剛滿一週，政治上的尷尬處境就此浮現。

Can I just say, before we get into a very serious conversation, I think Henry at Home is now something that should be trademarked.

在我跟你們聊一個很嚴肅的話題之前，我必須說，Henry at Home 現在應該要申請專利了。

Well, as I told you both, I was at a wedding last week and a big fan of the podcast who I'd not met before came up to me and said, you're Henry at home.

嗯，就像我跟你們說的，我上週參加一個婚禮，一位我從沒見過的、非常喜歡這個 podcast 的聽眾走過來跟我說，你是 Henry at home。

And so, you know, I do have a surname too, by the way, in case anyone's wondering, it's Zeffman.

對了，順帶一提，我也有姓氏，以防有人好奇，我姓 Zeffman。

And I appear on other bits of the BBC from BBC offices over the course of the week, but

我一週內也會在 BBC 的其他節目出現，從 BBC 各個辦公室錄製，但

I'm very happy on Sundays to be Henry at home.

我很高興在星期天能當 Henry at home。

You're Henry at home and I'm BBC Laura Kane.

你是 Henry at home，而我是 BBC Laura Kane。

Thing is, once you've got a name, that's just what you get.

問題是，一旦你有了名字，就會變成這樣。

Couldn't it be a whole, whole lifetime with interior design tips?

不能是關於室內設計技巧的、一輩子的內容嗎？

我不確定有沒有人想要我的建議。

But when it takes off, we won't, we won't be getting any slice of it.

但如果它紅了，我們就什麼也得不到。

So the conversation actually on the airwaves is all about what the US president says about the UK's military support or not.

所以實際上在廣播中的對話，全都是關於美國總統說了什麼，關於英國的軍事支持與否。

And Donald Trump, in one of his late night messages on social media, slagged off, let's just say, slacked off what's meant to be his closest ally, the UK and its Prime Minister.

而 Donald Trump 在他晚間的社群媒體訊息中，批評了，就這麼說吧，批評了他最親密的盟友英國及其首相。

And he said that the US doesn't need the uk.

He said that this war in the Middle east is basically already been won by America and Israel and so what if the UK is now thinking about sending two aircraft carriers?

他說中東的這場戰爭基本上已經被美國和以色列贏了，所以英國現在考慮派遣兩艘航空母艦又怎麼樣？

the reality is the UK is the UK has only got one aircraft carrier that's in any state to be sent to the Gulf.

事實是英國只有一艘航空母艦能夠派往波斯灣。

But even by Donald Trump's measure, it is a pretty extraordinary digital attack on your bezzy mate across the Atlantic.

但即使以 Donald Trump 的標準來看，這也是對大西洋彼岸的「麻吉」進行了一次相當驚人的數位攻擊。

Well, I think there's two levels on which you can look at this.

嗯，我認為這可以從兩個層面來看。

There is the frame of Sir Keir Starmer spent 15 or so months trying to get as close to Donald Trump as possible.

一方面，Keir Starmer 花了大概 15 個月，試圖盡可能地拉近跟 Donald Trump 的關係。

And that strategy has clearly gone down in complete failure.

而這個策略顯然已經徹底失敗了。

it's very hard to see their relationship returning to what it was, even with this very capricious president.

即使面對這位非常善變的總統，也很難看到他們的關係能回到從前。

This feels much more like the situation that Theresa May ended up in with Donald Trump, where just for ages, he, he was belittling her in public.

這感覺更像是 Theresa May 當初跟 Donald Trump 的情況，他有好長一段時間都在公開場合貶低她。

On the other hand, the Prime Minister has managed to avoid putting himself in the midst of on the side of a war, which public opinion polling suggests so far is unpopular in the uk.

另一方面，首相成功地避免讓自己捲入戰爭，而這場戰爭的民意調查顯示，到目前為止在英國並不受歡迎。

And he's also clashing with a US president who has never been popular in the uk.

而且他還跟一位在英國從未受歡迎過的美國總統產生衝突。

So on that level, politically, as sort of slightly kind of glib as it might sound, I think they're quite pleased with this in parts of the government.

所以從這個層面來看，政治上，雖然聽起來有點油嘴滑舌，但我認為政府的某些部門對此感到相當高興。

But it's the question of that competing impulse between the strategic priority this government has had since President Trump returned to the White House and the political imperative this government has to find ways not to annoy the British public.

但這就牽涉到這個政府自從 President Trump 回到 White House 以來，一直以來的戰略優先事項，以及這個政府必須找到方法不惹惱英國民眾的政治必要性之間的競爭性衝動。

And then I think there's a third element as well, actually

而且我認為還有第三個層面，實際上

is whether or not this means anything of substance.

是這是否代表了任何實質性的東西。

So the Foreign Secretary, Yvette Cooper, was saying to us this morning is, oh, focus on the substance, focus on the substance.

所以外交大臣 Yvette Cooper 今天早上告訴我們說，哦，專注於實質內容，專注於實質內容。

That is, ignore Donald Trump's late night messages on social media.

也就是說，忽略 Donald Trump 在社群媒體上的深夜訊息。

I would say that this is about what's in the UK's interest.

It's for the US President to decide what he thinks is in the US national interest, and

這取決於 US president 決定他認為什麼是美國的國家利益，而且

But it is our job as the UK government to decide what's in the UK national interest.

但身為 UK 政府，我們的職責是決定什麼是英國的國家利益。

And that doesn't mean simply agreeing with other countries or outsourcing our foreign policy to other countries.

這不代表我們只是同意其他國家，或是將我們的外交政策外包給其他國家。

We have to be able to take those decisions.

Of course, we have a long, deep, important security partnership with the United States, but

當然，我們跟美國有著長久、深厚、重要的安全夥伴關係，但

we also have some issues where we disagree in the British interest.

我們在一些議題上也有意見不合，這符合英國的利益。

We're seeing these pictures here of President Trump and Keir Starmer laughing and joking as they did in the Oval Office.

我們在這裡看到川普總統和 Keir Starmer 在總統辦公室裡談笑的畫面。

The King Handing over this invitation to come and have tea with the King.

This is a public and serious spatula between the Prime Minister and the man who's meant to be our closest ally.

這是首相和這位本應是我們最親密盟友的人之間，公開且嚴肅的較量。

Well, you'll forgive me that I focus on the substance rather than on social media posts.

嗯，請原諒我，我更關注實質內容，而不是社群媒體上的貼文。

And I've learned this long enough to know.

Should we just ignore him on social media post?

我們就該在社群媒體貼文上忽視他嗎？

If you follow every single social media post, you spend an awful lot of time doing social media posts in response.

如果你關注每一則社群媒體貼文，你就會花非常多的時間在回應社群媒體貼文上。

Well, the President used to spend a lot of time doing social media posts.

嗯，總統以前花很多時間發社群媒體貼文。

I think the same substance we should concentrate on is what is the right thing to do.

我認為我們應該專注的實質內容，是做正確的事情。

So the politics of this actually could, you might posit, as some people in government might hope, you end up with a sort of unintentional Hugh Grant in love actually moment for Keir Starmer.

所以這場政治，你可能會認為，就像政府裡有些人希望的那樣，基爾·斯塔默（Keir Starmer）最終會出現一種無意間的「真愛每一天」（Love Actually）休·葛蘭特（Hugh Grant）時刻。

He ends up getting the respect of some people for having made Donald Trump cross.

他最終會因為惹惱唐納·川普（Donald Trump）而贏得一些人的尊重。

The other way then of looking at this be point four is actually the UK government potentially has ended up in the worst of all worlds because they have made itself unpopular with its allies, many of them particularly Americans.

那麼，另一種看待第四點的方式是，英國政府可能最終陷入了最糟糕的境地，因為它讓自己不受盟友歡迎，其中許多盟友，特別是美國人。

But also, we understand, across the Gulf, the Cypriots, for example, have been cross about what they perceive as being a lack of support, but

但是，我們也知道，在中東，例如賽普勒斯人，對於他們認為缺乏支持感到非常不滿，

Because although we're not wholeheartedly in this war in the way that America would like, there are American bombers that will be taking off from British bases, there are RAF jets in the skies in the Middle east shooting down and intercepting Iranian drones and missiles.

因為雖然我們不像美國希望的那樣全力投入這場戰爭，但有美國轟炸機將從英國基地起飛，有英國皇家空軍的噴射機在中東的天空中擊落並攔截伊朗的無人機和飛彈。

So it's a kind of in and out, you know, Goldilocks position, isn't it?

所以這有點像是，你知道，一個剛剛好的位置，不是嗎？

You know, not, not quite hot enough, not quite cool enough.

That may prove in time to look like actually something politically convenient, or it might just be awkward and you end up making everyone cross.

隨著時間推移，這可能會被視為政治上很方便，或者可能只是很尷尬，最後讓每個人都生氣。

Yes, because this is really about what the President posts online.

是的，因為這真的取決於總統在網路上發布的內容。

As distinct from a war on Iran, which is something that all of the people in the world are wondering, when does it.

這與一場針對伊朗的戰爭不同，而這場戰爭是世界上所有人都想知道何時會發生的。

And so Yvette Cooper's really trying to separate out what the President says from what the underlying sort of relationship is.

所以 Yvette Cooper 真的試圖將總統的說法與潛在的關係區分開來。

And she was also trying to, I think, have a bit of a pop at Tony Blair.

而且我認為她也在試圖批評一下 Tony Blair。

So some of the other reporting this morning has been that Tony Blair told a private event that he hoped wouldn't be late.

所以今天早上其他一些報導提到，Tony Blair 在一個私人場合表示，他希望不會太晚。

The expectation was that it was not be Leaked.

大家的預期是這件事不會被洩漏。

And he said what we would expect him to say, that America is your ally, they're an indispensable cornerstone for your security.

他說了我們預期他會說的話，美國是你們的盟友，他們是你們安全不可或缺的基石。

You'd better show up when they want you to.

你最好在他們需要你的時候出現。

So Tony Blair there all over the front pages this morning, attacking Keir Starmer's decision to sit out the original attacks on this war.

所以今天早上 Tony Blair 佔據了所有頭條，批評 Keir Starmer 決定不介入對這場戰爭的最初攻擊。

But it was interesting here, Defense hearing Yvette Cooper talk about this this morning, who of course, was a minister in Tony Blair's government.

但有趣的是，今天早上聽 Yvette Cooper 談論這件事，她當然是 Tony Blair 政府的一位部長。

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唐納·川普與東尼·布萊談論英國對伊朗的回應！BBC新聞快報 (Donald Trump and Tony Blair weigh in on UK's Iran response | BBC Newscast)

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