Name: 普立茲克：這位億萬富翁將挑戰川普｜今日解析 (JB Pritzker: the billionaire taking on Trump | Today, Explained)
Uploaded: 2026-02-14T17:26:42.000Z
Duration: 22 min 17 s

Hi, and welcome to Today Explained Saturday.

嗨，歡迎來到 Today Explained Saturday。

程度副詞

every week I'll be talking to someone in the news, in the culture, or just exploring an idea I can't get out of my head.

每週我都會和新聞界、文化界的人物對談，或是探討一個我腦中揮之不去的主題。

Now, this week, we're in Chicago, my hometown, where we talk to Illinois Governor J.B. pritzker.

這週，我們來到我的家鄉芝加哥，和伊利諾州州長 J.B. Pritzker 對談。

He's one of the most vocal Democrats in the country right now when it comes to pushing back against Trump.

他是目前全國最敢於發聲的民主黨員之一，對於反擊川普的立場非常堅定。

And we talked about everything, about how he pushed back against ICE operations in his state, about where Democrats go from here.

我們聊了好多，包括他如何阻止 ICE 在他州內執行勤務，以及民主黨接下來的路該怎麼走。

And I also asked them the all important question, are you running for president?

我還問了他那個最重要的問題：您要競選總統嗎？

I think you're going to want to hear his answer.

Governor Pritzker, thank you for joining us.

I want to dig into everything from kind of the way Illinois has led on pushing back against the Trump administration, kind of future of Democrats.

我想深入聊聊伊利諾州在反擊川普政府方面的領導作用，以及民主黨的未來。

But I also wanted to say I was thinking about you recently because I'm learning how to play blackjack and poker and some stuff, and

但我也想說，我最近想到您，因為我正在學習玩 blackjack 和 poker，還有一些東西，

I was reading about just quite how good you are.

I saw that you reported more than 1.4 in Vegas, 1.4 million in winnings from blackjack in Vegas.

我看到報導說您在拉斯維加斯贏了超過 140 萬的 blackjack 彩金。

I wanted to know if this, like a normal week for you, like, how do you make that happen now?

我想知道這對您來說是不是像平常的一週，您是怎麼做到的？

And, you know, they're not in business to, you know, to, to give you money.

而且，你知道，他們做生意不是為了，你知道，給你錢。

So if you, if you can win anything and walk away, you've done well.

所以如果你能贏到任何東西就走，你就做得很好。

You know, we want to talk about how you've positioned Illinois as a ground zero for kind of pushing against Trump's immigration enforcement.

你知道，我們想聊聊您是如何將伊利諾州定位為對抗川普移民執法的關鍵據點。

You signed a law limiting ICE in Illinois.

您簽署了一項限制 ICE 在伊利諾州的法律。

You created the accountability commission.

I wanted to know, like, if you could describe what you would think, the playbook that Illinois has laid out for what to do if Trump comes to town.

我想知道，您能不能描述一下，您認為伊利諾州為川普來訪時該怎麼做所制定的 playbook 是什麼？

I will say Minneapolis sort of adopted the playbook that we've been, not that they haven't added to it, but, but

我要說，明尼阿波利斯採納了我們的 playbook，雖然他們也加入了一些東西，但是

I think we went through this really first, I mean, to developing that playbook.

我認為我們是第一個經歷這個，我是說，發展出這個 playbook 的。

It's, it starts with making sure people know what their rights are.

這，這首先要確保大家知道自己的權利是什麼。

When, you know, ICE agents are banging on your door, do you have to open the door?

當，你知道，ICE 探員敲你的門時，你必須開門嗎？

You know, what is it that they're allowed to do and not allowed to do?

你知道，他們被允許做什麼，不被允許做什麼？

this is what I told everybody very early on, pull out your iPhone, pull out your Android phone, video, everything.

這是我很早就告訴大家的，拿出你的 iPhone，拿出你的 Android 手機，錄影，錄下所有東西。

And I'm talking about not just the people who are being pursued, but, you know, people in the neighborhoods who want to protect their neighbors.

我說的不是隻有那些被追捕的人，而是，你知道，社區裡那些想保護鄰居的人。

And we were able to use that evidence before we even created the accountability Commission.

在我們成立責任委員會之前，我們就已經能夠利用這些證據了。

That evidence came in handy when the ICE and CBP agents were taken to court here.

當 ICE 和 CBP 探員在這裡被起訴時，這些證據派上了用場。

Yeah, I mean, I wanted to dig into this because, you know, Trump gave you an ultimatum saying to activate the National Guard or they federalize your troops.

是啊，我是說，我想深入探討這個，因為你知道，川普給你下了最後通牒，要你啟用國民兵，不然他們就會聯邦化你的部隊。

You call that an authoritarian march and that.

你稱之為威權的遊行，還有那個。

But at the end of the day, 300 guardsmen still came to Chicago.

但最終，還是有三百名國民兵來到了芝加哥。

You know, Trump got the show he wanted to.

你知道，川普得到了他想要的場面。

What do you think was the tangible impact of that playbook you're laying out?

你認為你正在闡述的 playbook 有什麼實質影響？

What do you think you all succeeded in resisting?

Well, he federalized our National Guard, but was not allowed to deploy them in our streets.

不過，他把我們的國民兵聯邦化了，但卻不能派他們到街上。

They were never deployed in the city of Chicago.

他們從來沒有被派到芝加哥市。

They had to stay on a federal base until it was determined by the court that indeed, including the Supreme Court, that indeed, he doesn't have the ability to send his, you know, federalized National Guard or my National Guard into our streets.

他們必須待在聯邦基地，直到法院，包括最高法院，裁定他確實沒有權力派他的、你知道的，聯邦化的國民兵或我的國民兵到我們的街上。

I wonder if the implication here is somewhat that blue states have been too timid in pushing back against Trump.

我很好奇，這是不是暗示了藍州在抵抗川普方面太過膽怯了？

Is a kind of call to action for other Democratic states.

是對其他民主黨州的行動呼籲。

Well, it's certainly true that we've got to stand up and push back.

嗯，我們確實必須站出來抵抗。

And I'm talking about peaceful protests and encouraging people to do, as I've described, to video everything, to stand up.

我說的是和平示威，並鼓勵大家像我說的，錄下所有畫面，站出來。

And by the way, I know that, you know, protesters hold up signs and they say, you know, maybe the law enforcement agents feel like, oh, it's, you know, terrible things they're saying.

而且順帶一提，我知道，你知道，抗議者會舉牌說，你知道，執法人員可能會覺得，喔，他們說的都是些，你知道，很糟糕的事情。

But that is what protest is about, Right?

I mean, people showing up and making their voices heard, and

我的意思是，人們出現並發聲，

it's very important for us to protect that.

But when you see some scenes in Minneapolis, I mean, I know you've encouraged what you're describing as, you know, peaceful protests, accountability for officers.

但當你看到明尼阿波利斯的一些畫面，我的意思是，我知道你鼓勵你所說的，你知道，和平抗議，要求官員問責。

Trump administration has argued that that type of organized resistance has escalated tensions.

川普政府認為，那種有組織的反抗加劇了緊張局勢。

Is there any concern that in encouraging what you're calling citizen accountability, that's also escalating the possibility of some of the clashes we saw in Minnesota?

你鼓勵你所說的公民問責，這是否也可能加劇我們在明尼蘇達州看到的衝突的可能性？

So peaceful protests seems like the least you could do.

所以和平抗議似乎是你能做的最基本的事。

And what we should be encouraging people to do, they've you know, they've shot somebody here in Chicago five times for just observing from her car.

而我們應該鼓勵大家做的事，你知道，他們在這裡的芝加哥，因為只是從車裡觀察，就對一個人連開五槍。

And also another man, Silverio Vegas Gonzalez, who was killed after dropping his two children off at daycare.

還有另一位名叫 Silverio Vegas Gonzalez 的男子，他在送完兩個孩子去日託後被殺害。

但重要的是，我們應該如何應對？

And, you know, shouldn't we, shouldn't people peacefully protest, for goodness sakes, and

而且，我們不應該，為了上帝的份上，人們不應該和平抗議，

I mean, take them to court, fight them in every way we can.

我的意思是，把他們告上法庭，用我們能做到的所有方式與他們鬥爭。

Looking ahead to the midterms, we talk to election experts and they say, you know, our kind of decentralized system is maybe is too disparate to be hacked, or that you may maybe that some of these fears of Trump taking over the midterms are a little overblown.

展望期中選舉，我們採訪了選舉專家，他們說，你知道，我們這種分散式的系統可能太分散了，不容易被駭，或者你可能會覺得川普掌控期中選舉的這些擔憂有點被誇大了。

I wanted to see, like, how worried should the public be about this kind of question of fraud.

我想知道，大家對這種舞弊問題應該有多擔心？

Is there any case that this is, like, you know, Democrats playing politics on that question?

有沒有這種情況，就是，你知道，民主黨員在這件事上搞政治操作？

Look, my belief is that our obligation is to make sure we don't have a democracy if people can't vote, and

聽著，我認為我們的義務是確保如果人們不能投票，我們就沒有民主，

we're trying to protect that even in the face of the onslaught.

我們正努力在面對攻擊時保護它。

And who could have imagined that he'd be talking about or even trying to deploy troops to do these kinds of things?

誰能想到他會談論甚至試圖部署軍隊來做這些事？

I didn't imagine it before the 2020 elections and the aftermath of it in January 6, for goodness sakes.

在 2020 年選舉及其後的 1 月 6 日事件之前，我從沒想過，天啊。

So now, you know, I think everybody, and I want to pay attention.

所以現在，你知道，我想每個人，而且我想要關注。

I want people to pay attention, especially to the election of secretaries of state in states where the secretary of state is in charge of the voting.

我想讓大家特別關注那些州務卿負責投票的州的州務卿選舉。

And so we've got to protect those elections and elect people to secretary of state positions who believe in democracy and who are going to protect people's votes.

所以我們必須保護這些選舉，並選出相信民主、會保護人民選票的州務卿。

You know, I want to ask about the specific issue of immigration beyond kind of what Trump is doing.

我想問的是，除了川普的做法之外，關於移民的具體問題。

You know, Democrats have also been a part of funding and expanding ICE over the years.

你知道，民主黨員多年來也一直參與資助和擴大ICE。

President Barack Obama gave Trump's border czar, Tom Homan, a top citizen honor for his work on immigration and deportations in 2015.

歐巴馬總統在2015年曾因川普的移民執法官Tom Homan在移民和驅逐出境方面的工作，授予他最高公民榮譽。

I remember Democrats on the presidential campaign trail agreeing that illegal immigration was a problem.

我記得在總統競選期間，民主黨人曾同意非法移民是一個問題。

Cities, even like Chicago, have struggled with an increase of undocumented migrants in recent years.

像芝加哥這樣的城市，近年來也因為非法移民的增加而面臨困難。

I remember my family who, you know, lives in the suburbs here, talking about how they see more people on the street over the last, like, four or five years.

我記得我的家人，你知道，住在這裡的郊區，他們談論在過去四年或五年裡，他們看到街上的人越來越多。

Yeah, it's straying things beyond public safety, but also kind of social services.

是的，這不僅僅是公共安全問題，也牽涉到社會服務。

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普立茲克：這位億萬富翁將挑戰川普｜今日解析 (JB Pritzker: the billionaire taking on Trump | Today, Explained)

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