Name: 澤倫斯基會晤歐洲及北約領袖後，烏克蘭將與美國分享修訂版和平計畫 | DW新聞 (Ukraine to share revised peace plan with US after Zelenskyy meets European and NATO heads | DW News)
Uploaded: 2025-12-09T16:56:44.000Z
Duration: 9 min 52 s

A revised peace plan for Ukraine will soon be on its way to the US for consideration.

一份修訂過的烏克蘭和平計畫即將送往美國審議。

That is what Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy said late on Monday after talks with allies in London.

這是在倫敦與盟友會談後，烏克蘭總統弗拉基米爾·澤倫斯基週一晚間表示的。

The meeting at number 10 Downing street also included leaders of Germany and France in an effort to show unity and support for Ukraine.

在唐寧街十號舉行的會議，也包括了德國和法國的領導人，目的是展現團結和對烏克蘭的支持。

Germany's Chancellor Friedrich Merz expressed criticism about some of the details in the latest peace proposal by the US and late on Monday, Zelenskyy left London for Brussels where he met for closed door talks with NATO chief Mark Rutte, European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen and European Council President Antonio Costa.

德國總理弗里德里希·梅爾茨對美國最新的和平提議中的一些細節表示批評，週一晚間，澤倫斯基離開倫敦前往布魯塞爾，與北約祕書長馬克·魯特、歐洲委員會主席烏爾蘇拉·馮德萊恩和歐洲理事會主席安東尼奧·科斯塔進行閉門會談。

Our correspondent Christine Mundois has been following this second meeting in Brussels for us tonight.

我們的記者克里斯蒂娜·蒙多伊斯今晚為我們追蹤了布魯塞爾的第二次會談。

It's been a busy day, Christine, for President Zelinsky, what have Ursula van der Leyen, what have NATO chief Mark Ruth and Volodymyr Zelinsky, what have they been discussing tonight?

澤倫斯基總統今天行程很滿，烏爾蘇拉·馮德萊恩、北約祕書長馬克·魯特和弗拉基米爾·澤倫斯基今晚都在討論些什麼呢？

Yeah, Brenton, you can add to the list Antonio Kosta, the president of the European Council.

是的，布倫頓，你還可以加上歐洲理事會主席安東尼奧·科斯塔。

You talked about the peace plan that the US has put forward or the amended version of it that the Ukrainians are now under pressure to accept.

你提到了美國提出的和平計畫，或是他們修訂的版本，而烏克蘭現在面臨接受的壓力。

And it's still unacceptable to the Ukrainians.

對烏克蘭人來說，這仍然是無法接受的。

We don't know the full details about that plan, but

我們還不知道那個計畫的全部細節，但是

there are certain things that the Ukrainian president has let out.

For example, again reiterating before leaving London for Brussels, talking about the fact that Kiev was not in a position legally to cede territory to Russia.

例如，他在離開倫敦前往布魯塞爾前再次重申，基輔在法律上無法割讓領土給俄羅斯。

So you can almost imagine that the issue of territory is still a sticking point even in the amended plan.

所以你可以想像，即使是修訂後的計畫，領土問題仍然是個癥結點。

That 28 peace plan, Brent, as you would know, had to see Ukraine ceding the Donbas to Russia.

布倫頓，你應該知道，那個28項和平計畫要求烏克蘭割讓頓巴斯給俄羅斯。

This is including territories that the Russians have not managed to successfully take.

這包括了俄羅斯尚未成功佔領的地區。

So what would have been happening in that meeting at the NATO Secretary General's private residence here in Brussels is to essentially try and hash out what would be the counter proposal, what is the Ukrainian European proposal that will be presented to Washington.

所以在布魯塞爾北約祕書長私人住所舉行的會議上，他們基本上是要試圖敲定烏克蘭將向華盛頓提出的反提案，也就是烏克蘭的歐洲提案。

It would involve the level of commitment from European states, the coalition, for example, that met in London.

這將涉及歐洲國家、例如在倫敦會晤的聯盟的承諾程度。

To what extent are they committed in the event of a peace agreement in European boots on the ground and other infrastructure that's needed.

在和平協議達成後，歐洲地面部隊和其他所需基礎設施的投入程度。

They would also have been working out the aspects that they would present to the United States as needed, backing that is needed to bolster any security guarantees for Ukraine.

他們也會擬定需要向美國提出的部分，以及為烏克蘭的任何安全保障提供支持所需的後盾。

Then of course, Brent, you can imagine that the immediate needs on the battlefield would have come up in that conversation.

布倫頓，你當然可以想像，戰場上的即時需求也會出現在這次的談話中。

We know that in the last few weeks the Ukrainians have taken heavy losses to the Russians and Ukraine's President again reiterating the call for the need for air defense and other support along those lines that could be provided by allies.

我們知道，過去幾週烏克蘭遭受了俄羅斯的慘重損失，烏克蘭總統再次重申了對防空和其他盟友可提供的支援的需求。

Christine, is there any news about the European Union using Russia's frozen assets here in the EU which in theory we know could help to arm Ukraine and maybe even rebuild the country.

克里斯蒂娜，關於歐盟在這裡使用俄羅斯在歐盟境內被凍結的資產，有沒有什麼消息？理論上我們知道這可以幫助武裝烏克蘭，甚至可能重建國家。

In fact, that's one of the things that Oslo von der Leyen gave an update on in the meeting that was held this evening.

事實上，這也是歐洲委員會主席烏爾蘇拉·馮德萊恩在今晚的會議上更新的內容之一。

The issue there is this Belgium has Belgium, excuse me, hasn't softened its stance.

那裡的問題是，比利時，抱歉，比利時並沒有軟化其立場。

If anything, the opposition in Belgium has only grown and Belgium matters here because the vast majority of those frozen assets are being held here by a financial clearinghouse That's Belgium base is called Euroclear.

相反，比利時的Opposition反而增長了，而比利時在這裡很重要，因為絕大多數被凍結的資產都由一家名為Euroclear的比利時金融結算公司持有。

And so Belgium's veto has been the challenge.

是以，比利時的否決權一直是個挑戰。

And there's no indication that the Belgians have moved on that particular position.

而且沒有跡象表明比利時在那個特定立場上有任何鬆動。

The Commission for its part has laid out a plan, broadly speaking.

委員會方面，大致上已經提出了一個計畫。

It sees the commercial banks that are holding the physical assets loan, the equivalent of the assets that they hold to the European Union interest free.

它讓持有實體資產的商業銀行，將他們持有的資產等值地無息借給歐盟。

The EU is responsible for paying back the banks.

Ukraine is responsible for paying back the eu.

The operating assumption is that Russia would have to pay reparations.

操作上的假設是，俄羅斯必須支付賠償。

Then there's a clever clause or caveat in the plan that says the lifting of sanctions on Russia will be contingent upon Russia paying the reparations loan.

計畫中還有一個巧妙的條款或但書，指出解除對俄羅斯的制裁，將取決於俄羅斯是否償還賠償貸款。

This will ultimately, if all goes to plan, see the Russians being forced to cede this money that is on the table.

如果一切按計畫進行，最終將看到俄羅斯被迫交出這筆擺在檯面上的錢。

Belgium is still not convinced and is still putting up opposition.

比利時仍然不買帳，而且還在持續反對。

They're going to have to find other ways to work around.

他們將不得不尋找其他方法來應對。

But you need to know now, Brent, that the Europeans are now they are essentially carrying the burden of financing, not just Ukraine's war effort, but

但你現在需要知道的是，布倫頓，歐洲人現在基本上正在承擔融資的重擔，不僅是烏克蘭的戰爭努力，還有

Just last week you had 250 million from the Dutch going to arms purchases, 100 million from the Germans to fix the broken infrastructure that's been destroyed, energy infrastructure by the Germans.

就在上週，荷蘭提供了兩億五千萬用於軍購，德國則提供了約一億來修復被摧毀的基礎設施，特別是能源基礎設施。

The, the pressure is starting to be felt here.

Ukraine has financing to go to March, April, the latest, and

烏克蘭的資金可以撐到三月、四月，最晚也是如此，

then there are serious questions about what happens after that.

之後就開始出現嚴重的問題，不知道接下來會怎麼樣。

Our very own Christine Munwell with the latest in Brussels tonight.

我們駐布魯塞爾的記者克里斯蒂娜·蒙多伊斯為您帶來最新消息。

克里斯蒂娜，一如往常，謝謝妳。

And our coverage continues now with our Kiev bureau chief, Nick Connolly.

接下來，我們的報導將由駐基輔的首席記者尼克·康諾利為您帶來。

He is bringing us the Ukrainian perspective this evening.

他將為我們呈現烏克蘭的觀點。

Nick, there were lots of high level talks with high level partners for President Zelensky today all on the same day.

尼克，今天總統澤倫斯基與許多重要夥伴進行了多場高層會談。

Well, there were lots of warm smiles, lots of embraces for the Cameras and the attempt to show a united front from Europe.

嗯，鏡頭前有很多溫暖的笑容和擁抱，他們試圖展現歐洲團結的形象。

I think those images were all aimed at one person in the White House to show that this is not just about Ukraine's position, that this is basically all the major NATO countries on one ticket, one agenda.

我認為這些畫面都是針對白宮的某個人，想表明這不只是烏克蘭的立場，而是所有主要的北約國家都站在同一陣線，有著相同的目標。

And I think they are trying to basically retake the agenda, to retake the initiative.

我認為他們正試圖重新掌握主導權，重新奪回主動權。

They've been basically blindsided by all the initiatives.

他們基本上被所有的倡議搞得措手不及。

Jared Kushner, Steve Wyckoff going and speaking to the Russians and then them basically finding out about the terms, often from the press.

賈裡德·庫許納、史蒂夫·威剋夫去和俄羅斯人談判，然後他們卻常常從媒體上得知談判內容。

And they are trying to show that they have something constructive to offer.

他們正試圖展現自己有建設性的提議。

They're going to come up with this revised plan, we understand tomorrow, whether or not it makes much of a difference, at least it is a show for Zelensky that he is still someone who can command that attention and that he is not asking for something that is totally out of the kind of out of the ballpark.

我們瞭解到他們明天會提出這個修正計畫，不管這計畫是否能帶來多大改變，至少這對澤倫斯基來說是一種展示，表明他仍然是能引起關注的人，而且他提出的要求並非完全不切實際。

This is basically Europe's consolidated position.

這基本上是歐洲整合後的立場。

You know, beyond these pledges of support and the good optics that we saw today, what does Ukraine need from Europe right now?

你知道的，除了這些支持的承諾和我們今天看到的良好形象之外，烏克蘭現在最需要歐洲的是什麼？

Well, obviously it needs cash, as we heard from Christine, that there are significant financial needs even this year, let alone next year, in terms of, for instance, the money that Ukraine needs to buy US weapons, weapons that it would previously have got for free as aid or maybe long term loan under the Biden administration are now having to be paid for upfront in cash.

嗯，很明顯地，烏克蘭需要現金，就像我們從克里斯蒂娜那裡聽到的，即使是今年，更不用說明年，烏克蘭在購買美國武器方面都有龐大的財務需求，這些武器以前在拜登政府時期可以免費獲得援助或長期貸款，但現在卻必須預先付現。

而這筆錢很多時候是歐洲提供的。

Obviously Ukraine still wants more European weapons.

顯然烏克蘭仍然想要更多歐洲的武器。

Some of the kind of missile systems that Germany has, France, UK have to try and slow down Russia's advance by attacking Russian logistics, often on Russian territory.

像是德國、法國、英國擁有的那種飛彈系統，用來攻擊俄羅斯的後勤補給，經常在俄羅斯境內，試圖減緩俄羅斯的推進。

And I think obviously, you know, more cash.

而且我認為，很明顯地，你知道的，更多的現金。

The opportunity, obvious source there is, as we heard, therefore, Christine, those frozen Russian assets, a real push there from the Europeans to convince Belgium that it will not be left alone if it has to deal with Russian legal proceedings in the future.

正如我們聽到的，是以，克里斯蒂娜，那個明顯的資金來源就是那些被凍結的俄羅斯資產，歐洲方面正大力推動，說服比利時，如果未來必須處理俄羅斯的法律訴訟，它不會孤單。

And that, you know, it can take that big leap and not just freeze the assets has been the case.

而且你知道的，它可以採取那個大膽的舉動，而不僅僅是凍結資產，就像過去那樣。

But actually to hand them over to allow Ukraine to plan a bit more long term, because that's the big problem.

但實際上是將它們交給烏克蘭，讓烏克蘭能更長遠地規劃，因為這是個大問題。

Ukraine has been getting a lot of money from its European allies, but

烏克蘭從歐洲盟友那裡收到了很多錢，但

it's often piecemeal and it's very difficult to plan ahead.

這些錢常常零零散散，很難提前規劃。

And you know, arms deliveries take years.

而且你知道的，武器交付需要好幾年。

This is something you need to plan and not just something that you can order last minute and hope to arrive in next few weeks.

這是需要規劃的事情，不是你臨時下單就能希望在接下來幾週內收到的。

Nick, how much of a two way street is all of this?

尼克，這一切的雙向交流有多少？

What does Europe get out of all of this support for Ukraine?

歐洲從這所有對烏克蘭的支持中獲得了什麼？

Well, certainly if you talk to German military people, let alone people from the Baltic, say they are convinced that Russia is going to be a threat to them in the near future.

嗯，當然，如果你跟德國軍方人士聊聊，更不用說波羅的海國家的人了，他們都深信俄羅斯在不久的將來會對他們構成威脅。

As soon as Russia has a couple of years to rebuild its army, to, to build up its resources again to save money to buy all the spare parts, it will be a threat to Europe, maybe in a hybrid way like we've seen before.

一旦俄羅斯有幾年的時間重建軍隊，再次建立資源，省錢購買所有備件，它就會對歐洲構成威脅，也許是以我們以前見過的那種混合方式。

But there are real fears that it could try and basically revise what happened in Europe after 1990 and try and push back the borders of NATO, maybe try and reset its control of the Baltic states.

但確實有人擔心，俄羅斯可能會試圖推翻1990年後在歐洲發生的事情，並試圖推回北約的邊界，也許試圖重新控制波羅的海國家。

So there are very real fears that as long as Ukraine is fighting, Europe has a bit of time to prepare.

所以，確實有人非常擔心，只要烏克蘭還在戰鬥，歐洲就有點時間來準備。

But as soon as Europe is confronted with Ukraine that's no longer fighting, that maybe is then struggling to deal with an unfair peace settlement, that Russia will then turn its attentions further West.

但一旦歐洲面對不再戰鬥的烏克蘭，或許正在掙扎於處理一個不公平的和平協議，俄羅斯屆時就會將注意力轉向西方。

I know we've spoken, Nick, many times about the need or the call from Europeans to have more influence in how a peace in Ukraine is going to be reached and it's going to be established.

我知道我們曾多次談過，尼克，歐洲人呼籲在烏克蘭的和平如何達成和建立上擁有更多影響力。

How likely is it that the unity that was shown today, these meetings today, are they bringing Europe any closer to being at the table?

今天展現的團結，今天的會議，它們能讓歐洲更接近參與談判的機會有多大？

I think it will really depend what kind of hard power Europe is actually able to project.

我認為這將完全取決於歐洲實際能展現出什麼樣的硬實力。

Is Europe able to deal with those questions and those fears from Belgium and actually organize serious amounts of cash for Ukraine to allow Ukraine to keep on fighting?

歐洲有能力處理來自比利時的這些問題和擔憂，並為烏克蘭組織認真的資金，讓烏克蘭能夠繼續戰鬥嗎？

Is Europe really serious about providing peacekeepers, peacekeepers that actually would be in harm's way, as Keir Starmer once put it, on the front lines?

歐洲是否真的認真考慮提供維和部隊，那些真正會身處險境的維和部隊，正如基爾·斯塔默曾說過的，在前線？

Or will it, at most send some people to sit in Kyiv to free up the Ukrainian army to stand along the front lines?

或者，充其量只是派一些人去基輔，讓烏克蘭軍隊能夠站在前線？

這一切都還未解決，也還不明朗。

That is all still unresolved and unclear.

我們知道德國對於維和部隊的想法有很多擔憂，並試圖向德國民眾解釋，法國、英國和其他國家在這方面則比較強硬。

We know that in Germany there are lots of worries about the idea of peacekeepers and trying to explain that to the German public, France, the uk, other countries have been a bit more hawkish on that.

But I think until Europe is really able to demonstrate that it can do hard power and not just warm words, I think that'll be all under a big question mark.

但我覺得，除非歐洲真的能展現出強硬實力，而不只是空泛的口號，否則一切都還會是個大問號。

TW is Nick Connolly with the latest from Kiev tonight.

我是 Nick Connolly，為您帶來基輔的最新消息。