Name: 敘利亞臨時政府是在平息還是在助長教派暴力？| DW新聞 (Is Syria's interim government quelling or fueling sectarian violence? | DW News)
Uploaded: 2025-07-18T17:35:12.000Z
Duration: 21 min 16 s

Hundreds of people have been killed in the fighting in Suwayda province.

數百人在蘇韋達省的戰鬥中喪生。

Syria's interim government, which took over after the fall of the Assad regime, now faces the challenge of unifying a country divided along ethnic and religious lines.

敘利亞臨時政府在阿薩德政權倒臺後接管了政權，現在面臨的挑戰是如何統一一個因種族和宗教而分裂的國家。

On the streets of Damascus, the partial destruction of the defence ministry by Israeli airstrikes is a reminder of the sustained threat of violence.

在大馬士革街頭，以色列的空襲部分摧毀了國防部，這提醒人們暴力威脅持續存在。

After days of clashes between Druze, Bedouin tribes and government forces that drew in Syria's neighbour.

敘利亞鄰國德魯茲人、貝都因部落和政府軍之間發生了多日衝突。

Speaking on Thursday, the country's interim president, Ahmed al-Sharar, said the Druze were a fundamental part of the fabric of the nation.

該國臨時總統艾哈邁德-沙拉爾（Ahmed al-Sharar）在週四的講話中說，德魯茲教徒是國家結構的重要組成部分。

The Syrian state is the state for everyone.

It is the dignity and the pride of the homeland.

It is the dream of every Syrian to see their homeland rebuild itself again.

看到自己的家園再次重建，是每個敘利亞人的夢想。

Al-Sharar, a former member of an al-Qaeda linked group, may have promised to be a president for all, but his government faces a litany of challenges.

阿爾-沙拉爾曾是一個與基地組織有關聯的組織的成員，他可能承諾要成為一個為所有人服務的總統，但他的政府面臨著一連串的挑戰。

Syria's population, of almost 24 million people, is ethnically and religiously diverse.

敘利亞人口將近 2 400 萬，具有種族和宗教多樣性。

According to the World Factbook, the largest group is Arabs making up 50%, Alawites is the second largest at 15%, Kurd and Levantine people make up 10% each.

根據《世界概況手冊》，最大的群體是阿拉伯人，佔 50%，阿拉維人是第二大群體，佔 15%，庫爾德人和黎凡特人各佔 10%。

Muslims are by far the largest religious group, but can be subdivided into Sunni 74%, with Shia, Alawi and other offshoots making up the remaining 13%.

穆斯林是迄今為止最大的宗教群體，但又可細分為遜尼派佔 74%，什葉派、阿拉維派和其他分支佔其餘 13%。

The Druze, who are at the centre of the latest outbreak of violence, make up just 3% of the  These complex demographics have proved a challenge since the fall of President Assad at the end of last year.

自阿薩德總統於去年年底垮臺以來，這些複雜的人口結構已被證明是一項挑戰。

A Reuters investigation found almost 1,500 Alawites were murdered in a three-day massacre on Syria's Mediterranean coast in March.

路透社的調查發現，在 3 月份敘利亞地中海沿岸為期三天的大屠殺中，近 1500 名阿拉維派教徒被殺害。

They say it was carried out by groups loyal to the new government in Damascus.

他們說，這是忠於大馬士革新政府的組織所為。

Amnesty International says the killings must be investigated for war crimes.

大赦國際稱，必須以戰爭罪對屠殺事件進行調查。

There have also been a number of terror attacks claimed by the Islamic State.

此外，還發生了多起伊斯蘭國宣稱的恐怖襲擊事件。

The latest took place at a church in Damascus last month, killing 25 and wounding dozens more.

最近一次發生在上個月大馬士革的一座教堂，造成 25 人死亡，數十人受傷。

The country also has an economy broken by over a decade of civil war and international sanctions.

該國的經濟也因十多年的內戰和國際制裁而支離破碎。

Zidoune Al-Zoubi is a Syrian governance and peace-building expert here in Berlin.

祖比（Zidoune Al-Zoubi）是駐柏林的敘利亞治理與和平建設專家。

He told me more about the state of the ceasefire.

Unfortunately, after the President's speech, we have talked about how some ceasefire takes place, which took place actually for a couple of hours.

不幸的是，在總統講話之後，我們談到了如何實現停火的問題，停火實際上進行了幾個小時。

And then we really witnessed so many really terrible pictures of civilians killed in the city of Suida from the Jewish community.

然後，我們真的目睹了許多非常可怕的照片，照片中的平民在蘇伊達市的猶太社區被殺害。

And unfortunately, apparently in retaliation of this, Jewish factions and forces attacked Bedouin families in the city and in the suburbs of the governorate of Suida.

不幸的是，顯然是為了報復，猶太派別和部隊襲擊了該市和蘇伊達省郊區的貝都因人家庭。

And also terrifying pictures of people being killed and tortured from the Bedouin part have shaken really the nation.

貝都因人被殺害和折磨的恐怖照片也震撼了整個國家。

And again, now in retaliation, just a couple of minutes ago, we heard that the Bedouin armed forces are regathering.

同樣，作為報復，就在幾分鐘前，我們聽說貝都因武裝力量正在重新集結。

And there were calls for the Bedouin, for the tribes and the Bedouin armed forces from all over the country, from Deir ez-Zor in the northeast and from Aleppo in the northwest and north country, in the north of the country, are all gathering around Suida to retaliate.

全國各地的貝都因人、貝都因部落和貝都因武裝部隊，包括東北部的代爾祖爾、西北部的阿勒頗和北部的北國，都在呼籲聚集在蘇伊達周圍進行報復。

Now, this is going to sound like an odd question.

現在，這個問題聽起來有點奇怪。

But what we have seen with conflicts on the ground in the Middle East is that a ceasefire is declared.

但我們在中東的實地衝突中看到的情況是，停火已經宣佈。

There is still shooting, but the parties involved seem largely to accept that you will never get an absolute ceasefire.

雖然仍有交火，但有關各方似乎基本上都接受了這一事實，即永遠不可能實現絕對停火。

Or are you effectively saying, no, the ceasefire hasn't worked.

或者說，你實際上是在說，不，停火沒有奏效。

If it held, it only held for a couple of hours.

即使能維持，也只能維持幾個小時。

There is no real ceasefire as such, because real ceasefire requires two parties of the parties involved in the conflict to agree, sit at the table and discuss and say, OK, fine, we come to an agreement and we have ceasefire.

並不存在真正意義上的停火，因為真正的停火需要衝突雙方達成一致，坐在桌前討論，然後說，好吧，我們達成協議，停火。

Even such ceasefires did not hold for long in the Middle East.

即使這樣的停火在中東也維持不了多久。

But the ceasefire that took place this morning was from the side of the government.

但今天上午發生的停火是來自政府方面的。

But then the retaliation came from the Jewish armed forces.

但隨後，猶太武裝部隊進行了報復。

And then again, now the Bedouins are launching again another attack.

現在，貝都因人又再次發動了攻擊。

So there is no real ceasefire because there are no talks.

是以，沒有真正的停火，因為沒有會談。

Or do the three, I think there were three religious leaders among the clans there who were supposedly trying to sort things out.

或者是那三位，我想在那裡的部族中有三位宗教領袖，據說他們正試圖理清事情的來龍去脈。

Or do we just sit back and watch people kill each other?

I believe I'm afraid, and I hope I'm mistaken.

我相信我害怕了，但願我錯了。

I'm afraid things have gone out of control.

Because if the government now sends forces to the south to separate the Bedouins from the Druze and stop them killing and retaliation, then Israel will bomb the government forces as it did yesterday and the day before yesterday.

因為如果政府現在派部隊去南部把貝都因人和德魯茲人分開，阻止他們的殺戮和報復，那麼以色列就會像昨天和前天那樣轟炸政府軍。

So the government will not send after the agreement, so quote unquote, between the Americans, the Israelis, and the Assyrian government.

是以，在美國人、以色列人和亞述政府達成協議後，政府將不會派遣人員。

So if the government does not send, then it is just left for people from both sides fighting against each other.

是以，如果政府不派人，就只能由雙方的人互相爭鬥。

If the government is not allowed to go there to separate and again behave like a government, then how can we stop that?

如果不允許政府去那裡分離，再次表現得像個政府，那麼我們怎麼能阻止這種情況呢？

From my point of view, we are at a very, very, very delicate moment.

在我看來，我們正處於一個非常、非常、非常微妙的時刻。

That was Zidoun al-Zoubi, who's a Syrian governance and peace-building expert.

這就是敘利亞治理與和平建設專家齊杜恩-祖比（Zidoun al-Zoubi）。

Let's pick up some of those points with Ibrahim al-Assil, who's a senior fellow at the Atlantic Council.

下面我們請大西洋理事會高級研究員易卜拉欣-阿西爾（Ibrahim al-Assil）來談談其中的一些觀點。

How delicate is the point at which Syria finds itself now?

I think Mr. al-Zoubi eloquently described what's happening, and he mentioned that it's a very delicate moment.

我認為祖比先生雄辯地描述了正在發生的事情，他提到這是一個非常微妙的時刻。

Indeed, it's a very delicate moment, that it's going to shape not only Syria, but a big part of the region, because Israel is part of this, and the future of Syria will affect the future of the region.

事實上，這是一個非常微妙的時刻，它不僅會影響敘利亞，而且會影響該地區的很大一部分，因為以色列是其中的一部分，敘利亞的未來將影響該地區的未來。

If Syria is unstable, if there is more instability inside Syria, that's going to be reflected on most of the region.

如果敘利亞不穩定，如果敘利亞國內更加不穩定，這將反映到該地區的大部分國家。

And finally, the divisions that are being deepened inside Syria every day and within every single cycle of violence, those will stay there.

最後，敘利亞國內的分歧每天都在加深，每一輪暴力循環都在加劇，這些分歧將繼續存在。

Those wounds won't disappear in a week or a month after these fighting stop.

戰鬥停止後，這些傷口不會在一週或一個月內消失。

It will stay there in the collective memory, and that's really endangering Syria and its future.

它將留在人們的集體記憶中，這確實會危及敘利亞及其未來。

How do we step back from the brink, or must it descend in the manner that you've described?

我們該如何從懸崖邊後退，還是必須以您所描述的方式墜落？

That's an excellent question, and the answer has many folds.

這是一個很好的問題，答案有很多方面。

But to start with, there is a need for a ceasefire across the Syrian territories, and everybody should comply with that ceasefire.

但首先，需要在敘利亞全境實現停火，每個人都應遵守停火。

And then we need a real national dialogue.

然後，我們需要一場真正的全國對話。

There was a national dialogue that happened early on after the fall of the Assad regime, but it was a quick one because of the conditions and because of the circumstances.

阿薩德政權垮臺後，很早就開展了全國對話，但由於當時的條件和環境，對話很快就結束了。

There is a need for a long process that might take months, it might take even longer, but Syrians with all different factions and communities and ethnicities and religions, they do need to sit around at the table and air those differences to find an equation for power sharing.

這需要一個漫長的過程，可能需要幾個月，也可能需要更長的時間，但敘利亞人有著不同的派別、社區、種族和宗教，他們確實需要圍坐在桌前，消除這些分歧，找到權力分享的等式。

And finally, there is also a need in a Syrian state.

最後，敘利亞也需要一個國家。

There is a need for a consensus that Syria needs a central state.

敘利亞需要一箇中央國家，這一點需要達成共識。

That doesn't mean it's a dictatorial state.

這並不意味著它是一個獨裁國家。

There is absolutely a need for decentralization, but also there is a need to rebuild the institutions in Damascus, and Syria's neighbors need to allow that.

絕對需要權力下放，但也需要重建大馬士革的機構，敘利亞的鄰國也需要允許這樣做。

With the current trajectory of Israel, that's undermining all the Syrian efforts to rebuild the Syrian institutions.

按照以色列目前的軌跡，這將破壞敘利亞重建敘利亞機構的所有努力。

You covered a lot of ground there, and thank you for that.

Let me just pick up on one of the points that you mentioned, this need for a national dialogue.

請允許我談談您提到的一點，即開展全國對話的必要性。

Is the current interim government trusted sufficiently to conduct that national dialogue?

目前的臨時政府是否有足夠的信任來開展全國對話？

I don't think any side inside Syria is fully trusted, but the national dialogue will be a tool to rebuild the trust.

我認為敘利亞國內沒有任何一方得到完全信任，但全國對話將是重建信任的工具。

The national dialogue is needed to bridge the Syrian communities because of the lack of the trust.

由於缺乏信任，需要通過全國對話來溝通敘利亞各族群。

And everything we're witnessing on the ground today is a reflection of that lack of trust between all the Syrian communities because of the totalitarian regime that Syrians lived under for four or five and six decades that really destroyed the social fabric.

我們今天在當地看到的一切，都反映出敘利亞各族群之間缺乏信任，因為敘利亞人在極權制度下生活了四、五、六十年，這種制度真正摧毀了社會結構。

So if the government in Damascus today calls for a national dialogue, that will help it to rebuild the trust.

是以，如果大馬士革政府今天呼籲舉行全國對話，這將有助於重建信任。

Otherwise, gradually, they might just become another warlord in Syria and we go back into a phase of total fragmentation.

否則，漸漸地，他們可能會成為敘利亞的另一個軍閥，我們又會回到一個四分五裂的階段。

讓我們來談談以色列在其中扮演的角色。

Where does the government in Damascus go from here?

Do they give in to Israel's demands for what they called demilitarization of the south of the country and allow Suwayda to return to its sort of semi-autonomous state?

他們是否會屈服於以色列提出的將該國南部非軍事化的要求，允許蘇韋達恢復半自治狀態？

The role of Israel in Syria over the last month since the fall of Assad has been very destructive and not allowing a Syrian national government to emerge.

自阿薩德下臺以來的一個月裡，以色列在敘利亞所扮演的角色極具破壞性，不允許敘利亞民族政府出現。

One of the reasons is what you just mentioned that they're not allowing any heavy weaponry in southern Syria and that makes the task of the government to enforce order and to build a peace very challenging.

其中一個原因就是你剛才提到的，他們不允許在敘利亞南部使用任何重型武器，這使得政府執行秩序和建立和平的任務變得非常具有挑戰性。

And of course, I'm not saying that the behavior of the government was acceptable.

當然，我並不是說政府的行為是可以接受的。

But still, there is a need to be allowed to go to the south and to rebuild security forces there.

但仍有必要允許他們前往南部，在那裡重建安全部隊。

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敘利亞臨時政府是在平息還是在助長教派暴力？| DW新聞 (Is Syria's interim government quelling or fueling sectarian violence? | DW News)

delicate

presence

conflict

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