Let's look at spending first of all the US is the biggest individual spender by some margin This shows all military aid going into Ukraine and read the United States in blue every other country Combined that is a huge amount of cash for Europe and other countries To find very roughly to keep the same level of spending without the US Every other country would have to double his military support It's a big ask when there are so many pressures on public spending for the UK That's about 2.8 billion pounds extra every year then there's equipment This is a high Mars rocket launcher The US has provided 39 of these to Ukraine according to the Kiel Institute think tank European countries Combined have provided 43 similar systems.

首先，我們來看看支出情況，美國是最大的單個支出國，這顯示了所有對烏克蘭的軍事援助，並將美國改為藍色，其他國家則為藍色。根據基爾研究所（Kiel Institute）智庫的數據，美國已向烏克蘭提供了 39 個這樣的火箭發射器，歐洲國家總共提供了 43 個類似系統。

There are these long-range attack of missiles provided by Washington There are European alternatives like the British storm shadows But the Tacoms have been important for Ukraine's army and then there's ammunition a huge volume of artillery Has been used in this conflict.

有華盛頓提供的遠程攻擊飛彈，也有歐洲的替代品，比如英國的 "風暴陰影"，但 "塔科姆 "飛彈對烏克蘭軍隊很重要，還有彈藥，在這場衝突中使用了大量火炮。

The US has sent more than four and a half million rounds The EU previously missed its timetable for sending just 1 million Production in Europe has increased the EU's promised 2 million rounds in 2025 But some experts have questioned whether that pledge can be met now.

美國已經發送了四百五十多萬發子彈，而歐盟之前只發送了一百萬發子彈，錯過了時間表 歐洲的生產量已經增加，歐盟承諾在 2025 年發送兩百萬發子彈，但一些專家質疑現在能否實現這一承諾。

This is some of the quantifiable Support remember some of it isn't like intelligence assistance and the debate around support for Ukraine Raises other questions about US support for NATO This was what Elon Musk said over the weekend He thinks it's time for the USA to leave the Alliance and that would have a huge financial impact here We can see NATO member defense spending and read the United States in blue every other Country combined if the USA reduced or even ended its funding the impact would be Colossal even as European countries pledged to increase their defense spending That's Nick early from BBC verify there Well in Ukraine itself reports suggest that the country's current stockpile of weapons will last another six months MPs have already been discussing the consequences of America pausing its military aid there.

這是一些可量化的支持，請記住，其中一些並不像情報援助，圍繞支持烏克蘭的爭論引發了關於美國支持北約的其他問題 這是埃隆-馬斯克上週末所說的話，他認為美國是時候退出北約了，這將對北約產生巨大的財政影響。如果美國減少甚至終止對北約的資助，即使歐洲國家承諾增加國防開支，其影響也將是巨大的。

Our Ukraine correspondent is James Waterhouse There are ministers calling for calm.

我們的烏克蘭記者是詹姆斯-沃特豪斯（James Waterhouse）。

There are MPs Arguing that that if Ukraine is fighting for peace fighting for its survival Then president Zelensky should just go and sign this mineral deal should apologize should give America the repeated Thank yous it seems to be calling for if it's all in the name of Ukraine's continued survival but this is a political lever that has been most feared the last time this happened when American aid was slowed by Disagreements in the US Congress President Zelensky said Ukraine lost lives and land and there was a eastern town could have divka Which was once a fortress which fell because Ukrainian soldiers partly run out of kits That they needed to sustain their attack if you go to the western border in the country There are constant convoys of military aid coming in under police escort.

有議員認為，如果烏克蘭是為了和平而戰 為了生存而戰 那麼澤連斯基總統就應該去簽署這份礦產協議 應該道歉，應該給美國一再的感謝 如果這一切都是為了烏克蘭的繼續生存澤連斯基總統說，烏克蘭失去了生命和土地 東部的一個小鎮迪夫卡曾經是一個要塞 後來因為烏克蘭阿兵哥用完了他們進攻所需的部分物資而淪陷

They are an artery.

它們是一條條動脈。

They are much needed armor and ammunition Needed by Exhausted troops to keep fighting this full-scale invasion that Russia exerts.

它們是精疲力竭的部隊急需的裝甲和彈藥，以繼續抵抗俄羅斯的全面入侵。

So This is this has long been feared Seemingly it could be resolved in a political sense But at the moment and in the words of one Ukrainian advocacy group you've got Russia that's been given the green light to keep advancing which it is in the eastern Donetsk region You've got these reports of America, you know Look exploring a relaxation of sanctions trying to continue to warm relations with Moscow's it Deals directly with Moscow and all of the levers and pressure is being exerted on Ukraine as it's looking in both directions now James Walsh a house in Kiev there well in the last hour the European Commission president Ursula von der Leyen has been talking about a new plan to boost military and Help help Ukraine in the process we are in an era of rearmament and Europe is ready to massively boost its defense spending Both to respond to the short-term urgency to act and to support Ukraine But also to address the long-term need to take on more responsibility for our own European security lots of reaction, of course coming in this morning to the news of America suspending military aid to Ukraine We've also heard from the British government now the Deputy Prime Minister Angela Rayner Appearing on the BBC's today program speaking to Emma Barnett.

是以，這就是人們擔心已久的問題，似乎可以在政治意義上得到解決，但目前，用一個烏克蘭權益組織的話說，俄羅斯已經獲得了繼續推進的綠燈，它正在東部頓涅茨克地區推進、在過去一小時裡，歐盟委員會主席烏蘇拉-馮-德萊恩一直在談論一項新計劃，以加強軍事力量，並在這一過程中幫助烏克蘭。但同時也是為了應對長期需要，為我們自己的歐洲安全承擔更多責任、我們也聽到了英國政府的聲音 副首相安吉拉-雷納（Angela Rayner） 在英國廣播公司的今日節目中接受了艾瑪-巴尼特（Emma Barnett）的採訪。

This was her reaction.

這就是她的反應。

Let's have a listen We are focused on support for Ukraine bringing the u.s.

讓我們來聽一聽 我們的工作重點是支持烏克蘭，將美國帶入烏克蘭。

Around the table alongside our European partners in Ukraine We've put our money where our mouth is and stepped up our support for Ukraine through air defense through military Capabilities and through the military aid we give year upon year and the Prime Minister will not conduct dialogue on open airwaves He will continue to do what he's done in the last couple of days And the u.s Have said consistently that they want to see peace in Ukraine and the Prime Minister is focused on Getting that peace but also has made it really clear that the peace has to be Sustainable with security guarantees and that's what the Prime Minister is focused on That's the Deputy Prime Minister Angela Rayner there will lots to get through.

總理不會在公開的電波上進行對話，他將繼續做他在過去幾天所做的事情。這也是副總理安吉拉-雷納（Angela Rayner）所關注的。

Let's speak to our international editor Jeremy Bowen who joins us now Jeremy loads to talk about of course Let's start with your assessment of how you think what we heard from the White House will change an already Complicated picture when it comes to global relations over the war in Ukraine Well, first of all, the important thing to recognize is that this is really the most serious crisis in the history of the Transatlantic Alliance the Transatlantic relationship since it was formed during and after the Second World War.

讓我們來聽聽我們的國際編輯傑里米-鮑文（Jeremy Bowen）的看法，他現在加入我們的談話，傑里米-鮑文（Jeremy Bowen）將從你的評估談起，你認為我們從白宮聽到的消息將如何改變因烏克蘭戰爭而已經錯綜複雜的全球關係？ 首先，重要的是要認識到，這確實是跨大西洋聯盟（Transatlantic Alliance）歷史上最嚴重的危機，也是自第二次世界大戰期間和之後跨大西洋關係形成以來最嚴重的危機。

It is that big.

就是這麼大。

Why is it that big?

為什麼這麼大？

It's essentially because the Americans are now on an opposite side to the position of the Europeans as expressed in that summit in London over the weekend and Subsequently, of course people want peace.

這主要是因為美國人現在與歐洲人在上週末倫敦峰會上表達的立場站在了對立面，是以，人們當然希望和平。

Everyone will say yeah, of course.

當然，每個人都會說是的。

I want peace countries want peace But the issue is what is the price of peace is the price of peace as the Russians have said?

我希望和平，各國都希望和平，但問題是和平的代價是什麼？

Essentially Ukrainian capitulation and the Americans Appear to be sharing a lot of talking points They're definitely sharing a lot of talking points with with the Americans Or is it the kind of peace that was being talked about by Keir Starmer and others at the weekend as they very openly?

從本質上講，烏克蘭屈服了，美國人似乎分享了很多談話要點，他們肯定與美國人分享了很多談話要點，或者這就是基爾-斯塔默和其他人在週末公開談論的那種和平？

supported President Zelensky and that means that the Europeans and the British have been taking a very High profile role in all of this are essentially Trying to execute an extraordinarily difficult high wire act on the one side There's this support that they have for Ukraine and an offer to put boots on the ground Planes in the air and on the other side, there's the Americans who've been rather rude about this I mean JD Vance's comments Overnight where he was saying some countries that have not fought a war for 30 years Far better to have American financial interests there So to try to sustain that high wire act to to somehow keep Trump happy at the same time Not sell Ukraine down the river that might actually be impossible And Jeremy as we look at what is potentially as you say an impossible situation to work back from Is the only way the u.s.

這意味著歐洲人和英國人 在這一切中扮演了一個非常高調的角色 他們基本上是在嘗試執行一個非常困難的高空行動 一邊是他們對烏克蘭的支持 以及在地面上部署戰靴的提議我的意思是，JD-萬斯在一夜之間發表了評論，他說有些國家已經30年沒有打過仗了，美國在那裡的經濟利益要好得多，所以要想維持這種高空作業，讓特朗普滿意，同時又不把烏克蘭賣掉，這實際上是不可能的。s.

Might?

可能嗎？

Walk back on some of this if President Zelensky says, sorry because that's what some people have been speculating over Or indeed if he leaves the office well, yeah, it is extraordinary to say but there was a time until quite recently when American foreign policy was based on a system of alliances where People of course America put its own interests first, but where there were also shared interests now The idea is is is Trump's view which is America first which is essentially the rest of the world is raw material for America to do deals to get richer to be more powerful and it's as you know, it's a throwback to big powers in the 19th century when they would get together the British of course were one of those and just decide things for themselves send gunboats if necessary if not send traders and merchants and Yeah, so this is a really difficult serious Crisis and it may well be the unraveling of that alliance which has lasted for so long indeed And of course, we see European leaders We saw that the weekend that meeting in London for example trying to come up with some sort of plan We've seen that offer from France as well and the UK working with them on that Is that going to have any leverage with the u.s.

如果澤倫斯基總統說，對不起，這就是一些人一直在猜測的，或者如果他離開了辦公室，那麼，是的，說起來很不尋常，但直到最近，美國的外交政策一直建立在聯盟體系的基礎上，美國人當然把自己的利益放在第一位，但也有共同的利益，現在的想法是特朗普的觀點，即美國優先，本質上世界其他國家是美國的原材料，美國可以做交易，變得更富有，更強大，正如你所知道的，這是19世紀大國的迴光返照、英國當然也是其中之一，他們只是自己決定事情，必要時派出炮艦，不 必要時派出貿易商和商人，是的，所以這是一個非常困難的嚴重危機，它很 可能會瓦解這個

Will they sign up to that now?

他們現在會簽約嗎？

Well, it's hard to know perhaps I think the the action of Suspending armed shipments is undoubtedly by the Americans a gambit to try and get Solanski to the table But let's assume he does come to the table Let's assume me he goes to the White House sort of Mar-a-Lago cap in hand Says to you know, like a naughty schoolboy says to JD Vance or Donald Trump.

很難說，也許我認為暫停武裝運輸的行動無疑是美國人的一個賭注，目的是讓索蘭斯基回到談判桌上來，但讓我們假設他真的回到談判桌上來了，讓我們假設他去了白宮，就像手拿帽子的Mar-a-Lago，對你說，就像一個頑皮的小學生對JD Vance或唐納德-特朗普說的那樣。

Look, I'm terribly sorry for Sticking up for myself like that.

聽著，我為自己的行為感到非常抱歉。

I won't do it again won't happen again.

我不會再這樣做了，不會再發生了。

And where's that contract?

合同在哪裡？

I want to sign it and sign away a lot of mineral rights to the Americans What happens after that because when they get to the table?

我想在上面簽字，然後把大量礦產權轉讓給美國人。

Then the situation may well be if Vladimir Putin or his people are there that they will say look We've made it very clear what happens Ukraine needs to be Demilitarized we the Russians need to keep territory Will would the Ukrainian Zelensky or some successor accept that would Europe accept that after everything?

如果弗拉基米爾-普京或他的人在那裡，他們會說，我們已經說得很清楚了，烏克蘭需要非軍事化，我們俄羅斯人需要保留領土。

It's said about protecting Ukraine, there are so many imponderables but what makes it a lot more difficult to try to solve is the the There's a great lack of clarity now because of Trump and you can argue that in fact look The what was going on before and abide and wasn't going to work he gave Ukraine enough weapons not to lose But not to win either because he was worried about what the Russians might do.

關於保護烏克蘭的問題，有很多不可預知的因素，但更難以解決的是，由於特朗普的存在，現在情況非常不明朗，你可以爭辯說，事實上，看看之前發生了什麼，遵守和不遵守是行不通的，他給了烏克蘭足夠的武器，不會輸，但也不會贏，因為他擔心俄羅斯人可能會做什麼。

He took their nuclear threat seriously, so Trump supporters would say he's just being realistic and of course both sides are going to have to give something But at the moment the way the Americans are presenting it the givers of the Ukrainians and the takers are the Russians and also the Americans because of course another it's quite clear that another big priority of Donald Trump is mending America's relationship with Russia.

他認真對待了他們的核威脅，是以特朗普的支持者會說他只是實事求是，當然雙方都必須有所付出，但目前美國人的表述方式是，付出者是烏克蘭人，接受者是俄羅斯人和美國人，因為很顯然唐納德-特朗普的另一個重要優先事項是修補美國與俄羅斯的關係。

Yeah, and Jeremy you talk about Russia We're just seeing lines coming into us from the Kremlin from the Reuters news agency One here saying if the u.s.

是的，傑里米，你說到俄羅斯，我們剛剛看到路透社從克里姆林宮傳來的消息。

Stops these supplies it will be the best contribution to the cause of peace So Vladimir Putin presumably watching on With quite a lot of glee looking at what's been hot unfolding.

停止這些供應將是對和平事業的最好貢獻，是以普京大概會在一旁興高采烈地看著熱火朝天地展開的一切。

Yeah, I think for for Russia for peace read victory This is Christmas every day for them at the moment This is reflected in the things they put out in social media the way that the pro-putin media have been crowing with delight about what's happening and I've just spent a couple of weeks in Ukraine.

是的，我認為對俄羅斯來說，"和平 "就意味著 "勝利"，對他們來說，現在每天都是聖誕節，這反映在他們在社交媒體上發佈的資訊中，親普京的媒體對所發生的一切欣喜若狂，而我剛剛在烏克蘭待了幾個星期。

I only got back a few days ago and of course there's consternation there about What's happening and also I have to say from certainly soldiers I spoke to in areas near the Russian border Who had been fighting for example in Kursk, which is the area that the Ukrainians took from Russia?

我幾天前才回來，那裡的人們當然對發生的事情感到震驚，而且我不得不說，我在俄羅斯邊境附近地區接觸過的阿兵哥中，有誰曾經在庫爾斯克（烏克蘭人從俄羅斯奪取的地區）等地戰鬥過？

Back in last August.

早在去年八月

I mean, they're quite defiant They said what they're gonna fight on that drones are now Such a big part of the battlefield and they are that they can get by they don't necessarily What the Americans have got though they do accept the losing US intelligence losing air defenses Losing the ammo for these very sophisticated weapons.

我的意思是，他們相當挑釁 他們說，他們會打什麼 無人機現在是戰場的一個重要組成部分 他們是，他們可以得到的 他們不一定是美國人已經得到了什麼 雖然他們確實接受了失去美國情報

They've been given and the satellite information They need to acquire targets.

他們已經獲得了獲取目標所需的衛星資訊。

All of that is going to be very difficult for them But they are I mean do they do they're building a lot of their own weapons and I don't think The thing you have to remember is that for the Ukrainians?

所有這些對他們來說都很困難，但他們確實在製造自己的武器，我不這麼認為。

This is about existence, it's not about real estate It's not about well, maybe we can do a deal give Putin some land and he'll be satisfied They believe that Putin will never be satisfied until he's broken Ukrainian independence and sovereignty and certainly his own writings Suggest that is very much what he wants to do Jeremy we're hearing from some Ukrainian politicians that they believe they have enough military supplies at least for the next six months or so But you were just drawing on your experience having just returned from Ukraine and what we've seen in recent days is you know Huge number of drone attacks continuing on Ukraine a reminder, of course that while all these talks continue the war continues on I just wondered if I could get your assessment of how you see things going militarily Militarily, I should say given this news now as well.

這是關於生存，不是關於房地產，也不是關於 "好"、也許我們可以做個交易 給普京一些土地，他就會滿意 他們相信普京永遠不會滿意 除非他破壞了烏克蘭的獨立和主權 當然，他自己的著作也暗示 這是他非常想做的 傑里米，我們從一些烏克蘭政客那裡聽說 他們相信他們有足夠的軍事物資 至少在未來六個月左右當然，在所有這些談判繼續進行的同時，戰爭也在繼續，我只是想知道，如果我能得到您的評估，您認為軍事上的情況會如何發展？ 軍事上，我應該說，考慮到現在的這些新聞。

Well without American weapons.

沒有美國武器

It is going to be easier for the Russians There's no doubt about it.

毫無疑問，俄羅斯人的日子會好過一些。

I mean while I was in key, for example They had their worst The the biggest drone attack they'd had since the out the start of all this from the Russians The Russians have also been boasting about that on their own outlets And you know for hours that night in the capital city there were you could see searchlights going through the sky Old style anti-aircraft cannon firing tracer up at these drones and you can hear the drones as well I mean I could hear the drones very clearly when I was standing on the roof of our hotel doing lives for the BBC there so the situation is though that both sides actually are very good at this drone warfare now and The majority of casualties on both sides are being caused now by drones The shape of the war has changed since it began when you remember there were these Lines of tanks and there was old-fashioned heavy artillery going on.

我的意思是，當我在關鍵時刻，俄羅斯人也在他們自己的媒體上誇下海口 那晚在首都的幾個小時裡 你可以看到探照燈在天空中閃爍 老式的反飛機大炮向無人機發射曳光彈你也能聽到無人機的聲音 當我站在我們酒店的屋頂上 為BBC做現場報道時 我可以很清楚地聽到無人機的聲音 現在的情況是 雙方都很擅長無人機戰爭

It looked rather like World War two or World War one even It's different now because these drones are transforming things They're absolutely deadly and they make the they make even movement on the battlefield incredibly dangerous and difficult

現在不同了，因為這些無人機正在改變一切，它們絕對是致命的，它們甚至使戰場上的行動都變得無比危險和困難。