Now he's sharing his journey and how it began in his new memoir, Source Code.

現在，他在自己的新回憶錄《源代碼》中分享了自己的心路歷程以及如何開始的。

Please welcome for the very first time on The View, Bill Gates.

有請比爾-蓋茨首次做客《觀點》節目。

So first of all, welcome to The View.

首先，歡迎收看《觀點》。

Wow.

哇

But secondly, it's kind of great to have you at such an important time for the country because it seems like today's tech billionaires are shifting rightward and seem to have more power than even the VP, whose name I can't remember.

其次，在這個國家如此重要的時刻，能邀請到你真是太好了，因為如今的科技界億萬富翁們似乎正在向右轉，他們的權力似乎比副總統還要大，副總統的名字我都不記得了。

Well, there's no club of these people.

這些人沒有俱樂部。

We're, you know, kind of individual.

我們是，你知道的，一種個人。

And, you know, I'm very focused on global health and, you know, hope the transition to this administration doesn't interrupt some incredible work that's been going on.

而且，你知道，我非常關注全球健康問題，你知道，我希望向本屆政府的過渡不會中斷一直在進行的一些令人難以置信的工作。

Well, they had some VIP seating at the inauguration and we did notice you weren't there.

就職典禮上有貴賓席，我們注意到你不在。

What do you make of that visual?

你如何看待這一視覺效果？

You know, they clearly wanted to fund the inauguration.

要知道，他們顯然想為就職典禮提供資金。

They wanted it to be a great inauguration just for the good of the country, no doubt.

毫無疑問，他們只是為了國家的利益，希望就職典禮圓滿成功。

I feel we're calling you Bill, Mr. Gates.

我覺得我們在叫你比爾，蓋茨先生。

Shortly before President Trump took office, you had a three-hour dinner with him.

特朗普總統上任前不久，您曾與他共進三小時的晚餐。

And that's more FaceTime than, as you say, you had with Joe Biden during his presidency.

這比你說的喬-拜登擔任總統期間你和他的 FaceTime 還多。

And by your account, you say that you were impressed with him.

根據你的描述，你說你對他印象深刻。

What are you able to share about issues you discussed?

關於你們討論過的問題，你們有什麼可以分享的？

And since he's only been in office two weeks, but do you feel like what you discussed aligned with what you're seeing so far?

因為他才上任兩週，但你覺得你討論的內容與你目前看到的一致嗎？

Well, my two priorities in talking to President Trump were the global health issues, particularly HIV and polio.

我與特朗普總統交談的兩個重點是全球健康問題，尤其是艾滋病和脊髓灰質炎。

The voters have a lot to be proud of.

選民們有很多值得驕傲的地方。

You know, we've saved tens of millions of lives.

要知道，我們已經拯救了數千萬人的生命。

The number of children who die at the turn of the century is over 10 million a year, now down below 5 million.

在本世紀初，每年死亡的兒童人數超過 1 000 萬，現在已下降到 500 萬以下。

And things like HIV medicines, malaria bed nets are responsible for that and vaccines.

艾滋病毒藥物、瘧疾蚊帳和疫苗等都是造成這種情況的原因。

You know, so I was encouraging him to drive more innovation in those spaces.

我鼓勵他在這些領域進行更多創新。

We're still missing some vaccines.

我們還缺少一些疫苗。

And, you know, I felt we had a very good conversation.

你知道，我覺得我們的談話非常愉快。

Well, and you, Mr. Gates, you also called Elon Musk's political influence abroad, quote, insane, along with another word we can't repeat here.

蓋茨先生，你還說埃隆-馬斯克在國外的政治影響力是 "瘋狂的"，還有一個我們不能在此重複的詞。

But what's your take on his political access and influence here in America right now?

但您如何看待他目前在美國的政治門路和影響力？

Well, Elon, his private sector work, you know, has been very innovative, really fantastic.

埃隆在私營部門的工作非常創新，非常出色。

A lot of private sector people, when they get into government, they don't take the time necessarily to see what the good work is or what structure the way it is.

很多私營部門的人在進入政府部門後，並不一定會花時間去了解什麼是好的工作，什麼是好的結構。

So I'm a little worried, particularly with this USAID stuff.

所以我有點擔心，尤其是美國國際開發署的事情。

My foundation partners with USAID on nutrition and getting vaccines out.

我的基金會與美國國際開發署在營養和疫苗接種方面開展合作。

And, you know, there's incredible people.

而且，你知道，這裡有很多不可思議的人。

You know, they're not actually worms that work there.

要知道，在那裡工作的其實不是蟲子。

So, you know, hopefully we'll get some of that work back in shape.

所以，你知道，希望我們能恢復一些工作。

In fact, if we don't, you know, you could have literally millions of deaths.

事實上，如果我們不這樣做，就會有數百萬人死亡。

So, you know, people think, you know, wow, how much do we give these countries?

是以，人們會想，我們給了這些國家多少錢？

As you said, it's less than a percent.

正如你所說，這還不到百分之一。

People think it's five percent and it should be two percent, but it's actually under one percent.

人們認為是 5%，應該是 2%，但實際上還不到 1%。

Wow.

哇

And still saving lives.

而且還在拯救生命。

Well, your Gates Foundation is the biggest funder of vaccines in the world.

你們蓋茨基金會是世界上最大的疫苗資助者。

I think a lot of people don't recognize that.

我想很多人都沒有意識到這一點。

And it was key to developing the COVID vaccine.

這也是開發 COVID 疫苗的關鍵。

That has made you, unfortunately, a target of all kinds of baseless conspiracies, including from RFK Jr., who apparently does have a worm in his brain.

不幸的是，這讓你成為各種毫無根據的陰謀論的目標，包括小肯尼迪的陰謀論，顯然他的腦子裡確實有一條蟲子。

And he now claims he is not anti-vax.

而他現在卻聲稱自己不反疫苗。

Do you believe him?

你相信他嗎？

Well, we'll do our best to work with him.

我們會盡力與他合作。

Under his management is going to be the FDA, which is a fantastic regulator, you know, passing judgment on a lot of the new innovations we're funding.

在他的管理下，美國食品和藥物管理局（FDA）將成為一個出色的監管機構，你知道，它將對我們資助的許多新創新進行評判。

NIH does fantastic research.

美國國立衛生研究院的研究工作非常出色。

And so those have been partners of our foundation.

是以，這些都是我們基金會的合作伙伴。

And, you know, I hope the great scientists there get the support they deserve.

我希望那裡的偉大科學家們能得到應有的支持。

And just to follow up, before COVID, you say you spent the most sleepless nights worrying about pandemics.

再追問一下，在 COVID 之前，你說你最擔心大流行病，整夜整夜睡不著覺。

After COVID, has that changed?

在 COVID 之後，情況有變化嗎？

And if it has, what keeps you up now?

如果是這樣，是什麼讓你堅持到現在？

Because we all need to know.

因為我們都需要知道。

Yeah, the pandemic, sadly, was fairly predictable.

是啊，可悲的是，這次大流行是可以預見的。

And it won't be the last pandemic.

這不會是最後一次大流行。

The next one could be far more severe.

下一次可能會嚴重得多。

I mean, this one, it killed millions.

我是說，這一次，它殺死了數百萬人。

It was awful.

太可怕了

We got the vaccine.

我們接種了疫苗。

You know, actually, President Trump's leadership was factoring, getting that out quickly.

你知道，實際上，特朗普總統的領導力是一個因素，讓這一消息迅速傳出。

And so I, you know, when I spoke to him, I said, OK, here's some other medical innovations, including the thing called an HIV cure that could be accelerated.

是以，當我和他交談時，我說："好吧，這裡還有一些其他的醫學創新，包括可以加速的艾滋病治癒方法。

So, you know, we should be more prepared, both for a pandemic.

是以，我們應該做好更充分的準備，既要應對大流行病。

I'd say that's still number one.

我認為這仍然是第一位的。

You know, you can worry about nuclear war.

你知道，你可以擔心核戰爭。

You can worry about AI.

你可以擔心人工智能。

There's plenty to worry about.

要擔心的事情還多著呢。

Overall, I'm an optimist.

總的來說，我是一個樂觀主義者。

No, I mean, you know, it's up to the government to think ahead on behalf of the citizens.

不，我的意思是，你知道，應該由政府代表公民提前考慮。

So a pandemic, there's a lot that we should be doing that hopefully we'll get our act together before the next one comes.

是以，大流行病發生時，我們應該做的事情很多，希望我們能在下一次大流行病來臨前做好準備。

You know, overall, the innovation in health, both in the developing countries, the rich world, you know, I love being part of that.

總的來說，無論是在開發中國家還是在富裕國家，健康領域的創新，我都樂於參與其中。

I was reading, though, that you said the next pandemic you are predicting within maybe 25 years.

但我讀到，你說你預測的下一次大流行可能會在 25 年內發生。

Oh, certainly we'll have one in the next 25 years.

哦，我們肯定會在未來 25 年內擁有一個。

You know, there's even some pathogens out there that we're watching over right now.

你知道，我們現在甚至還在關注一些病原體。

You know, so maybe 10 percent chance in the next four years.

你知道，在未來四年裡，也許有百分之十的機會。

Well, let's talk about AI, which you mentioned.

好吧，讓我們來談談你提到的人工智能。

Last week, Silicon Valley and stocks were rocked by news that China's AI model may outperform ours at a fraction of the cost and quicker to develop it.

上週，有消息稱，中國的人工智能模式可能優於我們的人工智能模式，而開發成本僅為我們的一小部分，開發速度也更快，硅谷和股市為之震動。

You've been very, in the book, you're very optimistic about AI.

在書中，你對人工智能非常樂觀。

Are you still optimistic?

你還樂觀嗎？

And is the U.S. falling behind China in the AI race?

美國是否在人工智能競賽中落後於中國？

Well, the U.S. has done amazing work.

美國做了了不起的工作。

You know, both people born here and people who come here mean that we have more AI companies than even China has.

要知道，無論是在這裡出生的人還是來到這裡的人，都意味著我們的人工智能公司數量甚至超過了中國。

But we should never underestimate great innovation in China.

但我們決不能低估中國的偉大創新。

In many of the areas of science or getting product costs down, they do great work.

在許多科學領域或降低產品成本方面，他們都做得很出色。

They're 20 percent of the world's population.

他們佔世界人口的 20%。

So the fact that this turned the crank, they got ahead, that's not totally surprising.

所以說，這讓他們心動了，他們領先了，這並不完全令人驚訝。

The U.S. companies will, including OpenAI, will catch up and move ahead.

包括 OpenAI 在內的美國公司將迎頭趕上，勇往直前。

The pace of advance is pretty fantastic.

前進的步伐非常快。

And in many ways, that's going to help us in education and health delivery.

在許多方面，這將有助於我們的教育和醫療服務。

A lot of good things that can come out of this that aren't zero-sum, that, you know, having all countries have access, including poor countries, I think is very exciting.

我認為，這能帶來很多好的東西，而不是零和，你知道，讓所有國家，包括貧窮國家，都有機會獲得這些東西，是非常令人興奮的。

I have to ask you this because of my obsession with social media and where it's going.

我之所以要問你這個問題，是因為我對社交媒體的痴迷以及它的發展方向。

We noticed you haven't tweeted in a while, but this past weekend you joined TikTok, Bill Gates.

我們注意到你有一段時間沒發推特了，但上週末你加入了 TikTok，比爾-蓋茨。

Why did you join the platform?

您為什麼加入該平臺？

Where do you come down on the impact of social media more broadly, especially with meta-banning fact-checking?

你如何看待社交媒體的廣泛影響，尤其是對事實核查的元禁止？

Do you do dance numbers on TikTok?

你會在 TikTok 上跳舞嗎？

Whatever it takes to sell books, I'm available.

只要能賣書，我都願意。