Jae, just set the scene for us, tell me what it's been like since you've been there.

小賈，先給我們介紹一下情況，告訴我你去那裡之後的情況。

Hi, so this place, there are dozens and dozens of police officers, protesters, I see dozens of riot police vans and buses, and you can hear probably behind me the chanting, and people are chanting, you know, bring down the dictatorship, stop the martial law, and arrest President Yoon.

嗨，這個地方有幾十個警察，幾十個抗議者，我看到幾十輛防暴警察車和大巴，你可能能聽到我身後的呼喊聲，人們在呼喊，你知道，推翻獨裁統治，停止戒嚴，逮捕尹總統。

These people are against this martial law being enacted.

這些人反對頒佈戒嚴令。

I mean, this thing was a complete stunning moment.

我的意思是，這完全是一個令人震撼的時刻。

I think the general mood here is one of incredulity.

我認為這裡的普遍情緒是難以置信。

And we've heard that from just about everybody who has joined us here in the last couple of hours as this news has emerged, and no one was anticipating.

在過去的幾個小時裡，我們從幾乎所有加入我們的人那裡聽到了這個消息，沒有人預料到。

Has the news filtered out to the people around you that actually we've had a vote inside of the Parliament itself, and they have voted that this move is invalid?

你周圍的人是否已經知道，實際上我們已經在議會內部進行了投票，他們認為此舉無效？

Has that news spread out?

消息傳出去了嗎？

Yes, it has.

是的，確實如此。

So a lot of people here were watching the vote happening in the Parliament live on their YouTube, and as soon as the motion was passed, you heard loud cheer among the crowd, and a lot of people were saying, open the door now, open the gate now, and people are ready to go into the National Assembly.

是以，這裡的很多人都在 YouTube 上觀看議會的投票直播，動議一通過，你就會聽到人群中響起熱烈的歡呼聲，很多人都在說，快開門，快開門，人們已經準備好進入國民議會了。

And in terms of the National Assembly, earlier we saw just scenes of jostling, we saw soldiers, we think there are special forces soldiers inside the building.

就國民議會而言，早些時候我們看到的只是推搡的場面，我們看到了阿兵哥，我們認為大樓內有特種部隊阿兵哥。

Are you seeing large numbers of security?

您是否看到大量的安全資訊？

That's right.

這就對了。

I mean, most of the police officers here, I see easily hundreds of police officers all in their high-vis jackets, but they are not carrying any batons, they're not carrying a riot shield.

我的意思是，這裡的大多數警察，我看到動輒數百名警察都穿著高隱形夾克，但他們沒有攜帶任何警棍，也沒有攜帶防暴盾牌。

I saw some people who are carrying those, but the mood is for now quite peaceful.

我看到一些人拿著這些東西，但目前氣氛還算平靜。

I think the public is still kind of standing by, waiting to see what is going to happen.

我認為公眾仍在觀望，靜觀其變。

I spoke to a few experts today on what is going to happen, but none of them could really give an answer, because we are really in an uncharted territory.

我今天和幾位專家聊了聊未來會發生什麼，但他們都無法給出答案，因為我們確實處於一個未知的領域。

I mean, this hasn't happened since 1979.

我是說，這種情況自 1979 年以來從未發生過。

Yes, a lot of people looking now at what the military will do.

是的，現在很多人都在關注軍方會怎麼做。

If you have a stand-off between President and Parliament, the worry is that instructions will be given to the military to try to enforce his will.

如果總統和議會之間出現對峙，人們擔心的是軍方會接到指令，試圖強制執行總統的意志。

But do we know, I was asking Sumin who is here with me in the studio, but you're there, do we know even the whereabouts, geographically, physically, of where the President actually is as we're talking now?

但我們是否知道，我在問和我一起在演播室的蘇民，但你也在那裡，我們是否知道總統現在在哪裡？

Well, the best guess is that he's at his Yongsan presidential office, which is right in the middle of Seoul City.

最好的猜測是，他正在首爾市中心的龍山總統辦公室。

The thing is, a lot of people have to gather here because they wanted the police here, the military here, to let the lawmakers through, because the big fear was that the police will block the access of the National Assembly to prevent the motion to lift the announcement.

事情是這樣的，很多人不得不聚集在這裡，因為他們希望這裡的警察、這裡的軍隊能夠讓立法者通過，因為大家最擔心的是警察會阻擋國民議會的通道，阻止解除公告的動議。

So we actually heard the stories of a single lawmaker who had to hop over this one and a half meter fence to get into the Assembly Hall to participate in the vote, and police were blocking anybody from going in and out.

是以，我們實際上聽到了這樣的故事：一位立法者不得不跳過一米半高的圍欄才能進入大會堂參加投票，而警察則阻止任何人進出。

So that was a kind of widespread fear.

是以，這是一種普遍的恐懼。

Thankfully, the vote had taken place, but now the question is, will the President back down?

值得慶幸的是，投票已經進行，但現在的問題是，總統會退縮嗎？

Because this is a huge gamble for him.

因為這對他來說是一場巨大的賭博。

Going back to some of the politics, we were just talking to other contributors here who were talking about how politically his will was being thwarted.

回到一些政治問題上，我們剛剛與其他撰稿人進行了交談，他們談到了他的政治意願是如何被挫敗的。

Has that been evident that there was a standoff brewing?

這是否表明雙方正在醞釀對峙？

It was a week of very tense standoff.

這是非常緊張對峙的一週。

I mean, the headline for the last week has been dominated by all the tit-for-tat between the presidential office and the National Assembly here.

我的意思是，上週的頭條新聞主要是總統辦公室和國民議會之間的針鋒相對。

The mood between those two institutions have been the worst in recent years.

這兩個機構之間的關係是近年來最糟糕的。

And we saw the President escalating his rhetoric against the National Assembly, the National Assembly responding in kind, but no one could have predicted that President Moon would essentially go for the nuclear option.

我們看到總統對國會的言辭不斷升級，國會也做出了迴應，但沒人能預料到文在寅總統基本上會採取核選擇。

And Jake, tell me more about whether those people who have gathered with you know about some of the restrictions that he brought in with martial law.

傑克，告訴我更多關於那些與你聚集在一起的人是否知道他通過戒嚴令帶來的一些限制。

I mean, those restrictions even extend to the media.

我的意思是，這些限制甚至延伸到了媒體。

Have those details actually filtered out?

這些細節真的被過濾掉了嗎？

I think the people who are gathered here are ones who are very much invested in the political news of the country.

我認為，聚集在這裡的人都是非常關注國家政治新聞的人。

I mean, it is past 1.30 a.m. here.

我是說，現在已經是凌晨 1 點 30 分了。

Most of the people would be in bed.

大多數人都躺在床上。

Actually, when the news broke, a lot of people must have been in bed.

事實上，消息傳出時，很多人肯定都躺在床上。

And then people I saw, you know, when I first arrived here, there were dozens of people at the gate.

然後我看到的人，你知道，當我第一次來到這裡時，門口有幾十個人。

And now there are hundreds of people.

現在有數百人。

So these people had been glued to their phone, looking at every single update, looking at the YouTube videos of the live streaming.

是以，這些人一直盯著自己的手機，看每一條更新，看 YouTube 上的直播視頻。

Sorry.

對不起。

Yes, they are.

是的，就是這樣。

They are screaming for this martial law to be lifted.

他們高呼取消戒嚴令。

And there's a there's a there had been a real fear amongst the main opposition party circles that this might come to pass and that, you know, you would essentially press the button.

主要反對黨內部確實擔心這可能會成為現實，你知道，你基本上會按下按鈕。

And then I'm sure you have been talking about all these laws being suspended, like there's no technically there's no freedom of press.

然後，我相信你們一直在談論所有這些被中止的法律，就像技術上沒有新聞自由一樣。

As of now, there's no freedom in terms of the military can come and arrest you and search you without any warrants.

就目前而言，軍方可以在沒有任何搜查證的情況下逮捕你、搜查你，沒有任何自由可言。

So there had been huge anxiety amongst the general public.

是以，普通民眾中出現了巨大的焦慮。

And secondly, there had been also fake news going around that there might be a curfew from 11 p.m.

其次，坊間還流傳著一則假消息，說從晚上 11 點開始可能會實行宵禁。

So there has been a lot of confusion.

是以出現了很多混亂。

A lot of people have been glued to their phone all night.

很多人整晚都盯著手機。

And you there outside of the parliament, you know, you look at the last time this was done, some sort of martial law, and it was back in 1979.

你在議會外，你知道，你看上一次這樣做，某種戒嚴令，要追溯到1979年。

So in your lifetime, you won't have experienced anything like this.

所以，在你的一生中，你不會經歷過這樣的事情。

Everything is new in terms of what they've tried here overnight.

一夜之間，他們在這裡嘗試的一切都是新的。

Exactly, exactly.

沒錯，沒錯。

This is the first time martial law was declared since the democratization of 1987, since the military dictatorship was brought down.

這是自 1987 年民主化以來第一次宣佈戒嚴，也是自軍事獨裁政權被推翻以來第一次宣佈戒嚴。

And like I said, the last time, 1979, it only happened because the president, the dictator at the time, was assassinated.

就像我說的，上一次，也就是 1979 年，是因為當時的總統，也就是獨裁者被暗殺才發生的。

And then it allowed lasted for two years.

然後它允許持續兩年。

And then it was soon followed by a military coup.

隨後，很快就發生了軍事政變。

So this thing happening in a democracy, in one of the few full democracies in Asia, it's incredible.

是以，這件事發生在一個民主國家，發生在亞洲為數不多的完全民主國家之一，實在令人難以置信。

Jake, just in terms of those people shouting, what are they actually shouting?

傑克，就那些喊叫的人而言，他們究竟在喊什麼？

They're shouting, arrest President Yoo.

他們在喊，逮捕柳總統。

So you can see that a lot of these people are supporters of the main opposition party.

所以你可以看到，這些人中有很多是主要反對黨的支持者。