Name: 大幅提高對話品質背後的科學原理 | 查爾斯-杜希格 | TEDxManchester (The science behind dramatically better conversations | Charles Duhigg | TEDxManchester)
Uploaded: 2024-10-31T09:06:47.000Z
Duration: 12 min 58 s

未來簡單式

I'm going to ask you to participate in an experiment, which is that when you leave this room, when you go out into the world today, tomorrow, whenever you feel like it, I'd like you to ask and answer one question of someone who's a stranger.

我要請你們參加一個實驗，那就是當你們離開這個房間，今天、明天，無論什麼時候，當你們走到外面的世界時，我希望你們能問一個陌生人一個問題，並回答這個問題。

現在進行式

You might meet them on the bus, you might meet them walking down the street, and I'm going to show you the question that I'm going to ask you to ask and answer.

你可能會在公車上遇到他們，也可能會在街上遇到他們，我會給你看我要讓你問和回答的問題。

過去簡單式

The question is, when was the last time you cried in front of someone?

問題是，你上一次在別人面前哭是什麼時候？

Now, just out of curiosity, how many of you are really excited about this experiment?

現在，出於好奇，你們當中有多少人對這項實驗感到真正興奮？

Because there can be nothing that seems more intimidating or less fun than finding a stranger, asking them when they've cried in front of someone else, and then telling them about the time you cried in front of someone else.

因為沒有什麼比找到一個陌生人，問他們什麼時候在別人面前哭過，然後告訴他們你什麼時候在別人面前哭過更令人生畏或更無趣的了。

But I'm going to try and convince you over the next few minutes that this experiment is not only worth doing, it's worth doing whenever you can, because it will make your life better.

但接下來的幾分鐘裡，我會努力說服你，這個實驗不僅值得做，而且只要有機會就值得做，因為它會讓你的生活更美好。

And to explain how I got to this, I have to tell you a little bit of a story about me and my wife.

為了解釋我是如何走到這一步的，我得給你們講講我和我妻子的故事。

A few years ago, we got into this bad pattern.

幾年前，我們陷入了這種糟糕的模式。

We've been married for 20 years, but I would come home from a long day at the office, I was a reporter at the New York Times at that point, and I would start complaining about my day, about how I'm not appreciated enough, and my wife, very reasonably, would offer me some great advice.

我們已經結婚 20 年了，但我在辦公室工作了一天，回到家後，我就會開始抱怨我的一天，抱怨我沒有得到足夠的賞識，而我的妻子會非常理智地給我一些很好的建議。

She would say something like, why don't you take your boss out to lunch, and you guys can get to know each other a little bit better.

她會說，不如你請你的老闆吃午飯吧，這樣你們就能更好地瞭解對方了。

And instead of being able to hear her, I would get even more upset.

我不但聽不到她的聲音，反而會更加心煩意亂。

And I would say things like, why aren't you supporting me?

And she would get upset because I was attacking her for giving me good advice.

她會因為我攻擊她給我好的建議而生氣。

This was not, anyone ever have an experience like this?

And so I went and I started talking to researchers who were studying communication.

於是，我開始與研究傳播學的研究人員交談。

I asked them, why am I getting into this pattern?

我問他們，我為什麼會陷入這種模式？

And they said, well, you're making a mistake.

他們說，好吧，你犯了一個錯誤。

We're living through this golden age of understanding communication, really for the first time, because of advances in neural imaging and data collection.

由於神經成像和數據收集技術的進步，我們正經歷著瞭解交流的黃金時代，這確實是第一次。

And they said, one of the big things that we've learned is that we tend to think of a discussion as being just one conversation, right?

他們說，我們學到的一件大事是，我們往往認為討論只是一次對話，對嗎？

We're talking about one thing, my day, or the kids' grades, what to have for dinner.

我們在談論一件事，我的一天，或者孩子們的成績，晚餐吃什麼。

But what they said is that, actually, each discussion contains many different conversations.

但他們說，其實每次討論都包含許多不同的對話。

And in general, these conversations tend to fall into one of three buckets.

一般來說，這些對話往往分為三類。

There's these practical conversations, where we're talking about what's this all about?

在這些實際對話中，我們討論的是這一切到底是為了什麼？

But then there's emotional conversations, where we're talking about how do we feel?

但也有情感對話，我們會談論自己的感受？

And my goal is to share with you my feelings, and I don't want you to solve them.

我的目標是與你們分享我的感受，我不希望你們解決它們。

And then there's conversations that are social conversations, about who we are, the social identities that are important to us, how we relate to each other, and how we relate to society.

然後是社會對話，關於我們是誰，對我們很重要的社會身份，我們如何相互聯繫，以及我們如何與社會聯繫。

And what the researchers said is what we've learned is that if people are having different conversations at the same moment, they can't really hear each other.

研究人員說，我們已經瞭解到，如果人們在同一時刻進行不同的對話，他們就無法真正聽到對方的聲音。

And in fact, this is exactly what was happening with me and my wife, right?

事實上，這正是我和我妻子之間發生的事情，對嗎？

I was coming home and having an emotional conversation.

我回到家，進行了一次情緒化的談話。

My wife was responding with a practical conversation.

我的妻子以實際的對話作為迴應。

But because we weren't having the same conversation at the same moment, we weren't really communicating with each other.

但因為我們沒有在同一時刻進行相同的對話，所以我們之間並沒有真正的交流。

And within neurology and psychology, this insight has become so important that it's become known as the matching principle, which says that successful communication requires recognizing what kind of conversation is occurring and then matching each other.

在神經學和心理學中，這一觀點變得如此重要，以至於被稱為 "匹配原則"。"匹配原則 "認為，成功的溝通需要認識到對話的類型，然後相互匹配。

Well, in schools, they've actually taught teachers to do this.

在學校裡，老師們其實也是這麼教的。

If you are a schoolteacher, and you'll probably learn at some point that if a student comes up to you with a problem or something they want to talk about, you should ask them, do you want to be helped, which is a practical conversation, do you want to be hugged, which is an emotional conversation, or do you want to be heard, which is a social conversation?

如果你是一名教師，你可能會在某個時候瞭解到，如果學生向你提出問題或想傾訴什麼，你應該問他們：你想得到幫助嗎，這是一個實際的對話；你想得到擁抱嗎，這是一個情感的對話；還是你想被傾聽嗎，這是一個社交的對話？

It seems like if you ask students what they need, they'll tell you.

似乎只要你問學生需要什麼，他們就會告訴你。

But of course, that is hard to do in real life, right?

當然，這在現實生活中很難做到，不是嗎？

If you go up and you ask someone at work if they want a hug, the HR might get involved, so you might not want to do that.

如果你上去問同事是否想要一個擁抱，人力資源部門可能會介入，所以你可能不想這麼做。

But luckily, there is another way of doing this for all of us normal people, which is to ask questions, and in particular, to ask a certain type of question, a special question, what's known as a deep question.

但幸運的是，對於我們普通人來說，還有另一種方法，那就是提問，尤其是提出某種類型的問題，一種特殊的問題，也就是所謂的深度問題。

A deep question is something that invites us to talk about our values or our beliefs or our experiences, and that can sound a little intimidating, but it's actually much easier than it sounds.

一個有深度的問題會讓我們談論自己的價值觀、信仰或經歷，這聽起來有點嚇人，但實際上比聽起來容易得多。

For instance, instead of asking someone, where do you work?

例如，不要問別人 "你在哪裡工作？

You could ask them, what do you love about your job?

你可以問他們，你喜歡你的工作哪一點？

Instead of asking someone, where did you go to high school?

而不是問別人，你在哪裡上的高中？

You could say, what was high school like?

Put differently, instead of asking about the facts of someone's life, we should ask them how they feel about their life.

換句話說，與其詢問一個人生活中的事實，不如詢問他對自己生活的感受。

Because when we do, they tend to reveal to us who they really are.

因為當我們這樣做時，他們往往會向我們揭示他們的真實面目。

They tend to tell us what they want not only out of this conversation, but how they hope that we'll see them and how they want to see us, what matters to them most.

他們往往會告訴我們，他們不僅想從這次談話中得到什麼，而且希望我們如何看待他們，他們想如何看待我們，什麼對他們最重要。

In fact, what studies show us is that this is so powerful because these kinds of questions allow us to be vulnerable, and vulnerability and reciprocal vulnerability.

事實上，研究表明，這樣做非常有力量，因為這類問題讓我們變得脆弱，而脆弱又是相互的脆弱。

When we hear vulnerability and we become vulnerable in return is the key to allowing us to connect with other people.

當我們聽到脆弱時，我們也會變得脆弱，這是我們與他人建立聯繫的關鍵。

And to explain how this works, I want to tell you a story about this guy, Dr. Bafar Adai.

為了解釋這是如何做到的，我想給你們講一個關於巴法爾-阿戴博士的故事。

Dr. Adai is a cancer surgeon in New York City.

阿戴醫生是紐約市的一名癌症外科醫生。

He specializes in prostate cancer, removing prostate tumor, removing cancer tumors from prostates.

他擅長前列腺癌、前列腺腫瘤切除、前列腺癌腫瘤切除。

And he has this kind of interesting job because every single day a patient will come into his office asking, he thinks, for medical advice.

他的工作非常有趣，因為每天都會有病人來到他的辦公室，詢問他的醫療建議。

And what he will tell them is, you should not get surgery.

他會告訴他們，你不應該做手術。

The prostate is located so close to the nerves that control urination and sexual function that it's a relatively risky surgery.

前列腺距離控制排尿和性功能的神經非常近，是以手術風險相對較高。

And what's more, most prostate tumors, they grow very, very slowly.

更重要的是，大多數前列腺腫瘤生長非常非常緩慢。

It's actually one of the slowest growing forms of cancer in existence.

實際上，它是目前生長速度最慢的癌症之一。

There's a saying among doctors that if you have an old patient with prostate cancer, he's going to die of old age before the cancer kills him.

在醫生中流傳著這樣一句話：如果你有一個患有前列腺癌的老年患者，那麼在癌症殺死他之前，他就已經老死了。

And so Dr. Adai would have these patients come in and he would tell them, look, I don't think you should do anything.

是以，阿戴醫生會讓這些病人來就診，他會告訴他們，聽著，我覺得你什麼都不應該做。

In fact, I think you should do this thing called active surveillance.

事實上，我覺得你應該做一件事，叫做 "主動監視"。

What we're going to do is we're going to take a blood sample every six months, we're going to do a biopsy every two years, and if the tumor seems to change, we'll do an MRI.

我們要做的是，每六個月採集一次血樣，每兩年做一次活檢，如果腫瘤似乎有變化，我們會做核磁共振成像。

And if we have to, we can do the surgery.

如果有必要，我們可以做手術。

But otherwise, no radiation, no surgery, it's going to be okay.

但除此之外，沒有輻射，沒有手術，一切都會好起來的。

And these patients would listen to him, and then they would go home, and they would discuss it with their spouse, and then they would walk in the next day, and they would insist on having the surgery.

這些病人聽了他的話後，回家會和配偶商量，然後第二天走進醫院，堅持要做手術。

They would say, I absolutely want you to cut me open, take the tumor out as fast as possible.

他們會說，我絕對希望你把我切開，儘快取出腫瘤。

And for Dr. Adai, this was bewildering, right?

對阿代醫生來說，這很令人困惑，對嗎？

He thought these would be the easiest conversations of his life.

他認為這將是他一生中最輕鬆的對話。

He's telling people that they don't have to have surgery, and he's a surgeon.

他告訴人們不必動手術，而他是一名外科醫生。

He told me that when this happens again, and again, and again, you start to realize this isn't a problem with my patients, this is a problem with me.

他告訴我，當這種情況一而再、再而三地發生時，你就會開始意識到，這不是我的病人出了問題，而是我自己出了問題。

And so he goes to these folks, these professors at the Harvard Business School, and he asks them for advice on what to do differently.

於是，他找到這些人，哈佛商學院的教授們，向他們請教應該怎麼做才能與眾不同。

And they said, well, look, the biggest mistake that you're making is you are starting this conversation all wrong.

他們說，聽著，你犯的最大錯誤是，你開始這場對話的方式完全錯誤。

You are starting by assuming that the patient walks into your room, into your exam room, looking for advice and looking for medical solutions, but you don't know if that's true.

你一開始就假設病人走進你的房間，走進你的檢查室，尋求建議，尋求醫療解決方案，但你不知道這是否屬實。

What you need to do is you need to start asking deep questions.

你需要做的是，開始提出深刻的問題。

So two weeks later, after having this conversation, a 62-year-old man comes into Dr. Adai's office for the first time.

於是，兩週後，在這次談話之後，一位 62 歲的老人第一次來到阿戴醫生的辦公室。

He had just gotten his diagnosis of having prostate cancer.

他剛剛被診斷出患有前列腺癌。

And Dr. Adai, instead of giving him advice, instead of telling him what he ought to do, he asks the question.

阿代醫生沒有給他建議，沒有告訴他應該怎麼做，而是提出了一個問題。

He asks the question, what does this cancer diagnosis mean to you?

他問了一個問題：這次癌症診斷對你意味著什麼？

And he starts talking about how his father had died when he was 17 years old.

他開始講述自己的父親是如何在他 17 歲時去世的。

And this had just been so hard for him, and it had been so hard for his mom.

這對他來說太難了，對他媽媽來說也太難了。

And then he starts talking about how, at work, he's worried that the younger employees, if they find out that he has cancer, they're going to start looking at him differently.

然後他開始說起，在工作中，他擔心年輕的員工如果發現他得了癌症，會對他另眼相看。

They're going to be already writing him into the grave, even though he's got 20 or 30 years left on his career.

儘管他的職業生涯還有二三十年，但他們已經要把他寫進墳墓了。

And then he starts talking about his grandchildren and his fears for the world they're inheriting, with climate change and everything else that's going on.

然後，他開始談論他的孫子孫女，以及他對他們將要繼承的世界的擔憂，包括氣候變化和其他正在發生的一切。

Dr. Adai had expected this guy to at least bring up cancer, to at least mention mortality or pain, but it never came up.

阿代醫生本以為這傢伙至少會提起癌症，至少會提到死亡或痛苦，但他從來沒有提起過。

And at that moment, Dr. Adai realized, because he had asked this deep question, that this man wanted to have an emotional conversation.

那一刻，阿戴醫生意識到，因為他提出了這個深刻的問題，這個人想要進行一次情感對話。

字幕列表影片播放

大幅提高對話品質背後的科學原理 | 查爾斯-杜希格 | TEDxManchester (The science behind dramatically better conversations | Charles Duhigg | TEDxManchester)

vulnerable

vulnerability

profound

pattern