I think you must spend a lot of time reading or whatever, but you're always so incredibly thoughtful and well-read in every single detail of what's going on in the industry.

我想你一定花了很多時間閱讀或做其他事情，但你總是如此深思熟慮，對行業內發生的每一個細節都瞭如指掌。

How to stay so on top of things while running one of the world's largest companies.

如何在管理全球最大公司之一的同時，保持對事物的高度關注。

Wow.

哇

Let's see, what's the answer to that?

讓我想想，答案是什麼？

Well, first, I'm surrounded by amazing people.

首先，我身邊有很多了不起的人。

When I went to visit you, you were surrounded by amazing people.

我去看望你的時候，你身邊有很多了不起的人。

And they're generous to teach me.

他們慷慨地教我。

And so you have to make the effort to learn.

是以，你必須努力學習。

People love teaching people who are great students.

人們喜歡教那些優秀的學生。

And so I dedicate myself a lot to being a good student.

是以，我為成為一名好學生付出了很多。

And of course, we're in a whole lot of domains from self-driving cars to climate research to digital biology.

當然，從自動駕駛汽車到氣候研究，再到數字生物學，我們涉足的領域非常廣泛。

And so the vastness, the breadth of impact that we can have in the world is great.

是以，我們能夠對世界產生的影響是巨大的、廣泛的。

But we also have to learn.

但我們也必須學習。

And so you're in a very tech-driven industry, solving and creating solutions for companies.

是以，你從事的是一個非常以技術為導向的行業，為公司解決問題並創造解決方案。

I'm in a very tech-driven industry.

我從事的是一個技術驅動型行業。

And so for both of us, it's essential we understand the underpinnings of the technology.

是以，對我們來說，瞭解技術的基礎至關重要。

So you have an intuition for how the industry is going to change.

是以，你對行業的變化有一種直覺。

You have an intuition for which one of the technologies is a little bit of a left turn and which one is fundamental.

直覺告訴你，哪項技術有點左轉，哪項技術是基礎。

To realize that maybe the early works that we did with generative adversarial models to variational autoencoders to diffusion models, that they were somewhat cousins of each other.

我們意識到，從生成對抗模型到變異自動編碼器，再到擴散模型，我們早期所做的工作也許是互為表裡的。

And that realizing the impact of one could lead to a breakthrough in another which opens up the horizon for now diffusion models that are utterly incredible.

認識到一個領域的影響可能會帶來另一個領域的突破，從而開闢出令人難以置信的擴散模式。

And so I think having an intuition for technology allows you to better extrapolate.

是以，我認為對技術的直覺能讓你更好地進行推斷。

And our ability to extrapolate and see down the road is really vital because, gosh, technology is changing fast, but it still takes us several years to build a great solution.

我們的推斷能力和洞察力非常重要，因為，天哪，技術日新月異，但我們仍然需要幾年的時間才能建立一個偉大的解決方案。

And so how do you, on the one hand, dedicate yourself to build something that's going to take years to do, building it on top of technology that's utterly changing by a factor of a thousand every few years.

是以，一方面，你要花數年的時間，在每隔幾年就會以千倍速度變化的技術基礎上，潛心打造一個東西。

How do you do that unless you have an intuition for it?

如果沒有直覺，你怎麼能做到這一點？

And so I think that the fact that you're so deeply gifted in technology and so you understand it and you have great interest and curiosity in technology is essential to running a technology driven company.

是以，我認為，你在技術方面有如此深厚的天賦，你瞭解技術，對技術有極大的興趣和好奇心，這對經營一家技術驅動型公司至關重要。

So I think it's, I love that part of my job and I'm surrounded by people who are generous to teach me and I've got to just dedicate myself to be a good student.

所以我認為，我喜歡我工作的這一部分，我周圍的人都很慷慨地教我，我必須全心全意做一個好學生。

So one area I'm very intrigued by as well is how you run the company.

是以，我對你們如何經營公司也非常感興趣。

I've understood you don't have one-on-ones, you know, can you talk me through some of the sort of classic management playbook that you've challenged and evolved?

我知道你沒有一對一服務，你能跟我說說你挑戰和發展過的一些經典管理方法嗎？

Well, first, with respect to building a company, the first thing that you have to go, as with all problems, and Joe, you do this very naturally, you start from first principles.

首先，關於創建公司，你必須做的第一件事，就像處理所有問題一樣，喬，你做這件事非常自然，你從第一原則出發。

What is this machine that we're trying to create?

我們要創造的這臺機器是什麼？

And what is its output?

它的產出是什麼？

What is its input?

它的輸入是什麼？

What is its output?

它的產出是什麼？

What are the conditions that it's in?

它的狀況如何？

What is the industry like?

這個行業是什麼樣的？

Is it a fast-moving industry?

這是一個快速發展的行業嗎？

Is it a bureaucratic industry?

這是一個官僚行業嗎？

Is it a highly regulated industry?

這是一個高度管制的行業嗎？

You know, what kind of industry is it?

你知道，這是一個什麼樣的行業嗎？

And what are you trying to build?

你想建造什麼？

And so I think you think about it from that perspective.

是以，我認為你應該從這個角度來考慮問題。

There are several things that I wanted to do with the company.

我想在公司做幾件事。

I wanted to create something, a company that naturally attracts amazing people.

我想創建一家公司，一家能自然吸引優秀人才的公司。

And the reason for that is because we're solving problems.

之所以如此，是因為我們正在解決問題。

Our company's mission is to solve computing problems that are barely possible.

我們公司的使命是解決幾乎不可能解決的計算問題。

And if a problem could be solved by normal computers, we don't do it.

如果一個問題可以用普通計算機解決，我們就不會去做。

And so we have to go find problems that are impossible for normal computers to solve or barely possible.

是以，我們必須去尋找普通計算機不可能解決或幾乎不可能解決的問題。

And so you want to attract amazing people who want to invent this new form of computing and apply it to solving some really difficult problems.

是以，你想要吸引那些想要發明這種新計算形式並將其應用於解決一些真正棘手問題的傑出人才。

And so I wanted amazing people.

所以，我想要了不起的人。

Second, I wanted a company that was smaller, not larger.

其次，我想找一家規模較小而非較大的公司。

You want a company that's as small as possible, not as large as possible.

你希望公司越小越好，而不是越大越好。

You know, it needs to be as large as necessary to do the job well, but to be as small as possible.

要知道，為了做好這項工作，它需要儘可能大，但也需要儘可能小。

And so naturally, you want to empower people.

是以，你自然希望增強人們的能力。

Well, if you want an organization that obeys command and control, then you make it a pyramid, just like the old military, all the way back to the Roman Empire.

好吧，如果你想要一個服從命令和控制的組織，那你就把它變成一個金字塔，就像羅馬帝國的舊軍隊一樣。

But if you want to empower people, then you want to make it as flat as possible so that information travels quickly.

但是，如果你想增強人們的能力，那麼你就想讓它儘可能扁平化，以便資訊能夠快速傳播。

And so in order to make something as flat as possible, the first layer has to be well-considered.

是以，為了儘可能地平整，第一層必須經過深思熟慮。

Well, the first layer happens to be the most senior people, and you would think that they need the least amount of management.

那麼，第一層恰好是最資深的人，你會認為他們需要的管理最少。

Nobody's coming to me, none of my management team is coming to me for career advice.

沒有人來找我，我的管理團隊也沒有人來向我尋求職業建議。

They made it and they're doing great.

他們成功了，而且做得很好。

And so I have a whole lot of people reporting to me because I don't need to do one-on-ones.

是以，我有很多人向我彙報工作，因為我不需要做一對一的工作。

I don't have to do career coaching.

我不需要做職業指導。

They're all fabulously happy and they know what they're doing.

他們都非常快樂，知道自己在做什麼。

They're experts in their field.

他們是各自領域的專家。

And so those one-on-ones are really not necessary.

是以，那些一對一的活動真的沒有必要。

And if there's a strategic direction, why do you tell one person?

如果有戰略方向，為什麼要告訴一個人？

You tell everybody.

你告訴大家

And so after we're swimming in the soup of strategizing and how to formulate the path to the future, when the time comes, I just send it out to everybody at the same time or I'll tell everybody at the same time.

是以，當我們在制定戰略和如何制定通往未來之路的湯中暢遊之後，時機一到，我就會同時把它發給大家，或者我會同時告訴大家。

And people will give me feedback and we'll refine it.

人們會給我反饋意見，我們會加以改進。

And because the company is so flat and you've empowered the organization so much with knowledge of the company and their access to information, the company is also agile.

而且，由於公司非常扁平化，你又賦予了組織如此多的權力，讓他們瞭解公司，獲取信息，是以公司也非常靈活。

And so it turns out that by having a lot of direct reports, not having one-on-ones made the company flat, information travels quickly, employees empowered, which made it possible for me not to do one-on-ones.

事實證明，由於有很多直接下屬，沒有一對一，公司變得扁平化，資訊傳播迅速，員工的權力得到了增強，這讓我有可能不做一對一的工作。

That algorithm was well-conceived and the architecture is well-implemented.

該算法構思精巧，結構合理。

We also don't have business units.

我們也沒有業務部門。

We don't have divisions.

我們沒有分裂。

Everybody works as one and the company is shaped in a way that allows us to build accelerated computing best.

每個人都團結一致，公司的發展方式使我們能夠以最佳方式加速計算。

If you asked me to go do fried chicken, we'd have a hard time doing fried chicken.

如果你讓我去做炸雞，我們就很難做炸雞了。

Swedish meatballs, no chance.

瑞典肉丸，沒戲。

But accelerated computing, very well.

但加速計算，非常好。

I think you have 40 direct reports, right?

我想你有 40 個直接下屬吧？

Something like that.

差不多就是這樣。

The challenge is getting everybody together.

我們面臨的挑戰是如何把大家聚在一起。

When I want to get everybody together, but either somebody's out or somebody's on vacation or somebody's doing something.

當我想把大家聚在一起時，要麼有人出去了，要麼有人在度假，要麼有人在做什麼。

The odds of everybody sitting at the office is approximately 0%.

每個人都坐在辦公室的機率約為 0%。

How did your leadership style change over time?

隨著時間的推移，您的上司風格有何變化？

You've been going on for decades now.

你已經持續了幾十年了。

How did that evolve as you learned?

在你學習的過程中，它是如何演變的？

Well, I don't really have a style.

其實，我沒有什麼風格。

It's just me.

只有我。

There are a lot of things that I want to do better.

有很多事情我都想做得更好。

If something's happening at work and I don't like its direction, I'll just say it.

如果工作中發生了什麼事，我不喜歡它的發展方向，我會直接說出來。

I don't take anybody aside, do one-on-one coaching.

我不會把任何人帶到一邊，進行一對一的指導。

If something's not right, I'll just say it.

如果有什麼不對，我會直說。

If I have a different opinion, I'll just say it.

如果我有不同意見，我會直接說出來。

It could be a little too direct, but if people just realize that I'm not trying to do anything except be direct, then I spend a lot of time reasoning through my decisions, which empowers employees because they learn how leaders think through problems.

這可能有點太直接了，但如果人們意識到我除了直接之外什麼都不想做，那麼我就會花很多時間對我的決定進行推理，這也會增強員工的能力，因為他們會學到領導者是如何思考問題的。

Just by every meeting I'm in, I'm explaining how do I think through this?

每次開會，我都要解釋一下，我該如何思考這個問題？

Let me reason through this.

讓我來解釋一下。

Let me explain why I did that.

讓我解釋一下我為什麼這麼做。

How do we compare and contrast these ideas?

我們如何比較和對比這些觀點？

That process of management, I think, is really empowering.

我認為，這種管理過程真的很有力量。

We also don't do just vice president meetings or just director and board meetings.

我們也不會只召開副主席會議或董事和董事會會議。

The meetings I have, there's new college grads in there.

我參加的會議都是剛畢業的大學生。

There are people from every different organization, and we're just all sitting in there.

有來自各個不同組織的人，我們就坐在那裡。

They're kind of like your office.

它們有點像你的辦公室。

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

是啊，是啊，是啊。

Yeah, everybody's just kind of sitting in there.

是啊，每個人都坐在那裡。

Exactly.

沒錯。

That's actually one thing that I found very intriguing because that's one of the playbooks.

事實上，我覺得這一點非常有趣，因為這是其中的一個玩法。

You have a very clear leadership team, and you have leadership team in meetings and so on.

你有一個非常明確的上司團隊，你有上司團隊參加會議等等。

That's something I've always struggled with because you'll have a lot of the best individual contributors, and of course, they should be in that meeting.

這是我一直很糾結的問題，因為你會有很多最優秀的個人貢獻者，當然，他們也應該參加會議。

It shouldn't be just like vice presidents not knowing the craft, so it's fascinating that you can- That's exactly it.

這不應該像副總統一樣不懂這門手藝，所以你能--就是這樣--真讓人著迷。

You got it.

你說對了。

You want the person who is most informed or best skilled or just had the most experience.

你需要的是消息最靈通、技術最嫻熟或經驗最豐富的人。

They actually made the mess, or they actually confronted the situation.

他們實際上製造了混亂，或者說他們實際上面對了局面。

You want ground truth.

你要的是事實真相。

You want ground truth and experts the best you can.

您需要的是最真實的資訊和最優秀的專家。

You have some model for folks to communicate their top priorities.

你們有一些模式，可以讓人們交流他們的首要任務。

I've heard something about sending an email.

我聽說過發送電子郵件的事。

What's that all about?

這是怎麼回事？

We don't do status reports, and so I don't read any status reports.

我們不做情況報告，所以我也不看任何情況報告。

The reason why I don't is because status reports are meta information by the time you get it, and so they're barely informative, and so I'm distilled and refined, and bias has been inserted, and perspective has already been added.

我不這樣做的原因是，當你拿到狀態報告時，它已經是元資訊了，所以幾乎沒有信息量，所以我對它進行了提煉和精煉，加入了偏見，已經添加了觀點。

You're not looking at ground truth anymore, and so I tend to appreciate information that anybody presents, and so you're allowed it.

你看到的不再是事實真相，是以我傾向於欣賞任何人提供的資訊，所以你可以這樣做。

If you send out email, and it's called Top Five Things, and just whatever happens to be your top five things, whatever you observed or whatever you did or whatever you learned or things, they're just things.

如果你發送電子郵件，把它命名為 "五大事件"，只要是你的五大事件，不管是你觀察到的，還是你做過的，還是你學到的，都只是事件而已。

Oh, really?

哦，真的嗎？

Yeah, top five things, whatever it is.

是啊，前五件事，不管是什麼。

You just went to a great restaurant.

你剛去了一家很棒的餐廳。

Who doesn't want to hear that?

誰不想聽呢？

That's important information.

這是很重要的資訊。

Just had a baby.

剛生完孩子

That's important information.

這是很重要的資訊。

So whatever these things are, top five things, if you send it out, I'll read it.

所以，不管這些事情是什麼，前五件事，只要你發出來，我就會讀。

And so I read every single morning, probably a hundred or so, and I do it every day.

是以，我每天早上都會讀書，大概有一百來本，而且每天都讀。

And it's one giant thread that everyone in the company sends to you, right?

公司裡的每個人都會給你發一條巨大的資訊，對嗎？

No, just everybody has their own version of top five things, and they just send it out.

不，只是每個人都有自己版本的前五件事，然後就把它發出去了。

If you send it, I'll read it.

如果你寄過來，我會看的。

What's your top five things?

你最關心的五件事是什麼？

Top five things are not meant to be from the center out.

前五件事並不是要從中間往外做。

They're meant to be from the outside.

它們應該從外面看。

That's right.

這就對了。

Yeah.

是啊

Think of it as IoT.

將其視為物聯網。

Yeah.

是啊

If I take my top five things and I sent it out, then I contaminated the system, in fact.

如果我把我的前五件事拿出來，然後把它發出去，那麼事實上，我就汙染了這個系統。

That's the reason why I don't do it.

這就是我不這麼做的原因。

But I have my own top five things that I keep to myself.

但我也有自己的五大祕訣。

And how do you balance that with planning?

如何在計劃與規劃之間取得平衡？

So sort of bottoms up ideas, having the best engineers on your team decide what to work on combined with, you know, sometimes you also have to execute on a plan.

是以，我們的想法是，讓團隊中最優秀的工程師來決定要做什麼，再加上，你知道，有時你還必須執行計劃。

How do you balance those two things?

如何平衡這兩件事？

First of all, strategy is not words.

首先，戰略不是文字。

Strategy is action.

戰略就是行動。

And so if the company has a set of strategies, but the people's actions, their top five things are not that, then they're obviously not executing the strategy.

是以，如果公司有一套戰略，但員工的行動、他們的五件大事卻不是這樣，那麼他們顯然沒有執行戰略。

And so the strategy turns out isn't what I say, it's what they do.

是以，戰略不是我說什麼，而是他們做什麼。

And so it's really important that I understand what everybody's doing.

是以，我必須瞭解大家都在做什麼。

And you do that by just getting a feel for everybody's top five things.

要做到這一點，就必須瞭解每個人最關心的五件事。

And you don't have to read all of them.

你也不必全部閱讀。

You don't have to read them all every week.

您不必每週都閱讀它們。

You don't, you just kind of, you know, it's sporadic and, you know, stochastically sampling the system.

你不知道，你只是一種，你知道，它是零星的，你知道，隨機取樣的系統。

And you have a feeling for whether the company is going in the direction that you want it to go.

你也能感覺到公司是否在朝著你希望的方向發展。

Yeah.

是啊

That we all agree we go.

我們都同意我們去。

And so that's one.

這就是其中之一。

Second, planning, we don't do a periodic planning system.

其次是規劃，我們沒有定期規劃系統。

And the reason for that is because the world is a living, breathing thing.

之所以如此，是因為世界是一個活生生的東西。

And so we just plan continuously.

是以，我們只是不斷地計劃。

There's no five year plan.

沒有五年計劃。

There's no one year plan.

沒有一年的計劃。

There's no plan.

沒有計劃

There's just what we're doing.

這就是我們正在做的。

That's really exciting to hear.

聽到這個消息，我真的很激動。

I think one thing as you're executing on first principles and you come to some ideas, it can also be hard to trust your intuition if you're doing something that's, you know, contrarian to what the playbook is.

我認為，當你按照第一原則執行時，你會產生一些想法，如果你做的事情，你知道，與遊戲規則背道而馳，那麼也很難相信你的直覺。

What do you think made you trust your intuition on some of these things?

你認為是什麼讓你在這些事情上相信自己的直覺？

Well, you know, most everything that you dedicate the company to go after should be reasoned through first principles.

嗯，你知道的，公司要做的大多數事情都應該遵循第一原則。

Yeah.

是啊

You know, there's a foundation of what are the assumptions, the important assumptions that led to you believing that the computer has to change or the chip architecture has to change or the way that software is developed or how a data center has transformed.

要知道，導致你認為計算機必須改變、芯片架構必須改變、軟件開發方式必須改變或數據中心已發生轉變的假設、重要假設都有一個基礎。

You know, a data center used to be a place where we store all of our files and we would go retrieve it.

要知道，數據中心曾經是我們存放所有文件的地方，然後我們再去取文件。

But every company in the future will have two more data centers.

但未來每家公司都將擁有兩個以上的數據中心。

But one of the data centers will not be a center for data.

但其中一個數據中心將不是數據中心。

But it's a factory.

但這是一家工廠。

Exactly.

沒錯。

It's a factory for producing intelligence.

這是一個生產情報的工廠。

And data comes in.

數據來了

It's refined through the computer.

它是通過電腦提煉出來的。

And what comes out is this invisible thing, which is the most valuable thing in the world called intelligence.

最後產生的就是這種無形的東西，也就是世界上最寶貴的東西--智慧。