I went, oh, an elf in New Zealand?

我一聽，哦，紐西蘭有精靈？

And I said, what's the story?

我說，這是怎麼回事？

And they said, oh, it's from the Lord of the Rings.

他們說，哦，這是《指環王》裡的。

I went, oh, someone's making the Lord of the Rings.

我就想，哦，有人要拍《指環王》了。

And I said, who's directing it?

我說，誰來導演？

Peter Jackson.

彼得-傑克遜

I stopped speaking and they said, yeah, you don't want to do that, do you?

我不再說話了，他們說，是的，你不想這樣做，是嗎？

They didn't realize why I wasn't speaking.

他們不知道我為什麼不說話。

It was like the perfect job.

這就像是一份完美的工作。

The aviator.

飛行員

I, uh, read in the magazines that you play golf.

我在雜誌上看到你打高爾夫球。

On occasion.

偶爾

Well, how about nine holes?

那麼，九個洞怎麼樣？

Now, Mr. Humes?

現在，休姆斯先生？

If it would be convenient, Miss Hepburn.

如果方便的話 赫本小姐

I played Katharine Hepburn in The Aviator.

我在《飛行家》中扮演凱瑟琳-赫本。

It was about Howard Hughes, and they obviously had a very public, although they tried to keep it clandestine, love affair.

這部電影講述的是霍華德-休斯的故事 他們顯然有一段非常公開的戀情 儘管他們試圖保持這段戀情的隱祕性

His love of cinema, her love of daring.

他熱愛電影，她熱愛冒險。

I remember I was working on a Western with Ron Howard.

我記得當時我正在和朗-霍華德合作一部西部片。

I had just had a baby and my eldest was learning to walk in the snow and it was kind of idyllic and I was riding out with Marlborough men every day and it doesn't get much better than this.

那時我剛生完孩子，我的大兒子正在雪地裡學走路，一切都充滿田園風光，我每天都和馬爾伯勒人一起騎馬外出，沒有比這更好的事情了。

And then I got a call saying that Martin Scorsese was trying to get hold of me.

然後我接到一個電話，說馬丁-斯科塞斯正在找我。

He had a script he wanted to send me and I nearly buckled at the knees.

他有一個劇本想寄給我，我差點跪下來。

I think I was so nervous talking to him because I knew whatever it was he was asking me to do,

我想我和他說話時很緊張，因為我知道他要我做什麼、

I was going to say yes.

我本來想說是的。

And then it was to play Katharine Hepburn.

然後是扮演凱瑟琳-赫本。

I went, OK, this is the end of my career.

我想，好吧，這就是我職業生涯的終點了。

The film will be amazing because he's, you know, he's the maestro.

這部電影將會非常精彩，因為他是，你知道，他是大師。

But yeah, I was terrified.

但是，是的，我被嚇壞了。

I remember the first time I saw Sylvia Scarlet and I was just blown away and then seeing Philadelphia's story and all of those fantastic screwball comedies.

我記得第一次看《西爾維亞-斯嘉麗》時，我被深深地震撼了，後來又看到了《費城故事》和所有那些精彩的搞笑喜劇片。

How are you, dear?

你好嗎，親愛的？

Much better now that you're here.

有你在就好多了。

Oh, I guess this must be love.

哦，我猜這一定是愛。

Your guess is correct, Mr.

你的猜測是正確的，先生。

Conner. I'm just his faithful old dog, Trey.

康納我只是他忠實的老狗 特雷

She's so extraordinary.

她是如此非凡。

There was no one like her.

沒有人像她一樣。

What's that on the steering wheel?

方向盤上是什麼？

Cellophane.

玻璃紙

If you had any idea the crap that people carry around on their hands.

如果你知道人們手上有多少垃圾的話。

What kind of crap?

什麼垃圾？

You don't want to know.

你不會想知道的

Well, the first thing is you have to attack the most obvious parts of the character, like the way they move, the way they speak, which was so distinctive with Hepburn.

首先，你必須抓住角色最明顯的部分，比如他們的動作和說話方式，這在赫本身上體現得淋漓盡致。

But then the most important thing is you've got to say to the director, what's the world that I'm entering?

但最重要的是，你要對導演說，我要進入的是一個怎樣的世界？

Because this is not a film about Katharine Hepburn.

因為這不是一部關於凱瑟琳-赫本的電影。

I had to fit into that the story that he was telling.

我必須融入他所講述的故事。

And he was so fantastic.

他真是太棒了。

The way he said to me, you look great, blonde.

他對我說，你看起來很棒，金髮女郎。

You can just be blonde and you don't have to sound like her.

你可以只做金髮女郎，不一定要聽起來像她。

I mean, gosh, your voice was so annoying, you know, or, you know, he was just trying to make me feel better.

我的意思是，天哪，你的聲音太煩人了，你知道，或者，你知道，他只是想讓我感覺好一點。

And it was so liberating that he said that to me because it just removed any residual feeling that I would have to get it right.

他對我說的這句話讓我感到很輕鬆，因為這消除了我必須把事情做好的餘悸。

I then just said to myself,

然後我就對自己說

I'm playing a character in a Martin Scorsese film.

我在馬丁-斯科塞斯的電影中扮演一個角色。

But the wonderful thing that Scorsese does, and I'm sure he does it with all of his films, is that he screened a set of films that had an energy to how he wanted me to play the character.

但是，斯科塞斯所做的最棒的事情（我相信他對他所有的電影都是這樣做的）就是，他篩選了一組電影，這些電影的能量與他希望我扮演的角色相吻合。

So he screened about four or five different films that gave us a tone and a texture and a world in which to play.

是以，他放映了大約四五部不同的電影，這些電影給了我們一種基調、一種質感和一個可以發揮的世界。

He wanted the first entry of Hepburn into the story to sort of knock your head back.

他希望赫本一出場就能讓人眼前一亮。

Follow through is everything in golf, just like life.

在高爾夫運動中，堅持到底就是一切，就像人生一樣。

Don't you mind?

你不介意嗎？

In the same way that she must have done that with audiences the first time they'd seen her, the energy that she brought on to screen.

同樣，觀眾第一次看到她時，也一定會感受到她在銀幕上展現出的活力。

I adore the theater, only alive on stage.

我喜歡戲劇，只有在舞臺上我才有活力。

I'll teach you.

我來教你

We'll see some Ibsen, if the Republicans haven't outlawed him by now.

如果共和黨現在還沒有取締易卜生的話，我們就能看到他的作品了。

You're not a Republican, are you?

你不是共和黨人吧？

Couldn't abide that.

無法忍受

How'd you vote in 32?

你在 32 日的投票情況如何？

Well, I didn't.

我沒有

You must, it's your secret franchise.

你必須這樣做，這是你的祕密特許經營權。

But what was, when I saw the film, what I love seeing was obviously when Hepburn and Howard Hughes are broken up and he's locked himself in his screening room.

但是，當我看這部電影時，我最喜歡看的顯然是赫本和霍華德-休斯分手時，他把自己鎖在放映室裡。

And obviously when I played that scene with Leo, he was on the other side of the door.

很明顯，當我和里奧演那場戲時，他在門的另一邊。

So I never saw his side of it, just what I imagined, because even his voice was so painful to listen to.

所以我從來沒有看到過他的一面，只是看到了我的想象，因為連他的聲音聽起來都是那麼痛苦。

I can't, sweetie.

不行 親愛的

You mean you won't?

你是說你不會？

And then to see the visual on the other side was really heartbreaking.

然後看到另一邊的景象，真的令人心碎。

["Lord of the Rings"]

["魔戒"]

Lord of the Rings.

指環王

["Lord of the Rings"]

["魔戒"]

Who could have known?

誰能想到呢？

Except all of us fanboys and gals.

除了我們這些粉絲。

I mean, I was there to work with Peter Jackson.

我是說，我是去和彼得-傑克遜一起工作的。

I was such a huge fan of his work and his reverence and his, you know, his love of kind of the ugly side of things.

我非常喜歡他的作品，喜歡他的敬畏之心，喜歡他對醜陋事物的熱愛。

You were a fan of his horror works.

你是他恐怖作品的粉絲。

I love, I grew up on horror.

我喜歡，我是在恐怖片中長大的。

And so all of that braindead stuff,

所有這些腦殘的東西、

I mean, I just absolutely loved it.

我的意思是，我絕對喜歡它。

I loved it.

我很喜歡。

And it was so funny, you know, as well as being so revolting and creepy.

它是如此有趣，你知道，也是如此令人厭惡和毛骨悚然。

Party's over.

派對結束了

["Lord of the Rings"]

["魔戒"]

And so imagining his sensibility on those stories, which were sort of like a holy grail of a certain aspect of the, you know, the literary canon.

所以想象一下他對這些故事的感受力，這些故事就像是文學典籍中某方面的聖盃。

I thought, this is going to be really, because you have to ask yourself when you're adapting something so beloved and that has such a particular and special place for people, why, what are you going to do with it?

我想，這一定會很有意思，因為當你改編一件如此受人喜愛、對人們來說具有特殊意義的作品時，你必須問問自己，為什麼，你打算用它來做什麼？

But who could have known that it would have taken off in the way that it did?

但誰又能預料到它會以這樣的方式起飛呢？

First voice, the very first thing we hear.

第一個聲音，我們聽到的第一件事。

Yes.

是的。

It began with the forging of the great rings.

它始於大環的鍛造。

Three were given to the elves, immortal, wisest, and fairest of all beings.

精靈是所有生物中不朽、最智慧、最美麗的。

I think it was in the original scripts, but I don't think I fully computed that it would be the first thing.

我想這在最初的劇本中就有，但我不認為我完全計算過這將是第一件事。

Because when you first pick up a script to read it, you're reading the story.

因為當你第一次拿起劇本閱讀時，你就是在讀故事。

They were all very interested in, which I found really exciting, the fact that in order to become a force for good or positive strength, you have to have confronted the darkness within.

他們都對一個事實非常感興趣，那就是，要想成為一股善的力量或積極的力量，你必須直面內心的黑暗，這一點讓我感到非常興奮。

And so they were very interested, even though I don't think the book necessarily leans into that heavily, although they found their Tolkien justifications for it.

是以，他們非常感興趣，儘管我不認為這本書一定會在這方面做得很好，儘管他們找到了托爾金的理由。

They were interested in the small way, you know, the bit that I'm in, teasing apart the idea of the darkness that could have been unleashed in her, that she too has been tempted by the ring.

他們對我演的小角色很感興趣，你知道，我演的那段戲，是在調侃她內心的黑暗，她也受到了戒指的誘惑。

I remember filming that, not knowing, you know, because Pete was kind of a six-pack, he was kind of just experimenting with it and not knowing that necessarily it was going to be in the final film.

我記得在拍攝的時候，我並不知道，你知道，因為皮特是那種六塊腹肌的人，他只是在嘗試，並不知道這一定會出現在最終的影片中。

You give so much depth to the character.

你賦予了這個角色如此多的深度。

Yeah, I think so, yeah.

我想是的

How's your experience with the Hobbit coming back to the character?

你在霍比特人中重拾角色的經歷如何？

Oh, well, I mean,

我是說

I knew there wasn't a snowflake's chance in hell of me reprising my role in that, but I sent kind of a jokey email to Pete saying, you know, if you want to put Galadriel in,

我知道我根本不可能再次出演這個角色，但我還是給皮特發了一封開玩笑的郵件，說如果你想讓蓋拉德莉爾出演的話、

I'm free, I'll come over.

我有空，我就過來。

You know, I'll sail my canoe.

你知道，我會駕駛我的獨木舟。

But I loved it. I loved it.

但我愛它。我愛它

It was really special.

這真的很特別。

I mean, I was there for three weeks on The Lord of the Rings, and I think I might have been, you know, on The Hobbit, might have been there three days.

我的意思是，我在《指環王》裡待了三個星期，我想我可能在《霍比特人》裡待了三天。

But it was really special nonetheless, yeah.

不過，這真的很特別，是的。

Did you sign on when Guillermo del Toro was still attached?

你是在吉爾莫-德爾-託羅（Guillermo del Toro）還在的時候簽約的嗎？

Yeah, yeah.

是啊，是啊。

I think he was originally, yeah.

我覺得他本來就是

Yeah.

是啊

Still out there in my mind, this alternate universe where he, you know, his version of it.

在我的腦海中仍然存在著這個另一個世界 在那裡，你知道，他的版本。

Yeah, they're both such special directors and really particular, and you can totally see the crossover.

是的，他們都是非常特別的導演，而且都很特別，你完全可以看到他們的交叉點。

But yet they, you know, they make things and they create worlds in their own unique ways.

但是，他們，你知道，他們用自己獨特的方式創造事物，創造世界。

I mean, you know, it would have been equally as special, but just different.

我的意思是，你知道，這也同樣特別，只是不同而已。

Thor Ragnarok.

雷神之錘

I don't play Thor.

我不玩雷神之錘

I wasn't asked to play Thor.

我不是被邀請來扮演雷神的。

Well, you know, Natalie Portman played Thor.

娜塔莉-波特曼演過雷神。

Well, yes.

嗯，是的。

They were big muscles.

他們都是大塊頭肌肉。

That's a lot of work.

這可是個大工程。

A lot of work.

工作量很大

That wasn't CGI.

那不是 CGI。

You must be Hela.

你一定是海拉

I'm Thor, son of Odin.

我是托爾，奧丁之子。

Really?

真的嗎？

You don't look like him.

你看起來不像他

Perhaps we can come to an arrangement.

也許我們可以達成一項安排。

You sound like him.

你聽起來像他。

Kneel.

跪下

Beg your pardon?

你說什麼？

Well, I'd seen Taika's films and loved them.

我看過塔卡的電影，非常喜歡。

I'd heard that it was happening, but I didn't think anything of it.

我聽說過這種情況，但我什麼也沒想。

And then I just got a call saying that Taika wanted to meet.

然後我就接到電話，說泰卡想見我。

And what I, I was like, yeah, of course.

我想，是的，當然。

And I didn't know what he,

我不知道他

I just really wanted to say hello.

我真的很想跟你打個招呼。

And then he asked would I be in it?

然後他問我是否會參演？

You know, Marvel aren't necessarily used to having a whole script, so there wasn't anything.

你知道，漫威不一定習慣於有一個完整的劇本，所以什麼都沒有。

You know, often they'll, they will board the essential battles and they'll start working backwards, like they make their stories, construct their stories.

你知道，通常他們會，他們會登上基本的戰鬥，然後他們會開始向後工作，就像他們製作他們的故事，構建他們的故事。

You know, it's a whole big, massive jigsaw puzzle that I don't know.

你知道，這是一個我不知道的巨大拼圖。

What I didn't realize then was the first time a female villain had been realized on screen, so that was really exciting.

我當時沒有意識到這是第一次在銀幕上出現女性反派，所以這真的很令人興奮。

Who are you?

你是誰？

What have you done?

你做了什麼？

What have you done?

你做了什麼？

I'm Hela.

我是海拉

But I knew Taika was going to put his own particular spin on it and that Chris was so up for anything, incredibly generous and funny and ready to kind of move this in another direction.

但我知道塔卡會用他自己的方式來詮釋它，而克里斯對任何事情都充滿熱情，非常慷慨、風趣，隨時準備把它推向另一個方向。

So it felt like there was a really playful, exciting energy.

是以，我們感覺到一種非常有趣、令人興奮的能量。

Fresh winds were moving through.

新風拂過。

It was great.

太棒了。

It was really great.

這真的很棒。

I mean, I learned so much.

我的意思是，我學到了很多東西。

I mean, literally, Juster, which I was still doing on Borderlands, not to go pew, pew when you shoot the guns.

我是說，從字面上看，賈斯特，我當時還在《邊境地帶》裡做這個工作，而不是在你開槍的時候 "砰、砰 "地響。

Because you have to throw a lot of stuff out of your whatever bits are going to be

因為你必須把很多東西從你的任何位子上扔掉。

CGI'd onto your hand.

CGI到你的手上

You know, hammer throwing lessons from Chris about how it could actually make it like it's a mime.

你知道，克里斯教過我如何把錘子扔得像啞劇一樣。

You had to have energy through your arm.

你的手臂必須有能量。

I mean, I did.

我的意思是，我做到了。

I learned a lot of soft skills.

我學到了很多軟技能。

You want us, God?

你想要我們嗎，上帝？

It's yours.

是你的了

Whatever game you're playing, it won't work.

不管你在玩什麼遊戲，這都是行不通的。

You can't defeat me.

你打不過我的

No, I know.

不，我知道。

But he can.

但他可以。

It's a really huge action scene that was all shot outdoors.

這是一個非常龐大的動作場面，全部在室外拍攝。

And Zoe Bell had come out of retirement to be Hela's stunt double.

而佐伊-貝爾（Zoe Bell）則從退休狀態中走了出來，成為了海拉的替身。

Oh my God, I learned so much from Zoe.

天哪，我從佐伊身上學到了很多。

She's so deeply cool.

她太酷了

So to work with Zoe and to do my bits and to watch her do this incredible stuff was just like, oh!

所以能和佐伊一起工作，做我該做的事，看著她做這些不可思議的事，我就覺得，哦！

My jaw hit the floor.

我的下巴掉到了地上。

She's amazing.

她太棒了

Tar?

柏油？

I'm probably the wrong person to ask since I don't read reviews.

我可能問錯人了，因為我不看評論。

Never, really.

從來沒有，真的。

No, but it is odd.

沒有，但很奇怪。

I think that anyone ever felt compelled to substitute maestro with maestra.

我認為，沒有人不得不用 maestra 代替 maestro。

I mean, we don't call women astronauts, it's definitely a tragedy.

我的意思是，我們不稱女性為太空人，這絕對是個悲劇。

Oftentimes in tragedy, we forget, you know, that we think about the forces that cause the downfall or the tragic unfolding of events as being external to the central characters who we're asked to invest in.

在悲劇中，我們常常會忘記，你知道的，我們認為導致垮臺或悲劇性事件發生的力量是外在的，而這些力量是中心人物所要求我們投入的。

But to watch something where the tragedy occurs from an implosion as much as an explosion was a really interesting thing to play, which is hard.

但是，觀看內爆和爆炸所造成的悲劇是一件非常有趣的事情，這是很難做到的。

I found it a very hard film to talk about.

我覺得這是一部很難談論的電影。

It connected with me so deeply that I didn't want to become too conscious of it.

它與我的聯繫如此之深，以至於我不想太在意它。

I didn't want to tell an audience what to make of it because I felt there were so many things brought to bear that we didn't really get a space to talk about.

我不想告訴觀眾該怎麼看，因為我覺得有很多東西我們都沒有機會討論。

So for me, the film existed on a metaphorical layer as much as it existed literally.

是以，對我來說，這部電影既有文字上的意義，也有隱喻上的意義。

I think people got really obsessed with the literal kind of circumstances which are quite, not quite, elusive and mysterious.

我認為，人們真的迷戀上了字面意義上的環境，這種環境相當、不相當、難以捉摸、神祕莫測。

So it became a little bit of a Rorschach test for how people read the film or read the situation and what they thought was said or what they just interpreted.

是以，這就有點像羅夏克測試，測試人們是如何解讀這部電影或解讀當時的情況，以及他們認為電影裡說了什麼，或者他們只是做了什麼解釋。

Based on their experiences with so many other stories that are like happening.

根據他們的經驗，還有很多類似的故事正在發生。

Yeah, it's interesting.

是的，這很有趣。

If we get one or two whiffs of a certain story, we often lean into that side of the narrative rather than allowing the story to unfold.

如果我們對某個故事有一兩點了解，我們往往就會傾向於那一面的敘述，而不是讓故事發展下去。

And I think that happens a lot with all of us conversationally is that we think we understand what someone's saying and we start to formulate judgments and perceptions of what is going to be said rather than allowing that person's narrative to genuinely unfold unfettered by our own sense of judgment.

我認為，我們在交談中經常會遇到這種情況，即我們認為自己理解了別人在說什麼，然後開始對將要說的話進行判斷和感知，而不是讓別人的敘述真正不受我們自己判斷力的束縛。

Great physical performance from you as the conductor, yes.

是的，你作為指揮的肢體表演很棒。