No time in the past, no time in the past.

過去沒有時間，過去沒有時間。

We're the gunfighters, we're the champions, we're the number fours, our name is New York.

我們是槍手，我們是冠軍，我們是四號，我們的名字叫紐約。

We're the future, we're the dawn of a brand new era.

我們是未來，我們是嶄新時代的曙光。

That was different. You make a living doing this?

這是不同的。你靠這個謀生？

We're a bit rusty, and it's been a long day.

我們有點生疏，而且今天已經很漫長了。

Yeah, sure thing. By the way, that song could be considered offensive in the Republic.

好的，沒問題順便說一句，這首歌在共和國可能會被認為是冒犯性的。

This isn't Pacifica. People here don't like politics with their entertainment.

這裡不是太平洋電臺。這裡的人不喜歡在娛樂中夾雜政治。

Everyone's been talking about the game Dustborn, but not for a good reason.

每個人都在談論《塵埃降生》這款遊戲，但原因並不充分。

Now, when I first saw this game, I wasn't particularly interested aside from the cutesy graphics, which ever since Breath of the Wild, everybody's been copying for some reason, and the ability to make choices, which I absolutely like.

現在，當我第一次看到這款遊戲時，除了可愛的畫面（自從《荒野之息》之後，出於某種原因，每個人都在模仿它）和做出選擇的能力（我絕對喜歡）之外，我對它並不特別感興趣。

There's nothing particularly about this game that grabs me. I don't like the characters, and it just feels like it has no soul, like it was just churned out by some kind of manufacturing company.

這款遊戲沒有什麼特別吸引我的地方。我不喜歡遊戲中的人物，感覺它沒有靈魂，就像是由某個製造公司生產出來的。

I have this picture of liberty in my head, unchanged for 15 years, but things always change.

我腦子裡有一幅自由的圖景，15 年來從未改變，但事情總是在變化。

Places, people, feelings. Trust is brittle and hard to rebuild, but we have to try.

地點、人物、情感。信任是脆弱的，難以重建，但我們必須嘗試。

I enjoyed meeting your family. Your mom's cool.

我很高興見到你的家人。你媽媽很酷

You know that trope when everyone's like, what are you talking about, Altiori? You're so stupid.

你知道大家都會說 "你在說什麼，阿爾託莉雅？"的那一套吧？你太蠢了

Oh my god, you so don't like gay people.

天哪，你真不喜歡同志。

Okay, if you say so, but uh, was I wrong?

好吧，既然你這麼說，但我說錯了嗎？

Hmm? All modern genres of things that have a black woman lead, they always end-

嗯？所有以黑人女性為主角的現代流派，它們的結局都是--

Am I wrong? Am I wrong?

我錯了嗎？我錯了嗎？

Mm-hmm. Yeah, okay.

嗯嗯，好的

I could just be confirmation biasing as well, but at some point, you have to admit, when it's a little bit more than just coincidence now, and if the queer community themselves are noticing it, which I've already said at length, and I guess they're wrong too for pointing it out.

我也可能只是確認偏見，但在某種程度上，你不得不承認，現在這已經不僅僅是巧合了，如果同志群體自己也注意到了這一點，我已經說過很多次了，我想他們指出來也是不對的。

So this game has some heavily, overly racist tones.

是以，這款遊戲帶有濃重的種族主義色彩。

They're doing it to appeal to an audience that does not really exist in comparison with the rest of the world.

他們這樣做是為了吸引那些與世界其他地方相比並不真正存在的觀眾。

These are supposed to be the good guys, right?

他們應該是好人，對嗎？

And if you look at the lyrics of what they're saying in this clip right here, it says,

如果你看一下這個片段中的歌詞，上面寫著：

Your time has passed, you won't last, your kind won't last.

你的時代已經過去，你不會長久，你的同類也不會長久。

Like, bro, what in the Nazi regime is actually this game?

比如說，兄弟，這個遊戲到底是納粹政權的什麼東西？

And then it's the amount of gaslighting that goes on in the game itself to try and make people believe that they are the problem for pointing out what are obvious racists.

此外，遊戲本身也存在大量的 "毒氣彈"，試圖讓人們相信，他們指出了那些明顯的種族主義者，他們就是問題所在。

Like, there's actually a clip from the game, and by the way, Rueba has a full playthrough already.

比如，遊戲中確實有一個片段，順便說一下，Rueba 已經有了完整的遊戲體驗。

I'm definitely not going to pay for this game, and I don't want to really waste time playing it, but if you want to check out the actual storyline, you can go to Rueba.

我肯定不會為這款遊戲付費，也不想浪費時間去玩它，但如果你想了解真實的故事情節，可以去 Rueba。

But there's a scene that's been making its rounds, and some other channels were talking about it, and I'm just, I cannot believe that this is actually in game.

但有一個場景一直在流傳，其他一些頻道也在談論它，我簡直不敢相信這真的出現在遊戲中。

Like, this is actually something that they put in the game and thought that the majority of people were going to be down with it.

比如，他們把這個東西放進遊戲裡，並認為大多數人都會接受。

And it's not just me, like, everybody is pointing it out that in a lot of these modern day entertainment and games, all the white people are evil, particularly white, straight men.

不只是我，每個人都在指出，在很多現代娛樂和遊戲中，所有的白人都是邪惡的，尤其是白人直男。

And I don't understand how that's fighting for inclusivity.

我不明白這怎麼會是為包容性而戰。

You want diversity, and that's great, but now you're excluding whole demographics of people, and then gaslighting people into making them think that they're racist for calling out racist behavior and sexist behavior.

你想要多樣性，這很好，但現在你卻把整個人口群體都排除在外，然後對人們施以毒氣，讓他們覺得他們是種族主義者，因為他們揭露了種族主義行為和性別歧視行為。

It just doesn't make any sense to me.

這對我來說沒有任何意義。

It almost seems as though the person who made this game was trolling or something.

製作這款遊戲的人幾乎就像是在開玩笑。

Now, this isn't the only thing that encompasses the game.

現在，這並不是遊戲的唯一亮點。

There's other stuff in there too, but the way that the game was marketing itself really didn't do any favors for it, to be honest.

遊戲中還有其他內容，但老實說，遊戲本身的營銷方式並沒有給它帶來任何好處。

And I think a lot of people are just so put off by everything that's coming out nowadays, constantly attacking a huge swath of the audience.

我認為很多人都對如今的一切感到厭煩，因為它們不斷地攻擊一大批觀眾。

And even people who don't fit that demographic, they're not down with this.

即使是那些不符合這一人群的人，他們也不喜歡這樣。

You're with a black kid, dresses like a writer. Does he know anything?

你和一個黑人小孩在一起，穿得像個作家。他知道什麼嗎？

You are racist.

你是種族主義者。

Okay, so that's crazy.

好吧，這太瘋狂了。

So they're pointing out in this portion of the game that this person is utilizing the victim mentality to get out of a situation.

是以，他們在這部分遊戲中指出，這個人正在利用受害者心態來擺脫困境。

When the person or the people who are asking, that just so happened to be white-skinned, are simply just using a descriptor for a person.

當問話的人或問話的人恰好是白皮膚時，他們只是在用一個描述詞來形容一個人。

Also, it says they seem to be super weird about race.

此外，它還說他們似乎對種族問題超級敏感。

Think we can capitalize on that anxiety kid?

你覺得我們能利用孩子的焦慮嗎？

All the person said is there's a black kid who looks like a writer.

那人只說有個黑人孩子長得像作家。

I don't really see what is the issue there.

我真不明白這有什麼問題。

But if the whole narrative is that, oh, these people just want white people in their space, then that already is a problem.

但如果整個說法是，哦，這些人只是想讓白人進入他們的空間，那就已經是個問題了。

It's like you're trying to tell the players that, you know, pale-skinned people just hate everybody who's not like them.

這就好像你想告訴球員們，你知道，白皮膚的人就是討厭所有和他們不一樣的人。

And you're essentially teaching people how to become the very thing you claim you're fighting against.

而你實質上是在教人們如何成為你聲稱要反對的東西。

So they even admit that they're capitalizing on anxiety, which is not even really anxiety.

是以，他們甚至承認，他們是在利用焦慮，而焦慮其實並不是真正的焦慮。

The dialogue is the one that capitalizes the color of the person.

對白是將人的膚色大寫。

I don't see him putting any emphasis on it.

我看不出他在強調這一點。

You're with a black kid. Dresses like a writer.

你和一個黑人小孩在一起。穿得像個作家

Okay. Oh, my God. I'm getting so tired of seeing all this crap. I swear to God.

好吧天啊我已經看膩了這些垃圾我發誓

So now you're wondering why people won't play this game.

所以，你現在想知道為什麼人們不玩這款遊戲了吧。

Well, marketing does have a lot to do with it.

營銷的確與此有關。

There's some elements about this game that I think is interesting, like the RimWorld thing where each character has specific powers and whatnot.

這款遊戲的一些元素我覺得很有趣，比如《RimWorld》中每個角色都有特定的能力什麼的。

But let's look at this interview of this from this developer.

不過，讓我們來看看這位開發人員的這次採訪。

So they're saying that nobody forced them to make a game with a diverse cast.

所以他們的意思是，沒有人強迫他們製作一款演員多元化的遊戲。

No one should have to force you to do that.

沒有人應該強迫你這麼做。

Unfortunately, there are situations where that is the case.

不幸的是，在有些情況下確實如此。

But it's good to know that they didn't have to bow down to those rules or expectations.

但很高興知道，他們不必向那些規則或期望低頭。

Hello, my name is Dominique Tipper and I play Pax in Dustborn.

大家好，我叫多米尼克-蒂珀，在 Dustborn 中扮演帕克斯。

And my name is Ragnar Tornquist.

我叫拉格納-託恩奎斯特

I play Pax in Dustborn.

我在《塵埃降生》中扮演帕克斯。

And my name is Ragnar Tornquist.

我叫拉格納-託恩奎斯特

I am a creative director at Red Thread Games and game director and writer on Dustborn.

我是 Red Thread Games 的創意總監，也是《塵埃降生》的遊戲總監和編劇。

Hey, Dominique. How are you doing?

嘿，多米尼克你好嗎？

Hello. Nice to see you.

你好很高興見到你

And you. And Dominique, I think it's fair to say a lot of people recognize you from The Expanse, the very successful Amazon TV show.

還有你多米尼克，可以說很多人都認識你 來自亞馬遜非常成功的電視劇《荒原》（The Expanse）。

You've been up to something quite interesting recently.

你最近在做一件非常有趣的事。

Tell us kind of what it's all about and how you got involved with it.

跟我們說說這是怎麼回事，以及你是如何參與其中的。

I play Pax in Dustborn.

我在《塵埃降生》中扮演帕克斯。

She's the kind of person that you play in the game and you're following her story.

她是你在遊戲中扮演的那種人，你會關注她的故事。

And she is what you call an anomal.

她就是你所說的異常人。

It means that she has this kind of power where she can weaponize and use her words.

這意味著她擁有這種力量，她可以將自己的語言武器化並加以利用。

So she's on the run with like a group of her kind of friends and family, found family.

所以她和她的一群朋友和家人一起逃亡，找到了家人。

As the game goes on, you kind of develop relationships with them.

隨著遊戲的進行，你會與他們建立某種關係。

And they are delivering a package to Nova Scotia in Canada.

他們正在向加拿大新斯科舍省運送一個包裹。

So that's kind of the premise of the game.

這就是遊戲的前提。

When you have a moment, I'd like to talk about something.

如果你有時間，我想和你談點事。

How actually does a developer based in Norway end up working on a game that's set in a sort of futuristic dystopian USA?

一個總部設在挪威的開發商，究竟是如何開發出一款以未來美國的烏托邦為背景的遊戲的？

That's a good question. It's not the first time I've heard that question.

這個問題問得好。我已經不是第一次聽到這個問題了。

I mean, first off, the idea of the American road trip is very, very sort of embedded in our culture, I think.

我的意思是，首先，我認為美國公路旅行的理念已經深深紮根於我們的文化之中。

It's sort of a default in many ways, right, in terms of pop culture.

從流行文化的角度來看，這在很多方面都是一種默認。

It's where a lot of pop culture comes from.

很多流行文化都來自這裡。

So right off the bat, nothing is wrong with this.

所以一開始，這並沒有什麼問題。

When you listen to this interview, it seems like people just wanted to tell a story about these group of friends going on a road trip.

當你聽這個訪談的時候，似乎人們只是想講一個關於這群朋友公路旅行的故事。

A lot of people like that whole thing, I guess.

我想，很多人都喜歡這樣。

The colors pop. A lot of people might be drawn in because of that.

色彩鮮豔。很多人可能會是以被吸引。

It looks different. Not really.

它看起來與眾不同。其實沒有。

But if they're used to playing other types of games in this genre, they may think it looks different.

但是，如果他們習慣於玩其他類型的遊戲，他們可能會認為這款遊戲看起來與眾不同。

And so nothing's inherently wrong with this.

是以，這本身並沒有什麼問題。

But then it gets weird.

但接下來就變得奇怪了。

And I know some people might not see it, but it's good to get an eye as to why people of all different colors and backgrounds and sexual orientations are not down with these types of entertainment as the interview goes on.

我知道有些人可能看不到這一點，但隨著採訪的深入，我們可以看到為什麼不同膚色、不同背景、不同性取向的人都不喜歡這類娛樂節目。

See, diversity is a good thing unless you weaponize it or use it to divide people.

你看，多樣性是個好東西，除非你把它武器化或用來分裂人民。

Sure, and about language and about, like I said, this melting pot of cultures and ideas and politics.

當然，還有語言，就像我說的，這個文化、思想和政治的大熔爐。

Except for the white people, though. They forgot to add that.

但白人除外。他們忘了加上這一點。

There is a bit of a melting pot there. You've got a very diverse array of characters.

那裡有點像個大熔爐。這裡有各種各樣的人物。

There's a lot of focus in the industry at the moment on making sure that characters that do come from different backgrounds are kind of authentically represented.

目前，業界非常關注如何確保來自不同背景的角色得到真實的表現。

How have you approached that challenge with Dustborn?

您是如何應對《塵埃降生》的這一挑戰的？

That's an interesting question, because as you probably know, there are a lot of gamers in the world who are unhappy with games that have characters that don't necessarily look like gaming characters used to look 10, 20, 30 years ago.

這是一個有趣的問題，因為你可能知道，世界上有很多遊戲玩家對遊戲中的角色不滿意，因為這些角色的外觀不一定像 10 年、20 年、30 年前的遊戲角色。

I don't know what he's talking about here, because there's a lot of games that existed 20, 30 years ago that also had diverse characters.

我不知道他在說什麼，因為二三十年前有很多遊戲也有多樣化的角色。

But they weren't fixating on the color of those characters.

但他們並沒有糾結於這些角色的膚色。

I mean, we have Final Fantasy VII all the way from 1997, the original one, of which Barret was a very integral character.

我的意思是，我們有 1997 年的《最終幻想 7》，原版的《最終幻想 7》中，巴雷特是一個不可或缺的角色。

Black characters being in video games is not a brand new thing that just happened over the past five years.

電子遊戲中出現黑人角色並不是過去五年才發生的新鮮事。

I don't know if these people just came into existence just now, but their ignorance is showing.

我不知道這些人是不是剛剛才出現，但他們的無知正在顯現。

Other characters who were non-white have been in video games, so I don't know what this person is talking about.

視頻遊戲中也出現過其他非白人角色，所以我不知道這個人在說什麼。

And all it serves to do is showcase his ignorance and showcase how much of a liar he is.

而這一切只是為了展示他的無知，展示他是一個多麼會撒謊的人。

He's either very ignorant or he's straight up lying.

他要麼非常無知，要麼就是在撒謊。

And the thing is, people can see right through this, because I don't know if these people forget that everybody has the internet at their fingertips so we can look this stuff up.

問題是，人們一眼就能看穿這一切，因為我不知道這些人是否忘記了，每個人的指尖上都有互聯網，我們可以查到這些東西。

And a lot of gamers have played a lot of these other games, me included.

很多玩家都玩過很多其他遊戲，包括我在內。

I have played a lot of video games.

我玩過很多電子遊戲。

And when they say, well, you know, 10 years ago, they didn't look like this.

當他們說，你知道，10 年前，他們不是這個樣子的。

What are you talking about?

你在說什麼？

I have collected freaking retro games that the graphics look terrible and there are non-white characters in them.

我收集的復古遊戲畫面都很糟糕，裡面的人物也不是白人。

Playable non-white characters.

可扮演的非白人角色

So I'm so confused as to what this person is talking about.

所以我很困惑，不知道這個人在說什麼。

I'm actually shocked when I go back and I look at old movies from like the 1950s all the way up to the 1980s.

當我回過頭去看上世紀 50 年代一直到 80 年代的老電影時，我真的很震驚。

Like, even the 19-freaking-40s.

就像，甚至是 19 世紀 40 年代。

Like, you look back even further.

比如，你再往前看。

Was it the best representation?

這是最好的代表嗎？

Maybe not so, but there are so many movies with black lead characters.

也許不是這樣，但有很多電影的主角都是黑人。

And funny enough, back then they were represented more tastefully than the media is representing them now, which is what makes this all crazy to me.

有趣的是，那時對他們的報道比現在媒體對他們的報道更有品位，這讓我覺得這一切都很瘋狂。

So this person, this already drops off.

所以，這個人，已經掉下去了。

If anyone was looking to buy this game and they were listening to this person speak, this would already turn them off.

如果有人想買這款遊戲，但聽了這個人的發言，就會打消這個念頭。

Just that line right there.

就是那句話

We really set out to create a cast of characters that just feel like a representation of the world as it is today and America as it is.

我們真正的目的是要創造一個角色陣容，讓他們感覺就像是當今世界和美國的代表。

You know, it's diverse.

你知道，它是多樣化的。

It's not just filled with people who look like me.

這裡不只有長得像我的人。

Oh my God.

我的天啊

These people don't get out much, clearly.

這些人顯然不常出門。

Is he being held at gunpoint?

他被槍指著嗎？

Why is he blinking so rapidly?

他為什麼眨眼那麼快？

Stockholm Syndrome much? Are you okay?

斯德哥爾摩綜合症？你還好嗎？

The world as it is today, if you go throughout the majority of the world, it does not look like the major cities in America.

今天的世界，如果你走遍世界的大部分地區，它看起來並不像美國的大城市。

I'm sorry.

對不起

The reason why diversity is so beautiful is because people come from specific geographical locations and they have specific phenotypes.

多樣性之所以如此美麗，是因為人們來自特定的地理位置，具有特定的表型。

They look a certain way.

他們看起來是這樣的

They have different colors because of where they hail from.

它們因為來自不同的地方而有不同的顏色。

Ecuadorians, Italians, Greek people, Spaniards, Asian people, East Asian, South Asian, West Asian, North African, South African.

厄瓜多爾人、意大利人、希臘人、西班牙人、亞洲人、東亞人、南亞人、西亞人、北非人、南非人。

If you look at all these different countries and cultures, you'll see what makes them different.

如果你看看這些不同的國家和文化，就會發現它們的不同之處。

I mean, they wouldn't be diverse if they didn't come from somewhere else to make them look different.

我的意思是，如果他們不是來自其他地方，使他們看起來與眾不同，他們就不會是多樣化的。

They all have different things that they do.

他們都有自己不同的工作。

And I think it's really cool looking at all the different people from around the world and seeing what they do for fun.

我覺得，看看世界各地不同的人，看看他們的娛樂活動，真的很酷。

Their diet, their mannerisms, their clothes, the way they express themselves, their views, their hair.

他們的飲食、舉止、衣著、表達方式、觀點、髮型。

Like, this is what makes diversity.

比如，這就是多樣性的魅力所在。

Look how freaking badass, beautiful a lot of these people are.

你看，這些人中有很多人都是超級大美女。

You go to places like South Korea.

你去韓國這樣的地方。

The languages, the foods.

語言、食物

It's honestly very telling when people only think in the realms of Western, American, white people being the very core thing that they base everybody else off of.

老實說，當人們只把西方人、美國人、白人作為自己的核心，並以此為基礎來思考其他所有人時，就很能說明問題了。

Like, nobody else exists.

就像沒有其他人一樣。

And that only showcases that you have a very narrow view of race and ethnicity.

這隻能說明你對種族和民族的看法非常狹隘。

You know, when people talk about internalized racism and they use it as an insult to other people who are non-white and white for calling them out for their gaslighting, it's these people they should be referring to.

要知道，當人們談論內在化的種族主義時，他們把它作為對其他非白人和白人的侮辱，因為他們罵他們是毒氣彈，他們應該指的是這些人。

Because nobody else is overly as hung up on what the skin color of characters look like as the people making these games.

因為沒有人會像製作這些遊戲的人一樣，對遊戲角色的膚色過於在意。

And this is body language.

這就是肢體語言。

He seems like he's being forced to say this.

他好像是被迫這麼說的。

He says that's not the case, but you don't sound like you're speaking with your own mind.

他說事實並非如此，但聽起來你不像是在用自己的想法說話。

You're speaking as though you're trying to impress someone.

你說得好像在討好誰似的。

You know, it's diverse.

你知道，它是多樣化的。

It's not just filled with people who look like me.

這裡不只有長得像我的人。

And that's also why we've sort of tapped into the cast we have, writers who are more representative of the characters in the game, and trying to sort of just learn more and try to create a more diverse cast than most games have.

這也是我們挖掘現有演員的原因，這些編劇更能代表遊戲中的角色，我們也在努力學習更多的知識，試圖打造一個比大多數遊戲更多元化的演員陣容。