Sometimes there are performers in front of the animated films and they become theatre or opera.

有時，卡通片前會有表演者，這就成了戲劇或歌劇。

So it becomes a drawing in four dimensions, in space and extending over time.

這樣，它就變成了一幅四維空間的繪畫，並隨著時間的推移而延伸。

The studio here is both a vital physical and psychic space.

這裡的工作室既是一個重要的物質空間，也是一個重要的精神空間。

In a way you can think of it as a kind of expansion of one's head where instead of a thought travelling three centimetres from one part of the brain to another it's the eight metres walk across the studio from one drawing to another image and filling the studio with all the stages of a project as it happens, the ink, the charcoal, the pages, the previous drawings physically there, is a vital part.

在某種程度上，你可以把它看作是一個人頭腦的擴展，在這裡，一個想法不是從大腦的一個部分到另一個部分的三釐米，而是在工作室裡從一幅畫到另一幅畫的八米路程，工作室裡充滿了一個項目發生時的所有階段，墨水、木炭、書頁、以前的畫都在那裡，這是至關重要的一部分。

This is the studio, the garden studio, there's a larger studio in town where the workshops happen, where sculptures are made, but this is where animation, the drawing, the editing happens.

這裡是工作室，花園工作室，鎮上還有一個更大的工作室，在那裡舉辦工作坊，製作雕塑，但這裡是製作動畫、繪畫和剪輯的地方。

I guess it all starts from charcoal drawings.

我想一切都要從炭筆畫開始。

You can change charcoal as quickly as you can change your mind.

你可以像改變主意一樣迅速地改變木炭。

One can take a drawing and with one brush it just disappears.

你可以拿起一幅畫，輕輕一刷，它就消失了。

So there's a flexibility in it as well as a kind of granularity that I really like.

是以，我非常喜歡它的靈活性和精細度。

You know the brushes when you get them keep a good point so you can work quite accurately and as they get more used they become more recalcitrant and don't keep their shape.

要知道，剛拿到刷子時，它們的筆尖都很好，是以可以很精確地工作，而隨著使用時間的增加，它們會變得越來越頑固，無法保持形狀。

So there's a kind of different ways of drawing with either the good or the bad brush.

是以，無論是用好畫筆還是壞畫筆，都有一種不同的繪畫方式。

Like the charcoal it's very adjustable, it's adjustable not by rubbing it out but by sticking other sheets over and it's kind of got a speed that one can...

就像木炭一樣，它的可調節性很強，它不是通過摩擦來調節，而是通過在上面粘上其他薄片來調節，而且它有一種速度，人們可以...

I had two lives as an artist.

作為一名藝術家，我有兩種生活。

One after university when I made etchings and taught at an art school and had an exhibition and then I decided I didn't have the right to be an artist.

大學畢業後，我做過蝕刻畫，在一所藝術學校教過書，辦過展覽，後來我覺得自己沒有資格成為一名藝術家。

I had nothing to say.

我無話可說。

Tried to become an actor, failed at that, tried to become a filmmaker, failed at that and discovered almost in spite of myself that I was back in the studio making drawings.

我曾想成為一名演員，但失敗了；我曾想成為一名電影製片人，但失敗了。

And that's when I suppose a year or so after that I could finally write on a visa application form occupation artist.

就在那時，我想一年左右之後，我終於可以在簽證申請表上寫上 "職業藝術家 "了。

There has to be an initial impulse which might be an image, it might be a phrase and it has to be enough to get the first drawing done.

必須有一種最初的衝動，可能是一個影像，也可能是一個短語，它必須足以完成第一幅畫。

And then the hope is that in the physical activity of making the drawings new ideas emerge and possibilities are seen which then start to direct it.

然後，我們希望在繪製這些圖畫的過程中，能產生新的想法，看到新的可能性，從而開始指導繪製工作。

And then after a while you start saying well what does it start to add up to?

然後過了一段時間，你就會開始說，這些錢加起來有多少？

What are the kind of concerns that are coming out in the work and that becomes the shape.

工作中會出現什麼樣的問題，這就是工作的形式。

The idea of being an artist is that all the different mediums are open to you in which to explore the world which is to say to explore your relationship to the world as an artist.

作為藝術家的理念是，所有不同的媒介都向你開放，讓你探索世界，也就是探索你作為藝術家與世界的關係。

I don't negate my position as an artist.

我不會否定自己作為藝術家的地位。

It's both an inside and outside position.

這既是內線位置，也是外線位置。

It's both an insider as a child of privilege of being, you know, white middle class South African who's had the first 40 years of my life under apartheid in the last 20 years in the period since the first democratic elections.

我是南非白人中產階級，在種族隔離制度下度過了我生命中的前 40 年，在第一次民主選舉後的 20 年裡，我作為特權階層的子女，既是內部人士，也是外部人士。

So aware of those contradictions.

太清楚這些矛盾了。

That's the position from which the art has always been made.

這就是藝術一直以來的創作立場。

Where sort of a self-awareness is deeply built into the process.

在這一過程中，自我意識被深深地植入其中。

I think there's an important polemical and political role in art in defending the uncertain, in having critique of all forms of certainty whether it's authoritarian politics or certainty of knowledge of making ambiguity and contradiction its central lifeblood showing that these are not just mistakes at the edge of understanding but the way in which understanding is constructed of making us aware of constructing meaning rather than receiving information.

我認為，藝術在捍衛不確定性、批判各種形式的確定性（無論是專制政治還是知識的確定性）、將模稜兩可和矛盾作為其核心命脈方面，具有重要的論戰和政治作用。

These are all things that are natural to art and they're all our kind of models of how understanding the world could be.

這些都是藝術的天性，也是我們理解世界的一種模式。

The studio in town is a larger machine.

城裡的工作室是一臺更大的機器。

It's where we make the sculptures, where we film workshops, where we do rehearsals.

我們在這裡製作雕塑，在這裡拍攝工作坊，在這裡進行排練。

So it has a different kind of functioning.

是以，它具有不同的功能。

So a lot of things are filmed there and then brought back here and we look at them on a much smaller scale in the model.

是以，很多東西都是在那裡拍攝的，然後帶回這裡，我們在模型中以更小的比例進行觀察。

It's not that I've chosen to base myself.

這並不是說我選擇了以自己為基礎。

I've chosen to never leave where I am, where I have been based and where I come from.

我選擇永遠不離開我所在的地方、我的基地和我的故鄉。

There were many times when it seemed both possible, sometimes when it seemed a good idea to not be in this madness of the South African political maelstrom.

有很多時候，這似乎都是可能的，有時，不捲入南非政治漩渦的瘋狂似乎是個好主意。

But fundamentally I've understood that the work and the connection to the people here and to the politics and to the world is fundamental to the work.

但從根本上說，我已經明白，工作以及與這裡的人們、政治和世界的聯繫是工作的根本。

Even if the work isn't about that, even if it's painting a landscape or drawing a landscape or an ink, drawing of a portrait, it's very inflected by what it is to be here, by the city that is an animation in itself.

即使作品與此無關，即使是畫一幅山水畫、一幅風景畫或一幅水墨畫、一幅肖像畫，它也會被這裡的一切所影響，被這座本身就是動畫的城市所影響。

And that's always been very valuable to me and that's why I've stayed here all these years. www.circlelineartschool.com

這對我來說一直非常寶貴，這也是我這些年來一直留在這裡的原因。www.circlelineartschool.com。