Welcome back to my channel.

歡迎回到我的頻道。

If you don't already know, my name is Christi, and this channel exists to help people who are deconstructing or unpacking their conservative, evangelical, and fundamentalist Christian ideologies.

如果你還不知道，我的名字叫克里斯蒂，這個頻道的存在是為了幫助那些正在解構或解讀保守派、福音派和原教旨主義基督教意識形態的人。

I was raised Southern Baptist as an evangelical Christian for all of my life until I became an adult, and then I realized that I no longer believed any of it.

我從小就是南浸信會的福音派基督徒，直到我長大成人，我才意識到我不再相信任何東西。

And it was not that quick of a process.

這個過程並不那麼快。

It was a very long journey of me really trying to figure out what I believed, but I did eventually come to the conclusion that I just didn't believe in Christian ideologies, and I really didn't believe in God at all.

這是一段漫長的旅程，我一直在努力弄清自己的信仰，但我最終得出的結論是，我就是不相信基督教的意識形態，我真的根本不相信上帝。

So I do consider myself an agnostic atheist, and I like to kind of put this all out at the beginning of the video so people understand who I am, where I'm coming from, and what my intentions are.

是以，我認為自己是一個不可知論的無神論者，我喜歡在視頻一開始就把這些都說出來，讓人們瞭解我是誰，我從哪裡來，我的意圖是什麼。

Recently, I received a comment from a viewer who had a really important question for me, and I thought it would make a really interesting discussion for a video.

最近，我收到了一位觀眾的評論，他向我提出了一個非常重要的問題，我認為這將是一個非常有趣的視頻討論。

And so I'm going to kind of shorten it because it's a little bit of a long comment, but I will put the entire comment in the description of this video so that you can read it for yourself.

因為評論有點長，所以我打算把它縮短，但我會把整個評論放在視頻的描述中，這樣你就可以自己閱讀了。

So this commenter says, you say in this video, the video that they were commenting on, that believing something without evidence to make yourself comfortable, faith as you defined it, is okay.

所以這位評論者說，你在這段視頻中，也就是他們評論的這段視頻中說，在沒有證據的情況下相信一些東西來讓自己舒服，也就是你定義的信仰，是可以的。

I would say it's never okay.

我想說，這永遠都不會好。

I've seen enough harm that comes from faith that I'm willing to say it more than often than not leads to unnecessary harm.

我見過的因信仰而造成的傷害已經夠多了，所以我願意說，信仰往往會帶來不必要的傷害。

This is the absolute minimum harm faith can do, create unnecessary vulnerability to further harm.

這絕對是信仰所能造成的最小傷害，它製造了不必要的脆弱性，使人更容易受到傷害。

Could you maybe explain how you can be so comfortable with faith that you can call having it okay?

你能不能解釋一下，你怎麼能對信仰如此泰然自若，以至於認為擁有信仰也沒什麼？

I agree that what this commenter says, that faith can create unnecessary vulnerability to further harm.

我同意這位評論者所說的，信仰會造成不必要的傷害。

I agree with that because it's true that when you're not practicing critical thinking, it can be very easy to fall for things that aren't true.

我同意這一點，因為當你沒有進行批判性思考時，確實很容易被一些不真實的東西所迷惑。

Critical thinking is a really specific process that you kind of go through to carefully examine and kind of scrutinize the things that are being presented to you.

批判性思維是一個非常具體的過程，你要通過這個過程來仔細檢查和審視呈現在你面前的事物。

So you can filter out the things that aren't true and only accept the things that are.

這樣，你就能過濾掉不真實的東西，只接受真實的東西。

And we all get it wrong.

我們都弄錯了。

I get it wrong sometimes.

我有時會弄錯。

I'm sure I believe things that are, well I know I do, I believe things that aren't true all the time and I have to get corrected or you know figure it out for myself.

我相信我相信的東西，我知道我相信，我總是相信一些不真實的東西，我必須得到糾正，或者你知道，我必須自己弄清楚。

I'm sure that there are beliefs right now that I hold that aren't true.

我相信，我現在持有的一些信念並不正確。

So this is not, I'm not saying this is a Christian problem or a religious problem, this is a problem across the board.

所以，這不是，我不是說這是基督教的問題或宗教問題，這是一個全面的問題。

And this commenter does bring this up in a part where they talk about kind of astrology and legitimizing that.

這位評論者在談到占星術和占星術合法化的部分確實提到了這一點。

And so I agree that when you're not practicing critical thinking and you're engaging in blind faith or blind belief that you do open yourself up to accepting things that aren't true because you're not practicing critical thinking.

所以我同意，當你沒有進行批判性思考，而是盲目相信或盲目信仰時，你就會接受那些不真實的東西，因為你沒有進行批判性思考。

So for example if you aren't practicing critical thinking and you're just believing things you know just kind of on a whim or you know for bad reasons perhaps, you might be more susceptible to being scammed or more susceptible to baseless conspiracy theories.

是以，舉例來說，如果你沒有進行批判性思考，只是一時興起或出於不好的原因相信一些你知道的事情，你可能更容易被騙或更容易受到毫無根據的陰謀論的影響。

And presented so that they can make sure that what they believe is true.

這樣，他們就能確保自己所相信的都是真的。

I think we all want to believe things that are true.

我想我們都願意相信真實的事情。

And it isn't the faith or the belief that is necessarily the problem, it's often the actions that follow.

問題不一定在於信仰或信念，而往往在於隨之而來的行動。

So for example people who have faith or believe in these evangelical Christian ideologies, they might go out and cause harm to other people by maybe insulting them for their non-belief or threatening them with hell or maybe they'll go out and vote against the rights of those in the LGBTQ plus community.

是以，舉例來說，那些有信仰或相信基督教福音派意識形態的人，他們可能會去傷害其他人，可能會侮辱不信仰他們的人，或威脅他們下地獄，也可能會去投票反對 LGBTQ 加群體的權利。

Maybe they vote against the bodily autonomy rights of women.

也許他們投票反對婦女的身體自主權。

So we can see as non-believers, as people who believe in critical thinking, that a lot of times these behaviors that follow the blind belief and faith can cause a lot of harm.

是以，作為非信徒，作為相信批判性思維的人，我們可以看到，很多時候，這些盲目相信和信仰的行為會造成很大的傷害。

And I'll admit that I used to be someone who was very very angry about Christian ideologies, about faith, and I did at one time consider myself an anti-theist because I saw the harm that was being done, I experienced the harm myself, and I just in my through a lot of therapy and introspection that anger is a secondary emotion.

我承認，我曾經是一個對基督教意識形態和信仰非常非常憤怒的人，我曾一度認為自己是一個反神論者，因為我看到了傷害，我親身經歷了傷害，我只是通過大量的治療和檢討發現，憤怒是一種次要情緒。

That the reason I was so angry and frustrated was because there was something underneath that I was protecting.

我之所以如此憤怒和沮喪，是因為在我的內心深處有某種東西在保護著我。

Anger protects.

憤怒是一種保護。

And so what it was protecting was my fear, my trauma, my pain, my sadness.

是以，它所保護的是我的恐懼、創傷、痛苦和悲傷。

There were all these emotions that I was trying to protect with my anger.

我試圖用憤怒來保護所有這些情感。

And so instead of you know just being angry, I got more curious about where this was coming from and why I felt this way.

是以，我不再一味地憤怒，而是更加好奇這一切的來源，以及我為什麼會有這種感覺。

And I've talked about this in other videos, when you are introspective, when you become curious about your feelings and about yourself, it becomes easier to extend that empathy and that curiosity to other people.

我在其他視頻中也談到過這一點，當你內省的時候，當你對自己的感受和自己變得好奇的時候，你就會更容易將這種同理心和好奇心延伸到其他人身上。

And so instead of being so angry about people's blind faith and blind belief and lack of critical thinking, I decided to get curious.

是以，我不再對人們的盲目信仰、盲目信念和缺乏批判性思維感到憤怒，而是決定變得好奇起來。

And I think that's a really important key in this conversation is being curious about why people believe what they believe.

我認為，在這場對話中，一個非常重要的關鍵是，要對人們為什麼相信他們所相信的東西感到好奇。

Why do people have faith?

人們為什麼會有信仰？

Belief is a really complex thing.

信仰是一件非常複雜的事情。

What you believe, you don't necessarily choose.

你相信什麼，並不一定由你來選擇。

Belief is not a choice.

信仰不是一種選擇。

It's not a switch you can turn on and off.

這不是一個可以打開或關閉的開關。

It is the result of becoming convinced of something.

這是對某件事情深信不疑的結果。

You, through a process, become convinced of a thing and then you hold the belief.

通過一個過程，你會對某件事情深信不疑，然後你就會堅持這個信念。

And that's not always just a clear-cut journey.

而這並不總是一帆風順的。

What you believe is heavily influenced by your environment, your brain chemistry, your parents, you know, how you were raised.

你所相信的東西在很大程度上受你所處的環境、你的大腦化學成分、你的父母以及你的成長方式的影響。

There are so many factors that contribute to a belief.

形成信念的因素有很多。

Sometimes it's fear.

有時是恐懼

Sometimes people are just so afraid of the consequences of not believing that they just kind of hold on to that belief because of that.

有時候，人們只是太害怕不相信的後果，所以才會堅持這種信念。

And so I think it's really important to remember that people don't, just like people don't really choose to be an atheist or choose to be a non-believer.

是以，我認為重要的是要記住，人們不會，就像人們不會真的選擇成為無神論者或選擇成為非信徒一樣。

I didn't.

我沒有。

I didn't seek out to become an atheist.

我並不想成為無神論者。

It's just kind of the natural result of realizing I don't believe in God.

這只是意識到我不相信上帝后的自然結果。

In the same way, people don't choose to believe in Christianity or choose to believe in really anything.

同樣，人們不會選擇信仰基督教，也不會選擇信仰任何東西。

You can control the information that you expose yourself to.

你可以控制自己接觸到的資訊。

You can take actions to learn and explore and all of these things, but not everybody has the same opportunities to learn and explore and be curious about their beliefs.

你可以採取行動去學習、探索和做所有這些事情，但並不是每個人都有同樣的機會去學習、探索和對自己的信仰充滿好奇。

We live in a very complex world and everyone is different.

我們生活在一個非常複雜的世界，每個人都是不同的。

Everybody's living in a very different situation.

每個人都生活在不同的環境中。

And so there are people who were raised to believe these things.

是以，有些人從小就相信這些東西。

They were taught by people they love and trust like their parents and their pastor.

他們的父母和牧師等他們愛戴和信任的人教導他們。

They have been fed fear-based tactics and they feel comfortable there.

他們被灌輸了基於恐懼的策略，他們在那裡感覺很舒服。

They might, you know, find a lot of peace and hope and praying to God.

你知道，他們可能會找到很多平靜和希望，並向上帝祈禱。

And they might have really never known any different and don't have a reason to look but a result of a process, then I also have to show that same respect to other people who do believe and understand that their belief is not a choice but a result of a process.

他們可能真的從來就不知道有什麼不同，也沒有理由去看，只是一個過程的結果，那麼我也必須對其他有信仰的人表示同樣的尊重，並理解他們的信仰不是一種選擇，而是一個過程的結果。

And so we're both coming from the same place.

是以，我們的出發點是一致的。

We might not be coming to the same conclusions, but we're coming from the same place where we believe or disbelieve something based on becoming convinced or unconvinced of something.

我們得出的結論可能不盡相同，但我們的出發點是一樣的，我們相信或不相信某件事情，都是基於對某件事情的信服或不信服。

And what convinces you, that can change drastically from person to person.

而讓你信服的東西，可能會因人而異。

And so when we get curious rather than being judgmental, I think it opens the doors for us to find more middle ground and for us to have more productive conversations.

是以，當我們保持好奇心，而不是妄加評論時，我認為這就為我們打開了一扇門，讓我們找到更多的中間立場，讓我們進行更有成效的對話。

I think we should encourage critical thinking.

我認為我們應該鼓勵批判性思維。

I think we should encourage people to think about what they believe.

我認為我們應該鼓勵人們思考自己的信仰。

That's why I ask a lot of questions here.

所以我在這裡問了很多問題。

You'll see, like, I love to ask questions because instead of just telling people what I think, if I ask them more about what they think, it's going to naturally encourage them to go through that process themselves.

你會發現，我喜歡問問題，因為如果我問他們更多關於他們的想法，而不是直接告訴他們我的想法，自然會鼓勵他們自己去經歷這個過程。

Empathy and trying to understand where people are coming from, why they're coming from that place, will kind of will get us a lot further than just automatically dismissing people and being judgmental.

換位思考，試著去理解人們的出發點，理解他們為什麼會從那個地方出發，這比自動否定別人和評判別人要讓我們走得更遠。

And I know this because I've been there.

我知道這一點，因為我經歷過。

Like, I have been through so many walks on this journey over the last 15 years, and I've just really concluded that being angry and judgmental and dismissive, it's not really going to get us anywhere.

在過去的 15 年裡，我在這條路上走過了很多地方，我得出的結論是，憤怒、批判和輕視並不能讓我們取得任何進展。

I had to sit down and I had to ask myself, what is my end goal?

我必須坐下來問問自己，我的最終目標是什麼？

Like, what do I want to accomplish?

比如，我想完成什麼任務？

Do I just want to be right?

我只想做對的人嗎？

Do I just want to feel superior?

我只是想感覺自己高人一等嗎？

Or do I want to make positive change?

還是我想做出積極的改變？

And if I want to make positive change, I have to take a different approach.

如果我想做出積極的改變，就必須採取不同的方法。

I can't just be dismissive of people who I think might hold bad beliefs or hold beliefs for bad reasons.

我不能對那些我認為可能持有不良信仰或出於不良原因持有信仰的人不屑一顧。

I have to meet them where they are, and I have to be curious and empathetic to their position if I ever want to get into a place where I could encourage them to think more critically about what they believe.

如果我想鼓勵他們對自己的信仰進行更批判性的思考，我就必須滿足他們的需求，對他們的立場充滿好奇和同情。

If your end goal is to have people really question what they believe, well, be curious about them.

如果你的最終目標是讓人們真正質疑自己的信仰，那就對他們充滿好奇吧。

Meet them where they are.

就地取材。

Ask them a lot of questions.

問他們很多問題。

You know, kind of get them to a place where they are thinking.

你知道的，讓他們去思考。

They're going through that process that you once went through.

他們正在經歷你曾經經歷過的過程。

If I were to have a conversation with someone who was questioning what I think or my lack of belief, I would be happy to talk about it.

如果有人質疑我的想法或我缺乏信仰，我會很樂意與他交談。

I think it's interesting.

我覺得這很有趣。

It's fascinating.

太迷人了

I like to talk.

我喜歡說話。

I'm a talker.

我是個健談的人。

I wouldn't have a YouTube channel where all I do is talk if I didn't like to talk, and so I enjoy having these conversations.

如果我不喜歡說話，我就不會在 YouTube 上開設一個只說不做的頻道，所以我很享受這種對話。

I don't enjoy being dismissed.

我不喜歡被駁回。

I don't enjoy when people make assumptions about me, assumptions about my intentions when I'm having these one-on-one conversations.

我不喜歡別人在我進行一對一談話時對我做出假設，對我的意圖做出假設。

I think we should meet people where they are.

我認為，我們應該順應人們的需求。

We should listen to why they believe what they believe and try to find some middle ground, and then they might be more receptive, and you might be more receptive to really thinking more critically about what you believe in.

我們應該傾聽他們為什麼相信他們所相信的，並嘗試找到一些中間立場，這樣他們可能會更容易接受，而你也可能會更容易接受，真正對你所相信的東西進行更批判性的思考。

It goes both ways.

這是雙向的。

I think a part of this common, like this finding common ground is understanding that even when people do harmful things or use their beliefs to enact harmful policies or treat others with unkindness or what we perceive to be unkindness, that they are also doing so from a place of fear or perhaps pain or, you know, feeling threatened because I can understand that if my anger and my dismissiveness from my unbelief or from my departure from Christianity, if I can understand that that emotion was masking the fear and the harm because of their beliefs, that they are also protecting those emotions underneath.

我認為，這種共同點的一部分，就像找到共同點一樣，就是要理解，即使人們做了有害的事情，或利用他們的信仰制定有害的政策，或以不友善或我們認為不友善的方式對待他人，他們這樣做也是出於恐懼，或者也許是痛苦，或者，你知道，感覺受到了威脅，因為我可以理解，如果我的憤怒和輕蔑來自於我的不信或來自於我對基督教的背離，如果我能理解，這種情緒是在掩蓋恐懼和傷害，因為他們的信仰，他們也在保護著內心的這些情緒。

They have a fear of hell, and they have a fear of you going to hell.

他們害怕下地獄，也害怕你下地獄。

They have an existential threat, or at least they feel like it is, to their being, to their religion.

他們的存在、他們的宗教面臨著威脅，或者至少他們覺得存在著威脅。

They think that there is this threat to their religious freedom, and so they act from that place.

他們認為自己的宗教自由受到了威脅，所以就從這個角度出發採取行動。

And so it's really interesting to just from different places, and then we use the anger and the dismissiveness to kind of protect that.

是以，從不同的角度來看，這真的很有趣，然後我們用憤怒和輕蔑來保護它。

But if we can see past that, if we can kind of get past the anger and get past the harm that is being done and see through to what's underneath, see through to people's humanity, well then we're going to find common ground, and we'll be able to have more productive conversations with them.

但是，如果我們能看透這一點，如果我們能摒棄憤怒，摒棄正在造成的傷害，看透內在的東西，看透人們的人性，那麼我們就能找到共同點，我們就能與他們進行更有成效的對話。

I understand that sometimes I can be a little snarky here.

我知道，有時我在這裡會有點尖酸刻薄。

People do tell me that a lot, and I am snarky because I am talking about something that has harmed me, and I think I have earned that right, and I think ex-Christians have earned that right.

人們經常這樣對我說，我之所以尖刻，是因為我說的是傷害過我的事情，我認為我贏得了這種權利，我認為前基督徒也贏得了這種權利。

I think people who have never been Christians and who live in a society where their livelihood, their bodily autonomy, their right to exist, their right to marry who they love, when that is being threatened, I think at minimum they have the right to be snarky and to be frustrated and to do something about it.

我認為，那些從來都不是基督徒的人生活在這樣一個社會里，當他們的生計、身體自主權、生存權、與自己所愛的人結婚的權利受到威脅時，我認為他們至少有權冷嘲熱諷、感到沮喪，併為此做些什麼。

I think that that is warranted.

我認為這是應該的。

But at the same time, I do want to be more empathetic and compassionate.

但與此同時，我確實想變得更有同理心和同情心。

I want to have more productive conversations.

我想進行更有成效的對話。

I want to encourage people to think more critically about what they believe and why they believe it, and to work within themselves that critical thinking process to find reason and rationality through our conversations, because we'll never be able to have that if we're just being judgmental and dismissive, and I'm not saying I don't, I'm not judgmental.

我想鼓勵人們更批判性地思考自己的信仰和信仰的原因，在批判性思考的過程中，通過我們的對話找到理性和合理性，因為如果我們只是一味地評判和輕視，我們將永遠無法擁有理性和合理性，我並不是說我不這樣做，我也不評判。

I'm not saying that at all, and I'm not saying that I don't ever, you know, that I always get it right because I don't.

我完全不是這個意思，我也不是說我從來沒有，你知道，我總是能做對，因為我沒有。

I'm talking about myself as much as I'm talking to you here.

我說的是我自己，就像在跟你說話一樣。

This is not a lecture.

這不是講座。

I have been having these conversations for a long time.

這些對話我已經聽了很久了。

I have lost relationships with a lot of my family members because of this.

因為這個原因，我和很多家人失去了聯繫。

This is a very important and big part of my life.

這是我生活中非常重要和重要的一部分。

This, you know, this departure from Christianity and what I've been through, what I've experienced because of it, it has shaped me as a person, and so I will never be able to escape it, and so I like having these conversations, and I think it's important to try to take what we've been through, if we can, if we are in a place where we, you know, have found healing and peace, not in a place of anger, if we can get to a point where we can try to have more productive conversations, meet people where they are, be curious about why they believe what they believe, I think we'll get a lot further, and I think that the goal should not be to encourage people to not have faith.

你知道，這種背離基督教的行為，以及我所經歷的一切，我是以而體驗到的一切，塑造了我這個人，所以我永遠無法擺脫它，所以我喜歡進行這些對話，我認為重要的是，如果我們能夠，如果我們身處其中，我們所經歷的一切、你知道，我們已經找到了癒合與和平，而不是在一個憤怒的地方，如果我們能夠達到這樣一個地步，我們可以嘗試進行更有成效的對話，滿足人們的需求，對他們為什麼相信他們所相信的東西感到好奇，我認為我們會走得更遠，我認為我們的目標不應該是鼓勵人們不要有信仰。

I don't think faith is a bad thing.

我不認為信仰是件壞事。

I don't think believing in something that might not be true is necessarily a bad thing.

我並不認為相信可能不真實的東西一定是壞事。

I think it's what follows.

我認為是以下內容。

This person talks about astrology or other kinds of beliefs.

這個人談論占星術或其他信仰。

It opens up the door.

它打開了大門。

Well, it does, but it's not my job to be the faith police.

的確如此，但我的工作不是當信仰警察。

You know, I'm not here to tell people don't have faith.

你知道，我不是來告訴人們不要有信仰。

It's when it becomes a bad behavior or a behavior that hurts other people, that's when I take issue.

當這種行為成為一種不良行為或傷害他人的行為時，我才會提出異議。

I'm sure faith can be a very kind of driving force in a person's life, can bring them a lot of happiness and peace and joy.

我相信，信仰可以成為一個人生命中非常重要的動力，可以給他們帶來很多幸福、安寧和快樂。

For me, I don't feel like I need faith in a god in order to find those things, but that's me personally, and I can't assume that for other people.

對我來說，我不覺得我需要信仰神才能找到這些東西，但這是我個人的想法，我不能假設其他人也是這樣。

It's funny because I really do believe in the golden rule.

這很有趣，因為我真的相信金科玉律。

Thank you, Jesus, even though Jesus was not the one to come up with it, and it existed long before Jesus did.

謝謝你，耶穌，儘管這不是耶穌想出來的，而且早在耶穌之前它就存在了。

Jesus said, treat others as you want to be treated, and I agree with that, and I would actually take it a step further, treat others as they want to be treated, because we're not all the same, and we all have different boundaries, and so I think it's really important to consider the other person rather than just yourself and what you think and what you feel, because it just boils down to how do I want to be treated?

耶穌說，對待別人就像你希望別人對待你一樣，我同意這一點，實際上我還想更進一步，對待別人就像他們希望別人對待他們一樣，因為我們並不都是一樣的，我們都有不同的底線，所以我認為考慮他人而不僅僅是考慮自己，考慮自己的想法和感受真的很重要，因為歸根結底，我希望別人如何對待我？

Do I want people to respect my position as a non-believer?

我希望人們尊重我作為非信徒的立場嗎？

Do I want Christians to treat me with kindness and empathy and compassion, even though I don't believe in their religion?

我是否希望基督徒以仁慈、同情和憐憫的態度對待我，即使我不信仰他們的宗教？

And if so, well, then I have to show them that same respect.

如果是這樣，那我也要對他們表示同樣的尊重。

I really do just want to make a positive difference and to encourage people to more critically about what they believe so they can protect themselves from the harm that comes from, you know, accepting beliefs that aren't true and the harm that comes to them and to others through their behaviors because of those beliefs.