It's great to have you here, Senator.

參議員，很高興您能來。

I know you have had a very busy day, but I just I do want to know your reaction when you heard what Donald Trump said on stage in Chicago today, questioning Vice President

我知道您今天很忙，但我只是想知道，當您聽到唐納德-特朗普今天在芝加哥的舞臺上質疑副總統時，您有什麼反應？

Harris's heritage.

哈里斯的遺產

Well, Caitlin, my first reaction was, you know, this is the reaction of a desperate and scared old man.

凱特琳，我的第一反應是 這是一個絕望又害怕的老人的反應

It's very obvious to me watching him and just what I've seen over the last week while she's been, you know, across the country just kicking his butt, that he's afraid.

我看他的表現，以及上週她在全國各地踢他的屁股時 我所看到的一切都很明顯，他害怕了。

He's probably afraid to debate her.

他可能害怕和她辯論。

He's certainly afraid to lose an election to her in November, and he's afraid about his own future.

他當然害怕在 11 月的選舉中輸給她，也害怕自己的未來。

So I'm not surprised to see it.

所以，我對此並不感到驚訝。

And I understand, you know, what he's up against.

我理解他的處境。

I mean, he's up against an experienced prosecutor, somebody who served as a D.A. and an attorney general in the Senate and now the vice president very successfully.

我的意思是，他的對手是一個經驗豐富的檢察官，一個在參議院擔任過地方檢察官和總檢察長的人，現在又非常成功地擔任了副總統。

You put Kamala Harris's record up to Donald Trump and there's no comparison.

你把卡馬拉-哈里斯的記錄與唐納德-特朗普相比，根本沒有可比性。

And the contrast is just is can't be more significant.

這種反差是再明顯不過了。

So you think this is just a sign that that he's essentially spooked by by her momentum and what we've seen over the last week and a half since she's been at the top of the ticket?

所以你認為這只是一個跡象，表明他基本上被她的勢頭和過去一週半以來她在選票上的優勢嚇到了？

Yeah, it's probably that.

是的，可能就是這樣。

I mean, I think it is.

我的意思是，我認為是這樣。

It's that.

就是這樣。

I mean, she's been across the country.

我的意思是，她去過全國各地。

She's got great momentum.

她的勢頭很猛。

She's a fantastic, historic candidate.

她是一位出色的、歷史性的候選人。

And who is he?

他是誰？

He's a convicted felon.

他是一個被定罪的重罪犯。

He's got a sentencing hearing, I think, in September.

我想，他將在九月份接受宣判。

He's been indicted for other felonies.

他還因其他重罪被起訴。

She's going to take this country forward.

她將帶領這個國家前進。

Donald Trump wants to drag us back to his prior administration, which was a bad deal for Americans.

唐納德-特朗普想把我們拉回到他之前的政府，那對美國人來說是一筆糟糕的交易。

So I think it's pretty obvious what's going on here.

是以，我認為這裡發生的事情顯而易見。

Is it clear to you that this was a racist attack by former President Donald Trump?

你是否清楚這是前總統唐納德-特朗普的一次種族主義攻擊？

Yeah.

是啊

I mean, it's overtly racist, yeah.

我的意思是，這是公開的種族主義，是的。

And do you expect to see more of that over the next 97 days until the election?

在選舉前的 97 天裡，你是否希望看到更多這樣的情況？

Donald Trump has shown the American people who he is.

唐納德-特朗普向美國人民展示了他的真面目。

He's been doing this now for a decade.

他這樣做已經有十年了。

If you're paying attention, before that, he was doing it before he was on the national stage as well.

如果你有留意，在此之前，他在登上國家舞臺之前也是這樣做的。

So of course he's going to continue to do it.

所以他當然會繼續這麼做。

That's all he can do.

他能做的只有這些。

This is all he has in his playbook.

這就是他的劇本。

And to be honest, it's sad.

老實說，這很可悲。

I mean, it's really sad to watch.

我是說，看了真讓人難過。

I think the good news for the American people is Kamala Harris is going to beat him in a debate and is going to beat him on November 5th and is going to be our next president.

我認為，對美國人民來說，好消息是卡馬拉-哈里斯將在辯論中擊敗他，並將在 11 月 5 日擊敗他，成為我們的下一任總統。

That's the good news for the American people.

這對美國人民來說是個好消息。

How do you think the Harris campaign should handle something like what we saw today?

您認為哈里斯競選團隊應該如何處理類似今天的事件？

Well, I think they should call him out on what he said.

好吧，我覺得他們應該把他的話說出來。

I mean, I've never seen a president or former president or a United States senator say anything like this.

我是說，我從未見過一位總統、前總統或美國參議員說過這樣的話。

And it is, we've seen a lot of sad days for our country when Donald Trump was president and while he's been a candidate, this is another one.

在唐納德-特朗普（Donald Trump）擔任總統和候選人期間，我們看到了很多令國家悲傷的日子，而這是另一個。

And I think the American people need to listen to what he says.

我認為美國人民需要聽聽他怎麼說。

The line of defense we're seeing tonight from J.D. Vance, his running mate, is that Trump was brave enough to go in there and take questions from black reporters at a conference.

我們今晚從他的競選搭檔J.D. Vance那裡看到的辯護理由是，特朗普敢於在會議上接受黑人記者的提問。

And he called Vice President Harris a coward.

他還稱哈里斯副總統為懦夫。

What's your response to that?

你對此有何迴應？

Kamala Harris has been across the country, you know, for the last week, you know, meeting with the American people.

卡馬拉-哈里斯（Kamala Harris）上週一直在全國各地與美國人民會面。

She's available, accessible.

她隨時可用，平易近人。

Where's Donald Trump?

唐納德-特朗普在哪裡？

I mean, he spends, you know, I don't know how long that interview lasts.

我的意思是，他花了，你知道， 我不知道多久的採訪持續。

My understanding was they had to get him off the stage because his campaign was afraid of the next horrible thing that he was going to say.

我的理解是，他們不得不讓他下臺，因為他的競選團隊害怕他接下來會說什麼可怕的話。

So that ended pretty quickly.

所以很快就結束了。

And Kamala Harris is the candidate of the future for this country.

卡馬拉-哈里斯是這個國家未來的候選人。

She wants to bring down the cost of prescription drugs, make child care affordable, reduce the cost of health care for the American people.

她希望降低處方藥的成本，讓人們能夠負擔得起兒童保育，降低美國人民的醫療成本。

What does Donald Trump want to do?

唐納德-特朗普想做什麼？

I mean, he made it pretty clear he wants more tax cuts for billionaires and the biggest corporations.

我的意思是，他說得很清楚，他希望為億萬富翁和最大的公司減稅。

If he was president again, he would weaken our alliances and he wants to take away fundamental rights for women, especially, especially women.

如果他再次擔任總統，他會削弱我們的聯盟，他想剝奪婦女的基本權利，尤其是婦女的基本權利。

So I'm not surprised with what he what he said.

所以我對他說的話並不感到驚訝。

But the consequences of four more years of Donald Trump is, you know, more loss of reproductive rights, including things like birth control and IVF.

但唐納德-特朗普（Donald Trump）再執政四年的後果就是，你知道的，更多的人失去了生育權，包括節育和試管嬰兒等。

Caitlin, I've got two daughters and a granddaughter, and I really worry about the future of this country with Donald Trump continuing to have any sort of power.

凱特琳，我有兩個女兒和一個孫女，如果唐納德-特朗普繼續掌權，我真的很擔心這個國家的未來。

Now, that's not going to happen because Kamala Harris is a great candidate.

現在，這種情況不會發生，因為卡馬拉-哈里斯是一位出色的候選人。

She's a great leader.

她是一位偉大的領導者。

She's going to be the future president of the United States.

她將成為未來的美國總統。

Well, and of course, Senator, you're under consideration to be potentially her vice presidential pick.

當然，參議員先生，您有可能成為她的副總統人選。

And you were on that short list.

而你就在那份候選名單上。

We understand that your team has received vetting materials as part of this process.

我們瞭解到，貴團隊已收到審查材料，這是審查過程的一部分。

How far have your conversations gone with the Harris team for this?

你們與哈里斯團隊就此進行了多長時間的對話？

Well, Caitlin, I'm not going to comment on that.

凱特琳，我不打算對此發表評論。

And, you know, we're not going to get into that.

而且，你知道，我們不打算討論這個問題。

You know, especially today.

你知道，尤其是今天。

You know, this is not about me.

你知道，這與我無關。

You know, this is about Donald Trump and what a sad figure he has become, sad and desperate.

你知道，這是關於唐納德-特朗普的，他已經變成了一個多麼可悲的人物，可悲而絕望。

And Caitlin, we know guys like this.

凱特琳 我們認識這樣的人

I mean, I've seen him before and, you know, just, you know, put him in the in the category of a desperate convicted felon who is lashing out.

我的意思是，我以前見過他，你知道，只是，你知道，把他放在一個絕望的被定罪的重罪犯的類別，誰是抨擊。

Do you believe that you'd be able to help make that argument that the one that you just made here on a broader national stage?

你是否認為，你能夠在更廣闊的國家舞臺上幫助提出你剛才提出的論點？

Should you be her selection?

她會選擇你嗎？

Well, I mean, I'm happy to talk about, you know, Donald Trump and Kamala Harris all day.

好吧，我的意思是，我很樂意談論，你知道，唐納德-特朗普和卡馬拉-哈里斯一整天。

I mean, it's it's a very easy thing to talk about.

我的意思是，這是一件很容易談論的事情。

It's probably the easiest topic I've dealt with while in the United States Senate, because the contrast is just so clear and I think it's clear to the American people as well.

這可能是我在美國參議院期間最容易處理的話題，因為對比是如此明顯，我想美國人民也很清楚。

Senator Mark Kelly, thank you for joining us tonight on this.

馬克-凱利參議員，感謝您今晚參與我們的討論。

Thank you for having me on, Caitlin.

謝謝你邀請我，凱特琳。

On your reaction here in studio now, I'm joined by former New York City Mayor Bill de Blasio and CNN political commentator and Spectrum News host Errol Lewis joins me.

現在在演播室裡，紐約市前市長比爾-德布拉西奧（Bill de Blasio）和CNN政治評論員、光譜新聞（Spectrum News）主持人埃羅爾-劉易斯（Errol Lewis）將和我一起討論您的反應。

I mean, I'll start with you, Mr. Mayor, just on the political lens of how how Vice President

我的意思是，市長先生，我先從您的政治視角說起，副總統是如何

Harris handled this tonight.

哈里斯今晚處理了這件事。

What did you make of what she said about this?

你怎麼看她說的這些話？

I think she handled it right.

我認為她處理得很好。

I mean, look, first of all, when your opponent does something so outrageous, so inappropriate, so obviously overtly an appeal to race in the worst sense, just let it be.

我的意思是，你看，首先，當你的對手做了如此離譜、如此不恰當、如此明顯地從最壞的意義上訴諸種族的事情時，就順其自然吧。

I think she showed sobriety, clarity, a vision of a better America and let him sort of stew in his own juices, as it were.

我認為，她表現出了清醒、明朗和對美好美國的憧憬，讓他沉浸在自己的果汁中。

I do have to say Mark Kelly's tagline there, the way he summarized it, a desperate, convicted felon who's lashing out.

我不得不說馬克-凱利的標語，他總結的方式，一個絕望的，被定罪的重罪犯正在抨擊。

I mean, I think that's a beautiful, powerful summary and kind of points to the desperation we're clearly seeing in Trump world right now.

我的意思是，我認為這是一個漂亮而有力的總結，也點出了我們現在在特朗普的世界裡明顯看到的絕望。

Something's gone off the rails.

有什麼東西脫軌了。

They just were not ready for a reasonably popular candidate.

他們只是還沒有準備好迎接一位相當受歡迎的候選人。

They were used to Joe Biden, who unfortunately had fallen into unpopularity.

他們已經習慣了喬-拜登，但不幸的是，拜登已經不受歡迎了。

They originally ran against Hillary Clinton, who unfortunately was dealing with a lot of challenges.

他們最初的競選對手是希拉里-克林頓，不幸的是，後者當時正面臨許多挑戰。

Here's a brand new day and they don't know what to do.

這是嶄新的一天，他們卻不知道該做些什麼。

Errol, just watching that today, I think there was a moment where all newsrooms were kind of glued to the screen.

埃羅爾，今天剛看完，我覺得有那麼一瞬間，所有的新聞編輯室都盯著螢幕。

What did you make of that?

你怎麼看？

It was like a flashback to 2015.

彷彿回到了 2015 年。

This is Donald Trump pulling out some of the old tricks from when he first came onto the national scene, where he would say something completely outrageous, bursting the norms, going outside the normal guardrails of political discussion, and that became the story.

唐納德-特朗普（Donald Trump）又使出了他剛登上國家舞臺時的一些老把戲，他會說一些完全離譜的話，打破常規，跳出政治討論的常規軌道，這就成了故事。

And that's what I think is going on here.

我認為這就是問題所在。

Whatever else he is, Donald Trump is not in the news cycle.

不管他是什麼人，唐納德-特朗普都不在新聞週期中。

And if he hadn't said something crazy and outrageous today, we wouldn't be talking about him right now.

如果他今天沒有說一些瘋狂離譜的話，我們現在也不會談論他。

We know that there are, what, 97 days until the election.

我們知道，距離選舉還有 97 天。

If you put in early voting, which starts in Arizona, by the way, in 70 days, we're at the stage where every single news cycle counts and you can't win the news cycle if you're not in the news cycle.

順便提一下，亞利桑那州的提前投票在70天后開始，我們正處於每一個新聞週期都很重要的階段，如果你不在新聞週期中，你就無法贏得新聞週期。

So I read this as Donald Trump just saying anything to try and get himself back into play because the last week has been horrific for him.

是以，我認為唐納德-特朗普只是在說任何話，試圖讓自己重新發揮作用，因為過去一週對他來說太可怕了。

All of the excitement, hundreds of thousands of people in these Zoom calls, $200 million raised for his opponent.

所有的興奮，數十萬人在這些變焦電話，2億美元籌集了他的對手。

He can't touch any of that.

他不能碰任何東西。

And all of what they did, which was a very successful Republican National Convention, is basically forgotten.

他們所做的一切，也就是非常成功的共和黨全國代表大會，基本上都被遺忘了。

It's yesterday's news.

這是昨天的新聞。

And so he's trying to get back into it, and he's doing it the way that he knows best, which is to say something inflammatory, absurd, crazy, nonfactual, and try and get back into the game.

是以，他正試圖重操舊業，用他最擅長的方式，也就是說些煽動性的、荒謬的、瘋狂的、不符合事實的言論，試圖重操舊業。

Look at what's at the Trump rally tonight that he had after this event that he flew to.

看看特朗普今晚的集會上有什麼，他在飛去參加這次活動之後，又參加了什麼集會。

It was a screen up, and it showed these headlines identifying Harris as Indian-American in headlines.

這是一個螢幕，它顯示了這些標題，在標題中將哈里斯標識為印度裔美國人。

I mean, she can be both, and she is, and she has talked about that.

我的意思是，她可以兼具這兩種身份，而且她確實做到了，她也談到過這一點。

And I think we've talked about that collectively when she made history by becoming vice president.

我想，當她成為副總統創造歷史時，我們已經集體討論過這個問題。

But what do you make of the fact of how they're leaning into this at a rally tonight?

但你怎麼看他們在今晚的集會上對此事的態度？

Well, first of all, to pick up on Errol's point, I think the worst thing in the world is happening to Donald Trump, you know, humanly, emotionally, which is he's being ignored.

首先，我想接著埃羅爾的話說，我認為唐納德-特朗普身上發生了世界上最糟糕的事情，你知道，從人性和情感上來說，就是他被忽視了。

This is the one thing that flummoxes him the most.

這是最讓他困惑的一件事。

And I think when you think about that kind of language, it's just obviously patently false to say, you know, she was not being authentically black.

我認為，當你思考這種語言時，說她不是道地的黑人顯然是錯誤的。

I mean, that's stunning in a campaign that just a week or two ago was saying they actually hoped to win black voters, particularly black males, over to their cause.

我的意思是，就在一兩週前，競選團隊還在說，他們希望贏得黑人選民，尤其是黑人男性的支持，這實在令人震驚。

Well-

好

And his numbers had been going up.

他的數據一直在上升。

Yeah, and his numbers-

是啊，他的號碼

Minority groups.

少數群體。

Unfortunately.

不幸的是

And I think when we saw the challenges Joe Biden was facing, we did see some drift in the black and Latino community.

我認為，當我們看到喬-拜登所面臨的挑戰時，我們確實看到了黑人和拉丁裔社區的一些動向。

That was an area of real concern.

這是一個真正令人擔憂的領域。

But if you had that hope, why on earth would you attack an authentically black woman and challenge her blackness?

但是，如果你抱有這種希望，你究竟為什麼要攻擊一個真正的黑人女性，挑戰她的黑人身份？

That just says to the community that you're not only out of touch, you're absolutely insensitive and uncaring about the community.

這隻能說明，你們不僅與社區脫節，而且對社區麻木不仁、漠不關心。

He's like driving his own nail into his own heart here.

他就像把自己的釘子釘進了自己的心臟。

It makes no sense.

這毫無意義。

He also-

他還

And it's worth pointing out in her book, she talks about how her Indian American mother knew that she was raising two black girls.

值得指出的是，在她的書中，她談到了她的印度裔美國母親是如何知道她在撫養兩個黑人女孩的。

I mean, this is not something that's never come up before.

我的意思是，這不是以前從未出現過的事情。

So I'm not sure where they expect this to go.

所以，我不知道他們會把事情搞成什麼樣。

Anybody who actually looked at this has heard from her for years now that she is a black candidate.

任何真正關注此事的人，多年來都聽說過她是一位黑人候選人。

She is a black woman.

她是一位黑人女性。

She also has Indian American heritage.

她還有美國印第安人的血統。

No big deal.

沒什麼大不了的。