We demand divestment. We will not be moved unless by force.

我們要求撤資。除非使用武力，否則我們不會被打動。

This is a movement, an anti-war movement. My source tonight, Academy Award winning filmmaker Michael Moore, who has documented nationwide protests and has also been a part of them himself. Michael, it's great to have you back on the show. I just wonder, as we've been covering this, and you really saw it hit a high point today at universities all across the United States from coast to coast, how do you think that these schools should be approaching these protests?

這是一場運動，一場反戰運動。今晚我的消息來源是奧斯卡獲獎電影製片人邁克爾-摩爾 他記錄了全國範圍內的抗議活動 他自己也是其中一員邁克爾，很高興你能回到節目中來。我只是想知道，我們一直在報道這件事，你也看到今天在全美各大學從海岸到海岸都掀起了高潮，你認為這些學校應該如何對待這些抗議活動？

In the opposite way that most of them are doing it. I mean, what's great about democracy and free speech, freedom of assembly, freedom of not having a state religion, this is what everyone, you know, those who came here, the white people who came here wanting to escape that. And so the lesson teaching the children of today, in this case Gen Z, that we will tase you, we will beat you, we will club you. None of them are committing any acts of violence.

與大多數人的做法恰恰相反。我的意思是，民主和言論自由、集會自由、沒有國教的自由的偉大之處，正是每個人，你知道，那些來到這裡的人，那些來到這裡想要逃避這些的白人。是以，我們給今天的孩子們（這裡指的是 Z 世代）上的課是：我們會電擊你，我們會毆打你，我們會用棍棒打你。他們中沒有人實施任何暴力行為。

None of them are destroying the university. The worst maybe in some people's minds they're doing is holding signs that say free Palestine. Or from the river to the sea. This is one that is constantly being thrown out there. Oh, look at this. This sign is frightening all the students from the river to the sea. And it's like, well, why don't you talk to them? Because actually, first of all, large numbers of these students are Jewish students who are with the Palestinian students who together are forming these encampments. I don't know if that's been covered very much. I saw this one instance where the Palestinian students inviting the Jewish students into the encampment. And then the next day, they had a little nighttime entertainment in the encampment. And the Palestinian students decided to do a Jewish folk dance for their fellow protesters who are Jewish students.

他們都沒有破壞大學。也許在某些人的心目中，他們所做的最糟糕的事情就是舉著寫有 "自由的巴勒斯坦 "的牌子。或從河到海。這是一個不斷被拋出的標語。哦，看看這個。這個標語嚇壞了從河到海的所有學生。你為什麼不跟他們談談呢？因為實際上，首先，這些學生中有很多是猶太學生，他們和巴勒斯坦學生一起組成了這些營地。我不知道這一點是否被報道過。有一次，我看到巴勒斯坦學生邀請猶太學生進入營地。第二天，他們在營地裡舉行了一個小型夜間娛樂活動。巴勒斯坦學生決定為身為猶太學生的抗議者們跳一支猶太民族舞。

Yeah, but can I ask you that? Because there are some people definitely sitting at home right now watching this who say, OK, but I've also heard Jewish students on air here at

是的，但我能問你這個問題嗎？因為現在坐在家裡看電視的人肯定會說："好吧，但我也聽到過猶太學生在這裡的直播。

CNN and in other interviews saying, well, I'm hearing anti-Semitic rhetoric at this.

CNN和其他採訪中說，我在這裡聽到了反猶太言論。

And it's not all just a kind of kumbaya thing. There are moments where Jewish students have said they felt harassed. They felt unsafe on campus going to going to class. I mean,

而且，這並不全是一種 "逢場作戲"。有些時候，猶太學生說他們感到被騷擾。他們覺得在校園裡上課不安全。我是說

I think that's the question of where is the line in? Yes, it's some schools like Yale where we've seen a Jewish student who wrote for CNN today saying he was sitting in with a pro-Palestinian protester. But where's the line between protesting and free speech, but also Jewish students feeling safe going to class?

我認為這是一個界限在哪裡的問題？是的，在一些學校，比如耶魯大學，我們看到一名猶太學生今天為CNN撰文，說他和一名支持巴勒斯坦的抗議者坐在一起。但是，在抗議和言論自由之間，以及在猶太學生感到安全地去上課之間，界線在哪裡？

Right. Well, first of all, the protesters who are there supporting the Palestinian people and their right to be free, I would guess probably 98 percent of them are not saying anything that's anti-Semitic because they don't believe in anti-Semitism, in part because the Palestinian people are Semites. So to be anti-Semitic would be if you if you speak against Jewish people. And yes, anti-Semitism is, I think, one of the most horrific things that the way people behave. Jews have been suffering as victims of this for 5000 plus years. And and everybody needs to stand up against that and fight it and speak against it. But what's going on? And I noticed that there was a report thing I read in the L.A.

是的。首先，那些支持巴勒斯坦人民及其自由權利的抗議者，我猜他們中的98%都不會說反猶太的話，因為他們不相信反猶太，部分原因是巴勒斯坦人民是閃米特人。是以，如果你說猶太人的壞話，那就是反猶太。是的，我認為反猶主義是人們行為方式中最可怕的一種。五千多年來，猶太人一直深受其害。每個人都需要站出來反對這種行為，與之鬥爭，發表反對言論。但到底發生了什麼？我注意到，我在《洛杉磯時報》上讀到了一篇報道。

Times today and also on ABC News where, you know, they were interviewing students and they were being harassed and the Hamas flags are flying. And ABC and the L.A. Times did their own investigation, trying to find at these college demonstrations one Hamas flag that that the protesters were carrying. And there were none. This is all a made up thing, just like that. Like I said, the river to the sea. I just I wanted to just read this is from the charter of the Likud party. That's the right wing party that Netanyahu is the head of. Nineteen seventy seven. I'm reading direct quote from the charter of the Likud right wing

今天，《泰晤士報》和美國廣播公司（ABC）新聞都採訪了學生，他們受到騷擾，哈馬斯旗幟飄揚。美國廣播公司和《洛杉磯時報》做了自己的調查，試圖在這些大學示威活動中找到示威者攜帶的一面哈馬斯旗幟。但沒有一面。這一切都是編造出來的，就像這樣。就像我說的，從河到海。我只想讀一下利庫德集團的黨章。這是內塔尼亞胡上司的右翼政黨。1977年我讀的是利庫德集團右翼黨章的直接引文

Israeli party. And it says the following. The right of the Jewish people to the land of Israel is eternal and indisputable between the sea and the Jordan. There will only be Israeli sovereignty. That's their own charter, the Likud party. That's where this river to the sea, because the real victims in these last decades have been the Palestinian people not being able to have their freedom, not being able to live in a democracy, not having their rights. Yeah. And why so many Jewish students are joining with Palestinian students, because they know what's wrong, too. That's why the majority, I think, of Israelis certainly want Netanyahu out of there. Your own polls have shown that. Well, I would ask.

以色列黨。其內容如下猶太人民對以色列土地的權利是永恆的，在大海和約旦河之間是無可爭辯的。只有以色列擁有主權。這是利庫德集團自己的憲章這就是河流入海的地方，因為在過去的幾十年裡，真正的受害者是巴勒斯坦人民，他們無法獲得自由，無法生活在民主社會中，無法享有自己的權利。是啊。為什麼有這麼多猶太學生加入巴勒斯坦學生的行列，因為他們也知道錯在哪裡。這就是為什麼我認為大多數以色列人 都希望內塔尼亞胡下臺。你們自己的民意調查也顯示了這一點。我想問

And I think I'm glad you brought up polls. And one, I should say that it is happening on some campuses. We saw the one student who was barred from campus after he said in a video in January that all Zionists should be killed or that Zionists should be killed. That was something that was spread around. And I understand, obviously, it's complicated and schools clearly are grappling with how to handle this. Yeah. And he has a knucklehead and he's now apologized for it. I've been to Giant Stadium where I can't tell you how many times I've had to listen to white people shouting negative, using negative words about black players, using those epithets. Does that mean all players are one thing or another or white people are?

我很高興你提到了民意調查。其一，我想說的是，這種情況正在一些校園裡發生。我們看到，一名學生在一月份的一段視頻中說，所有猶太復國主義者都應該被殺死，或者猶太復國主義者應該被殺死，之後他被禁止進入校園。這件事被四處傳播。我明白，很明顯，這很複雜，學校顯然正在努力解決如何處理這個問題。是啊他是個笨蛋 現在他已經為此道歉了我去過巨人體育館，在那裡我不知道聽了多少次白人大喊大叫，對黑人球員使用負面詞彙，使用這些綽號。這是否意味著所有球員或白人都是這樣或那樣？

Well, we know there's enough of them. Bad stuff is said in this country constantly because we have had a historic problem with bigotry, with racism, with all kinds of bad things said about minority groups and including and especially Jews. And that is not allowed. And all the organizers of all these demonstrations, I've talked to a lot of them. They've been in touch with me. And I have to tell you, they are the salt of the earth. They are kind and generous.

好吧，我們知道他們已經夠多了。在這個國家，壞話不斷，因為我們在歷史上就有偏執、種族主義的問題，對少數群體，包括尤其是猶太人，說過各種各樣的壞話。這是不允許的。所有這些示威活動的組織者，我都和他們中的很多人談過。他們一直和我保持聯繫。我必須告訴你們，他們是地球上的鹽。他們善良而慷慨。

They want to work with Jews. They want to live in peace. They do not support Hamas on October 7th.

他們希望與猶太人合作。他們希望和平共處。10 月 7 日，他們不支持哈馬斯。

Exactly. I mean, capturing the nuance here and the complex nature of this is one thing. But you brought up a poll about Israel's leadership, but you're wearing a Michigan hat right now.

沒錯我的意思是，抓住其中的細微差別和複雜本質是一回事。但你提到了關於以色列領導層的民意調查，但你現在戴著密歇根州的帽子。

One, I won't hold you against that because I'm an Alabama fan, as you know. But two, there's a CNN poll that showed today 81 percent of voters who are under the age of 35 disapprove of how President Biden has been handling this war. I mean, we're seeing it on campuses. There is a question of what we're going to see in November. I wonder what you think he should be doing differently to change those numbers. Thank you for asking that question, Caitlin. This is why I was so when I got the call to ask you if I'd like to come on tonight. I really was coming on.

第一，我不會反對你 因為我是阿拉巴馬州的球迷，你知道的但其二 CNN的一項民調顯示 今天有81%的35歲以下選民 不贊成拜登總統處理這場戰爭的方式我的意思是，我們在校園裡看到了這一點。問題是我們在11月會看到什麼。我想知道你認為他應該採取什麼不同的做法來改變這些數字。謝謝你的提問，凱特琳。這就是為什麼當我接到電話，問你我今晚是否願意上臺的時候，我感到非常高興。我真的要上節目了

I know we're speaking to millions of people, but I'd like to speak to one particular individual, and that is President Biden. I wanted to say this on your show tonight, that his chance of not being reelected, I think at this point is so great because of those numbers, because he's losing the youth vote. He's lost the Arab American vote in Michigan.

我知道我們是在對數百萬人說話，但我想對一個特別的人說話，那就是拜登總統。我想在你們今晚的節目中說的是，我認為目前他無法連任的可能性非常大，因為這些數字，因為他正在失去年輕人的選票，因為他在密歇根州失去了阿拉伯裔美國人的選票。他在密歇根失去了阿拉伯裔美國人的選票。

So even Michelle Goldberg in a column in the New York Times last month said that you lose Michigan, you lose the election. I am fighting to make sure that doesn't happen. I am trying to save

是以，就連米歇爾-戈德堡（Michelle Goldberg）上個月在《紐約時報》的專欄中也說，輸掉密歇根，就輸掉了大選。我正在努力確保這種情況不會發生。我正在努力挽救

Joe Biden because as soon as he does the right thing, as soon as he, and if you're listening, watching Mr. Biden, fellow Catholic, although some will say recovering in my case, but still, we are Catholics and the Pope is right on this. We need an immediate ceasefire. It is wrong.

喬-拜登，因為只要他做了正確的事情，只要他，如果你在聽，在看拜登先生，天主教同胞，雖然有些人會說在我的情況下恢復，但我們仍然是天主教徒，教皇在這個問題上是正確的。我們需要立即停火。這是錯誤的。

A mass slaughter of innocence, of children, of women, of the elderly is a sin. It is absolutely against what we believe in. I know you know that too. I know that's why you're not really happy with what Netanyahu has done here. And you can stop the killing tonight. You pull the plug, you close the bank, you shut it down. It doesn't mean we're not going to support Israel, protect Israel. Absolutely. All of that. But not what's going on here. It is a mass slaughter.

大規模屠殺無辜、兒童、婦女和老人是一種罪惡。這絕對違背了我們的信仰。我知道你們也知道這一點。我知道這就是為什麼你們對內塔尼亞胡的所作所為並不滿意。今晚你們可以停止殺戮。你可以拔掉插頭，關閉銀行，把它關掉。這並不意味著我們不會支持以色列 保護以色列當然所有這些但這裡發生的事不一樣這是一場大屠殺

It is a, it's so, it's madness, President Biden, and you know this, and I speak to you as a fellow seminarian to the Catholic priesthood. That's me. That this is wrong. This is not what we believe in.

拜登總統，這太瘋狂了，你知道的，我是作為天主教神職人員的同伴向你說的。這就是我這是錯的這不是我們的信仰

And I think, you know, after World War II, we're all, we're all in the shadow of the Holocaust.

我認為，二戰之後，我們都處於大屠殺的陰影之下。

We are all sons and daughters of that era. And what did we want to do? We wanted to make sure that no Jew would ever have to suffer again or be killed again. And so everybody got behind the idea that they should have this home. But the home, the land wasn't taken from the Nazis, the Germans. We didn't give them Bavaria. We took land from people, people who, not a single

我們都是那個時代的兒女。我們想要做什麼？我們想確保沒有猶太人再遭受苦難或被殺害。是以，每個人都支持他們應該擁有這個家園的想法。但家園和土地並不是從納粹和德國人手中奪來的我們沒有給他們巴伐利亞。我們從人們手中奪走了土地，而這些人，沒有一個人

Palestinian, built an oven at Auschwitz. Not a single Palestinian historically ran the Spanish

巴勒斯坦人在奧斯威辛集中營建造了一座焚屍爐。歷史上沒有一個巴勒斯坦人管理過西班牙

Inquisition. Not a single Palestinian turned away boatloads of German Jewish refugees that tried to dock in Boston, New York, Miami, prohibited, tried to escape before they were all exterminated.

宗教裁判所。沒有一個巴勒斯坦人拒絕過一船船試圖在波士頓、紐約、邁阿密停靠的德國猶太難民，禁止他們在被全部滅絕之前試圖逃跑。

And we turned them away. We, the United States. And it's, it's, I'm just saying, it's your right to be, as you say, you're, you're, you care and you love the Jewish people, obviously, yes. But not this. This is, this is mass extermination. When you carpet bomb a civilian population, and by those who are watching this, that's your tax dollars and my tax dollars.

而我們卻把他們拒之門外。我們，美國。我只是說，正如你所說的，你關心和熱愛猶太人，這是你的權利。但不是這樣。這是，這是大規模滅絕。當你對平民進行地毯式轟炸時，對於那些正在收看電視的人來說，這是你和我的納稅錢。

That means we are funding this. We are responsible. And we have to, and so, but I'm sorry,

這意味著我們要為其提供資金。我們有責任我們必須這麼做，但我很抱歉、

Caitlin, I just want to make this, because people, Democrats are going, oh, don't be saying this. We got to win the election. But we're going to lose the election. We're going to lose Michigan if we don't turn this around. If President Biden doesn't turn this around, that is going to do more to put

凱特琳，我只想說一句，因為民主黨人會說，哦，別這麼說。我們必須贏得大選但我們會輸掉選舉。如果我們不扭轉局面，我們就會失去密歇根州。如果拜登總統不能扭轉局面，這將會使

Trump back in the White House. And I refuse to have Donald Trump back in the White House. So what are we all going to do? How are we going to fix this? There's a simple way right now to try to bring back some of the young people. And I know we're out of time. Thank you for letting me say that and speak directly to the President, you know, who I hope is watching. You know, we love, we love having you on. We'll have you back. Michael Moore, thank you for that.

特朗普重回白宮。我拒絕讓唐納德-特朗普重返白宮。那麼，我們該怎麼辦？我們該如何解決這個問題？現在有一個簡單的辦法，可以讓一些年輕人回來。我知道我們沒時間了。謝謝你讓我說這些話，並直接對總統說，你知道，我希望他能看到。你知道，我們喜歡，我們喜歡有你的節目。我們會再邀請你的。邁克爾-摩爾，謝謝你。