Now the other two still face these charges so we can't go into too many details for legal reasons but I thought I'd get an expert on to tell us exactly what this case is all about.

現在，另外兩人仍面臨這些指控，是以出於法律原因，我們不能透露太多細節，但我想請一位專家來告訴我們這個案子到底是怎麼回事。

Obviously the implication is that the Royal Marine, shall we say, was in a state of some distress but we mustn't go there because we don't know exactly what's happening. But let's talk to Professor of Cyber Security Kevin Curran. Thank you for joining us Kevin.

很明顯，這意味著皇家海軍陸戰隊，我們可以說，正處於某種危難之中，但我們絕不能去那裡，因為我們不知道到底發生了什麼。讓我們來聽聽網絡安全教授凱文-庫蘭（Kevin Curran）的看法。謝謝你加入我們，凱文。

Good evening Kevin.

晚上好，凱文。

Yeah, if you could just, as I say, we can't go into too many details. Very sad death of this guy Matthew Trickett. He was 37, he was a Home Office Immigration Enforcement Officer and alongside two other colleagues, I think they were Border Force officers, Chai Lueng Wai, he was 38 from

是的，如果你能，正如我所說， 我們不能去太多的細節。馬修-特里克特（Matthew Trickett）的死非常令人悲痛。他 37 歲，是內政部移民執法官員，與另外兩名同事（我想他們是邊防軍官員）一起工作。

Staines in Surrey and Chung Biu Yen from Dawson in East London. All three of them are charged so for their sake we have to be careful. But just tell us what this case is all about if you could Kevin.

薩里郡的 Staines 和東倫敦道森的 Chung Biu Yen。他們三個都被起訴了，所以為了他們，我們必須小心。凱文，請你告訴我們這個案子是怎麼回事。

Yes, three men have been arrested under the National Security Act with assistance in the

是的，根據《國家安全法》逮捕了三名男子，他們協助了

Hong Kong Intelligence Service and foreign interference. And again that they've been accused of espionage really, providing information back to the Hong Kong authorities and have been carried it out since December of 2023 and May the 1st of this year really. So they're due up in court, well they were due up in court for the 24th which is in three days time. And of course the National

香港情報局和外國干涉。同樣，他們被指控從事間諜活動，向香港當局提供情報，並且從2023年12月到今年5月1日一直在進行。是以，他們將出庭受審，他們將在三天後的24號出庭受審。當然，國家

Security Act came into play last year in July actually and this is one of the first cases where we're seeing someone in high profile, you know, where they've tightened up the laws in the National

實際上，《安全法》是在去年 7 月生效的，而這是我們看到的第一批高知名度的案例之一，你知道，他們收緊了《國家安全法》中的法律。

Security Act. You know, we've always had the official Espionage Act as well which generally applies to public officials but now this applies to anyone who can be seen as aiding and abetting a foreign intelligence service. Is this a new offence? I mean, would in the past this have come under the auspices of treason? Exactly, but again what we're seeing here again is with the National Security Act again which is generally brought in for our eastern rivalries, you know, tightens up a lot of things again to do with sabotage and of course accessing sites and brings it out into the public domain more so again because people, especially now in the technological age, you know, people have access to a lot of systems who previously would have been, you know, behind MOD firewalls and whatever else and in place again but only have access to documents and cabinets again. But we're seeing a lot of documents can leak which are very sensitive to governments again and so the government brought in the National Security Act to cover this.

安全法》。要知道，我們一直都有《官方間諜法》，該法一般適用於公職人員，但現在該法適用於任何被視為協助和教唆外國情報機構的人。這是一項新的罪行嗎？我的意思是，在過去，這是否屬於叛國罪的範疇？沒錯，但我們在這裡再次看到的是《國家安全法》，該法通常是為我們的東方競爭而引入的，你知道，它再次收緊了許多與破壞有關的事情，當然還有訪問網站，並再次將其帶入公共領域，因為人們，特別是現在的技術時代，你知道，人們可以訪問許多系統，你知道，這些系統以前是在國防部防火牆和其他任何地方，但只能訪問文件和文件櫃。但我們看到很多文件

As a professor of cyber security, does Britain have a problem with cyber security?

作為一名網絡安全教授，英國在網絡安全方面存在問題嗎？

It's very difficult to protect all our systems, especially with again where we see China and

要保護我們所有的系統非常困難，尤其是在我們再次看到中國和

Russia of course being the two countries which do the most active hacking against us. When you have a country like China with so many people again and that they've dedicated so many people in again to their technical side again because again it's easier now to cause destruction in a foreign country, you know, just through attacking the computer systems as well and the infrastructure and critical infrastructure as well and of course it can be difficult to estimate how many people work for state-sponsored hacking groups because of course with traditional military means we can count the number of feet on the ground and the tanks and the planes and whatever else but when it comes to something technical like hacking again, it's very hard but we have a good idea about it. We know about the main threat groups as we say, these advanced persistent threat groups again like APT1 and APT41 and again so we know for sure that there's probably upwards of about 100,000 Chinese hackers who from morning to night that their mission is to infiltrate western systems. I in no way want to draw these three accused into this discussion because we don't know the details of that. The poor Matthew Trickett who is no longer with us, Cheung Bin Yuen and Chi

俄羅斯當然是對我們黑客攻擊最活躍的兩個國家。當你有一個像中國這樣的國家，又有這麼多人，他們又有這麼多人專門從事技術方面的工作，因為現在在外國造成破壞更容易了，你知道的、當然，要估計有多少人為國家支持的黑客組織工作可能很難，因為傳統的軍事手段，我們可以數出地面上有多少雙腳、坦克、飛機和其他什麼東西，但說到黑客這樣的技術性東西，就很難了，但我們對此有一個很好的概念。我們知道主要的威脅組織，如 APT1 和 APT41 等高級持續威脅組織，是以我們可以肯定，可能有超過 10 萬名中國黑客從早到晚都在滲透西方系統

Duong Wai are all of course innocent until they may be proved guilty, they may not be so I'm not talking about them but in terms of you talk about hacking cyber security, now in the old days you know spying was done that you know Chinese agents would approach British agents and British officials and try and corrupt them and get information from them. Is that kind of process where China you know wants to find people who might help them, has that been made much easier by the internet, by social media, you know in other words all these men meeting in dark alleys no longer have to do it, they can do it electronically, is that sort of syndrome on the rise? Absolutely, they've got dedicated teams for social media again so there's nationalities I wouldn't touch if they approach me on social media because I'm just too suspicious about it that of course they have, it's an easy way, it's the new honey pots again that so many men especially fall for it again. So of course a lot of social media activity that they concentrate a lot on social media activity to try to fool people to try to you know work for you know anything again because it is so easy again you know men can be very foolish again. Yeah I know that Kevin,

Duong Wai當然都是無辜的，直到他們被證明有罪，他們可能沒有，所以我不是在談論他們，但就你談到的黑客攻擊網絡安全而言，在過去，你知道間諜活動是這樣做的，你知道中國特工會接近英國特工和英國官員，試圖腐蝕他們，從他們那裡獲取信息。換句話說，所有這些在暗巷中會面的人不再需要這樣做，他們可以通過電子手段來做，這種綜合症是否在增加？當然，他們又有了專門負責社交媒體的團隊，所以有些國家的人如果在社交媒體上接近我，我是不會碰他們的，因為我太懷疑他們了，這是一個簡單的方法，又是一個新的蜜罐，尤其是很多男人又上當了。

I'm well aware of that. Listen Kevin it's a bit difficult conversation but very good to have it with you, thank you very much for your time. Kevin Curran the excellent professor of cyber security after the sad death of Matthew Trickett who along with two other men was charged with assisting of spying for Hong Kong, in other words China and this is a rising problem.

我很清楚這一點。聽著，凱文，這是個有點困難的對話，但很高興能和你一起，非常感謝你抽出時間。在馬修-特里克特（Matthew Trickett）不幸身亡後，凱文-庫蘭（Kevin Curran）成為了一名出色的網絡安全教授。

you

你