You've been listening

to some of the reporting

just just airing just before you

and you obviously seeing everything

that's going on around you.

Tell me first,

what has been going through your head

and your heart since October 7th?

Well, since

October 7th,

everything has changed in some ways

and in other ways.

Everything is

my my worst fears are coming true.

I as you mentioned,

I fought in Gaza in 2014.

That war was also preceded by a horrific

terrorist attack,

just like we saw on October 7th.

Three Israeli teenagers

were kidnaped and murdered,

which led to a oh, don't worry

sorry story

which led which led to a horrific

which led to the firing of rockets.

A massive crackdown on Hamas

in the West Bank

and the firing of rockets and

then a ground invasion.

The the images that

everyone is seeing that I'm seeing

remind me very vividly of that fighting.

And frankly it's it's my worst fears

because many people colleagues

in the Israeli peace camp in the Israeli

anti-occupation camp

have been warning

for so many years

saying that

there is no military solution.

We can't just manage the conflict

and maintain a very, very brutal

military

regime of control over Palestinians.

That actually plays

into the hands of Hamas

and plays

into the hands

of these murderous terrorist groups.

And so all I've been doing since then

is trying to share my message, try

to share my experience,

and try to avoid making the same mistakes

that we made in 2014

when Hamas only got stronger

after we bombed them and killed thousands

and we struck them a decisive blow

where that's at least

what I thought at the time.

But I only saw afterwards

that my own government

strengthened Hamas.

You know,

it's pretty intense to hear you say that.

Look,

we know that

the majority of your country

right now is in favor of this war.

They might not be in favor

of the current government,

but they definitely believe

that somehow, somewhere

Hamas has to be defeated.

You're saying

it can't be done militarily.

Tell us.

I guess the first question

really is to you.

Are you out of step

with the majority of your country people

right now?

And are you able still to talk about,

you know, what you saw,

what you feel,

what you've learned, how you've changed,

Yeah.

Well, I'll add,

you know, I'm not a I'm not a pacifist.

I believe that Israel

has the responsibility to defend itself.

Against Hamas.

And, of course,

that includes military actions.

But I think that right now

in Israeli society,

there's a debate going on

as to

whether this war that we're fighting

should be against Hamas

or it should it be against

the Palestinian people.

And you have

members of this current government

who have said

since the horrific atrocities

that we saw in October,

on October 7th against Israeli civilians

and the kidnaping of Israeli

civilians who are still being held

they have made it clear

that they aren't differentiating

between civilians and and Hamas.

Even last night,

a senior member of the coalition

sorry, on Saturday night,

senior member of the coalition

of a member of the cabinet,

Bezalel Smotrich,

the finance minister

and the minister overseeing

the West Bank

and the Ministry of Defense said

that he doesn't

really see

a big difference

between the Palestinian Authority

and Hamas.

The Arabs are the same Arabs.

So there are many Israelis

who disagree with that.

And there are many Israelis

who are questioning the assumptions

and questioning

the lies that they've been told

for so many years.

And maybe it is a majority

who has believed the lies that

our government has told us.

But, you know, I

think that this is an opportunity for a

for partners

of mine in the Israeli peace camp.

I saw

many of my.

Yes,

I can hear you

Let me ask you another question, Ben.

Let me ask you another question.

Okay, Ben.

See, your line is dropped.

We're going to redial you

and we're going to bring you back.

We're going to bring you back

So standby and we'll bring you back.

I want to ask you again about the op ed,

the article

you wrote

for The New York Times

describing what it was like

you know,

in the deployment in 2014 and Gaza.

You wrote,

you know,

that some of your soldiers

were feeling doubts at that time.

And then you wrote your own thoughts

on a piece of paper and you wrote this.

I wrote that

some members of my team had been tallying

the number of soldiers killed

and discussing

whether this operation

was worth the losses.

I think it could be worth it.

I wrote

as long as we decisively eliminate

the threat.