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  • - Because A: it's not your land; B: you mentioned Jerusalem--

    首先 因為那不是你的領土 二來 你剛才提到耶路撒冷...

  • - Listen, you can't tell me that. Please don't say that.

    你不能這樣說...拜託,不要跟我這樣說...

  • When it comes to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, I think I'm mostly emotionally sad.

    每當提及以色列人和巴勒斯坦人之間爆發的衝突總是令我觸及傷感

  • I think it's not fair that, you know, a country that is peaceful be in a situation where we have to be threatened.

    我認為在一個和平的國家人們卻仍遭受到威脅 這是不合理的

  • Being an Arab girl living inside of the Israeli state, it's pretty hard for me to find exactly who I am.

    身為一名住在以色列的阿拉伯女子要認清自己的身分很不容易

  • We're the Palestinians.

    我們是巴勒斯坦人

  • We still live under occupation, so we have no power.

    巴勒斯坦仍舊活在以色列民族的掌控下

  • I believe that every person, Jew, Christian, Muslim, should be full equal citizens under Israeli sovereignty.

    我認為每一位信奉猶太教、基督教或伊斯蘭教的人都應在以色列的統治下而成為對等的公民

  • We need just to end this conflict between us.

    我們要結束兩國之間的對立

  • It's because we don't need the other generations to live the life that we live in.

    我們不要讓我們的下一代生活在當前的處境

  • If we continue to do what we did until now, it's probably going to stay, and we need to do something else.

    如果我們繼續僵持做同樣的事現況將會停滯不前,而我們必須做些什麼來改善這局面(我們在耶路撒冷找來幾位巴勒斯坦人及以色列人)(針對歷史上雙方民族、至今仍存在著的分歧進行討論)(藉此,他們是否能從中導出中立的觀點)

  • My name's Hannah Ziad. I'm 24 years old and I'm an Arabian YouTuber.

    我的名字是Hannah Ziad 24歲 我是來自阿拉伯的YouTube頻道經營者

  • My name is Dorit Saadon. I'm 25 years old and I'm a Jewish Israeli Zionist.

    我的名字是Dorit25歲 是猶太復國主義運動的一分子

  • My name is Bara'a Doh. I'm from Nablus, 25 years old, studied public relations and communications.

    我的名字是Bara'a來自納布盧斯 25歲 研讀公共關係暨傳播學

  • My name is Tchelet Zohar.

    我的名字是 Tchelet Zohar

  • I'm from a small town called Giv'at Ze'ev right outside of Jerusalem, and I'm 24 years old.

    來自耶路撒冷城外的一個小鎮現在24歲

  • My name is Arab al-Ameen. I'm 24 years old and I'm from Jerusalem.

    我是Arab 24歲 來自耶路撒冷

  • My name is Ran Bar-Yoshafat. I'm 34 years old, and I work as a deputy director of a think-tank that deals with law and economics.

    我是Ran今年34歲 擔任副經理一職 在一個涉及法律及經濟概況的智囊庫裡

  • Can I have my Israelis on the left, my Palestinians on the right.

    (請歸屬以色列的人站到左邊,歸屬巴勒斯坦的人站到右邊)

  • The first statement is: someone I know has died because of this conflict.

    (第一個議題陳述: 我所認識的人之中,有人是因為兩民族間的衝突而身亡)

  • Okay, my father was murdered by two IDF soldiers.

    我的爸爸被兩名以色列國防軍謀殺

  • It hit us hard, especially for my family.

    這件事對我們家的衝擊很大

  • We're only girls, and inside of the Arabic nation, that's really hard.

    尤其是我們家庭其他成員都是女性,要生活於阿拉伯民族中很困難

  • My friend when I was 10 years old, an Israeli sniper shot at her on her head.

    在我10歲的時候我的朋友被狙擊手擊中頭部死亡

  • So, that was really hard for us.

    我們感到難以承受

  • Well, I grew up during the Second Intifada.

    我在阿克薩群眾起義期間長大

  • I carry a list with me of all my friends who were murdered in terror attacks.

    列著與我關係很親近而殉葬於恐攻暴動的人

  • So I have a list of 27 people, they were actually very close to me.

    一共27位他們都在這場暴動中喪命了

  • In Israel, we have a memorial today, so I have always a dilemma to which grave to go to.

    而每當紀念日到來時 心裡總覺得要哀悼的人多得我不知道要從誰先開始追悼

  • On the 16th of January, 2007, an Israeli soldier shot and killed my sister, Rabir.

    在2007的1月16日那天一名以色列士兵對我的妹妹開槍

  • She was 10 years old, in front of our school, and I was 13.

    射殺了當時只有10歲還在學的她而我那時正值13歲

  • We were six kids in the house.

    我們家原本有6個兄弟姊妹

  • After that, we became two sisters and three brothers.

    槍殺事件後 我們只剩下2個姊妹、3個兄弟

  • All of the people that I know have lost someone to the war in some way, and I think like grief is such a universal emotion.

    我所接觸過的人 他們總有因為那場恐攻而失去身邊之人的經歷,讓我切深察覺到「悲痛」是那樣無所不在的情感

  • And like, really, I want to hug all of you.

    我好想給在場的你們一個擁抱

  • I served in the IDF. I still serve in the Army Reserves.

    我之前服役於以色列國防軍 (IDF = 以色列國防軍)

  • Combat. I was very combat in the Second Intifada and I feel your grief and I understand it,

    現在仍舊服役於該軍團,我在二次巴勒斯坦大起義中正是以色列國防軍的一員,我能感受到你們的哀痛,我知道很難受

  • but I have to say that I never got an order to shoot someone the order was only to shoot if someone is thirty rely for a third to someone else's lives

    但是我必須說 我從來沒有接收過要射殺任何人的指令,指令只有教導我們在危及人身安全之餘才可以開槍

  • I also served in the IDF and they really do just teach us to defend ourselves

    我也服役於以色列國防軍,軍團的指令真的只有教導我們自我防衛

  • If we're not defending ourselves, and we do kill someone, we go to jail.

    如果我們沒有做到自我防衛而動武造成死傷,我們會被送進監獄

  • That's not true. That's not true.

    沒有,根本不是這樣

  • I can tell you something

    我可以告訴你們

  • The soldier that killed my sister. He didn't spend one day in there.

    殺我妹妹的士兵沒待過一天監獄

  • Neither did my father both of them that murdered him did not stay one day in jail.

    殺死我父親的兩名士兵也沒被關進監獄過

  • Okay, I think the Palestinian they will not stop saying that we we want we want a country so in the end if we

    我是這樣認為的巴勒斯坦人民仍舊嚮往擁有屬於自己的國家

  • Got to the point that we have our state and they have a state. So no problem

    如果說以色列及巴勒斯坦雙方都能承認各自擁有的領土,這個問題就解決了

  • This is gonna be better for us to live all of us together,

    兩方民族能共榮生活在同一塊土地才是上上之策

  • which is no state like Palestine no state like Israeli only together and having peace together like there is no walls and there is no checkpoints which is happening right now.

    也就是說 沒有哪個地區應該是哪一方區區獨自享有而是雙方能夠真正的共享,不要再有圍牆的分隔,移除現行的檢查哨站

  • I'm with you. One state under Israel's sovereignty and everyone's full equal citizen

    我和妳的想法一致。一個國家在以色列的一國統治之下每個人都會是平等的真正公民

  • Alright, okay, but under Israeli sovereignty because right now I. Why is that a problem?

    但這一切實現於以色列國家的整合統治因為現在...這有什麼問題嗎

  • Why should it be on one? Why should one religion control?

    為什麼非得要有一方宗教來統治任一方

  • It's not a religion, it's a nationality. It's my nationality.

    這不關乎宗教 而是自身的國籍歸屬

  • So if we all want a state with the Palestinian, the Palestinian they control it you can live under it? - No.

    所以說 如果有一個巴勒斯坦人這麼告訴你,你可以在巴勒斯坦國家的統治之下與我們共存共享嗎?- 無法

  • Because A: it's not your land; and B: you mentioned-

    因為其一 因為那不是你的領土 其二 你剛剛提及到耶路撒冷....

  • You can't tell me that, please. Don't say that-

    你不能這樣說 拜託 不要跟我這樣說...

  • I'm saying 100%, Palestine used to maintain-

    我要說 肯定的說,巴勒斯坦過去曾...

  • Can I ask you one question? Please, answer it. Your grand, grand, grandfather. You know where he is?

    我可以借問一個問題嗎?拜託回答我,你的曾曾曾祖父 你知道他源自哪裡嗎?

  • Yes.

    我知道

  • Where he is?

    他來自哪裡?

  • How many how many graves you want me to count?

    跟我說你要回溯到幾個世代前

  • Seven before. Seven before I know, yes. - Where? - Seven before is in Hungary. In Hungary.

    6或7個世代前,我知道7個世代前的祖父來自在哪裡。- 他來自哪裡呢?他來自匈牙利

  • Nine before (for me) is in Palestine. Don't tell me it's not my land-

    9個世代前 巴勒斯坦依舊是巴勒斯坦別告訴我們「這土地不屬於巴勒斯坦人民的」的話

  • I'm saying it's not your land.

    我想表達的是「這塊地不屬於你們的」

  • It's our land that and it will still and will be.

    「屬於巴勒斯坦的就是屬於我們的」將來也不會改變

  • Like how do you determine this is our land and it's not their land based on what?

    你是如何去區分決定這塊土地是我們的而不是他們的是基於什麼之上?

  • History, international law, and interest.

    是有鑒於歷史、國際法、利益與團結之間

  • Yes. How about empathy?

    好,那從「相互理解」的角度出發呢

  • I have empathy, I'm just not willing to live to give up on my identity in what I believe is mine.

    我對雙方已經有足夠的瞭解,不過我並不想因此而忽略屬於原我的身分

  • When I say that, I'm afraid what I basically mean is I'm afraid of going into Gaza, because I know that if I will go into Gaza, I might get shot, someone might kill me

    當我說「害怕」這個字詞,我真正的意思其實是,我「害怕」步進加薩走廊,因為要是我敢踏進加薩,我很有可能遭人下手殺害

  • I think I hesitated a little bit because I don't think I'm afraid of the people on the other side.

    對於這個問題我猶豫了一下,因為我並不害怕面對另一方族群的人民

  • I think I'm afraid of the gap and sort of almost equally afraid of like you know that side, taking all of the responsibility for what is happening or this side taking all of the responsibility for what is happening.

    我所害怕的是雙方之間的「隔閡」,同樣令我感到害怕的是,總有一方被認為得扛下這一切的過錯與責任

  • Which is obviously not working.

    很明顯的這並不能真正解決問題

  • Well, that's fair enough. I don't believe that all Palestinians are terrorists because that doesn't make sense

    如妳所說的,我不認為所有的巴勒斯坦人都是恐怖份子,這並不合理

  • But I do believe that who is in charge, they're leading the Palestinians to you know, hating us and in a way that you know, it is really unfair

    但巴勒斯坦的領導階層對以色列族群帶有憤恨是事實,他們鼓動對立的風向,這對雙方的公民都是不公的

  • I'm against, against what you said.

    我不認同妳剛剛所說的

  • They're not the Islam because Islam didn't didn't say kill killing people or having a blood. Don't believe that.

    妳所說的那群人並不是伊斯蘭教信徒,真正的伊斯蘭教沒有教人殺戮或取人鮮血,別被這種言語困惑

  • The radical Muslims that come and do these things, what do you have to say?

    那麼那些口傳:「來,跟我這麼做」的激進穆斯林呢,你怎麼解釋

  • They're not part of us. We never accept them as Muslims because they're teaching hate and in a way I accepted what you just said about there's a big problem with our governments.

    他們與我們不同於一流,我們從沒承認他們是穆斯林,他們教導人們憤恨,另一方面,我認同妳所說的,雙方的政府當局之間有很大的溝通障礙

  • They don't know how to talk to each other and in my idea I really think the people or the ones I should be talking to each other.

    他們不懂得有效的溝通,以我的觀點來說,你我之間的溝通更是至關重要

  • I agree and I have to say also don't think there's an issue with Muslims.

    我同意妳說的,我亦不認為這關乎到穆斯林

  • But I disagree with you about the fact it's about plans. There are several peace talks. They were offered 97 percent of the land.

    但我對於妳所陳述的領土計畫持相反意見,事實上 和平談判沒有間斷,談判中釋讓了百分之97的領土

  • 98 would have done it. I disagree.

    實際可能給到百分之98 卻沒有得到同意,

  • But after deciding with the land they came and they built more settlements.

    在他們談妥領域範圍後,以色列卻在境內建造更多的定所

  • What's wrong with that? What's wrong with Jews living in Judea?

    猶太人在猶地亞生活有什麼不對的 (以色列定居點:以色列在1967年六日戰爭所奪取土地,並建立猶太人社區)

  • That's not the problem. The problem is is that we actually talked about this land being for these people and in the end when we see Israelis coming in and actually building houses that's showing us you guys don't want peace.

    那不是癥結所在,真正的問題出於以色列在成立的土地協議之餘,以色列卻又越境建蓋 ,這表示出以色列並不想實現和平

  • [I trust my sources of information on the conflict.]

    [我對於自己所接收的資訊出處抱持信任]

  • I serve in the IDF so first of all I trust myself and my officers.

    我服役於以色列國防軍,我相信自己也信任於長官

  • I do think that a lot of the information I'm getting is not accurate, which is why I've tried to compare it with different sources and I also try to see it from people, what they think what they feel.

    但我認為我所得到的資訊也會參雜錯誤訊息,所以我會嘗試參考不同來源的資訊,我也會站在在不同族群的角度,揣測他們對事件的看法

  • I don't trust everything I see on the news, that's for sure. I do believe again there are two sides to every single story.

    當然我不信任我在新聞中所看到的一切,我認為任何事件報導都一定有兩面說詞

  • But I do see things that are happening for instance you know things like the the rockets that are striking or the stabs that are happening.

    我相信我真眼看見的、正在發生的,像是飛彈攻擊、人們互相殘殺

  • Those things I do trust because I can see that they're happening and they're just unfair.

    這些我當然相信是真正發生在現實當中

  • Like I see the the narrative being written I was like I watch TV.

    我看見新聞是如何報導,相比我正在電視上所看見的

  • I know how important and how powerful language is and how it can create reality,

    我意識到傳播的語言是多麼有影響力又多麼重要,報導可以塑造出「現實」

  • and like I can I can see it, like this is really dangerous like on both sides it's really dangerous.

    我認為這是極其危險可怕的,這對於雙方人民都是有害的

  • If you see is media that I see they're always against Israel for things that are not necessarily our fault.

    我看到了很多媒體報導總是責備、反對以色列,但這些事件報導中以色列多半是無辜的

  • I find it very funny because we look at it as and start saying that they're really with Israel, which is funny.

    聽起來滿有趣的,當我聽著我們的討論,說著「他們與以色列是同邊的」這聽起來挺有趣的

  • But no, I seriously do find the information that we're getting has more as an agenda to it from both sides.

    不過當然我有強烈意識到,我們所得到的資訊大多是要帶出待議議題

  • I don't believe in social media like from the Israeli side, I'm gonna support Israel and from the Palestinian side, gonna support Palestinians.

    無論是以色列或巴勒斯坦,我不相信社交媒體上的資訊,因為來自以色列的社交媒體必定會支持以色列的作為,相反地 巴勒斯坦人也會支持自己人

  • People gonna be very confused and I'm gonna be very confused about the reality.

    視聽人勢必會覺得很困惑,對我們所在的現實世界感到無所適從

  • So the question was the sources so it doesn't have to be just social media and the reports like this like I also trust the reports that the Israeli security forces publish.

    所以我們講的是資訊的「出處」,沒有說一定要把社交媒體作為唯一可靠的資訊來源,或是相類似的報導,像我,我相信以色列安全部隊的刊登報導

  • Don't trust their ideas, not about the reality and the situation but their ideas, how do they see this situation?

    別任意相信你所看到的,但撇除現實面 我要說的是人們的「意見」,重點是人們的想法是如何看待和詮釋所發生的現實,

  • It's not really what happened.

    並非現實所發生的

  • [I want political leaders on my side to make compromises for peace.]

    [我希望我方領導人能為「和平」做出妥協]

  • If we continue to do what we did until now, it's going to continue as it was now and I don't see it getting better.

    如果我們繼續現在的做法,我們將永遠活在這個循環當中,而我感覺不到保持現狀會改善雙方的局勢

  • Our leaders should have our lives and the best for us in their minds and so it's not compromising like peace is never compromising.

    雙方領導人的首要目的應該以人民的福祉為中心,而這並不會使雙方顏面掃地,為「和平」而妥協絕不是丟臉的事

  • The Palestinian politician, in the end, they want peace for they selves and for the people but they have no power.

    巴勒斯坦的政府官員也寄望著和平,為了他們自己著想也為他們的人民著想,但他們沒有實質的權力

  • Because the power it's not in their hand. It's in the other side.

    因為以色列才是真正握有權力

  • I would like for us to compromise only if you will be able to compromise

    如果你我雙方都真的能做到妥協,這樣的情況下我樂意為和平所妥協

  • It doesn't make sense that every time that we have a war, it's always started by your side.

    每次的戰爭衝突都指向巴勒斯坦是起役的那方,這很不合理

  • The other day I just heard about you know over a thousand eight hundred acres of crops have been burnt by you know Hamas who have been sending it over to Israel.

    有一天我聽到一則新聞,超過1800英畝的農作物遭到縱火,禍首就是哈馬斯運動組織,組織派人們前來以色列 (哈馬斯運動組織 : 立於1987,該組織的目標是奪回巴勒斯坦在以色列所擁有土地,包括約旦河西岸,以建立巴勒斯坦國—牛津字典)

  • Instead of you know, spending all that money in order to ruin us, why don't they spend it on taking care of Palestine?

    他們寧可把花費用在策畫如何毀滅以色列,為什麼他們不把所花費的拿來照顧巴勒斯坦人民

  • Just one second. You're talking about Hamas. You're talking about the Gaza. Gaza, it's so far from us

    我插一下話,妳現在說的「哈馬斯運動組織」、「加薩」加薩距離我們很遠

  • We don't know what's going over there. We don't know. If you can ask me about the West Bank, I'm gonna answer and I think you as well.

    我們不清楚那裡發生了些什麼,我們無從得知,我們可以聊「約旦河西岸地區」,我會很樂意回答,相信他們也能回答妳的疑惑

  • But here's the way I see it. When you're talking about compromise, Hamas' charter says murder the Jews wherever they are in the--

    但說到「妥協」,我是這麼想的,「哈馬斯運動組織」主張 :「滅殺一切在巴勒斯坦當局下的猶太人」(PA : 「巴勒斯坦官方政府」的縮寫名稱。創於1994年的自治政府。為掌管加薩走廊及約旦河西岸部分地區所建立之過度時期的政府組織。—維基百科)

  • You're going back to Hamas- Hold on, hold on.

    你又再談哈馬斯運動組織... - 等一下等我說

  • But the PA- We're not talking about-

    我們沒有要再繼續談加薩.

  • stating authority- But then-

    當局

  • Let me finish! It was the authority that are the moderates they're saying it's a death sentence if you sell your house to a Jew.

    讓我講完,巴勒斯坦當局的中立人士說明與猶太人房屋交易將被判死刑

  • Are there racist people Israel? Of course. Are racist people everywhere in the world? Yes, but we condemn people who are acting violently and the other side glorifies it.

    你問說以色列有沒有種族主義者,當然有,種族主義者存活在世界的每個角落,但我們譴責不同種族間暴力相向的行為,甚至顯耀如此的行為

  • [Violence is sometimes justified.]

    [暴力有時是為正義伸張的必要手段]

  • If you're going to attack Israel, then Israel is going to defend themselves.

    如果巴勒斯坦進攻以色列,當然以色列會出於自我保護而動武

  • And that means when it comes to certain things maybe not you specifically, but again, to the radical Muslims, we have to, because if we don't then there's not gonna be a state of Israel anymore.

    也就是說在特定情況而非針對巴勒斯坦人民,尤其是對付極端穆斯林,暴力對抗在所難免,要是我們不動用武力對抗 以色列將難以存續而滅亡

  • I don't think it's a matter of Israeli Arabs or Jews Christians.

    我想這不關乎任何宗教像猶太、基督或伊斯蘭等

  • Sometimes we have to, you have to use violence. I hope it'll be close to zero as possible.

    「暴力」有時是必需的,我希望零暴力能實現於現實

  • But if I see someone about to murder someone else and I think it's okay for me to use violence to stop that.

    但目睹暗殺現場的發生,我有利用暴力阻止悲劇發生的權利

  • I think violence is not allowed for a political goal. I think that's a bad place to use violence.

    但我不允許「暴力」用於政治目的的達成,應該將其視為濫用暴力

  • I prefer talking and having a discourse.

    我理想的政治事務應該以研討的方式進行

  • Okay, I didn't grow up with with a lot of violence with the zero violence, but what I want to say the same as you said,

    我並非在充滿暴力的環境下長大,但也不是沒發生過暴力,但我要說得如同妳剛剛說的

  • who comes to my house to broke the door to take my father, of course, I will defense for myself.

    要是有人破門而入要將我的爸爸帶走,出於自衛我會反抗

  • So it's called violence, but I wanted defense for myself.

    這就我說的「暴力」,我一定會保護好我所關心的人事物

  • First of all, I am against violence 100%.

    首先 我完全反對「暴力」

  • It's a freaking circle. It's going to keep on happening over and over again.

    暴力讓人陷入重蹈覆轍的可怕循環之中

  • For me, if you're gonna act for the violence with the violence, so here we go.

    對我來說,如果是以暴治暴,等著瞧

  • We're having like the same problems, the same generation who's raised with hatred and violence love blood which is not acceptable.

    我們的衝突問題將日復一日的重現於我們世代間,於懷恨、暴力與嗜血之中長大成人,對我來說這是很要不得的

  • [Having a homeland for my people is important to me.]

    [擁有自己的家園對我及我的族人來說很重要]

  • I think that Israel needs to be our homeland because if we won't have a homeland, no one else is going to accept us anywhere else, especially because there's a lot of racism and anti-semitism as well.

    以色列人民需要有以色列作為我們的家園,要是我們沒有這塊家園,世界沒有第二處可以容得下我們,尤其是種族歧視、反猶太主義充斥於世界各處

  • So if we're not gonna be here, where are we gonna go?

    1如果我們不待在以色列,我們又可以去哪呢

  • Okay,l for me as a Muslim, the Holy Land it's why it's so important, first of all because I was born here.

    我身為穆斯林,聖地也就變得無比重要,我出生於那裡

  • I have no place that I don't replace.

    我就是在聖地這裡了

  • Every single person around the word had the right to live in the place that they were born in and that the right for Palestinians also for if we're gonna talk about refugees also,

    每個人天生就有享有居留在自己國家的基本人權,巴勒斯坦人民也不意外,也包括巴勒斯坦難民 (巴勒斯坦難民 : 指的是在1946年元月直到1948年爆發的抗戰中,失去家庭及原有生活的原生巴勒斯坦人民。—聯合國難民救濟及工程局)

  • they have the right to come back here to their lands to their homes and have their places.

    他們要能如願地回到他們的家鄉自己的家,那個屬於自己的地方

  • The fact that we came back to our homeland and that we do have a country and a government here for me like it does feel like a miracle.

    我們有家可回又有可靠的政府撐起了我們的家園,這一切對我而言像是一個奇蹟

  • But I also think that the fact that we do have the power now gives us more responsibility and that we can't just base it on the fact that it's our homeland and not hear other voices saying we feel the same about the same place.

    但如同我們擁有,這項權利便賦予我們責任,不過我們不能因此占為己有 故步自封而不去聽外界的聲音,這些聲音告訴我們其實我們想法一致

  • [I often question my place in this conflict.]

    [在衝突之中我常常對自己的立場感到疑惑]

  • All the time requests if it's more dialogue, more force, more conversations, more social media, I always ask myself, "What is the best thing?" I tend to believe that the best thing is human interaction.

    當聽見越多對話、遇見越多的動武行動、頻繁的溝通、迎面而來的社群網站,我越是問自己:「對你我而言,什麼是最好的?」而我選擇相信「互動交流」是最為有效的

  • A lot of times I take a step back from like the political argument about the conflict and all of that just because I feel like unworthy and that I don't know enough.

    在政治討論中很多時候我會退一步,去了解人們談論有關雙方衝突的意見,我多半只是覺得這些對話不營養,而我也不夠瞭解真相

  • So my way, I've always known what I what I am in this conflict, I always knew I wanted to fight for peace. That's all I knew and that's all I will ever know.

    一路以來我清楚知道我對衝突的看法及我的立場,我知道我要為和平而戰,這就是我所知道,不會改變的意識

  • I never was in the idea of this conflict until my father passed away. And then I had to think for myself.

    在我失去父親那刻 我才開始注意以巴衝突,我要自己去理解這一切

  • I always was asking my father why I was born.

    過去我總是問我父親「我出生是為什麼?」

  • And his answer, not to kill, to live, to be in life.

    而他回答 : 「別過死殺,生來而活,活在當下。」

  • And when my sister she got killed, I went back to him.

    而我妹妹被殺害後,我回頭再問爸爸同樣的問題

  • He told me I was born to live, not to kill, but my sister she was born to die.

    他說我是生而活著,而非殺生,但我的妹妹註定被殺害

  • The Palestinians, they didn't kill six million Israelis and the Israelis still didn't kill six million Palestinian.

    在納粹大屠殺期間 6百萬民以色列猶太人並非遭巴勒斯坦殺害,同時以色列人也沒有殺害6百萬民巴勒斯坦人 (約有6百萬民猶太人在納粹大屠殺中遭殺害—維基百科)

  • There is a German Embassy in Tel Aviv and there is a Israeli Embassy in Germany,

    特拉維夫城內駐紮著德國大使館,而在德國境內也有駐紮以色列大使館

  • so it's a big hole, it's always gives me hope when I'm looking at this and thinking a little bit about this.

    這是個宏大的嚮往,每當我有這樣的想法就會讓我充滿希望,總是一絲絲地在腦中回想

  • I gotta say I think it's nice slogans. I don't think that's the case. Israel has a peace treaty with Egypt because Egypt was willing to have peace with Israel.

    你說的如同一套光鮮的說詞,但那跟現實狀況不符,埃及願意與以色列和平共處,所以雙方享有和平公約,

  • Israel has a history with Jordan because the Jordanians were willing to have peace with with Israel.

    同樣的 約旦人民想與以色列保持友好,所以我們兩國間也享有和平公約

  • Also from one to one, it's it's different how the way you think-

    但一碼歸一碼 要各別談論,你所想的角度與你對待巴勒斯坦不同

  • I agree, which is exactly why I don't believe in a in a peace between the two sides because in my understanding of reality the whole concept of Palestinian nationality-

    沒錯 正是因為如此我才不相信雙方會達成和平共識,因為我認為的巴勒斯坦民族的理念是...

  • Because you don't accept Palestinians.

    你其實不認可巴勒斯坦的存在

  • I accept human beings. I'm saying that the whole concept of Palestinian nationality is one goal. And that is the annihilation of Israel.

    我承認「人」的存在,我說的是巴勒斯坦民族的理念是有目的性的,就是一致地要毀滅以色列

  • When Jordan took over Judea and Samaria, when Egypt took over Gaza, no one asked for a Palestinian-

    當約旦拿下猶地亞和撒馬利亞,而埃及佔領加薩,這些都沒有口頭告知巴勒斯坦人民

  • But you're combining everyone you're combining everyone into one ideology, which is not right.

    但你把所有人都冠上單一理念,這想法不對

  • Why, what do you mean?

    為什麼妳會這麼說

  • You're saying because they're saying that they're Palestinian. This is what they want, which is not true.

    就你說的「他們」是巴勒斯坦人 而這就是「他們」所追求的,但這與現實不符

  • I'II take it back. I'm saying the government, I'm saying the authority.

    我把那段話收回來,我指的是巴勒斯坦政及當局,並不是全部的巴勒斯坦人

  • I agree it's different

    我同意妳說的,巴勒斯坦政府人士不同於人民

  • Okay, because I don't refer to the Arabs as being Samarians Palestinians I refer to them as being Arabs of Judea and Samaria

    我所指的阿拉伯人並不是撒馬利亞的巴勒斯坦人,我視他們為猶地亞、撒馬利亞的阿拉伯人

  • If we were gonna live long, long age or long years, we're gonna see, we're gonna see each other.

    只要我們還賣力地活著,時間久遠了,有一天我們會瞧見的,我們將目睹相會

  • Great! Yeah.

    那很好 雙方都可以走在一起

  • And we, we're gonna have it.

    那天總是會到來的

  • You can have it.

    巴勒斯坦的人民做得到的

  • Nobody's no, I'm talking about peace. We're gonna have it here.

    不,我說的是我們此地此刻擁有的「和平」

  • [I'd like to sit down and share a meal with everyone here.]

    [我樂意坐下來與在場的人共享餐桌時光]

  • Hello. Hi guys.

    嗨各位

  • I'm Johnny.

    我是 Johnny (巴勒斯坦廚師)

  • Hi Johhny. Shalom.

    嗨 Johnny。

  • There's on top, some passion fruit juice which gives a kick.

    上層淋有熱帶水果汁液,讓風味更豐富

  • So, how was the experience, guys?

    剛剛的聊天經驗如何

  • For me it was perfect, (it) was good.

    對我來說兩個字「完美」 感覺很好

  • And it was a good meeting.

    是場很棒的聚會

  • It was topsy-turvy. It was upside down

    一開始感到凌亂無章

  • The beginning yeah.

    與認知的完全相反

  • Because like you don't know who's in front of you, you don't know their ideas, their ideology, what they think about you.

    因為對坐在另一邊的人們毫不熟悉,不知道他們思想為何、怎麼看待自己

  • I think we did come to some sort of an agreement that we both do want peace.

    我們似乎對「平等」有著同樣的期盼

  • I want security freedom and prosperity.

    我想得到的是「秩序安全」、「自由」與「社會興隆」

  • You're talking about legal peace.

    你是在講「法益上的和平」

  • I don't want a piece of paper that says peace. I want to live in peace. I don't want a piece of paper says we have a peace treaty.

    我不想要一張寫著「和平」的同意書,我要「活在」和平中,而非紙上談兵

  • Okay but we don't agree because I don't believe in a Palestinian state and you think you should have like a two-state solution so we don't agree.

    嗯,那正是我們的意思,但我們不相信巴勒斯坦國,而需要弄什麼「兩國方案」,我們不同意這點

  • No, but we did say we wanted a one-state of solution.

    但我們說明了我們想要實現「一國方案」

  • Israel with everyone equal. I'm fine with it. - Exactly.

    只要以色列人民能和其他族群和平共處,這樣就夠了 -沒錯

  • Well, I learned from you that you have a lot of sympathy for our side as well even though your sister passed away, which is terrible. She didn't pass away, she was murdered.

    我從今天的對談了解到你們對我方有著很大的關愛,即使你說你的妹妹過世了 多麼傷痛糟糕,應該說是被謀殺

  • But I can see that you also have sympathy for the other side and you actually are trying to you know communicate with us even though you went through everything that you had to go through on your end.

    但我感覺得到你對於我們的同情關愛,甚至嘗試與我們溝通互動,在這種種之後,你隻身一路走來

  • And I definitely learned that we can learn to love your side as well or I could learn to love your side as well.

    我更堅決相信雙方可以學著互愛,或是學著喜歡上對方的民族

  • I think this is the main point for our maybe conflict, that we did not hear from each other.

    我想會引起雙方衝突的主因正是不願彼此聆聽

  • So I think it's important to hear from each other, not just keep your thoughts and ideas.

    因此「聆聽」是多麼重要,而不是一股腦地把訊息和想法鎖在腦海

  • Inside your head and don't try to open this box. Just try to open it.

    總是封閉自我,試著敞開心房

  • We want really similar things.

    我們渴望的其實沒那麼不同

  • Yeah, and it sort of you feel like you know my friends from back home.

    遇見你們就像是遇見家鄉的朋友一樣

  • And so the realization that we do have the same sort of language,

    讓我切身意識到我們多少享有相同的語言

  • not in like the language that we speak but in our body language and the things that interest us and the future that we hold for ourselves and for our families

    這語言是出於肢體行為而非嘴巴上說的,像是面對種種事情的看法,對於將來,我們對自己與家園有著相同的期望

  • Like there are no sides. Like I can't draw a line and say, "Okay. I'm like these people or I'm with these people."

    這樣的期待在種族間像是無邊的,就如同我們不應該斷定誰就是屬於哪一國,或是非得選邊站

  • Hey guys, this is Jason.

    哈囉~大家,我是傑森

  • And this is John. Just want to say thank you so much for watching a really special episode of Middle Ground.

    我是約翰,很感謝你們收看這次的特輯,

  • We love this series because it's an opportunity now more than ever to create great dialogue and create radical empathy.

    在這令人喜愛的系列中,我們更有機會呈現來賓豐富的對話內容,挖掘人們自內心對彼此最真誠的同理

  • This was a challenge, but also a privilege to get to go to Jerusalem to film this dialogue around a subject that is, you know, very tricky and very difficult.

    這系列是個挑戰,同時也深感榮幸,能有這樣的「權利」到耶路撒冷拍攝談論這個棘手難解的議題

  • But we loved having the challenge, totally.

    但我們樂於接受這個挑戰

  • We want to say a huge shout-out to YouTube and Creators for Change, which gave us the resources and the support to do this and we'd love to hear your thoughts.

    我們非常感謝YouTube及Creators for Change團隊的大力協助及資源,我們也很渴望聽到大家的想法

  • Let us know what you thought about the episode and the various perspectives in the comments below and also let us know what other suggestions for Middle Ground you have.

    不管是關於這個系列或是影片中的觀點,歡迎各位在留言區留言

  • We want to do more episodes bigger and even better.

    而你們還希望看見什麼樣的主題探討,我們會盡力開拓視野並做出更優質的內容

  • Yeah, and as always, please be sure to click subscribe and follow us on Instagram.

    同樣的,記得訂閱並持續追蹤我們的Instagram

  • Thanks, see guys later.

    我們下次見。

- Because A: it's not your land; B: you mentioned Jerusalem--

首先 因為那不是你的領土 二來 你剛才提到耶路撒冷...

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