Piers and his guest at the time weren't happy.

當時，皮爾斯和他的嘉賓對於這件事情並不開心。

Behind the scenes pictures from Disney's live-action remake of Snow White Elite this weekend, there appears to be a sizable problem.

本週末釋出的在迪士尼的《白雪公主》真人翻拍片場的幕後照片中，出現了一個相當大的問題。

Where are the dwarfs?

小矮人在哪裡？

These are roles made for actors of my stature.

這些角色都是為我這樣的演員量身定做的。

I can't go out for the Harrison Ford or the George Clooney roles because that's not for me and now it's taken away it.

我不能出演哈里遜·福特或喬治·克隆尼的角色，因為那不適合我，現在又被搶走了，

I don't feel that's right.

我覺得那樣不對。

Well, now that very same production has caused controversy after the actress who plays Snow White said this about Prince Charming.

《白雪公主》的女主角這樣評價白馬王子，

In an interview, Rachel Ziegler saying, "The original cartoon came out in 1937 and very evidently so. There is a big focus on her love story, with a guy literally stalking her... how weird!"

瑞秋·曾格勒在接受採訪時說：「原版卡通片是在 1937 年推出的，很明顯，她的愛情故事有一個很大的重點，就是有一個男人在跟蹤她，超奇怪！」

"Well, we have a different approach to what a lot of people will assume is a love story because we cast a guy in the movie. But it's really not about the love story at all, which is really, really wonderful."

「我們採用了一種不同的方式，很多人會認為這是一個愛情故事，因為我們找了一個男演員來演這部電影，但它其實完全不是關於愛情故事的，這真的非常非常棒。」

Well, there has been inevitable backlash online. Fans accusing Disney of inserting unnecessary feminism into classic fairytales.

網路上出現了不可避免的反彈聲浪。粉絲們指責迪士尼在經典童話故事中不必要地加入了女權主義元素。

Joining me now to debate, this is the host of "Tomi Lahren is Fearless" on outkick, Tomi Lahren.

現在加入辯論的是《Tomi Lahren 的無畏》出擊節目主持人 Tomi Lahren。

Hi, Tomi.

嗨，Tomi。

And from New York, the brand marketing consumer expert, the founder and chief soothsayer from sooth, Ian Bare.

還有來自紐約的品牌行銷消費者專家，sooth品牌的創始人兼首席預言師伊恩·巴爾。

Once again.

再次，

Great to see you both.

很高興見到你們倆。

Tomi, give us your take on this, Disney just messing with the classics.

Tomi 跟我們談談你對於迪斯尼在篡改經典的看法。

Yes, they certainly are.

他們確實是。

Now, listen, if Disney wants to make more woke films, that tank at the box office, they are more than welcome to do that.

聽著，如果迪斯尼想製作更多票房慘淡的「覺醒」電影，我們非常歡迎他們這樣做。

But maybe think of an original idea, maybe not destroy a classic from my childhood and put an actress in there that not only hates the plot and the storyline of the movie she's in, but also seemingly hates Snow White, the character herself.

但也許可以想一個新穎的點子，也許不要毀掉我童年的經典，讓一個不僅討厭電影情節和故事情節，而且似乎還討厭白雪公主這個角色的女演員出演。

I mean, that's one interview clip that you read the quote from, but she's gone on to talk about this film numerous times how she once thought Snow White was creepy.

我的意思是，這只是你讀到的一個採訪片段，但她後來多次談到這部電影，說她曾經覺得白雪公主很嚇人。

She doesn't like the prince.

她不喜歡王子。

She thinks she should get paid more because she has to wear that dress.

她認為她應該得到更多的報酬，因為她必須穿那件公主戲服。

She should get paid for streaming for every hour she has to wear the dress.

她應該根據穿著這件裙子的時間來得到串流收入。

I mean, talk about biting the hand that feeds you.

這根本是忘恩負義吧。

Not only are you being casted in a classic film to remake it but you don't seemingly like your own character.

你不僅被選中出演一部經典電影的翻拍版，而且你似乎並不喜歡自己的角色。

So she comes off as an insufferable whiny brat.

所以，她就像一個難以忍受的愛抱怨的小鬼。

And that's why people are so annoyed beyond just them inserting feminism.

這就是為什麼人們如此惱火，而不僅僅是他們在電影中加入女權主義。

I think we expect that at this point.

我認為在這個時候，我們已經預料到這種情況了。

But why do you have to mess with the classic?

但你為什麼非要破壞經典呢？

Especially with someone who doesn't even seem to like her own character?

尤其是一個看起來根本不喜歡自己角色的人？

Ok, interesting.

好的。有意思。

I hear your take on her and the interview she's giving and the type of sort of the way she's coming across.

我聽到了你對她的看法，以及她接受採訪的方式。

But you say that you're kind of used to feminism being inserted into Disney movies.

但你說你已經習慣了在迪士尼電影中加入女權主義。

Now, Ian, it's a smart marketing move, isn't it?

Ian，這是個聰明的營銷策略，不是嗎？

Well, any moves, a smart marketing move, it resonates with the people who are putting revenue against your product.

任何明智的營銷舉動，都會與那些為你的產品帶來收益的人產生共鳴。

Look, the reality is Disney has been doing very inclusive casting for decades now.

聽著，現實情況是，迪士尼幾十年來一直在做包容性很強的選角工作。

Go back to the 1980s and that's really when they turned the corner and that formula of damsels in distress got replaced this with these more heroic feminine characters beginning with Ariel back then.

回溯到 1980 年代，那真正是他們轉變的時候，從那時起，受難女子被這些更具英雄氣概的女性角色所取代，從當時的艾莉兒開始。

But certainly, all the Disney princesses ever since have really been triumphant females.

但可以肯定的是，從那以後，所有的迪士尼公主都是真正的勝利女性。

So it's not a shock to see Disney pivot from, you know, 19th century German source material to something that they believe is going to resonate with the audience.

所以看到迪斯尼從 19 世紀的德國素材轉向能夠引起觀眾共鳴的東西，並不令人震驚。

Of course, you know, people will vote with their wallets.

當然，人們會決定是否要付費支持。

Right, Tomi, 19th century German source material.

Tomi，19 世紀的德國原始素材。

Can you really blame Disney for wanting to call a modern audience, Gen Z and younger, these girls, they think differently they act differently, they have different aspirations in life?

你真的能責怪迪士尼想要吸引現代觀眾嗎？Z 世代和更年輕的這些女孩，她們的想法不同，行為不同，對生活的追求也不同。

Yeah, it's ok to modernize things.

現代化是可以的。

But if you have such an issue with the original fairytale and the original storyline, maybe instead of remaking it, you just make a different movie.

但是，如果你對原版童話和原版故事情節有如此大的意見，也許與其翻拍，不如另拍一部電影。

I don't think that's too much to ask for.

我認為這個要求並不過分。

But furthermore, listen, you can have female characters that are empowered that do great things that are, that are heroines.

此外，聽著，你可以讓女性角色有能力去做偉大的事情，她們是女英雄。

I mean, that's fantastic.

我是說，這太棒了。

I don't think anybody has an issue with it, but you don't have to disparage men in the process.

我認為沒有人對此有異議，但你不必在這個過程中貶低男性。

You don't have to call Prince Charming a stalker.

你不必稱白馬王子為跟蹤狂。

You don't have to say that you could just eliminate him from the whole movie.

你不必把他從整部電影中刪除。

I mean, there is a space where you can have strong females and strong males,

我的意思是，在某個地方可以有強勢的女性，也可以有強勢的男性。

it's called the real world or, you know, at least some places that still exist maybe only here in Nashville, Tennessee and others.

這存在於「真實世界」，或者，你知道的，至少在某些地方仍然存在，也許只存在於田納西州的納什維爾和其他地方，

But it's ok to do both, and you don't have to make men seem emasculated and puny to make women seem strong and you don't have to eliminate them altogether as this actress has actually suggested.

但兩者是可以並存的，你不必為了讓女性顯得強大而讓男性顯得渺小和卑微，你也不必像這位女演員所建議的那樣完全消除他們。

Well, ok.

好的。

Ian, what about the controversy that this film has received online?

Ian，這部電影在網上引起的爭議如何？

It's clearly not coming from the young woman it's marketed at, in fact, it seems to be coming from a male demographic.

這顯然發出評論的不是年輕女性，事實上，是男性群體。

Well, yeah.

是啊。

Well, I think it's interesting that there's been so much backlash where this is concerned yet not really the same kind of backlash around the Barbie movie, which has certainly taken a different point of view.

嗯，我覺得有趣的是，這件事引起了這麼大的反響，但《芭比》卻沒有引起同樣的反響。

You know, most people who grew up with Barbie dolls when you open that package, it didn't immediately start speaking out against the patriarchy right.

要知道，大多數人都是在芭比娃娃的陪伴下長大的，當你打開包裝時，它並沒有立即開始反對父權體制。

Yet the Barbie movie we see today takes quite a feminist stance and a more inclusive stance that we've generally seen associated with the character.

然而，我們今天看到的《芭比》電影卻採取了相當女權主義的立場，與我們通常看到的芭比娃娃角色相比更具包容性。

So, you know, this is Disney's intellectual property.

所以，你知道，這是迪士尼的知識產權。

They can do what they want with it.

他們可以為所欲為。

People are gonna choose to spend their money on it or not.

人們會選擇把錢花在這上面還是不花。

It's not really a matter of moral judgment, you know, entertainment and art is created to be received and appreciated by an audience.

這其實不是道德評判的問題，你知道，娛樂和藝術是為了讓觀眾接受和欣賞而創作的。

And this is commercial art, this isn't to hang in a museum. It's gonna succeed or fail on that mirror.

這是商業藝術，不是掛在博物館裡的，成敗取決於那面鏡子。

And the Barbie movie you brought up, of course, a really fast-grossing billion-dollar movie for a female director, beating all expectations and all that controversy.

當然，你提到的《芭比》也是一部由女性導演執導的電影，很快就獲得了十億美元的票房，打破了所有的預期和爭議。

Tomi, I want to come back to you because you made a really good point there about strong men and strong women.

Tomi，我想回到你的話題上來，因為你說的關於強勢男人和強勢女人的觀點非常好。

Why do you have to crush one to have the other?

為什麼你必須粉碎一個才能擁有另一個？

And I was thinking about the James Bond franchise.

我想到 007 系列電影。

You know, there's often this mooted idea that women will suddenly be stepping in to play Bond.

人們經常醞釀著這樣一種想法：女性會突然進入龐德的世界並玩弄他。

We've obviously got a lot of female characters in that.

顯然，這系列電影有很多女性角色出演。

Now, do you think that's been to James Bond's detriment or do you think it's been a success the way they've modernized that?

你認為這對詹姆士·龐德不利，還是他們將其現代化的方式取得了成功？

I think that the numbers will speak for themselves on that.

我認為數字會說明一切。

And again, when you have a franchise that you have created around a James Bond character who is a strong male character, you don't need to go and then replace James Bond with a female.

再說一次，當你有了一個圍繞詹姆士·龐德角色打造的系列電影，而詹姆士·龐德是一個強大的男性角色時，你就不需要再用一個女性角色來取代詹姆士·龐德了。

You can have other strong females.

你還可以擁有其他女強人。

But what is this process now where it's like in order to be inclusive, you have to completely destroy storylines, completely destroy franchises.

但現在這個過程是什麼，似乎為了具有包容性，就必須完全破壞故事情節，完全破壞該系列電影。

I don't believe in that. I don't think the consumers believe in that either.

我不吃這一套。我認為消費者也不吃這一套。

You know, there is a way to modernize things; there's a way to bring in inclusivity and diversity,

有一種方法可以使事物現代化、有一種方法可以引入包容性和多樣性，

but you don't have to completely destroy the concept in order to do that.

但你不是需要完全破壞原有的概念才能做到。

And that's why, you know, going back to the Barbie movie, I didn't have an issue with the Barbie movie because it's what I expected.

這就是為什麼，回到《芭比》電影，我對這部電影沒有意見，因為這正是我所期望的。

I've always looked at Barbie as a female empowerment tool.

我一直認為芭比娃娃是女性賦權的工具。

I thought it was a women by women for women didn't see an issue with it.

我認為這是一個由女性為女性服務的項目，並不覺得有什麼問題。

It's when they go and they try to monkey with other things where it doesn't belong, that it just comes off as disingenuous,

當他們去干預其他不應該干涉的事情時，這就顯得虛偽無誠。

and the consumer, I don't think they're going to buy it.

而消費者，我不認為他們會買單。

I don't think they're going to watch it.

我覺得他們不會看的。

I don't think they're going to like it.

我覺得他們不會喜歡的。

No, they certainly watch Barbie.

不，他們當然會《芭比》電影。

Look, Tomi, Ian, thanks so much on that.

Tomi、Ian，非常感謝你們的觀點。