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  • So think about the last conversation you had where you thought, golly, that was such a

    所以,想想你上一次的談話,你覺得,天哪,那是一個如此的

  • great conversation.

    偉大的對話。

  • What did it feel like?

    那是什麼感覺?

  • Why did it seem like a really great conversation?

    為什麼這看起來是一次非常棒的談話?

  • And the chances are good that it was a kind of conversation that left you feeling smarter.

    而且很有可能是一種讓你感覺更聰明的對話。

  • It was the kind of conversation where you felt like you discovered something new, that

    那是一種你覺得自己發現了新東西的談話,那是一種

  • it left you deeply curious about something else.

    它讓你對其他事物產生了深深的好奇心。

  • It might have been a conversation that challenged you in all the right ways.

    這可能是一次以所有正確方式挑戰你的談話。

  • That's a truly great conversation.

    這是一個真正偉大的對話。

  • It's one where we genuinely learn something or we come to a deeper understanding about

    在這個過程中,我們真正學到了一些東西,或者說我們更深入地瞭解了一些東西。

  • why someone else holds a particular point of view.

    為什麼別人會持有一個特定的觀點。

  • Right?

    對嗎?

  • That deeper understanding and that learning is what we're after with great conversations.

    這種更深入的理解和學習是我們在偉大的對話中所追求的。

  • And so one of the things I'm interested in is what are the design principles of a great

    是以,我感興趣的一件事是,一個偉大的設計原則是什麼?

  • conversation.

    談話。

  • What are the essential elements that make a conversation truly a great conversation?

    使對話真正成為一個偉大的對話的基本要素是什麼?

  • And humility would be one basic design principle that we should all start from.

    而謙遜將是一個基本的設計原則,我們都應該從這裡開始。

  • Now with humility, I don't just mean deference to expertise, right, that you are so much

    現在的謙卑,我不只是指對專業知識的尊重,對吧,你是如此的

  • smarter at that thing so I'm going to have humility with respect to you on that thing

    在那件事上我很聰明,所以在那件事上我要對你保持謙卑的態度。

  • because you know more about it than I do.

    因為你比我更瞭解它。

  • Now maybe that's true, right?

    現在也許這是真的,對嗎?

  • But that's not the kind of humility I'm talking about, because that's a sort of humility that

    但這不是我說的那種謙遜,因為那是一種謙遜,即

  • could come to an end, right?

    可能會走到盡頭,對嗎?

  • I could learn as much about that particular topic, and therefore with that kind of thinking

    我可以學到儘可能多的關於這個特定主題的知識,是以,在這種思維下

  • I would say I can set aside my humility.

    我想說,我可以把我的謙遜放在一邊。

  • The kind of humility I'm talking about is the kind that you can't set aside.

    我說的那種謙卑是你不能擱置的那種。

  • Because the world is an incredibly complicated place.

    因為這個世界是一個令人難以置信的複雜的地方。

  • None of us can ever have the full lock on truth.

    我們中沒有人能夠完全鎖定真理。

  • We can only see the world from a particular vantage point.

    我們只能從一個特定的有利位置看世界。

  • And that means that our knowledge is going to have special insight because of our vantage

    這意味著我們的知識將具有特殊的洞察力,因為我們的優勢在於

  • point, but it's also going to be limited because of our vantage point.

    但由於我們的有利位置,它也將是有限的。

  • And so that limited knowledge that we can have about the world means that we must enter

    是以,我們對世界能夠擁有的有限知識意味著我們必須進入

  • into any conversation with a deep sense of humility, because I need you to help me fill

    帶著深深的謙卑感進入任何談話,因為我需要你來幫助我填補

  • in my knowledge gaps.

    在我的知識差距中。

  • Right?

    對嗎?

  • And you need me.

    而你需要我。

  • And that's the cool thing about conversation, is that it is mutual in the sense that both

    這就是對話的好處,它是相互的,因為雙方都有機會。

  • of us look at the same world from different vantage points, and that means that we each

    我們從不同的視點看同一個世界,這意味著我們每個人都是

  • have something to offer the other.

    有一些東西可以提供給對方。

  • And that's true whether one person is the expert or not.

    無論一個人是否是專家,這都是事實。

  • Right?

    對嗎?

  • We have the opportunity to gain in our knowledge, to learn from anyone.

    我們有機會獲得知識,向任何人學習。

  • With this way of thinking about humility, anyone can be your teacher, whether it's your

    有了這種謙遜的思維方式,任何人都可以成為你的老師,無論是你的

  • professor, or whether it's an elementary school student who's lived on the planet in different

    教授,或者是一個在地球上生活過的小學生,他們在不同的環境中生活過。

  • circumstances than you lived on the planet.

    比你住在這個星球上的情況。

  • That elementary school student can teach you something that you can only get by talking

    那個小學生可以教你一些你只能通過交談獲得的東西

  • with them.

    與他們。

  • That's that deeper level of humility.

    這就是那種更深層次的謙卑。

  • Some of the other key design elements of a great conversation would be, for example,

    例如,一個偉大的對話的其他一些關鍵設計元素將是:、

  • critical thinking and sympathetic listening.

    批判性思維和富有同情心的傾聽。

  • There's a lot that gets said about critical thinking; it's that ability and eagerness

    有很多關於批判性思維的說法;它是一種能力和渴望。

  • to identify gaps in logic or shortfalls in evidence-based argumentation.

    以確定邏輯上的差距或基於證據的論證的不足之處。

  • It is the cornerstone of what it means to have a liberal education, is to engage in

    它是擁有通識教育的意義的基石,是從事

  • that kind of critical thinking.

    這種批判性思維。

  • Now less often discussed and surely less often celebrated is what I call sympathetic listening.

    現在較少討論,當然也較少慶祝的是我所說的同情性傾聽。

  • And I use the word sympathetic in the way that Adam Smith used the word sympathetic,

    而我使用同情這個詞的方式是亞當-斯密使用同情這個詞的方式、

  • which is: Am I really understanding from that other person's point of view?

    這就是:我是否真的從對方的角度來理解?

  • That commitment to understanding the argument from the other person's perspective.

    這種從對方的角度理解爭論的承諾。

  • Now, what sympathy in this case means is not that I feel what they feel.

    現在,在這種情況下,同情的意思不是說我對他們的感受感同身受。

  • It's that I'm willing to set aside, even if it's just temporarily, that hunt for the slightest

    是我願意放下,哪怕只是暫時放下,為最微小的獵物。

  • misstep in logic or reasoning.

    在邏輯或推理方面的失誤。

  • Setting that aside for a moment so that I can listen really carefully to what my conversation

    暫時把這個問題放在一邊,以便我能夠真正仔細地聽一聽我的談話內容。

  • partner is saying, so I can understand from their perspective what their intellectual

    夥伴在說什麼,所以我可以從他們的角度理解他們的智力

  • project is or why it is that they are looking at the same world I'm looking at but coming

    項目是什麼,或者為什麼他們在看我所看的同一個世界,但卻要來

  • to a very, very different conclusion.

    到一個非常、非常不同的結論。

  • I should assume that that person that I'm having that conversation with is intelligent

    我應該假定與我談話的人是聰明的。

  • and is exercising reason, so when I enter into the conversational space with that good

    鍛鍊的原因,所以當我進入對話空間,與那個好的

  • faith that they're exercising reason, then what that means is that I need to set aside

    他們在行使理性的信念,那麼這就意味著我需要擱置

  • for a moment my hunt for the slightest misstep in logic so that I can really hear why it

    在這一時刻,我正在尋找邏輯上最微小的失誤,以便我能夠真正聽到它的原因。

  • is that this smart person came to a different conclusion than I came to.

    是這個聰明人得出了與我不同的結論。

So think about the last conversation you had where you thought, golly, that was such a

所以,想想你上一次的談話,你覺得,天哪,那是一個如此的

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