I'm J.R. Whalen for the "Wall Street Journal".

我是《華爾街日報》的 J.R. Whalen。

After introducing yourself to someone, it's pretty common to ask,

在向某人介紹自己後，我們常常會問對方：

"So, what do you do?"

「你是做什麼工作的？」

But what if asking someone about their job wasn't the second question you'd ask?

但如果問到對方工作並不是你提出的第二個問題會怎麼樣呢？

Or the third or the fourth?

也不是第三或第四個呢？

Would you know what to say next?

你會知道接下來該說什麼嗎？

WSJ "Work and Life" columnist Rachel Feintzeig explored that question, and she joins me now.

WSJ《工作與生活》專欄作家 Rachel Feintzeig 探討了這個問題，她現在加入我的節目。

Hey, Rachel, thanks for being here.

嗨，Rachel，謝謝妳的蒞臨。

Thanks so much for having me; I'll refrain from asking you the question, J.R.

非常感謝你邀請我，我就不問你那個問題了，J.R.。

I won't tell you what I do, but it has to do with, sort of like, hosting things with a microphone.

我不會告訴你我是做什麼的，但它跟用麥克風主持有關。

I'm getting some context clues here.

我獲得一些背景線索了。

So, you know, being asked "what do you do" seems like a pretty benign question.

所以被問「你是做什麼的？」看上去是個無害的問題。

But when did it become taboo to ask someone right off the bat?

但劈頭就問工作從什麼時候開始成了禁忌呢？

I don't think it is taboo; I think it's still a part of us.

我不認為這是禁忌，我認為工作還是我們的一部分。

One person I talked to said it's like asking about the weather.

有個跟我談過的人說，這就像問天氣一樣。

But I think there has been this sense, especially over the last couple of years,

但我認為有種感覺，特別是在過去這幾年，

that people don't want to just be defined by what they do, that they want to have a bigger life.

人們不想只被工作定義，他們想擁有更廣闊的生活。

And I think going right into it can, kind of, be jarring for some folks in this moment.

而我認為在這種時候，直接進入此話題對某些人來說可能是種刺激。

But in this era of overworking and struggling to find a work-life balance,

但在這個過勞，大家都努力尋找工作與生活平衡的時代，

don't many people feel their job is part of what defines them?

不是很多人都覺得工作是定義他們的一部分嗎？

Yeah, I talked to people who found that their⏤all their social media feeds had been inundated with work,

沒錯，我和那些發現自己所有社交媒體貼文都牽扯工作的人談過，

that they were kind of itching to have people ask them that question just so they could, kind of, put it out there.

他們渴望人們問他們工作相關問題，這樣他們就可以拿出來炫耀。

I think it can become this, kind of, low-level status competition as another person described it to me.

我認為描述自己的經歷很可能成為一種較勁地位的手段。

So, yes, I think this is something that we're always, kind of, battling with, even as we, maybe, try to change our relationship to work.

所以，對，我認為這是大家一直在努力解決的問題，即使人們也許正試圖改變自己與工作的關係。

Oh, so, something like, "Oh, you're a manager? Well, I'm a director."

所以是類似，「哦，你是經理？嗯，我是總監。」

Yeah, a source for this said to me, like, he feels like people are always, kind of, low-level sizing each other up,

是的，我的消息來源跟我說，他覺得人們總是在暗中較量，

maybe trying to figure out who makes more money than the other person.

也許是想弄清誰賺得比較多。

So, there's a whole undercurrent going on?

所以其實對話之下暗潮洶湧？

Yeah, yeah.

對，沒錯。

And when we swap our job titles, we're really, like, trying to say something about how busy we are, how important we are, how valuable we are.

換工作頭銜時，我們總是說著自己有多忙、有多重要、多有價值。

You know, Rachel, a few recessions ago, I was out of work for a stretch of time,

你知道嗎，Rachel，前陣子經濟衰退時，我有段時間沒工作，

and I remember cringing when somebody would ask what I did for work, 'cause I was out of work.

我記得有人問我做什麼工作時，我都會覺得難堪，因為我沒有工作。

But when I got a job, I couldn't wait for someone to ask.

但當我找到工作時，我就等不及別人來問了。

So, it's still OK to ask, right?

所以問一下還是可以的，對嗎？

Yeah, it's definitely still OK to ask.

當然，問一下肯定是可以的。

I think the idea behind the column was just: What do we gain if maybe we don't ask right away?

我覺得這個專欄背後的意義在於，如果不馬上問工作，能有什麼影響？

What are other ways that we can, kind of, connect with and relate to people?

還有什麼方式可以增加與人的聯繫？

And, if you happen to be someone who doesn't want to lead with your professional self, how can you field that question?

而如果你碰巧是不想用自己專業開啟話題的人，能怎麼回答這個問題？

Because, inevitably, people are gonna keep asking it.

因為無可避免的，人們會繼續問這個問題。

I guess if you're a covert CIA operative, maybe you want to, sort of like, bury that down to the conversation.

如果你是中情局臥底特工，也許你不會想談工作。

Yeah, and, yet, those are the people we want to talk to about their jobs, right?

沒錯，但這些通常才是人們想談的工作，不是嗎？

That sounds way more fun than, like, the accountant.

聽起來比會計有趣多了。

That's true.

這倒是真的。

But I guess, you know, you can't stop people from asking the question.

但我想，你無法阻止人們問這個問題，

But is there a creative way to answer it or maybe work around the question?

但有沒有什麼創新方法可以回答或繞過這個問題？

Yeah, definitely; I talked to one guy who said he kind of makes a joke out of it.

當然有。有個人和我談過的人說，他說會開個玩笑。

People will ask him what he does, and he'll say that he makes the little mini umbrellas that go in drinks,

人們會問他是做什麼的，他會說他是做飲料上迷你雨傘的，

and they'll be like, "Really?" and he'll be like, "No, not really."

然後對方會說：「真的嗎？」他就會說：「不是，假的。」

But it just kind of⏤honestly, like, a joke can just, kind of, lighten the moment, I think,

但說實話，我覺得玩笑可以讓氣氛輕鬆一點，

and kind of disrupt those wrote patterns of conversations, those scripts that we all devolve into.

可以打亂既定的對話模式，那些我們都會陷入的腳本。

You can also just, kind of, lead with your hobbies, your family, other parts of your life,

你也可以用愛好、家庭、生活中的其它部分來引導話題，

and then add, as a kind of last final beat, an afterthought almost, "in my day job I... or the way I make a living is..."

然後將工作話題作為一種最後的點綴，像是「我的日常工作中……」或「我是靠……維生」。

And you're kind of throwing it in there at the end and taking some of the focus off of that.

將它放在最後，轉移焦點。

And then, one last tip is to talk about what industry you're in, what you actually do,

最後一個建議是可以談你所在的產業、實際工作內容，

but not focus as much on your title or the company you work for.

但不要太著重於頭銜或公司。

And the idea there is that that might not be forever.

這背後的原因是，頭銜或公司可能會變。

And, so, that was a tip that I got from someone who had been laid off, J.R.,

J.R.，這是我從一個被解僱的人那裡得到的小建議。

who had actually been fired and found that his identity was pretty tangled up in the circle of work friends that he had,

他被解僱後才發現，自己的自我認同與工作圈緊緊糾纏在一起，

the prestige of his title, being in management, this brand name that he was working for, and those are the things that can kind of go away.

他的朋友、頭銜聲望、管理階層的身份、他前公司的品牌，這些都可能會消失。

But maybe what you're actually doing⏤your profession, the field that you're in⏤that might be something that people might want to focus on.

但也許，你實際上在做什麼、你的專業、你身處的領域，這些可能是人們會想關注的。

Is there some sort of a stigma associated with asking someone about their job?

詢問別人的工作是否算是有某種惡名？

I don't think so.

我不這麼認為。

I think it's still a really commonplace question.

我認為這仍然是個很尋常的問題。

I think there is just a growing sense from a lot of people and I've heard from tons of people since the story was written

我認為只是很多人意識越來越強，自從寫完這個故事後，我聽到很多人說，

about people who don't want to be judged by their job anymore.

他們不想再被工作定義。

But, no, I still think it's a socially acceptable thing to ask.

但沒有，我仍然認為這是一個社會上可以接受的問題。

I think the one awkward moment that people might fall into is if someone has been laid off, especially in this economy,

一個人們可能陷入的尷尬情況是，如果有人被解僱，特別是在這種經濟形勢下，

and that can obviously be, maybe, a hurtful thing to have kind of pushed up to the surface.

這種事被放到檯面上說顯然很傷人。

I guess "I'm in between jobs" is the standard answer.

我想「我在待業中」是標準答案。

Yeah, I mean, "in between jobs" or even, someone told me to focus a little more positively, you know,

對，可以說我在待業中，甚至有人跟我說可以講得更積極一點，

"I'm looking for my next opportunity" and launching in there to make that connection.

像是，「我正在尋找下個機會」，並從那開始建立聯繫。

But let's say you're at a party and you meet people haven't met before,

但假設你在一個聚會上，都是新認識的人，

wouldn't not asking about their job, at least during the introduction process, be a hard habit to break?

在介紹過程中問工作不是很難改掉的習慣嗎？

I think it is a hard habit to break.

這是很難打破的習慣沒錯。

I think we're all totally used to this.

我想我們都已經完全習慣這點了。

But I also think it is possible to shift.

但我也認為這是可轉變的。

I talked to someone who felt like her job had become her entire personality,

我和一個人談過，她覺得她的工作已完全成為她的人格了。

who would just sit there, hoping that people would ask her what she did for a living.

她會坐在那，希望人們問她做什麼工作。

It made her feel better about herself.

這會讓她對自己感覺好一點。

She said she kind of worried that people, before she said what she did, people would kind of be thinking, like, "Who's this idiot?"

她說她有點擔心，在講出自己的工作前，人們會想「這白痴是誰啊？」

and throwing her title out there would kind of be this thing that would make her seem like a valuable person.

而丟出她的頭銜會讓她看起來像個有價值的人，

But she was able to shift, and now she asks people how they fill their time and what brings them joy.

但她改了，現在她會問對方怎麼打發時間的，還有什麼能帶給他們快樂。

It might seem a little weird at first, but I think it's possible to shift the conversation.

一開始可能會有點怪怪的，但我認為改變話題走向是做得到的。

There's more to life than just work.

人生不僅只是工作。

Exactly; we're more than our jobs.

正是如此。我們遠不只是我們的工作。

All right, that's Wall Street Journal "Work and Life" columnist Rachel Feintzeig.

以上是《華爾街日報》的《工作與生活》專欄作家 Rachel Feintzeig 的分享。

Rachel, thanks so much for being with us.

Rachel，非常感謝你出演節目。

Thanks so much for having me.

很感謝你的邀請。

And that's your money briefing.

今天的資金簡報就到這。

I'm J.R. Whalen for the Wall Street Journal.

我是《華爾街日報》的J.R. Whalen。